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Is Nicalis one of the worst "indie" publishers in the industry? Why?

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gngf123

Member
Listen, I don't give a shit what Nicalis does.

SO LONG AS THEY DON'T SEND BINDING OF ISAAC REBIRTH INTO THE DEVELOPMENT NEBULOUS.
Edmund has done a good job of communicating things, and from what I gather from this thread communication seems to be the main problem, so I think things are good with this one.
 
We want to do them all simultaneously across all consoles at Steam r as close as possible

Someone earlier in the thread said 1001 Spikes is aiming for a summer release on Sony platforms. Is that rough window what you're looking at for all builds? Just curious because I do want to play the game.
 
1001 Spikes news were all I wanted.
I got them.

i iz hapy~

Still, I agree with duckroll.
Nicalis doesn't seem to be doing too good when it comes to customer service.
 

rjc571

Banned
There are things i have limits to discuss.

- La-Mulana was developed by Nigoro, not Nicalis. Our job was to market and localize the game. If there were delays related to the development you'd be better off asking Nigoro

- I have a version of Guxt on my 3DS, but Guxt as a game isn't to the level it needs to be as a for-purchase game on 3DS. We spent time with Ikachan to polish it more, improve the game, get more detail on the story and give it actual menus. Guxt needs a lot more work than that. You may be frustrated that you can't play it, but I'd rather you be frustrated that you can't play it then just release as-is so you can bitch that it's not good enough.

- There are a ton of factors in regional releases. In the past NOE and the various rating bodies didn't make it easy to release in a timely manner in Europe. We've had discussions extensively with NOE to improve this and they seem to be trying.

- Dissemination of information is my prerogative, not yours. As much as fans feel entitled to information, there is no obligation on the part of the company to release that information. However, with that said, we do try to communicate directly with fans on Twitter, Facebook and in-person at events. Just because we don't communicate to YOU doesn't mean we're not communicating to other players

- We did announce 1001 Spikes two years ago. We've remade the game from scratch. The original game (1000 Spikes) was built on IG Maker and not a port.

1001 Spikes also has:
- over 100 levels (1000 Spikes had 20-something)
- over 20 characters (1000 Spikes had one)
- An actual story with cutscenes and multiple endings and stories for each character (1000 Spikes didn't have this)
- 1-4P co-op and versus modes (1000 Spikes was 1P)
- Professional chiptun music by two great musicians (1000 Spikes had designer music that wasn't great)
- Coming to Wii U, 3DS, PS4, PSV, Xbox One, Windows, Linux and OSX (1000 Spikes was XBLIG only)

Regarding Grinsia, our testing vendor (who we're never using again) didn't catch this. It's not a cop-out and unfortunately that it has a glitch, but we submitted a patch to Nintendo BEFORE the game released so that should go up soon.

Hope this clears things up for you.

-ty

Why did you announce that VVVVVV on 3DS would include the ability to import user levels from the PC version, and then never bothered to implement the feature? And you didn't even announce that the feature had been scrapped before the game was released, which misled people into buying the game thinking that the feature was still in?
 

duckroll

Member
But based on what I read from your OP, this isn't necessarily what you're after. At least, it doesn't seem like it to me.

You lead and led off with negative and biased statements, some of which aren't true. There is only so much I can do to communicate with someone. After that its up to them to accept the information.

The thread was started on the premise that I have a negative opinion of a company, and I proceed to explain why I have this impression. It is an open invitation for anyone to share how they feel, and to correct any inaccuracies there are. Since my opinion is negative, obviously it would lead off that way. Any statement of opinion will be "biased", so that's irrelevant don't you think? If you feel that there are claims which are not true, wouldn't this be a good time to correct them? I certainly don't like repeating things which are untrue.

Nicalis is a unique position of having acquired a number of titles which are genuinely good and sometimes have pre-established fanbases. Yet the general sentiment from my experience is that people see the company as unreliable and slow. Whether you think this assessment is fair or not, it's a reputation the company has. If the reason this reputation was earned is because people are ignorant about the facts, then wouldn't it be in the company's best interest to ensure people who are interested in the company are less ignorant about what's going on?
 

Roto13

Member
Yeah, they're really terrible. I don't know about the worst indie publisher, but they're probably the worst outside of mobile and PC. The black screen in VVVVVV and the freezing in Grinsia are both really easy bugs to encounter and would have been caught if the games had been tested at all. Those should be in the OP.

I'm also not buying that "NOE makes it hard" thing as an excuse for a two year delay.
 
He doesn't, afaik.
Wait, seriously? That's awful. Not a dime? Here's hoping that Playism deal is sweet.
Where is this coming from? Do you have verifiable data that suggests this?

I'm not going to speak how much Daisukebe makes. But him and I are friends and business partners and continue to work together.
He's Nayan from Playism, publishers of Kero Blaster. Hopefully you both have a pretty good idea of Pixel's royalties!
 
Why did you announce that VVVVVV on 3DS would include the ability to import user levels from the PC version, and then never bothered to implement the feature? And you didn't even announce that the feature had been scrapped before the game was released, which misled people into buying the game thinking that the feature was still in?

If I recall correctly, they had to cancel that ability. I think they chose to release it as a post-game patch but found it to be too complicated to implement in the end.

Considering how Nintendo is with allowing people to import content, I suspect there was too much involved to get them to accept the import feature.
 

LayLa

Member
- There are a ton of factors in regional releases. In the past NOE and the various rating bodies didn't make it easy to release in a timely manner in Europe. We've had discussions extensively with NOE to improve this and they seem to be trying.

plenty small publishers manage to get games released on Nintendo EU platforms with little to no delay compared to other regions, NOE are not the only ones that need to be trying harder
 
It was a combination of this and lack of interest from players. At that time I asked for players to submit levels, we got three or four submissions.

Between staying compliant with Nintrndo guidelines and the lack do interest, it didn't make any sense

If I recall correctly, they had to cancel that ability. I think they chose to release it as a post-game patch but found it to be too complicated to implement in the end.

Considering how Nintendo is with allowing people to import content, I suspect there was too much involved to get them to accept the import feature.
 
1001 Spikes news were all I wanted.
I got them.

i iz hapy~

Still, I agree with duckroll.
Nicalis doesn't seem to be doing too good when it comes to customer service.

I think they have a communication problem , maybe if tyrone is a aunthenticated miiverse user, he can give more direct insight over there, i read on their twitter that they have more communities comming soon.
 
I haven't dealt with Nicalis, at least not directly (I've communicated with PR companies that handled their games), but I have covered their games as far as news go.

I think a lot of people have the conception that lots, if not most of these companies have lots of staffers ... you'd be surprised how many of them are very, very small. Lots of people wearing lots of hats, etc.

There can be a multitude of reasons why things go sour, like today I just found out a developer who I thought was co-developing a certain high profile KS game isn't doing that anymore, mostly due to scheduling reasons.

Anyways, forgive my ramblings, just know that I'm still in the same boat sometimes, wondering why stuff is happening, and no matter how much I yell on the phone or write firm but persistent emails I never get an answer lol.

Also check out PLAYISM if you haven't already, ex-Atlus guys that localized Demon's Souls and such, they localize tons of Japanese indies and they deserve your love too. I know we're talking about devs that localize/publish indies in general but they are only about Japanese indies.
 
It was a combination of this and lack of interest from players. At that time I asked for players to submit levels, we got three or four submissions.

Between staying compliant with Nintrndo guidelines and the lack do interest, it didn't make any sense

Yeah, that makes sense. VVVVVV was pretty awesome on 3DS either way, what with the already-included content as-is.
 
I'm waiting for this to happen and NOA is already working on it.

The fact that Cave Story, Ikachan, VVVVVV and NightSky is an oversight. All previous eShop games should have automatically had communities established when the Miiverse went live.

I believe that for all future games, this will be the case.

I think they have a communication problem , maybe if tyrone is a aunthenticated miiverse user, he can give more direct insight over there, i read on their twitter that they have more communities comming soon.
 
Nayan says that Daisuke doesn't receive royalties from Cave Story? Maybe I read this wrong.

Wait, seriously? That's awful. Not a dime? Here's hoping that Playism deal is sweet.

He's Nayan from Playism, publishers of Kero Blaster. Hopefully you both have a pretty good idea of Pixel's royalties!
 
Nope, you didn't read it wrong. That's exactly what Nayan's saying, though he couched it with an "afaik."
He doesn't, afaik.
Not trying to get anyone in trouble here, would just like to know that at least some of the money from the dozens of times I've purchased Cave Story (no exaggeration) went to Pixel...
 
Daisuke has lived of off Cave Story since he quit his salaryman job--which I kept suggesting he do to make games on his own.

As someone else working with Daisuke, Nayan, should exercise more professional courtesy instead of spreading lies and couhing it with "afaik" by asking me directly, but I'll let him speak for himself here.

Nope, you didn't read it wrong. That's exactly what Nayan's saying, though he couched it with an "afaik."

Not trying to get anyone in trouble here, would just like to know that at least some of the money from the dozens of times I've purchased Cave Story (no exaggeration) went to Pixel...

As far as whether we're slow or not, depends what you define as slow. When the eShop was "new" to 3DS we released VVVVVV, Cave Story (eShop), NightSky and Ikachan in the span of a little over a year. Last year we focused on development and building out the engine to support true multi-platform releases in the future with a good framework.

We could announce games at the last-second and release, but then we'd be called out for not announcing them with enough time. How would you suggest we proceed? What would you do differently?

The thread was started on the premise that I have a negative opinion of a company, and I proceed to explain why I have this impression. It is an open invitation for anyone to share how they feel, and to correct any inaccuracies there are. Since my opinion is negative, obviously it would lead off that way. Any statement of opinion will be "biased", so that's irrelevant don't you think? If you feel that there are claims which are not true, wouldn't this be a good time to correct them? I certainly don't like repeating things which are untrue.

Nicalis is a unique position of having acquired a number of titles which are genuinely good and sometimes have pre-established fanbases. Yet the general sentiment from my experience is that people see the company as unreliable and slow. Whether you think this assessment is fair or not, it's a reputation the company has. If the reason this reputation was earned is because people are ignorant about the facts, then wouldn't it be in the company's best interest to ensure people who are interested in the company are less ignorant about what's going on?
 
No. I've bought games from them and enjoyed them. Have they communicated inconsistently and set uncertain expectations in the past? Yes, I think that's a fair criticism. However, from my experiences (Cave Story WiiWare, Cave Story +, and NightSky), I can say that I've been satisfied, and I would happily buy another game published by Nicalis.

I also don't think it's fair to condemn them in the title when that sentiment isn't reflected in your post. The actual post is more criticism than condemnation.
 

duckroll

Member
As far as whether we're slow or not, depends what you define as slow. When the eShop was "new" to 3DS we released VVVVVV, Cave Story (eShop), NightSky and Ikachan in the span of a little over a year. Last year we focused on development and building out the engine to support true multi-platform releases in the future with a good framework.

We could announce games at the last-second and release, but then we'd be called out for not announcing them with enough time. How would you suggest we proceed? What would you do differently?

Sure, everything is relative to perspective. That's totally fair. I don't think the choice for announcing releases is limited to "years before a game is ready to be released" and "the month before it is out" though.

I certainly don't want to come off as telling you how to do your job, especially without knowing all the factors which go into it, but as a fan observing the perception problem here, I would say it's probably a better idea to announce stuff when there is a certain level of progress on the development end which indicates a firm timeline can be made for the release window.

In the case of Guxt and Legend of Raven, I think you can see why it probably wasn't a great idea to get people excited when plans could change completely so quickly. Tweeting that Guxt had received a ESRB rating is basically telling fans that "it's dropping soon". Why do that if there was no intention of releasing that version at all? In the case of Raven, wouldn't it have made more sense to announce it when everyone was actually sure which platform(s) it would be released on? Announcing something for the 3DS only to cancel it a year later and announce it has moved to the Vita is pretty bad form. Setting up expectations and not delivering disappoints people who pay attention to announcements and are excited for what was promised.

To contrast the negative parts, I would say that the handling of Binding of Isaac Rebirth has been exemplary. The creator updates fans on progress from time to time, there is always something interesting and exciting shared about the development which reassures the people looking forward to it, and keeps them excited. Even though the game still has no release date, the PR cycle has been well handled. Granted, it's not always possible to have the developer or creator of a game to be that involved in the promotional process, but in those cases, it would definitely be better to not over-promise, and to announce stuff before anything is actually set in stone.

Those are just some of my honest thoughts, and I hope you don't take any of it the wrong way. I think almost everyone here would love to see the games Nicalis releases to succeed and not be plagued by bad press or various problems (delays, platform changes, bugs, etc) which aren't the fault of the design of the games themselves - which are often critically acclaimed and well loved.

Hopefully the infrastructure investments made on the engine and framework work out, and the upcoming releases are much smoother sailing. I think if a year or two from now, this thread topic is totally obsolete and no longer reflects how anyone sees Nicalis, that would be a win-win for everyone. The people looking forward to the games, the company itself, and all developers you work with. Best of luck!
 

thetrin

Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Where is this coming from? Do you have verifiable data that suggests this?

I'm not going to speak how much Daisukebe makes. But him and I are friends and business partners and continue to work together.

Then I stand mistaken.

Tyrone knows better than I do. Don't take my word as gospel.

Daisuke has lived of off Cave Story since he quit his salaryman job--which I kept suggesting he do to make games on his own.

As someone else working with Daisuke, Nayan, should exercise more professional courtesy instead of spreading lies and couhing it with "afaik" by asking me directly, but I'll let him speak for himself here.

No, you're absolutely correct. My apologies.

I was aware that Amaya-san had lived off of Cave Story for a while, but I must have been mistaken about the specifics.
 

petghost

Banned
seriously what the hell happened to legend of raven...

havent heard any news on it in months. it also doesnt help that they are choosing to port an outdated version of the game instead of the upcoming yatagarsu AOC.
 

tsab

Member
Their european release schedule is a joke, either delayed for years or never released.
I hope the 90's Arcade Racer isn't delayed.
 

Tizoc

Member
What was the last thing Nicalis released anyway?

No but that's probably one of the longest delay for no reason at all though....

Not really that would also apply on the other game that took 2 years to get released in EU.
 

Chopper

Member
Just because I don't post on NG doesn't mean we're not doing that.

Also that's not allowed on NG, if I remember the TOS correctly
Would you care to explain the radio silence on Cave Story+ that lasted 19 months between the US and the European releases? I tweeted and emailed in that time, trying to to establish any sense of progress, and never got a response. Then bam, an announcement two weeks before release.
 

ULTROS!

People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
I kinda remember Ignition Entertainment. I don't why though.

But then again, Ignition Entertainment actually releases things (well... Except for Dragon's Crown) despite a subpar job.
 

Dash Kappei

Not actually that important
They're the publisher for '90s Arcade Racer

Why the hell did the dev go with them, it's not like they'll offer great QA and help with getting certified or even market the damn game! On top of that the game will probably come over here in EU 6+ months after release

FUUUUUUUUUUUUU
 

tsab

Member
They're the publisher for '90s Arcade Racer

Why the hell did the dev go with them, it's not like they'll offer great QA and help with getting certified or even market the damn game! On top of that the game will probably come over here in EU 6+ months after release

FUUUUUUUUUUUUU

it was 1 dude and they offered to help publish
 

Dash Kappei

Not actually that important
it was 1 dude and they offered to help publish

I don't see how that contradicts anything I've said, in fact I've used *dev* and not *devs* on purpose. Nicalis is bad news, especially if you're European, and if it was up to them I would've never played LaMulana remake, best game to come out of Wiiware which was later published on those shores thanks to people who know how to to their job properly.
You only need to look at this thread to get an idea of the piss-poor attitude of their CEO.
 

Rubius

Member
It seem that Nicalis have a case of "Too many things". They work on 4-5 games currently including the remake of Binding of Isaac. I dont understand.
 
They are really bad, I can't recall the amount of delays and huge problems surrounding relatively simple games. It seems every single thing they put out is mishandled and bungled.
 

Shig

Strap on your hooker ...
- La-Mulana was developed by Nigoro, not Nicalis. Our job was to market and localize the game. If there were delays related to the development you'd be better off asking Nigoro
Nigoro said they were developing La-Mulana for WiiWare in Japan, which they did. It released and everything! You said you were going market and localize it, which you didn't. How, then, is the failure at Nigoro's feet?

If there is more to the situation, then you need to expound, because the basic facts we know don't serve at all to paint the picture you're apparently trying to paint.

Also: This ain't twitter, friend. Replies are much more readable when they come after the quote you're addressing.
 

sörine

Banned
I've been pretty happy with every Nicalis purchase I've made but their handling of the situation with La-Mulana was beyond terrible. There was a clear lack of support, correspondence and basic communication there and the embarrassing climax of Nicalis revealing the cancellation on twitter was incredibly disrespectful. After that I can't see why any Japanese developer would ever want to work with them again.
 

Dash Kappei

Not actually that important
Surprise surprise, 1001 Spikes is full of bugs on 3DS/WiiU, a patch has been promised in the next couple of days tho. Obviously, no EU release in sight.
 

DeBurgo

Member
kinda low on the list of shitty things but as long as people are complaining about Nicalis in this thread: Cave Story+ has had a broken achievement on steam since launch, I guess. nobody's really done anything about it for years. it's really annoying, and it doesn't seem like it should be so hard to patch (either by removing the achievement or by fixing it).
 
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