The only SE game I'm buying next Holiday are FFXV and DQ11 (assuming the PS4 version makes 2016), especially since SE will charge full price.
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I hope CD gets another shot at Tomb Raider.
- Thread starter Croatoan
- Start date
The only SE game I'm buying next Holiday are FFXV and DQ11 (assuming the PS4 version makes 2016), especially since SE will charge full price.
Xbox owners didn't buy ROTR because of Fallout, PS4 owners probably aren't going to rush out and buy it because of Mass Effect or whatever other big title is coming out around that time.
Ghost Slayer
Member
Why would I buy a late port when I can get Mass Effect or Horizon?
SE made the decision to take Microsoft's money upfront. They're not getting mine a year + day 1 later.
I don't think SE should be banking on PC/PS4 players to 'save' this game.
All the air has already been sucked out of the room. The absolute best shot this game could have had was to launch in a non crowded timeframe on PS4/XB1/PC with no last gen versions.
But instead, they didn't do that, and intentionally destroyed any real sales expectations going forward.
Like..who do you blame for that? Is SE really going to give CD shit and throw them under the bus when SE themselves were the one that inked the deal?
All the air has already been sucked out of the room. The absolute best shot this game could have had was to launch in a non crowded timeframe on PS4/XB1/PC with no last gen versions.
But instead, they didn't do that, and intentionally destroyed any real sales expectations going forward.
Like..who do you blame for that? Is SE really going to give CD shit and throw them under the bus when SE themselves were the one that inked the deal?
Head.spawn
Junior Member
I thought people were totally okay with getting late ports? That's what those indie threads leaned towards for the most part.
The game will still be good when it launches on other platforms and I'm sure it will sell well when it's much cheaper, like the previous game.
Gherid__lacksGPS
Banned
Lara is more mature, real, gritty:
Far, far from it. There's nothing more real about a T-Rex than demon samurai. There's nothing mature about a shitty QTE rape sequence to establish her first kill of thousands. Nothing gritty about sacrificing people trying to help you, or beimg subjected to a bunch of QTE torture porn.
Lara used to be this amazing, self aware, bad ass bitch with huge tits and a spelunking complex. She didn't take shit from anybody, yet was still human.. Now shes some emo, damaged little girl, and we are supposed to believe she's strong and edgey? GTFO. The irony, as some have stated, is that OG TR wasnt character driven, but exploration. Yet, OG lara oozes character and charisma. Why is that?......
A survival game:
The player actively participated in her adventure. Lara and the player shared failure, and success. Philosophically, TR was always a "survival" game. It may not have had the fancy crafting systems or open world associated with survival games today, but; "what is at the core of survival?" Managing limited resources, understanding your environment, weighing risk versus reward and actually having consequences to those risks.
The environmemt was the antagonist, not hordes of souless baddies to mow down. Your medi packs were cherrished because they were scarce and each step, each leap, had potential conseqeunces. You weren't handed a glowing route, you needed to fimd it for yoirself. Not through QTE, context based animation or auto grabs. YOU had to do the work. YOU had to execute.
It never will be Tomb Raider. TR13/15 isnt built for that player. From a technical perspective, the reboot has been very tight and clean. But it will never don a true sense of survival and connection to Lara when they're forced into failure. Not knowing anything, but needing to figure out something. Its much easier to go pew pew pew with rehashed, established mechanocs, then put a skin on it with some marketing.
And yes I agree about Horizon. When I first saw the trailer I immediately thought "THATS tomb raider and lara for this era." The context of story and aesthetic is different, but philosophically it had a very similar vibe to me.
Far, far from it. There's nothing more real about a T-Rex than demon samurai. There's nothing mature about a shitty QTE rape sequence to establish her first kill of thousands. Nothing gritty about sacrificing people trying to help you, or beimg subjected to a bunch of QTE torture porn.
Lara used to be this amazing, self aware, bad ass bitch with huge tits and a spelunking complex. She didn't take shit from anybody, yet was still human.. Now shes some emo, damaged little girl, and we are supposed to believe she's strong and edgey? GTFO. The irony, as some have stated, is that OG TR wasnt character driven, but exploration. Yet, OG lara oozes character and charisma. Why is that?......
A survival game:
The player actively participated in her adventure. Lara and the player shared failure, and success. Philosophically, TR was always a "survival" game. It may not have had the fancy crafting systems or open world associated with survival games today, but; "what is at the core of survival?" Managing limited resources, understanding your environment, weighing risk versus reward and actually having consequences to those risks.
The environmemt was the antagonist, not hordes of souless baddies to mow down. Your medi packs were cherrished because they were scarce and each step, each leap, had potential conseqeunces. You weren't handed a glowing route, you needed to fimd it for yoirself. Not through QTE, context based animation or auto grabs. YOU had to do the work. YOU had to execute.
It never will be Tomb Raider. TR13/15 isnt built for that player. From a technical perspective, the reboot has been very tight and clean. But it will never don a true sense of survival and connection to Lara when they're forced into failure. Not knowing anything, but needing to figure out something. Its much easier to go pew pew pew with rehashed, established mechanocs, then put a skin on it with some marketing.
And yes I agree about Horizon. When I first saw the trailer I immediately thought "THATS tomb raider and lara for this era." The context of story and aesthetic is different, but philosophically it had a very similar vibe to me.
StrongBlackVine
Banned
You thought wrong. There is history that shows that late ports do not sell very well on console. Late ports from Xbox to PS in particular(Bioshock, Mass Effect). Whether TR's previous history on PS will mitigate that is is up for debate.
Betting on the wrong horse often doesn't end well. Can't say it would have sold better on PS4, but it would have sold better if it released on all platforms. I'd have purchased it on PC, but I don't have an X1 and its not the game that's going to make me buy one, either.
It will be a day one purchase for me on PC when it finally releases. Hope that they get to make another at some point, I really enjoyed Tomb Raider 2013.
It will be a day one purchase for me on PC when it finally releases. Hope that they get to make another at some point, I really enjoyed Tomb Raider 2013.
The marketing for Tomb Raider has always used Lara as a sex symbol. That really hasn't changed, though the form has. But what really sold the games was the fact that they were really good games. They were at the forefront of 3D gaming and pioneered 3D space navigation in a way that treated players with respect even moreso than games like Mario 64.
TR didn't have to be rebooted because the old formula got stale. Between 1996 and 2000 Eidos demanded yearly entries in the franchise from Core. They made 5 games in 5 years. The first 4 were all hits. The 5th game was a dud because it was an obvious cash-in game Eidos forced Core to make when they were trying to make their first entry for PS2. This forced Core to split their team to make both games, and both games turned into messes that hurt the brand. Angel of Darkness turned out to be a fairly significant departure from what fans of the series enjoyed about the franchise, with a darker tone and too heavy a focus on story and character. Eidos kicked Core off the franchise and put Crystal Dynamics in charge.
Crystal Dynamics rebooted the franchise and made it more action-oriented and even more character-driven. Lots of shootbang, lots of QTEs, lots of crappy mommy issues. They basically focused on things people didn't like and amplified them. Marketing for Tomb Raider in this era was severely reduced and the games hardly did better than Angel of Darkness. Eidos even forced Crystal Dynamics to release Tomb Raider: Underworld in an unfinished state since they were again trying to do the yearly release thing.
Then Square buys Eidos and Crystal Dynamics reboots the franchise again. They double down on the things people have complained about again. More awful character drama, more QTEs, less platforming, less puzzles, more shooting. Square puts an ENORMOUS marketing budget behind this reboot. They must have spent a fortune. And then the game ended up not selling enough to be worth Square's budget for it. They eventually made it up in sales with the re-release, but it wasn't exactly a resounding success.
anothertech
Member
Wait, there's no dual pistols in this game???
I thought the end of the first was hinting she was finally getting this !
Dam, missed opportunity.
I thought the end of the first was hinting she was finally getting this !
Dam, missed opportunity.
Chobel
Member
We're ok with late ports, we just don't expect them to sell well.
PC maybe, PS4? Good luck with that.
thekiddfran
Member
Because this one sold like complete shit
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Is RotTR really that different from TR2013? Because all the reviews I've read suggested that if you liked the first one you'll like this, and if you didn't like TR2013 the new one won't convince you to switch side.
And, well, TR2013 was kind of garbage, so... no. And I'm not even a fan of the old TR games either -- but I'd love to see them reinvented with modern graphics and controls and camera but keeping the exploration and puzzle solving true to its roots. But nooo gotta have a QTE-filled hand-holdy shooter instead... -_-
(If the reviews are inaccurate and RotTR is completely different than TR2013, then disregard the above.)
I hope someone else gets a shot at Tomb Raider. With someone else I don't necessarily mean another software house, just another creative director and writer.
This Tomb Raider is not the Tomb Raider I want and I don't know who I have to blame for it, Square or CD. Call me selfish but the last thing I ever imagined is Tomb Raider getting the B-movie, Snyder-directed, shitty-writed Hollywood treatment. There are other games out there that do the same job, better and worse.. there was just no need for Lara to get into the club.
That being said, as the others have pointed out, the game was well received and if it sold poorly is only due to a bad release window and the weird exclusive deal with MS. CD has no fault and I trust they will have another chance to make a new TR.
This Tomb Raider is not the Tomb Raider I want and I don't know who I have to blame for it, Square or CD. Call me selfish but the last thing I ever imagined is Tomb Raider getting the B-movie, Snyder-directed, shitty-writed Hollywood treatment. There are other games out there that do the same job, better and worse.. there was just no need for Lara to get into the club.
That being said, as the others have pointed out, the game was well received and if it sold poorly is only due to a bad release window and the weird exclusive deal with MS. CD has no fault and I trust they will have another chance to make a new TR.
I like the XCOM-esque double approach SE has. TR brand for one style of game, Lc brand for another. And then the GO branding on mobile for those offshoots. It would be great if they had a third pillar called Lara Croft/TR Chronicals or something, which was the old gameplay style. Trade off each style on a yearly rotation.
Rhazer Fusion
Member
Honestly, I just don't think ROTR appealed to the XBox demographic the same way it appealed to the Playstation demographic and the sales data for TR2013 basically proved that. Add in the fact that it was competing against the most anticipated high profile games of the year and from my observation, the marketing wasn't particularly great for it.
What worries me is by the time it comes to PS4, it's going to be antiquated news with probably only a few minor enhancements and tweaks going up against even more high profile games. You just know how these companies love to release their games up against the competition. Also, old ports generally do not sell as well as they could from what I've seen unless they are significantly enhanced. Hopefully, I will be proven wrong, but I just do not know at this point.
Rhazer Fusion
Member
I actually see it selling better on the PS4 than the PC. DIdn't TR2013 sell best on the PS4/PS3?
FairXchange
Member
So a game that only Xbox owners could purchase sold poorly on those platforms because of people who owned PS4? How did you possibly arrive to this conclusion?
the_batman
Banned
how shit?
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
lol at PS4 gamers causing an uproar convincing X1 owners to not buy a videogame. What nonsense.
If GOTY edition is 20$ in January of 2017, I will ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)ROUGE_BLOCK said:
Chobel
Member
I highly doubt that, PS4 version will release in late 2016, a very crowded period. With TR2 being one year old port, I can't see it competing.
semiconscious
Member
...the_batman
Banned
don't worry, OP, the game will come home to open arms next year.
LOL, why should those who got fucked by the money-hat in the first place now save the game?!?!? This is ridiculous.
I can't see the game doing great numbers on the PS4. After Uncharted 4? Being released when all the huge holliday titles hit the shelves!
TR DE sold well in the beginning of 2014, because, guess what, PS4 and One indeed had no gamez. Totally different situation in late 2016. The game is fucked, DOA, the damage has been done. Hopefully there will be another one. It is safe to say that it's not on MS to choose if they want to money-hat another title - or - Pubs will make it verrrry expensive for them in the future,
thekiddfran
Member
It didn't even get into the top 10 NPD sales for November.
Remember, Square Enix were dissappointed with the 5 million units for TR 2013.
Stallion Dan
Member
I'm sure I read somewhere CD pitched the deal idea to SE.
Cpt.Underpants
Member
Prolly gonna buy it. Loved the first one but not gonna pay for a late game at a full price. Not sorry CD
There is nothing definitive. Just speculation based on the fact that CD usually prefers working internally with the Xbox and ports to other platforms are handed to other studios.
Darkstorne
Member
Thing is, regardless of whether this is true or not, even Square should know that given the right conditions a well designed Tomb Raider game will sell well. RotTR still has a second marketing push on the way when it releases on PS4/PC, and if they can learn from the mistakes made here (no exclusivity, no launching alongside Bethesda or a similar juggernaut, no pissing off core fans by being coy about timed exclusivity) then there's no doubt that another CD developed Tomb Raider game will be very profitable, regardless of how RotTR ends up performing when it's released on PS4/PC.
no specific date, iirc. PS4 version is whenever that exclusivity deal is up.
This is how issues work, yes.
This is a great summary of what has happened, it also gets at the big issue here; as long as a money-hungry company like Eidos is behind the franchise it's inherently tainted. I'd be lying if I said I'd care much if CD lose the series (Core certainly got thrown under a bus for less), but I don't think your desires or talent really matter much when you're stuck under a tyrant who will inevitably force you to shit out a half-finished game or take other (long-term) self-destructive measures the moment money starts running dry.
You jerk! This is why we won't get a third game. :x
boredandlazy
Member
Logical, level headed thinking certainly wasn't part of it.
Samurai G0SU
Member
bought this myself for X-MAS when the $40 deal was going on. Got 20% off that wit my Bestbuy gamer club. Gonna have a blast when i get my hands into this.
However, halo 5 MP so good i can't stop playing =/
Well he did say he felt like he was taking crazy pills, I'm betting he actually is.
JetSetRadio
Banned
I'd like to see them do something else because I'm really not feeling those TR reboots.
It's a good dev though.
It's a good dev though.
Ghost Slayer
Member
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
This x 1000!
Plague Doctor
Member
Like another Legacy of Kain that isn't a F2P multiplayer thing? Tempt the original development team back with moneys untold? Yes. This. Now. My veins.
All will be forgiven and you can moneyhat to Ouya for exclusive timed release for all I care.
uncledonnie
Banned
Have you even played ROTR? If anything she is more of a "bad ass bitch" in that game. I don't see how anyone could get "emo" from how she is portrayed.
MarineMountie
Member
I enjoyed the TR Reboot on PS4. I was really excited for Rise of the Tomb Raider until Square looked me in the eyes and told me to go fuck myself. They didn't want my money, so I won't give it to them.
For that reason, I will buy the game as soon as I find it used.
For that reason, I will buy the game as soon as I find it used.
Why? Because she mows down cannon fodder with impunity?