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Infinity Ward confirms: CoD Ghost is 720p on Xbox One, 1080p on PS4

B

boredofcanada

Member
Blobbers said:
People are forgetting that Microsoft has a deal with developers that no rival consoles may have more graphics than them. That means that the PS4 and XBox One version of Ghosts has the same amount of graphics. But keep in mind the PS4 is 1080p which means the graphics are stretched, while XBox One's 720p is the sweet spot and graphics are much closer together which gives a better-looking, more succinct experience.

In conclusion, if you run the same game on 1080p hardware and 720p hardware, the 720p will look way better. Now sprinkle that with some crushed blacks (XBox One exclusive feature) and the games look-not next-gen- but neo-gen (that's more than next-gen).

Hope this clears stuff up.
Click to expand...


Stuff has been cleared. Carry on
 
Wishmaster92

Wishmaster92

Member
robertsan21 said:
So has Penello crawled back out of his cave to defend this yet?
Click to expand...
As a potential xbox one buyer, he should really be honest and come out to talk about this issue. We are paying a higher premium than ps4. I want him to clear up this "No way we are giving Sony a 30% performance lead." Exclusives are the only thing holding me back from cancelling the preorder. 720p is pathetic for a $500 dollar system wtf..

Love this article:

http://www.videogamer.com/features/article/pixelated_xbox_ones_720p_problem_is_the_biggest_deal-breaker_yet.html
 
P

plagiarize

Banned
coldfoot said:
I don't know if I'm LTTP, but I see this Xbox scaler secret sauce FUD being stated by a bunch of posters, and it's time for some facts:

The PS3, PS4, 360, One ALL have hardware scalers. These scalers are simply GPU fixed-function blocks in all of them and they don't cost anything to use. The scalers are not separate chips, they're just a section inside the GPU.

The PS3's RSX has a hardware scaler that's shitty and broken as it cannot scale an image both vertically and horizontally. It can only scale horizontally. It's being used in such games like GT5 and Motorstorm Apocalypse (2D mode) where it stretches a 1280x1080 native render to 1920x1080, or at Wipeout where the resolution is dynamic but only scaled horizontally between 960x1080 through 1280x1080, 1600x1080 etc, only through the horizontal axis.

This means that any game that's not rendering at somethingx1080 or native 720p is being upscaled via software on the PS3. This includes all the COD games, GTA4, Crysis 2,3, etc. This is done at a minor cost to performance and more importantly memory, which is very precious on the PS3. This also explains why most PS3 games output at 720p, as there is no way to scale 720p to 1080p in hardware in the PS3 and it leaves it up to your TV to scale it. ANY SOURCE that's not 1080p that you watch on a 1080p TV is scaled to 1080p by your TV no matter what the input is, unless you letterbox it and use only half your TV to view it, which nobody does.

The lack of a proper scaler that works in both dimensions in the PS3 is also the reason why some games render at 480p when you don't have the 720p output option checked in the preferences, like some people did 8 years ago when there were many TV's that supported 1080i (1080i is the same resolution as 1080p, it's just not progressive) but not 720p. Uncharted 2 will render at 960x1080 and use the RSX's scaler if you disable 720p and enable 1080. Towards the end of the generation, most games on PS3 just used a software scaling solution that cost very little performance, and more importantly some memory. Also even very little performance can make a difference when you need all of it, obviously.

The Xbox 360 did not have any of these problems because the AMD GPU inside can scale any resolution to 1080p just fine.

The PS4 and Xbox One have the same hardware scalers that exist in ALL AMD 7xxx series cards and can scale any output resolution to 1080p (and maybe beyond to 4K). Those scaling hardware blocks are GPU components just like the CU's and ROPS.

The reason for the PS4 scaler FUD was due to DF not really knowing what they're talking about and saying this in their BF4 face-off:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-battlefield-4-next-gen-vs-pc-face-off-preview
"This should surely be a home run for Sony's console, but what is likely to be a software-based upscale to 1080p delivers less-than-stellar returns, and for better or worse leaves the Xbox One with an often crisper looking, albeit much more aliased image."

This DF quote, ladies and gentlemen, proves beyond a reasonable doubt, that DF DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT. DF looked at the Xbox One's incorrect gamma and sharpening filter, PS4 motion blur, and the FXAA solution in the PS4 version that slightly blurs textures and guessed immediately went Xbox super awesome scaler > PS4, which is false. They simply projected the scaling issues from the PS3 to the PS4 and incorrectly guessed that PS4 is doing a software upscale. THERE IS NOTHING COMMON ABOUT SCALING BETWEEN THE PS3 AND PS4, THEY USE DIFFERENT GPU VENDORS! All 7xxx series cards and APU's based on them have hardware scalers and developers have no reason to not use them as they're free.

As far as scaling games, both consoles have equivalent scalers. Only difference is MS can scale 3 different outputs, required for Game, UI, Snap, compared to 2 for PS4.

Sorry for the long read but this "DF software upscaler FUD" really pissed me off and I wanted to set things straight.
Click to expand...

it's still possible that BF4 is using a software scaler on PS4. I don't think we know for certain that it isn't. If the game's menus or overlays are in 1080p, that would be a possible sign it's using a software scaler. For example, Alan Wake on 360 using software scaling for it's sub HD resolution up to 720p, so the cutscenes and hud elements could all be presented in native 720p.

you're most likely right, but there are still reasons why you might want to use a software scaler even in a system that has a hardware scaler.
 
J

Jack_AG

Banned
coldfoot said:
I don't know if I'm LTTP, but I see this Xbox scaler secret sauce FUD being stated by a bunch of posters, and it's time for some facts:

The PS3, PS4, 360, One ALL have hardware scalers. These scalers are simply GPU fixed-function blocks in all of them and they don't cost anything to use. The scalers are not separate chips, they're just a section inside the GPU.

The PS3's RSX has a hardware scaler that's shitty and broken as it cannot scale an image both vertically and horizontally. It can only scale horizontally. It's being used in such games like GT5 and Motorstorm Apocalypse (2D mode) where it stretches a 1280x1080 native render to 1920x1080, or at Wipeout where the resolution is dynamic but only scaled horizontally between 960x1080 through 1280x1080, 1600x1080 etc, only through the horizontal axis.

This means that any game that's not rendering at somethingx1080 or native 720p is being upscaled via software on the PS3. This includes all the COD games, GTA4, Crysis 2,3, etc. This is done at a minor cost to performance and more importantly memory, which is very precious on the PS3. This also explains why most PS3 games output at 720p, as there is no way to scale 720p to 1080p in hardware in the PS3 and it leaves it up to your TV to scale it. ANY SOURCE that's not 1080p that you watch on a 1080p TV is scaled to 1080p by your TV no matter what the input is, unless you letterbox it and use only half your TV to view it, which nobody does.

The lack of a proper scaler that works in both dimensions in the PS3 is also the reason why some games render at 480p when you don't have the 720p output option checked in the preferences, like some people did 8 years ago when there were many TV's that supported 1080i (1080i is the same resolution as 1080p, it's just not progressive) but not 720p. Uncharted 2 will render at 960x1080 and use the RSX's scaler if you disable 720p and enable 1080. Towards the end of the generation, most games on PS3 just used a software scaling solution that cost very little performance, and more importantly some memory. Also even very little performance can make a difference when you need all of it, obviously.

The Xbox 360 did not have any of these problems because the AMD GPU inside can scale any resolution to 1080p just fine.

The PS4 and Xbox One have the same hardware scalers that exist in ALL AMD 7xxx series cards and can scale any output resolution to 1080p (and maybe beyond to 4K). Those scaling hardware blocks are GPU components just like the CU's and ROPS.

The reason for the PS4 scaler FUD was due to DF not really knowing what they're talking about and saying this in their BF4 face-off:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-battlefield-4-next-gen-vs-pc-face-off-preview
"This should surely be a home run for Sony's console, but what is likely to be a software-based upscale to 1080p delivers less-than-stellar returns, and for better or worse leaves the Xbox One with an often crisper looking, albeit much more aliased image."

This DF quote, ladies and gentlemen, proves beyond a reasonable doubt, that DF DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT. DF looked at the Xbox One's incorrect gamma and sharpening filter, PS4 motion blur, and the FXAA solution in the PS4 version that slightly blurs textures and guessed immediately went Xbox super awesome scaler > PS4, which is false. They simply projected the scaling issues from the PS3 to the PS4 and incorrectly guessed that PS4 is doing a software upscale. THERE IS NOTHING COMMON ABOUT SCALING BETWEEN THE PS3 AND PS4, THEY USE DIFFERENT GPU VENDORS! All 7xxx series cards and APU's based on them have hardware scalers and developers have no reason to not use them as they're free.

As far as scaling games, both consoles have equivalent scalers. Only difference is MS can scale 3 different outputs, required for Game, UI, Snap, compared to 2 for PS4.

Sorry for the long read but this "DF software upscaler FUD" really pissed me off and I wanted to set things straight.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this, bro. Damn. Good read. +1
 
D

darkwing

Member
CoG said:
Well, Xbox One has svogi version 1.4 where the PS4 has version 1.3. 1.4 added texticular occultation and narrowed the subpixel PWM depth rate from ~1.7Gf/s down to about ~1.2Gf/s (depending on which benchmark you believe). That along with the compressed vertex sparse tree matrix flyweight algorithm patented by MS and only in the Xbox One flavor of DX 11.2+ is going to give them a substantial bandwidth advantage once developers figure it all out. The November dev kits go out tomorrow so maybe too late for launch but E3 is going to be interesting :)
Click to expand...

is....is this the secret sauce??
 
T

TheD

The Detective
Coulomb_Barrier said:
Not attacking Mr Morgan here as I'm sure he's a good, honest guy.

But he was recruited relatively recently and he seems to be quite young. So I don't think he is going to be an authority on GPU tech or hardware etc. Not anywhere close. He's obviously just a journalist with good technical knowledge.

Even Leadbetter himself is someone who is self-taught with regards to his subject area. He's not a dev or programmer.

So I would expect mistakes in the technical details with some regularity when it comes to the finer points of computer graphics or hardware. The problem is there isn't any other big publications doing the type of comparisons DF do, so a lot of what is typed there is taken as gospel by the wider audience.
Click to expand...

I would hardly call some of the mistakes finer details.
(e.g claimed the AMD trinity APUs have 512MB of GDDR5 VRAM when it in fact has no such thing).

Tsundere said:
People actually believed Penello?!
Click to expand...

I forgot how flat out dishonest his post was, fucking hell.
 
G

Gordon Shumway

Banned
Blobbers said:
People are forgetting that Microsoft has a deal with developers that no rival consoles may have more graphics than them. That means that the PS4 and XBox One version of Ghosts has the same amount of graphics. But keep in mind the PS4 is 1080p which means the graphics are stretched, while XBox One's 720p is the sweet spot and graphics are much closer together which gives a better-looking, more succinct experience.

In conclusion, if you run the same game on 1080p hardware and 720p hardware, the 720p will look way better. Now sprinkle that with some crushed blacks (XBox One exclusive feature) and the games look-not next-gen- but neo-gen (that's more than next-gen).

Hope this clears stuff up.
Click to expand...
tumblr_m0mlavyDut1r3x7i2o1_500.jpg
 
MMaRsu

MMaRsu

Banned
Blobbers said:
People are forgetting that Microsoft has a deal with developers that no rival consoles may have more graphics than them. That means that the PS4 and XBox One version of Ghosts has the same amount of graphics. But keep in mind the PS4 is 1080p which means the graphics are stretched, while XBox One's 720p is the sweet spot and graphics are much closer together which gives a better-looking, more succinct experience.


Hope this clears stuff up.
Click to expand...

Lol what a bunch of grade A bullshit.
 
S

swordfishtrombones

Member
Blobbers said:
People are forgetting that Microsoft has a deal with developers that no rival consoles may have more graphics than them. That means that the PS4 and XBox One version of Ghosts has the same amount of graphics. But keep in mind the PS4 is 1080p which means the graphics are stretched, while XBox One's 720p is the sweet spot and graphics are much closer together which gives a better-looking, more succinct experience.

In conclusion, if you run the same game on 1080p hardware and 720p hardware, the 720p will look way better. Now sprinkle that with some crushed blacks (XBox One exclusive feature) and the games look-not next-gen- but neo-gen (that's more than next-gen).

Hope this clears stuff up.
Click to expand...

Exactly! 720p is like drinking a nice Single Malt neat. The 1080p experience will be like adding 2.25x water to your whiskey. Yes it's more, but so diluted!

Seriously, this thread is such a nice blend of masterful trolling, sincere attempts at explanation and the occasional delusional comment. I love it.
 
R

robertsan21

Member
Wishmaster92 said:
As a potential xbox one buyer, he should really be honest and come out to talk about this issue. We are paying a higher premium than ps4. I want him to clear up this "No way we are giving Sony a 30% performance lead." Exclusives are the only thing holding me back from cancelling the preorder. 720p is pathetic for a $500 dollar system wtf..

Love this article:

http://www.videogamer.com/features/article/pixelated_xbox_ones_720p_problem_is_the_biggest_deal-breaker_yet.html
Click to expand...


I am sorry dude, it sucks. But I think it´s time to cancel the preorder cause it´s not looking good for the Xboned regarding 1080p
 
J

Jack_AG

Banned
Skeff said:
He is hiding in the UI thread with the XB1 fans and on reddit.

He really should address his previous comments in light of recent revelations.
Click to expand...

After saying things like:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=80168873&postcount=708

"the performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe. There are things about our system architecture not fully understood, and there are things about theirs as well, that bring the two systems into balance"

"Microsoft has some of the smartest graphics programmers IN THE WORLD. We CREATED DirectX"

"do you really think we don’t know how to build a system optimized for maximizing graphics for programmers? Seriously?"

"I get a ton of hate for saying this – but it’s been the same EVERY generation. Sony claims more power, they did it with Cell, they did it with Emotion Engine, and they are doing it again. And, in the end, games on our system looked the same or better"

" anyone who wants to die on their sword over this 30%+ power advantage are going to be fighting an uphill battle over the next 10 years"

Too much egg on face.
 
C

coldfoot

Banned
swordfishtrombones said:
Exactly! 720p is like drinking a nice Single Malt neat. The 1080p experience will be like adding 2.25x water to your whiskey. Yes it's more, but so diluted!
Click to expand...

Actually that's a great way to explain upscaling.

720p is a half glass of whiskey
1080p is a full glass of whiskey
upscaled 720p to 1080p is a full glass consisting of half whiskey and half water.
 
T

tinfoilhatman

all of my posts are my avatar
robertsan21 said:
So has Penello crawled back out of his cave to defend this yet?
Click to expand...

Agreed I wanna see some commentary by Microsoft about how they possibly f'd up the X1 hardware so badly when they could have spent the money required to dominate north America this gen.

Good luck Microsoft I won't be along for the ride this time
 
C

coldfoot

Banned
plagiarize said:
it's still possible that BF4 is using a software scaler on PS4. I don't think we know for certain that it isn't. If the game's menus or overlays are in 1080p, that would be a possible sign it's using a software scaler. For example, Alan Wake on 360 using software scaling for it's sub HD resolution up to 720p, so the cutscenes and hud elements could all be presented in native 720p.
Click to expand...
The PC (1080p) and X1 versions of BF4 have the same size UI elements, whereas the PS4 UI is smaller. It's obvious X1 is rendering the UI at 1080p but the PS4 isn't.
 
J

jschreier

Member
The more interesting question here - and something I don't think we know yet - is why the game runs at 720p on XB1 and 1080p on PS4. Now that's a question I want to find the answer to. Everyone's assuming the explanation is that IW had to sacrifice resolution to get the XB1 version performing well enough, and that might be the case, but there could be other factors here, too. Maybe they just got XB1 devtools late and didn't have enough time to acclimate.
 
N

NHale

Member
I would never predict that people would suggest that 720p vs 1080p is not a big difference at all, especially after a generation where a 720p to 690p difference was like a huge deal on face-offs.

But Xbone owners should just enjoy the game on the console and quit grasping at straws. It's a considerable difference but at the same time console owners have been playing on sub-HD resolutions for years while PC owners played the same games at double the framerate in 1080p, so why worry about that now? Just enjoy the game.
 
C

Crackbone

Member
Tsundere said:
People actually believed Penello?!
Click to expand...

I think some actually did.

I come from a PC gaming background, and it was clear to me stacking up the specs what was going to happen.

Now, I believe that many folks, especially firmly in the Xbox camp, looked at the comparisons much like the generation we're about to sunset.

PS3 v 360.

What they didn't take into account was that the architectures this time are remarkably similar making a comparison pretty easy to do. That, and brand allegiant fans don't like being told their horse is the slow one.
 
M

Marleyman

Banned
jschreier said:
The more interesting question here - and something I don't think we know yet - is why the game runs at 720p on XB1 and 1080p on PS4. Now that's a question I want to find the answer to. Everyone's assuming the explanation is that IW had to sacrifice resolution to get the XB1 version performing well enough, and that might be the case, but there could be other factors here, too. Maybe they just got XB1 devtools late and didn't have enough time to acclimate.
Click to expand...

Quite possible, especially considering the changes that MS has made to the system over the summer.
 
B

BruiserBear

Banned
jschreier said:
The more interesting question here - and something I don't think we know yet - is why the game runs at 720p on XB1 and 1080p on PS4. Now that's a question I want to find the answer to. Everyone's assuming the explanation is that IW had to sacrifice resolution to get the XB1 version performing well enough, and that might be the case, but there could be other factors here, too. Maybe they just got XB1 devtools late and didn't have enough time to acclimate.
Click to expand...

This is almost certainly known right now. The XB1's esRAM is a bottleneck on memory that the PS4 simply does not have. If a game engine utilizes a differed rendering solution (and many games do), that esRAM only allows the framebuffer to be 32mb, and that makes hitting 1080p very difficult.

The exclusive XB1 games may find ways around this, by customizing the engine to the XB1's weaknesses, as we're seeing with Forza, which runs at 1080p/60fps. But most devs are not going to go out of their way to work around the XB1's problems, so we're getting the results we're getting.
 
B

Bgamer90

Banned
jschreier said:
The more interesting question here - and something I don't think we know yet - is why the game runs at 720p on XB1 and 1080p on PS4. Now that's a question I want to find the answer to. Everyone's assuming the explanation is that IW had to sacrifice resolution to get the XB1 version performing well enough, and that might be the case, but there could be other factors here, too. Maybe they just got XB1 devtools late and didn't have enough time to acclimate.
Click to expand...

Yes, this is what I want to know. It seems like they had to rush the game to meet the XB1 launch (which therefore caused the system's lower specs to hurt the game overall in comparison to PS4) but I would be interested in reading a more detailed and accurate description of what happened.

As I said before, I'm expecting the next COD to be in at least 900p on the XB1 due to more time but anything can happen.
 
P

PhatSaqs

Banned
jschreier said:
The more interesting question here - and something I don't think we know yet - is why the game runs at 720p on XB1 and 1080p on PS4. Now that's a question I want to find the answer to. Everyone's assuming the explanation is that IW had to sacrifice resolution to get the XB1 version performing well enough, and that might be the case, but there could be other factors here, too. Maybe they just got XB1 devtools late and didn't have enough time to acclimate.
Click to expand...
Yep thats what Im saying. And it's not as simple as just pointing to the spec sheet.
 
I

Imp the Dimp

Member
Blobbers said:
People are forgetting that Microsoft has a deal with developers that no rival consoles may have more graphics than them. That means that the PS4 and XBox One version of Ghosts has the same amount of graphics. But keep in mind the PS4 is 1080p which means the graphics are stretched, while XBox One's 720p is the sweet spot and graphics are much closer together which gives a better-looking, more succinct experience.

In conclusion, if you run the same game on 1080p hardware and 720p hardware, the 720p will look way better. Now sprinkle that with some crushed blacks (XBox One exclusive feature) and the games look-not next-gen- but neo-gen (that's more than next-gen).

Hope this clears stuff up.
Click to expand...
Now that you mention it, it makes perfect sense.
 
8

88random

Member
Blobbers said:
People are forgetting that Microsoft has a deal with developers that no rival consoles may have more graphics than them. That means that the PS4 and XBox One version of Ghosts has the same amount of graphics. But keep in mind the PS4 is 1080p which means the graphics are stretched, while XBox One's 720p is the sweet spot and graphics are much closer together which gives a better-looking, more succinct experience.

In conclusion, if you run the same game on 1080p hardware and 720p hardware, the 720p will look way better. Now sprinkle that with some crushed blacks (XBox One exclusive feature) and the games look-not next-gen- but neo-gen (that's more than next-gen).

Hope this clears stuff up.
Click to expand...

10/10
 
H

Hanmik

Member
jschreier said:
The more interesting question here - and something I don't think we know yet - is why the game runs at 720p on XB1 and 1080p on PS4. Now that's a question I want to find the answer to. Everyone's assuming the explanation is that IW had to sacrifice resolution to get the XB1 version performing well enough, and that might be the case, but there could be other factors here, too. Maybe they just got XB1 devtools late and didn't have enough time to acclimate.
Click to expand...

you are the jounalist with connections and a site to bring out this stuff to the people.. so make it happen..!
 
B

BruiserBear

Banned
PhatSaqs said:
Yep thats what Im saying. And it's not as simple as just pointing to the spec sheet.
Click to expand...

People have been trying to use this line for the past 9 months in these debates, and here we are at launch, with the results being laid right before us, and people are still trying to find temporary excuses to explain the differences.

I've seen this debate from it's inception in January/February, and now it's coming to fruition. The PS4 has a clear edge in power. This is not like the previous gen at all, where the PS3 CELL was just difficult to use early on, but eventually could be harnessed for great results. This is just a straight up power difference, and no amount of tweaking or tools can make up that difference.

Just like no upscaler in the XB1 can magically make 720p look just as good as 1080p. It's not possible.
 
D

DragonSworne

Banned
coldfoot said:
Actually that's a great way to explain upscaling.

720p is a half glass of whiskey
1080p is a full glass of whiskey
upscaled 720p to 1080p is a full glass consisting of half whiskey and half water.
Click to expand...


You need a splash of water to release the flavor of the whiskey. I think of this a form of AA, with ice being the worst technique.
 
wapplew

wapplew

Member
BruiserBear said:
People have been trying to use this line for the past 9 months in these debates, and here we are at launch, with the results being laid right before us, and people are still trying to find temporary excuses to explain the differences.

I've seen this debate from it's inception in January/February, and now it's coming to fruition. The PS4 has a clear edge in power. This is not like the previous gen at all, where the PS3 CELL was just difficult to use early on, but eventually could be harnessed for great results. This is just a straight up power difference, and no amount of tweaking or tools can make up that difference.

Just like no upscaler in the XB1 can magically make 720p look just as good as 1080p. It's not possible.
Click to expand...

Well, what we see now might be mixture of both inferior hardware+inferior dev tools
Lets say PS4 power is 100%, and Xbone is 40% now because of both factor.
If they fix the tools, Xbone power might rise to 65%.
That way, some claim next COD will be 900p might be true.
 
M

Marleyman

Banned
BruiserBear said:
I've seen this debate from it's inception in January/February, and now it's coming to fruition. The PS4 has a clear edge in power. This is not like the previous gen at all, where the PS3 CELL was just difficult to use early on, but eventually could be harnessed for great results. This is just a straight up power difference, and no amount of tweaking or tools can make up that difference.
Click to expand...

So those saying that ESRAM can be harnessed down the road are full of shit? If so, how do you know?
 
L

le.phat

Member
Blobbers said:
People are forgetting that Microsoft has a deal with developers that no rival consoles may have more graphics than them. That means that the PS4 and XBox One version of Ghosts has the same amount of graphics. But keep in mind the PS4 is 1080p which means the graphics are stretched, while XBox One's 720p is the sweet spot and graphics are much closer together which gives a better-looking, more succinct experience.

In conclusion, if you run the same game on 1080p hardware and 720p hardware, the 720p will look way better. Now sprinkle that with some crushed blacks (XBox One exclusive feature) and the games look-not next-gen- but neo-gen (that's more than next-gen).

Hope this clears stuff up.
Click to expand...

yessss, thanks for finally revealing the truthest of truthfacts.
 
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