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I don't understand how you're supposed to play Sonic games.

Lumination

'enry 'ollins
I've never really been able to get into 2D Sonic because it's level design and gameplay seem to be pulling in two different directions. The levels are huge and complex and sprawling, but trying to move precisely with Sonic is hard - he feels sluggish when you're at "base speed."

Usually I just end up zooming through the levels, which is what the gameplay seems to suggest, butdon't feel like I'm accomplishing anything. I haven't faced and surmounted any challenges, I've just sort of blindly bounced along to the end. If you fail on one path, you just end up on another, completely unrelated one.

They've extremely unorthodox platformers. It's interesting how they were able to build such a huge franchise out of them.
Consider it a speedrunning game. Reaching the end of the level is pretty much a given. But if you did it 30s faster this time, you should feel good about it. If you are doing a full run and managed to collect all the whatevers and STILL beat your past "skip everything" run, that should feel great.
 

Brandon F

Well congratulations! You got yourself caught!
Thanks OP. Well worded and shouldn't upset too many people. I don't get it either. It's a platformer but should I just go fast? I don't understand if there is any point in exploring or not.

I've never really been able to get into 2D Sonic because it's level design and gameplay seem to be pulling in two different directions. The levels are huge and complex and sprawling, but trying to move precisely with Sonic is hard - he feels sluggish when you're at "base speed."

Usually I just end up zooming through the levels, which is what the gameplay seems to suggest, butdon't feel like I'm accomplishing anything. I haven't faced and surmounted any challenges, I've just sort of blindly bounced along to the end. If you fail on one path, you just end up on another, completely unrelated one.

They've extremely unorthodox platformers. It's interesting how they were able to build such a huge franchise out of them.

Yeah i can tell when i was a kid i was wonfused to. A game needs a clear goal and a coherent level deisgn in regard. Sonic always feels like you're not sure what should be the way to do the levels.

Thank you op for putting to words what I could not. I don't get Sonic games either. The "schtick," for lack of a better word, is the speed. Look how fast you can go compared to boring old jumpy Mario. Zoom zoom zoom. Oh wait, but if you go too fast for too long and start having too much fun you'll run into spikes and lose everything you've collected. Ha-ha you can't go fast, you have to be slow and methodical after all.

Until you get to the next point where you get to go blazing fast again only to fall into a lava pit or fly into an enemy. The game tells you that you can go super excitingly fast, but then punishes you for doing just that.

Don't get it.

I have to say that I empathize with the OP. Years of BLAST PROCESSING ads conditioned me to believe that Sonic is designed to be played at top speed. And it's *awful* like that.

I'm going to get Sonic Mania when it's released on PC. I hope to finally figure out why people love the Genesis games so much.

I guess after growing up with Mario and then going back to Sonic as an adult, I'm really in the same boat. I just don't understand what you're actually even supposed to do in these games. It feels like they made it to promote speed and inertia, but if you only play that way it feels REALLY boring. If you play it kind of like a MARIO game, with speed boosts from time to time, it feels like an okay "platformer."

I think I just missed the boat on this franchise. I'm glad to hear people that are into finally got a game they can love to love.

Speed is beneficial for maintaining momentum often for the 'upper routes', as in staying as close to the top of the screen throughout the stage. That route most often features the greatest rewards and the quickest path to the goal(sometimes most laden with secrets along the way as well).

The reason you get frustrated with spikes and pits and other brickwall obstacles is that the lower routes usually act as a form of punishment. They are designed to often be a bit slower, force the player to pause and consider ways to reach higher ground again to get back to the loop-de-loops and ramps and coin staches, etc...

The games don't spell it out really, so I understand it can be alarming and confounding for players to think "push right, go fast, WTF not working!!??" but there is skill in trying to balance speed and keep on that chosen route. The satisfaction and thrills are seeped in doing so. Give it a try next play.
 

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Just go fast and beat the levels.

Some Sonic games are worse than others at punishing the gotta go fast at least the first time through with spikes you didn't know we're coming, but is what it is.
 

Danthrax

Batteries the CRISIS!
I always thought the goal was to get the end of the level before the time ran out. Everything else was just side quests.

that's basically it in a nutshell

it's a platformer. you want to reach the goal at the end of every level and beat the game. how you do that is up to you.

generally, you need a mixture of going fast with taking it slow to navigate all the obstacles in each level.
 
Thank you op for putting to words what I could not. I don't get Sonic games either. The "schtick," for lack of a better word, is the speed. Look how fast you can go compared to boring old jumpy Mario. Zoom zoom zoom. Oh wait, but if you go too fast for too long and start having too much fun you'll run into spikes and lose everything you've collected. Ha-ha you can't go fast, you have to be slow and methodical after all.

Until you get to the next point where you get to go blazing fast again only to fall into a lava pit or fly into an enemy. The game tells you that you can go super excitingly fast, but then punishes you for doing just that.

Don't get it.

Never played a racing sim before?

The idea is for you to go fast (or at least faster than your opponents) but eventually you have to hit the brakes before the corner.
 

Nepenthe

Member
Speed is a tool to attack and move. It's not the "point" of the classic games.

Understand this simple rule and magically everything clicks into place.
 
Speed is beneficial for maintaining momentum often for the 'upper routes', as in staying as close to the top of the screen throughout the stage. That route most often features the greatest rewards and the quickest path to the goal(sometimes most laden with secrets along the way as well).

The reason you get frustrated with spikes and pits and other brickwall obstacles is that the lower routes usually act as a form of punishment. They are designed to often be a bit slower, force the player to pause and consider ways to reach higher ground again to get back to the loop-de-loops and ramps and coin staches, etc...

The games don't spell it out really, so I understand it can be alarming and confounding for players to think "push right, go fast, WTF not working!!??" but there is skill in trying to balance speed and keep on that chosen route. The satisfaction and thrills are seeped in doing so. Give it a try next play.
Ahh so mainly staying up top is beneficial
 
Look at getting through the level at maximum speed as being the speed run of the level. First you have to beat it normally to understand it, and then you can work on improving your timing and controls to get better at the level.

Focusing on speed from the get go is what makes the games feel confusing. It's completely understandable though as that's all you hear about Sonic. The truth is speed is the reward for knowing the level, and why progressive playthroughs feel so good.
 

mindatlarge

Member
Playing a Sonic game for the first couple times, it's just exploring and using general platforming skills. As you get more in tune with the levels through various playthroughs, you can then challenge yourself to go faster while still collecting things that will come in handy through your journey. At least how I have always played these games.

The 2D Sonic games have always had a good replayability factor to them and offer freedom to play as you wish.
 
. The focus of the game seems to be, at least judging by advertisements and such, to complete a level as fast as humanly possible.
Well for your benefit, that's just not true at all. The new sonic games may be like this but it certainly isn't true of the classic games, or Mania. Some people seem to think all you do in Sonic is just run to the right really fast, when the reality is that there is plenty of platforming to do, and usually speed is used for building and maintaining momentum to help you get around. There are real physics at play here.
 

Nepenthe

Member
Never played a racing sim before?

The idea is for you to go fast (or at least faster than your opponents) but eventually you have to hit the brakes before the corner.

I should never have to slow down in a Sonic game.

I should never have to brake in a racing game.

I should never have to reload in a shooting game.

I should never have to block in a fighting game.
 

RagnarokX

Member
All of the arrogant, patronizing shitposting is really helpful guys, thanks.

This series' entire identity revolves around speed. The focus of the game seems to be, at least judging by advertisements and such, to complete a level as fast as humanly possible. Sonic's all about that speed and Mario is slow and old, right? So when the game's entire focus is supposedly on speed, it seems counterintuitive to have vast areas that are just ripe for exploration and secret rewards that would benefit the gameplayer. These areas are just completely skipped if you play the game that way it's advertised. It seems to me that you'd miss out on literally the majority of the game if you just played it for speed.

I'm in my 30s by the way and I've been an avid game player for about 27 years.



This poster said it well, too.
This is like complaining that you tried to play Mario Kart 8 at 200cc going full speed right off the bat without learning the courses and stating that Mario Kart sucks. Or complaining that you tried to speedrun literally ANY game and failed because you didn't learn the game first.

You can go fast in a first run but you should pay attention to the level design and know the difference between a fast section and a slow section. When the game throws ramps at you you can press down to roll into a ball and be confident that you will make it to the end of the ride unscathed. When there are enemies and jumps everywhere you shouldn't rush ahead like an idiot. You can only speed through the whole game once you have the necessary familiarity like any other game.
 
The racing game analogies fall down because you aren't racing any opponents. It would be like Outrun where you had ten minutes to make the checkpoint. You drive super carefully and still do it with 8 minutes to spare, of course you are going to wonder what you are missing.

It's dissonant game design, but that doesn't mean it's bad, quite the opposite. It's just a little confounding.
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
All of the arrogant, patronizing shitposting is really helpful guys, thanks.

This series' entire identity revolves around speed. The focus of the game seems to be, at least judging by advertisements and such, to complete a level as fast as humanly possible. Sonic's all about that speed and Mario is slow and old, right? So when the game's entire focus is supposedly on speed, it seems counterintuitive to have vast areas that are just ripe for exploration and secret rewards that would benefit the gameplayer. These areas are just completely skipped if you play the game that way it's advertised. It seems to me that you'd miss out on literally the majority of the game if you just played it for speed.

I'm in my 30s by the way and I've been an avid game player for about 27 years.

Why are you caring about the advertising? If the game itself encourages exploration then explore.

These games are also short as hell by modern standards. We replayed these games over and over again. That's also a part of the design. You learn the levels the first few times you play them. As you get better and memorize layouts you can go faster.
 

mrchad

Member
In terms of completing the game, your goal should be to collect and retain as many rings as possible by the time you get to the end of the stage. A minimum number of rings will cause the "big ring" to appear, allowing you access the special stages. Completing all the special stages allows you to see the "true ending."

I think it's a fair criticism that the emphasis on speed undermines the goal of ring collection. Still a fan of Sonic games though.
 
The classic Sonic games do a pretty good job of signposting when it's safe to go fast and when it's probably a better idea to take it slow. These games have an emphasis on speed, but speed is not the only thing you should be focusing on.
 

sanstesy

Member
Because the movement when you are not boosting feels like shit in 2D Sonic games whichs leads you to think you have to play it with boost gameplay only but Sonic fans will tell you that's apparently not the case. You have the choice to play with the shitty floaty non-boost movement or boost into walls/obstacles every second!

There is really nothing to get contrary to the backlash to the backlash of Sonic games. A lot of people like them and a lot of people don't.
 

Acerac

Banned
then how do you reconcile the second level in the very first Sonic game? maybe you've reduced the series to something it actually isn't?
The ads in the 90s said Sonic was all about speed though. How could that not apply now?
 

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Never played a racing sim before?

The idea is for you to go fast (or at least faster than your opponents) but eventually you have to hit the brakes before the corner.

Racing games give you guide posts on what to do. You get a track overview before you start as we as an in game map.

Sonic doesn't give you this, and your field of view isn't huge ergo you end up hitting spikes and shit you didn't know were there cause the player has no reason to know at least on the first play through.

Mario does this too, but you never are going too fast, and you can stop on a dime. Plus the levels are better designed with regards to pits and spikes.
 
Jeez I'll never get some of these replies. Just play it how you like and don't focus on the "gotta go fast" bs. That's a marketing gimmick. Sonic is about momentum, not speed.
 

RowdyReverb

Member
I like to explore the stages thoroughly and try and find all the secret paths. Sometimes it's necessary to use speeds and momentum as a tool to get to those paths though
Later down the road, I'll play time trials and see how quickly I can beat the stage if I just burn through it.
 
Here’s a good example: I just played the second level of Sonic Mania. I blasted through it super fast, and it was a blast. And now I want to play it again, but going more slowly, exploring the different areas. And later I’ll want to find even faster, better routes through it. For me, it’s not about “the best way to play”, it’s about playing all of the ways :) For me, I never was into “collect all the rings”, but I do try to get enough rings to unlock bonus stages. But that’s another way to play.

Note that the general statement that Sonic games are all about speed, is a myth, a mis-remembering, and one of the reasons many recent Sonic games haven’t been great, the attempt to make them all about speed. Sonic games always had slow levels and slow explore-y routes, right from the beginning.
 

Stat Flow

He gonna cry in the car
This thread is so weird.

Like...what? Play it how you want to, just like any game you'll learn how it works when you play it. If you aren't enjoying yourself, stop. If you are, keep going and you'll understand more that will make you either like it more or stop liking it.

What you DO get with mania is tight controls, great physics, awesome level variety and platforming, a great soundtrack, etc. As far as how you play it, just do it.

Discovery is a part of gaming.
 

RagnarokX

Member
The racing game analogies fall down because you aren't racing any opponents. It would be like Outrun where you had ten minutes to make the checkpoint. You drive super carefully and still do it with 8 minutes to spare, of course you are going to wonder what you are missing.

It's dissonant game design, but that doesn't mean it's bad, quite the opposite. It's just a little confounding.

The "go fast" shtick is just marketing meant to throw shade at Mario.

Sonic doesn't really emphasize speed constantly with its gameplay and level design. Going fast is just a possible playstyle no different from speedrunning any other game.

If you try to get a fast time in a racing game by going full speed without using your brakes on a course without learning the course first you're gonna crash.
 

Nepenthe

Member
Because the movement when you are not boosting feels like shit in 2D Sonic games whichs leads you to think you have to play it with boost gameplay only but Sonic fans will tell you that's apparently not the case. You have the choice to play with the shitty floaty non-boost movement or boost into walls/obstacles every second!

There is really nothing to get contrary to the backlash to the backlash of Sonic games. A lot of people like them and a lot of people don't.

Boosting in classic Sonic games?....

What the fuck are you talking about?
 

jph139

Member
The reason you get frustrated with spikes and pits and other brickwall obstacles is that the lower routes usually act as a form of punishment. They are designed to often be a bit slower, force the player to pause and consider ways to reach higher ground again to get back to the loop-de-loops and ramps and coin staches, etc...

I guess this is the part that never really clicked. Most games, and in particular most platformers, the punishment is clearly illustrated. "You fucked up, now you're dead, try again." With Sonic? "You fucked up, now play a slightly shittier version of the game for a little while."

I just assumed that all paths were equally valid options.
 

Mexen

Member
Get all the rings in the fastest time while setting the brainwashed free. Go back, repeat because you missed an alternative route or a shortcut.
 
The only goal is to go over the loop in 1991 and be like: Dammmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
 
I understand some of the struggle, but I'm old enough to realize you can play these and almost any game however you want.

I'm planning to pick it up although I haven't played a Sonic game in years. My approach will be to alternate between taking my time (within reason, I think there's a timer) and running through quickly to pick up as many rings as a possible for extra lives. The extras (shields, shoes, etc.) you find can only help you in the end.

Always try to keep some rings on you for protection. The ultimate goal is pretty simple: beat the level bosses and then the end boss, how you get there is up to you.
 
The "go fast" shtick is just marketing meant to throw shade at Mario.

Sonic doesn't really emphasize speed constantly with its gameplay and level design. Going fast is just a possible playstyle no different from speedrunning any other game.

If you try to get a fast time in a racing game by going full speed without using your brakes on a course without learning the course first you're gonna crash.

Indeed. Sonic's design emphasises momentum based platforming, not speed.
 

Griss

Member
I mean, Eurogamer gave the game 'Essential' (their top award) and even their review states the obvious - that the game design works against itself. This has long been known.

Eurogamer said:
It's intriguing to revisit an experience as violently, exhilaratingly unfair as 16-bit Sonic today. One design concept that commands a lot of regard at present is "flow" - briefly, that supposedly Zen-like state of heightened appreciation when a game is just challenging enough to keep you hooked, but not so challenging that you lose patience. I can't imagine anything further away from that than the average 2D Sonic level (on your first attempt, at least), thanks to the infuriating way Sonic works against itself.

The game's exquisite pinball handling and smooth-scrolling raster graphics are an incentive to let go, to revel in the sense of velocity, but to tumble down even the gentlest rise is to risk being sucked into a series of loops, ramps, warp tubes and bumper pads - power-ups fleetingly, tantalisingly visible in alcoves as terrain traps loom out of screen-right. For every second you'll spend plunging through the infrastructure you'll spend another jumping frantically to scoop up dropped rings, following a head-on collision with a malevolent drone. It's certainly an acquired taste, next to the stately unfolding of the average Mario game.

What also doesn't help Sonic is that it should be about learning the level layouts to find the shortest, quickest path, but the camera is so zoomed in and the textures in a zone so uniform that it can often be absolutely impossible to tell exactly where you are in a level or how it syncs up to other parts of the level. I think we've all had that experience where we looked at a Sonic 3 map online and said, "Holy shit, THAT'S how it's laid out?"

But ultimately the experience of just zooming through some obstacles with bright pop visuals to the sound of fantastic music is pretty fun in and of itself, which is why people like it.
 
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