Can Crusher
Banned
I don't even know what to say, isn't this a big violation of human rights?
How long can the U.S stand behind this?
How long can the U.S stand behind this?
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Israel Admits Birth Control Program for Ethiopians (2010, new info 2013)
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Sickboy007
Member
Forever and ever.
Why? There was nothing offensive about what I said (unless you are an anti-semite) and nothing posted in this thread changes what I said. There's no "conspiracy" to eliminate Ethiopian Jews. What they were doing wasn't being explained well and that was the problem. It's a far cry from forced sterilization. If the government of Israel really wanted to get rid of these people why would they allow them into their country in the first place? Or is that just another clever Jewish conspiracy??
I think what is being described is an organized effort by some Israeli government body to reduce Ethiopian virility. Language like "they would breed like animals" kind of hints to that.
Whether or not that means Israel on the whole should be culpable, Who knows. It however, something to consider that they knew about it for a while without admitting it or compensating the victims.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
I'm surprised someone was brave enough to say this.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
Pure race program. "You're too brown, you can't really be Jewish!"
The "contaminated with diseases" is just the official answer, the real reason is racism, "unpure blood". Good ol religions.
The "contaminated with diseases" is just the official answer, the real reason is racism, "unpure blood". Good ol religions.
it's not like it's a first for them
noone ever tells them to fuck off so they think it's ok
Sho_Nuff82
Member
There is a sizeable chasm between "not explained well" and "this is an inoculation."
As to why Israel would do this, it strikes at the very heart of the matter being discussed in this thread. Attempting to have a democracy while simultaneously enforcing an ethnic/religious majority is hard work. As mentioned on the last page, many other countries have tried (and failed) in the past. The goal of government eugenics isn't genocide - if they wanted, they could round up and shoot every Ethiopian overnight - the goal is population control. Can't have this minority group outpacing us the old-fashioned way, or they may start affecting policy in a tangible way.
The galling thing is not just that this happened in Israel, it's that it's happening now, in 2013, and that the official response to end it only came about because of a whistle blowing news story put together by Israeli women's rights groups.
So no, there is no "conspiracy". This is blatant, in your face, we-don't-want-too-many-brown-people racism at work from a segment of the Israeli people in power over health policy.
An offended anti-semite appears!
Perhaps you are ignorant of the history of Ethiopian Jews versus that of the Palestinian people? It's two very different things to displace people from their land versus bringing and/or allowing people to enter your country en masse (see Operation Moses and Operation Solomon). In a way I'm glad people like you exist because you further justify the unrelenting defense of Israel with your unreasonable attacks on the Jewish state.
Really? Really?? Look I'll be the first to admit that integrating Ethiopian Jews into Israeli society hasn't exactly been easy but the idea that the Israeli government is deliberately trying to kill these people off is utterly ridiculous and completely overlooks the great efforts the Israeli government has gone to integrate the Beta Israeli's into their society.
It's ironic that you reply to me in this way after I explained why people view the actions of Israel with so much suspicion. I get it. I understand why you feel bitter towards Israel, but what you are insinuating is completely unreasonable. You would do better to wait until more information comes out about this story but I already know that won't stop you from accusing Israel of "human rights violations" again and again.
Go on.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Are you deliberately ignoring what I posted? I never claimed they are trying to kill them off. Involuntary birth control = population control. Do you honestly believe the official statement from a few years back that this staggering statistical discrepancy was due to brand preference alone? If not, how would you explain it?
Edit: segments of the US government have endeavored to make assimilation of Mexican immigrants as seamless as possible. There are ALSO vocal opponents to any kind of Mexican history being taught in Southwest American history classes, and more right wing factions that would prefer that "those people" are shot on sight at the border. As an American citizen, I am well aware of the divided political opinions that make up a country and the cognitive dissonance that comes along with it. America was guilty of the very same crimes, even after the Civil Rights Act. Why would the government try to limit the populations of people it had just legislated as equal? The answer may be far more complicated than racism, but the fact remains that it happened, and it's still happening in Israel.
Unless you have a counter source, you can knock off the counter-conspiracy victim complex, it adds nothing to the discussion.
Edit: segments of the US government have endeavored to make assimilation of Mexican immigrants as seamless as possible. There are ALSO vocal opponents to any kind of Mexican history being taught in Southwest American history classes, and more right wing factions that would prefer that "those people" are shot on sight at the border. As an American citizen, I am well aware of the divided political opinions that make up a country and the cognitive dissonance that comes along with it. America was guilty of the very same crimes, even after the Civil Rights Act. Why would the government try to limit the populations of people it had just legislated as equal? The answer may be far more complicated than racism, but the fact remains that it happened, and it's still happening in Israel.
Unless you have a counter source, you can knock off the counter-conspiracy victim complex, it adds nothing to the discussion.
I don't think he has the time to explain. Unrelenting defense of Israel is hard work.
Dude Abides
Banned
I'd been thinking that Israel critics cry wolf about this a bit too much, but here esquire is casually tossing the smear around.
Ignoring everything else that is hateful in your post, your characterisation of Ethiopian Jews as different and only entitled to being Israeli because they are allowed by other jews is pretty telling.
Oh come the fuck on.
Pro-tip: If you want to be taken seriously you'd better not fling shit like this casually.
50% of Israel is anti-Semitic, don't you know?
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-january-23-2013/circumdecision-5773---vote-or-chai
AppleSmack
Banned
Shit like this makes Israel a really hard country to defend. I usually support their military operations and right to self defence against attacks on their citizens but they really need to take a step back and look at their morality. Shit like "punishing" the palestinians with settlements cause they got UN recognition and sick birth control crap like this is just twisted and evli. I'm happy to hear that the harcore Israeli right wing has taken a hit in the recent elections.
Israel is the only country to go out of it's way to save a large community of black people from a war torn country and you people simply label Israel as Racist because of what 4 people did.... Next time someone is racist against blacks in America I think it we should create threads on forums relating all Americans to nazis and state that Americans have no morals.
I also like the guy who posted about the African migrants story on the streets of Tel Aviv.
You do know that Israel accepted refugees from Sudan ( a country who is officially at war with Israel) for over 10 years . The entire country of Israel fed them and nurtured them and accepted them with open arms, meanwhile all other surrounding nations didn't accept them at all. The deportations only started happening when the war in Sudan ended and it was safe to return but for some reason more and more migrants were flooding to Israel for work which then Israel disallowed. That's when the anti Israel sharks came out and started their entire OMG ISRAEL IS RACIST APARTHIED STATE 2.0 HURR DUURR nonsense.
The HORROR
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFhWkJQ_L5I
I also like the guy who posted about the African migrants story on the streets of Tel Aviv.
You do know that Israel accepted refugees from Sudan ( a country who is officially at war with Israel) for over 10 years . The entire country of Israel fed them and nurtured them and accepted them with open arms, meanwhile all other surrounding nations didn't accept them at all. The deportations only started happening when the war in Sudan ended and it was safe to return but for some reason more and more migrants were flooding to Israel for work which then Israel disallowed. That's when the anti Israel sharks came out and started their entire OMG ISRAEL IS RACIST APARTHIED STATE 2.0 HURR DUURR nonsense.
The HORROR
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFhWkJQ_L5I
AppleSmack
Banned
If I understood the article right it isn't as simple as 4 corrupt doctors. The birth control was a government sanctioned practice.
It even says "A government official has for the first time acknowledged the practice of injecting women of Ethiopian origin with the long-acting contraceptive Depo-Provera."
Clearly that's 4 individuals acting on their own.
Sometimes, news like these makes me feel like we should just nuke everything and start from scratch with a homogenized culture. Eventually, fragmentation will appear once more but this time perhaps even later. Such is the cycle of life where oppressed becomes the oppressor.
Keeping the minorities as minorities is the key fundamental here.
Keeping the minorities as minorities is the key fundamental here.
Okay, let's try something a little different.
There are less than 200,000 Jews of Ethiopian descent in Israel making up about 2% of the total population. How are they a demographic threat to the majority Jewish populations (Ashkenazi ~2.8 million and Mizrahi/Sephardic ~3 million that add up to about 97% of the total population) of Israel? Do you even know how many years it would take for Jews of Ethiopian descent to overtake the majority population or does doing the math not fit in with your blatant agenda?
Cultural/language barriers and negligence/apathy on the part of a few doesn't constitute the type of genocidal action you are insinuating. "Kill off" is the logical end of what you are suggesting since the population won't grow and eventually decline due to forced birth control, is it not?
...
Two questions, how would you describe granting permission for people to emigrate your country and do you think all people of a particular religion are the same?
I'm really sorry I'm not devoting the vast majority of my day to correcting the wrong opinions of a few idiots on a Video Game Message Board On The Internet™. Bless you for calling me out on this jorma, I really need to get my priorities in life sorted out
But I'm not wrong.
So you don't see any problem with lessening the numbers of a certain breed of people through a forced eugenics program unless it's a genocidal action?
I guess some jews are just more equal than others. What really scares (and disgusts) me is this sort of blind defense of the indefensible.
Eh I think the article is a bit overreaching and people here are naturally overreacting.
I don't think that this treatment is part of some government policy and I don't think the reasoning behind it is to destroy the Ethiopian population. This organization has discovered some foul play, perhaps some prejudice-linked medical treatment, but to go as far as saying they uncovered a secret eugenics program is pushing it.
I don't think that this treatment is part of some government policy and I don't think the reasoning behind it is to destroy the Ethiopian population. This organization has discovered some foul play, perhaps some prejudice-linked medical treatment, but to go as far as saying they uncovered a secret eugenics program is pushing it.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Are temporary Sudanese refugees a threat to long term maintenance of a semitic Jewish majority?
And I'll be the first to tell you, yes, America is a nation filled to the brim with racists and religious nutjobs. I embrace it. I shout if from the rooftops. What I don't do, when evidence of yet another backwards, racist American policy arises, is deflect the news by saying, "well, it's not like Israel isn't racist. And the Japanese. And remember all that money we gave to Pakistan?"
The first step for change is admitting you have a problem. Some posts here won't even concede that, even when faced with overwhelming evidence.
Edit: and Esquire, you are ignoring historical precedent here. I've never sat in on a policy discussion where someone made these kinds of decisions, but I imagine it involves some mathematics that with current birth rates, over x amount of time, that 2% will become 5%. And to someone in that room, that time and percentage was unacceptable, so you end up with policies like this. A minority need not become a political majority to become politically inconvenient. It's a fucked up way of thinking, BUT IT HAPPENS. Your incredulity is naive at best, it is well documented in American history.
I would suggest any country based on the right of return and an ethnic AND religious homeland would support the right of all people of those groups to live in the country. I would suggest that it should not be about being granted permission but claiming what the country of Israel says is their right. They are entitled to be there.
As for your second question, it is irrelevant. Of course all people are not the same just because they claim the same religion, but Israel is for Jews. The people in Ethiopia are Jews. Israel is not just for white Jews, or Semetic Jews.
I'm not saying that it is right or that Ethiopian Jews should be given birth control against their wishes. I'm trying to convince people not to overreact to this by accusing Israel of genocide and "human rights violations," when that is hardly the case here. Negligence due to racial/cultural bias? Maybe. Ethnic cleansing or genocide? Absolutely not.
But Israel *is* allowing them to emigrate as freely as economics will allow (their biggest concern is integrating people into society properly - I hope that you can at least understand that you can't just transplant people from one part of the world to another without any problems along the way). You make it sound like the government of Israel is deliberately trying to keep Ethiopian Jews out of the country *because* they are dark skinned when there is no evidence to support that claim. This is your own projection that you are applying to the situation. I strongly, strongly suggest you actually read up on the history of Ethiopian Jews before you make anymore comments in this thread.
Sorry, this is nonsense. Do you know who was opposed to Israel bringing the Beta Israelis to Israel in the first place? Israel's Arab neighbors. Now why do you think that is? There are definitely problems integrating Ethiopian Jews into mainstream Israeli society that stem from cultural differences but the government of Israel considers them Jews first and foremost otherwise they wouldn't be there at all.
Yes, read his post.
I'm 100% right on that call though. The only reason why he brought up the Palestinians was to remind people of Israel's actions against that population and contrast it to their perceived actions towards the population in this story so that people would view their actions now in the same negative light they view their actions against the Palestinians. It's a framing device and it's bullshit so I called him out on by pointing out his obvious biases.
Sickboy007
Member
edit: i'll make a new thread
Can you back that claim up.
He criticizes your way of arguing and you call him an anti-semite? That's pretty weird.
Deified Data
Banned
Bullshit, I'm an American and I disapprove of my government's trespasses - really ignorant to assume all of Israel supports this shit, though I think the amount who do would probably be uncomfortably high.
I would like to see some proof. There is both a claim of a memo sent out recently by the Health general and a news show made over a month ago that instigated the need for this memo.
I've been trying very hard to find either one using different language translation tools and search engines that specialize in Israeli languages but I'm not finding anything, yet.
I've been trying very hard to find either one using different language translation tools and search engines that specialize in Israeli languages but I'm not finding anything, yet.
I read it, and I don't see anti-Semitic sentiment. Please elaborate on your argument.
Deified Data
Banned
The government admitted to it.
Just did.
Well to say it was deliberate contradicts everything else about how Israel has approached this population so far. I say negligence/apathy because the people in charge probably thought offering birth control was a good idea but at the administrative level didn't care enough to overcome the cultural/language barriers to communicate exactly what they were doing.
What???
Exr
Member
I wouldn't say these events were due to negligence or apathy at all. These sound like pretty specific things carried out against specific people.
If Haaretz was a propaganda newspaper, they'd be pro-Israel and wouldn't publish anything like this.
Are you referring to the quote you replied to ?
I love how the people trying to downplay the govt sanction birth control are trying to re-write history with Israel accepting Ethiopians with open arms; they initially fought against their claims of being Jews; it took a long struggle for them to get the meager recognition they have now.
Like a previous poster said about, its all about admitting it so we can all be better and move on. Thats why the whole 'America is racist' example is interesting...the gains we've made have been because we've had to confront and deal with the past/present. When we want to make excuses and deny...well history eventually shows up what eventually happens.
Like a previous poster said about, its all about admitting it so we can all be better and move on. Thats why the whole 'America is racist' example is interesting...the gains we've made have been because we've had to confront and deal with the past/present. When we want to make excuses and deny...well history eventually shows up what eventually happens.
Link?
Barbacoatl
Banned
We should start a petition to change esquire's tag.
What an idiot.
What an idiot.
Vyse The Legend
Member
It's not genocide, but a racial bias, as you described it, makes this a very clear human rights violation. There's no way to spin it.
But what has this to do with being an anti-semite? Having a critical view (or even a biased if you want to) of Israel doesn't mean you'd also have a hatred for Jews.
As a former Jew, anti-Israel is not anti-semitism. Fuck off with that shit.
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