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[Cyan]

Stop being naive and read the thread.
People here are not disagreeing with the government. They're disagreeing with the country and its right to exist.

As for the 'anti-semitic' thing, often people start shouting about it before anyone even accuses anyone of being anti-semitic.

I stand behind my earlier posts that Israel gets harsher treatment and is more demonized collectively as a country. You might think that Israel is appalling but I think you will still find it hard to disagree with this. It is evident in this forum and in other places in the Internet.

This is not paranoia. I've been in this forum for a while and I know how Israel discussions always go.

If you want to disagree with things that individual posters have said, or mention a specific post that comes off to you as disagreeing with Israel's right to exist, do so. This kind of vague insinuation helps no one and is harmful to discussion.

 

[wildfire]

I believe someone made a nice summary of the past events that ties up a lot of the details that are hard to get behind a paywall and translation barriers.

1) This whole thing occurred in a non-governmental "transitory camp" in Africa meant to prepare these Ethiopians for immigration. It was not under governmental control and had no government oversight.
2) The treatment wasn't forced- a family orientation seminar in the camp strongly recommended the treatment and apparently it was heavily implied that the chances of being allowed to immigrate wold be much lower for those who foreswore the treatment (which is a bald faced lie), but as wrong as that was (and I'm appalled at the fact they'd resort to such action) no one was physically forced to take the shot (indeed only 30% took it).
3) The treatments were only continued in Israel because the Ethiopian patients came to clinics to continue the treatment- the doctors had no idea how the treatment was initiated and didn't question patients asking to continue an ongoing treatment.
4) Immediately upon the discovery of this whole affair the Israeli ministry of health ordered all medical practitioners to cease automatic continuation of birth control treatments and to interview all patients undergoing them, with translators if necessary, to make absolutely sure they know the full meaning and implications of the treatments and that they willingly consent to them before resuming treatment.

 

[Karma Kramer]

I believe someone made a nice summary of the past events that ties up a lot of the details that are hard to get behind a paywall and translation barriers.

Sources?

 

[Karma Kramer]

Israel is trying hard on making hitler look good

lol?

 

[Karma Kramer]

1) This is logically untrue. For one thing. "Anti-Semitic" refers to people not governments. It would have to be directed towards the Israeli people themselves not the Israeli government. An unfair attack on the Israeli government would be "anti-Israeli" not anti-Semitic.

For another, let's assume this is completely bogus. Let's assume for the sake of argument that it's a conspiracy theory absurdity on the same level of Obama was born in Kenya. Then let's change the facts around. Instead of "an [Israeli government] eugenics program" let's replace that with "9-11 was an inside job devised by the Bush administration", and "anti semitic" with "anti American"

If we do that your statement reads as follow: "Pretty much... hopefully more investigation will be pursued if 9-11 was an inside job devised by the Bush administration, but until there is evidence, acting like there is, could be considered anti American".

So how is this anti-American? It has nothing to do with the American people. It's purely a criticism - no matter how inane - of the government. In exactly the same way your statement has nothing to do with "Semitic" people.

2) There is evidence. The problem is that he (and it seem you now) have decided that little evidence means no evidence, and you've decided to turn the table on those using that evidence to decry them as racists. Do you realize both you and Qazaq have accused people of racism and bigotry for criticizing a government. This is a sad trope that unfortunately plagues basically every conversation I've ever seen about questioning Israel's questionable actions.

It makes it impossible to have a reasonable discourse on the subject and does nothing but solidify the opinions people already have about Israel. It's more knee-jerk than the knee-jerk reactions against Israel.

It's also so cliche that it appears that you, him, and other of the same position have arrived at this position, not because you've looked at the totality of the evidence and critically weighed the issue, but because you have an emotional disposition that you've allowed to be manipulated by the Israeli government's propaganda machine. That's why you're "drinking the Kool-Aid". You are ingesting what they are giving you without asking what is in it.

If Israel is doing some kind of wide spread eugenics, it would have to be something that civilians as a whole in Israel would be more aware of and protesting. Concluding or making sweeping generalizations about Israel being more evil because of THIS article would only have to be assumed because of some kind of bias. This bias COULD be anti-Semitic.

My position is that eugenics of any nature should be made known and extinguished. My response against some neogaffers deals not with their position on Israel as a whole but specifically their ability to conclude something so extreme. It's flimsy evidence for a government wide conspiracy of eugenics, its not flimsy evidence for some kind of problem going on, but I doubt this thread would be this many pages long if the thread title and exaggerations weren't so sensational.

 

[Freezie KO]

Ethiopian-born young woman crowned Miss Israel.

 

[Kinitari]

Ethiopian-born young woman crowned Miss Israel.

Nice story (ish). I mean, there were some bad/sad parts in it. And I am not 100% sure if I am fond of the woman, but I ain't mad at her.

 

[Magni]

why would it be when an mp in the UK can forced to apologise for stating facts...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21216801

better to ignore the story than be labelled an anti-semite / racist.

We really need anti-Zionist Jews to start speaking out loudly against Israel. Because any non-Jewish anti-Zionist will be automatically labeled anti-Semitic. Yes, the Holocaust was horrible beyond words, but that does not give you free reign to pull this shit. Holocaust victims have been rolling around in their graves for decades now.

 

[Dead Man]

Ethiopian-born young woman crowned Miss Israel.

Good to see. She seems a bit overconfident of her opinions, but other than that she seems pretty good.

We really need anti-Zionist Jews to start speaking out loudly against Israel. Because any non-Jewish anti-Zionist will be automatically labeled anti-Semitic. Yes, the Holocaust was horrible beyond words, but that does not give you free reign to pull this shit. Holocaust victims have been rolling around in their graves for decades now.

Nah, you would have to be an Israeli Jew to avoid that, Norman Finkelstein gets called an anti-Semite quite often.