Support NeoGAF

[MooseKing]

I am getting tired of people in every thread saying "Sony will have the best specs". "Microsoft will not be as technically impressive". Yet they have no idea what they are talking about, and couldn't explain why. They are just regurgitating things they heard elsewhere on Neogaf.

The only impressive thing about the PS4 is the unified GDDR5. Compared to PC's (even those build a few years ago) The CPU is trash, the GPU is trash.

If Microsoft released a console with a superior CPU and GPU, it would be a more powerful machine hands down. Although GDDR5 has more bandwidth, and is faster than standard ram, it does not make up for the limitations of the CPU and GPU. Which is a big reason why in the UE4 demo shown, during the large castle scene with the demon knight, they had shadows completely turned off (as shown on Reddit). Where as when that demo was shown at E3 running on the PC, they had more realistic lighting and shadows fully enabled.

Moreover, for all anyone knows the entire thing was running on a PC without GDDR5 being used for the basic computing (and only for the GPU). Nobody saw the PS4, and from all accounts it has not been made and the developer unit does not have GDDR5.

 

[metalslimer]

I am getting tired of people in every thread saying "Sony will have the best specs". "Microsoft will not be as technically impressive". Yet they have no idea what they are talking about, and couldn't explain why. They are just regurgitating things they heard elsewhere on Neogaf.

The only impressive thing about the PS4 is the unified GDDR5. The CPU is trash, the GPU is trash.

If Microsoft released a console with a superior CPU and GPU, it would be a more powerful machine hands down. Although GDDR5 has more bandwidth, and is faster than standard ram, it does not make up for the limitations of the CPU and GPU. Which is a big reason why in the UE4 demo shown, during the large castle scene with the demon knight, they had shadows completely turned off (as shown on Reddit). Where as when that demo was shown at E3 running on the PC, they had more realistic lighting and shadows fully enabled.

Moreover, for all anyone knows the entire thing was running on a PC without GDDR5 being used for the basic computing (and only for the GPU). Nobody saw the PS4, and from all accounts it has not been made and the developer unit does not have GDDR5.

They certainly aren't high end but trash?

 

[rdrr gnr]

We have rumors about more efficient CPU cores for MSFT's machine, but we have heard nothing about the GPU being better.

 

[MooseKing]

They certainly aren't high end but trash?

I mean in comparison to that on the PC, or that Microsoft has the potential of using.

I know the specs have been leaked, but who knows what surprises they have in store.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

If Microsoft released a console with a superior CPU and GPU, it would be a more powerful machine hands down.

Going by the rumors, they are releasing a console with 33% less graphic processing powers than the PS4 has. What will you call this then, if the PS4 GPU is "trash"?

 

[Hoo-doo]

I mean in comparison to that on the PC, or that Microsoft has the potential of using.

I know the specs have been leaked, but who knows what surprises they have in store.

So you disregard the actual specs that are leaked by numerous people that have been mostly spot-on for the PS4, and instead rely on nothing but your own wishful thinking that they have some unknown surprises waiting.

Okay.

 

[Derrick01]

They certainly aren't high end but trash?

If they're trash then MS is in bad shape since the CPU is the same and the GPU is worse than PS4, going by the latest leaked specs.

 

[derFeef]

GPU does not bother me too much, it's the RAM that just seems bonkers on the Sony side. Umcompromised and "fuck it, 8GB" ... impressive.

 

[BlastProcessing]

I mean in comparison to that on the PC, or that Microsoft has the potential of using.

I know the specs have been leaked, but who knows what surprises they have in store.

But the GPU's not "trash" compared to PC. It seems to be somewhere between a 7850 and a 7870 in performance. I have a 7870. It is a very good card. Sure there are better cards, but that dosen't mean it is trash. Something that approximates a $200 GPU in a console is quite good.

The CPU has a lackluster IPC, true. But I am interested in what developers can do with the ability to efficiently offload compute to the GPU. That is the exiting thing about the APU architecture.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

More players is HUGE. That's the biggest complaint of the first and is a massive hurdle they've overcome.

Isn't the biggest complaint about kinect the fact that it fundamentally doesn't work for anything other than broad sweeping semaphore like movements, and as a result its utility for gaming outside of full body workouts / copy the positions displayed on screen and lack of any form of tactile response means it is always going to be relegated to a niche rather than any form of core experience?

 

[szaromir]

But the GPU's not "trash" compared to PC. It seems to be somewhere between a 7850 and a 7870 in performance. I have a 7870. It is a very good card. Sure there are better cards, but that dosen't mean it is trash. Something that approximates a $200 GPU in a console is quite good.

It's between 7770 and 7850 though.

 

[BlastProcessing]

It's between 7770 and 7850 though.

How so?
The 7770 is 1.28 TFLOPS the 7870 is 1.76 TFLOPS and the 7870 is 2.56 TFLOPS. The PS4 GPU is 1.84 TFLOPS. On the most recent Anandtech podcast They where pleased with the PS4 GPU and said its performance was between the 7850 and 7870. They are disappointed with the CPU though.

This is the first time I have heard the PS4 GPU compared to a 7770. Do you have any links I could read on that?

 

[derFeef]

How so?
The 7770 is 1.28 TFLOPS the 7870 is 1.76 TFLOPS and the 7870 is 2.56 TFLOPS. The PS4 GPU is 1.84 TFLOPS. On the most recent Anandtech podcast They where pleased with the PS4 GPU and said its performance was between the 7850 and 7870. They are disappointed with the CPU though.

This is the first time I have heard the PS4 GPU compared to a 7770. Do you have any links I could read on that?

Nobody is talking abut the PS4 GPU I believe.

 

[Biggzy]

How so?
The 7770 is 1.28 TFLOPS the 7870 is 1.76 TFLOPS and the 7870 is 2.56 TFLOPS. The PS4 GPU is 1.84 TFLOPS. On the most recent Anandtech podcast They where pleased with the PS4 GPU and said its performance was between the 7850 and 7870. They are disappointed with the CPU though.

This is the first time I have heard the PS4 GPU compared to a 7770. Do you have any links I could read on that?

It's Durango's GPU that is comparable to a 7770, judging by the leaks.

 

[BlastProcessing]

Nobody is talking abut the PS4 GPU I believe.

...well if they were, I would of showed 'em all!

It's Durango's GPU that is comparable to a 7770, judging by the leaks.

Sorry, I am following too many threads at once.

 

[szaromir]

I meant the PS4 GPU. There's more to it than FLOPS, but in shader capabilities it indeed does slightly beat 7850.

 

[Shaneus]

I'm mostly interested to see Phil Harrison's influence.

He oversaw hits and misses at SCE but there's no denying his priority was always variety. And games like Buzz and Singstar wouldn't have got to market without him.

Oh shit, I had no idea Harrison had moved over to MS. Obviously knew he left Sony and had moved to Atari, but... yikes, that's a decent score for them, isn't it?

Do MS have their new J. Allard?

 

[Syphon Filter]

I don't get how ps4 will end up more powerful. Did MS not look into getting the best possible components or something? I would think they would have even more powerful hardware due to being in a better financial position than sony. Anyone care to shed some light on this?

 

[m23]

Oh shit, I had no idea Harrison had moved over to MS. Obviously knew he left Sony and had moved to Atari, but... yikes, that's a decent score for them, isn't it?

Do MS have their new J. Allard?

Nope. No one will ever match up to the great J Allard.

 

[Shaneus]

Nope. No one will ever match up to the great J Allard.

I was just talking about the shaved head (and the Zune. And the dreadlocks. And all the other stuff ).

 

[BlastProcessing]

I don't get how ps4 will end up more powerful. Did MS not look into getting the best possible components or something? I would think they would have even more powerful hardware due to being in a better financial position than sony. Anyone care to shed some light on this?

You don't necessarily need to be more powerful. You just need to build a balanced system that can be profitable. Microsoft decided on a performance target, weighing the variables of power, cost and reliability.

Making sensible financial decisions is one of the reasons Microsoft is in a better financial position in the first place. They aren't going to throw that away to get caught up in a pissing contest.

 

[Satchel]

ok then. lets see after the nextbox event then. if im wrong with my kinect prediction (that it will be the main focus of the show besides the console itself) then you are welcome to call me a shortsighted fool. i'm just speculating here, but speculating based on microsoft and the way they have run the games department the last couple of years.

As opposed to how they launched both the OG Xbox AND the Xbox 360?

Good call.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

If they're trash then MS is in bad shape since the CPU is the same and the GPU is worse than PS4, going by the latest leaked specs.

The changes to the next xbox CPU that were rumoured were debunked?

 

[DasMarcos]

Even though it has been all rumor and no substance so far I'm worried that MS will launch a console that is more heavily focused on the Kinect/entertainment hub features.

My gut tells me that a cheaper more entertainment centered console would sell much better than a PS4 made for gamers because the entertainment center idea speaks to a wider demographic. I'm sure we'll have to take into account marketing, exposure, and software as well but MS's next move is worrying me plenty.

 

[Derrick01]

The changes to the next xbox CPU that were rumoured were debunked?

More like they haven't really been leaked yet. I still haven't seen anything about it except for a Gaf member claiming it changed.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

More like they haven't really been leaked yet. I still haven't seen anything about it except for a Gaf member claiming it changed.

Fair point, although it was suggested the poster who relayed the information was reliable.

In any case, someone mentioned that developers were due to get beta kits today or at some point this week, so I'm hopeful VG Leaks will get their hands on the specifications and will be doing another expose at some point.

 

[Klocker]

You don't necessarily need to be more powerful. You just need to build a balanced system that can be profitable. Microsoft decided on a performance target, weighing the variables of power, cost and reliability.

Making sensible financial decisions is one of the reasons Microsoft is in a better financial position in the first place. They aren't going to throw that away to get caught up in a pissing contest.

this.

I think we will all be surprised, not by some sweeping change to what we know but to details of the system compared to the stock specs which were designed to help the system overcome the perceived shortcomings compared to Sony

in short

I think when all features of the hardware are described publicly we will find that the system is designed much more efficiently to keep it within PS360 differences in graphics which as we all know means nothing to the vast majority of those who will purchase it.

 

[derFeef]

More like they haven't really been leaked yet. I still haven't seen anything about it except for a Gaf member claiming it changed.

Yup. I have been saying this for a while now, the only true unknown factor is the CPU in it's details if we go by rumor specs.

 

[szaromir]

this.

I think we will all be surprised, not by some sweeping change to what we know but to details of the system compared to the stock specs which were designed to help the system overcome the perceived shortcomings compared to Sony

in short

I think when all features of the hardware are described publicly we will find that the system is designed much more efficiently to keep it within PS360 differences in graphics which as we all know means nothing to the vast majority of those who will purchase it.

I think you misunderstood his post. He didn't say MS would get better performance/price or performance/wattage ratios than Sony, he said that if Microsoft's targets a lower specification than Sony, then it might be a smarter move than going nuts with performance.

 

[Karak]

If they are good games, why does it matter where they come from?

Ya seems odd. The money makes sense to try to get exclusives versus creating an entire studio. Obviously for some games this might not be right but I am a games fan. I don't care about those kinds of random things myself either.
But I also never held it against any other hardware manufacturer that did that and other have.

 

[Krakatoa]

I hope announce another zero hour event for the launch. The last one was a blast.

 

[Izick]

I hope announce another zero hour event for the launch. The last one was a blast.

Consoles are one of the few, if not only, things I'll ever wait multiple hours in line for. Not even because they're going to be sold out, but just because I love the whole thing. The idea of never playing something before...being one of the first to experience and talk about it. It's probably childish on some level, but damn I love the hype and excitement of it all.

Here's to seeing you all on launch night.