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[Gotdatmoney]

Eh, the only Japanese support worth a damn are titles Sony isn't going to lose. They make so little of their sales in Japan its irrelevant and japanese third parties who want to sell their games internationally are not going to abandon the PS4 ever.

The Switch and the PS4 doing well is good for third parties. If the Switch is a success you are more likely to see games greenlit that may not have been able to find an audience on the PS4 alone. This is literally nothing to be afraid of.

Nintendo needs to focus on price, adoption and getting third parties on board.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

But why would Sony be worried of the Switch doing well? Sony have sold 50 million PS4, of which less than 4 million were sold in Japan. That's pretty awful already, the Switch has no bearing on their struggle in Japan this generation. Sony aren't concerned about the handheld market, just consoles, which are pretty much pointless in the current market. They should have been worried about mobile games 4 years ago, if they cared about the Japanese market, but they're making some strides to improve their standing there.

Mostly I don't see any reality where a machine that will be primarily advertised as a handheld in Japan would worry Sony any more than their already lacklustre performance in the home console market.

On the topic of games, if developers want to target the larger markets in the West, the PS4 is the obvious choice regardless of what happens in March. PS4/Switch seems to me to be the most lucrative place to out your games. Devs won't give up a 50m user Base if they're looking West.

Sorry about the editing.

The Japanese market is highly productive. A lot of titles that give Sony the edge in international markets, such as Metal Gear, Souls, and Final Fantasy, come from their domestic market.

I am not suggesting that Sony will lose these titles, but rather that developers will have more options on the table. This may come at a cost to Sony, and they may have less leverage up against rivals internationally.

Monster Hunter is a good example of a PlayStation-exclusive title which Nintendo pocketed, and will likely show up alongside Pokémon, Dragon Quest, Yokai Watch, and Mario on Switch. Other exclusives can and will go the same way, which is why I believe Sony should be/is worried.

I touched on this above briefly, unless the Switch is a massive massive hit Japanese developers that target the west won't drop the PS4 for it. Smaller, more niche games that don't particularly target the west? Possibly.

Monster Hunter was with Sony until the target market dried up and it wasn't in Capcoms best interest to keep it with Sony. It's not exactly a game that strikes glee in the heart of the average western consumer like it does in its home market.

I appreciate this thread is about Japan only but you can't view Japan in a vacuum when a massive portion of the market is outside it.

 

[truly101]

In some ways, there's nothing really Sony can do about it. The Switch should be a more attractive option in Japan where console gaming overall has declined, and I think it offers some interesting gaming options here in the states and elsewhere. There will be some console experiences that the Switch may be ill equipped to provide, so Sony and MS still serve a need. I think the problem will be if the Switch is successful that Sony tries to copy it and ignores what it does well. Competition and new ideas are good things for the industry as a whole

 

[Mr Swine]

I really really hope Switch becomes a big success for Nintendo. I really don't want the future to be Sony (and MS) only with consoles

 

[Jigorath]

Sony could never sell another PS4 in Japan and still likely sell 100m consoles WW. There's a reason why Sony geared the PS4 to a more Western-focused approach.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

I don't think Sony are strategically concerned with Japan, or have been for quite some time. PlayStation operates out of America now, and is focusing on western and emerging markets.

Then why would they ensure DQ returns to PS. Potentially go after MH. Sony recognises Japan as a notable market with great software outputs, but they also know they can't reverse the mobile effect. Just because of the latter doesn't mean they disregard the former.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

In some ways, there's nothing really Sony can do about it. The Switch should be a more attractive option in Japan where console gaming overall has declined, and I think it offers some interesting gaming options here in the states and elsewhere. There will be some console experiences that the Switch may be ill equipped to provide, so Sony and MS still serve a need. I think the problem will be if the Switch is successful that Sony tries to copy it and ignores what it does well. Competition and new ideas are good things for the industry as a whole

Let's hope this doesn't happen. Switch makes perfect sense for Nintendo. It probably doesn't make a lot of sense for PlayStation. The PS4 is the perfect device for Sony and it has served them very well.

 

[K' Dash]

Maybe if you guys weren't in such a hurry to shitpost, you'd see the part where the 3DS is sitting at over 21 million sales in Japan, on track to outsell the PS2. It's also barely down year over year, showing good late life legs. If the PS4 had those sales, we'd have a thread about how it's at 65 million sold through instead of 50. The market is declining, but it's still an important market for most Japanese publishers. Not everyone has the resources to adopt a global strategy like Square Enix. Most companies that are based in Japan are going to be heavily reliant on a platform with solid sales year after year. That's the 3DS right now. Hopefully it will be the Switch going forward.

Dude, stop making sense.

 

[Poetic.Injustice]

The average budget for a Switch game would be closer to that of a Wii U. The 3DS had the advantage of a cheaper budget for most developers. Japanese third parties will think thrice before committing to any exclusive experiences for the platform.

 

[RibMan]

What are your thoughts? Outside of the promise of access to international markets, what can Sony do to entice and retain Japanese third parties?

Quick thoughts:

1) Sony are in no immediate risk to lose third-party support in Japan. They (fortunately [for them]) have the largest installbase of gamers globally. Japanese publishers also like money, so they're not going to wake up in April and go "Oh sh*t the Switch is out what is PlayStation". They're going to support Nintendo because Nintendo does very well in Japan, and they're going to support PlayStation because Sony has millions of consoles in Japan and millions of consoles elsewhere.

2) You've made a lot of assumptions in your post. You're assuming that the Switch is a guaranteed seller because it's a handheld. I'm confident that the Switch can outsell the PS4 in Japan, but a handheld outselling a console in Japan isn't a headline. It's expected. That said, it's not a guaranteed seller. Big difference between an expectation and a norm.

3) Given that the Wii U failed to outsell the Wii, and given that the 3DS failed to outsell the DS, I'm not sure developers -- console or mobile -- are going to be interested in prioritizing a Nintendo platform. It's not good for business. Capcom has stated that they want to grow Monster Hunter in the West because they feel handhelds are limiting sales. I expect to hear more and not less of this next year. So in reality, it seems like it's not Sony that should be worried: it's Nintendo.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

The average budget for a Switch game would be closer to that of a Wii U. The 3DS had the advantage of a cheaper budget for most developers. Japanese third parties will think thrice before committing to any exclusive experiences for the platform.

I'm sure we'll see plenty of mobile ports and mid-tier titles with 3DS-level budgets.

 

[georly]

A lot is vague. The vita is the target platform for many Japanese games like Digimon: Cyber Sleuth, Hatsune Miku, Ys VIII, Danganronpa 3, etc. but these games have limited Western appeal. That could happen with certain Switch games too, no reason why not. But the next Final Fantasy, Resident Evil, whatever the hell From Soft makes, etc. are not going to target the Switch.

Resident evil and the souls games are huge in the west. I'm mainly talking about japan-focused IP, like dragon quest, monster hunter, etc. They'd likely make switch the lead, then port to ps4/pc (provided they didnt sign a deal with nintendo) so it can sell in the west also. Any game where the target audience is a western one will likely use PC or PS4 as the lead platform (unless the switch miraculously outsells PS4 in the west in its lifetime lol)

The average budget for a Switch game would be closer to that of a Wii U. The 3DS had the advantage of a cheaper budget for most developers. Japanese third parties will think thrice before committing to any exclusive experiences for the platform.

Just because the cup is bigger doesn't mean you have to always fill it to the top. Outside of mobile, there really will be no handheld device that can support smaller budget games. Switch is a perfect place for indies or smaller projects that want to be portable going forward.

 

[GOOCHY]

Hasn't Nintendo said that the Switch is a home console first and a handheld second? I'm sure we'll see more details in January but it seems to be like being a handheld is not the focus for this system. Battery life is going to be an issue.

 

[Poetic.Injustice]

I'm sure we'll see plenty of mobile ports and mid-tier titles with 3DS-level budgets.

A 3DS level art budget would be laughed off immediately by consumers if you look at the required asset quality in a AAA title game. Hell, even if you get mobile ports the polygon budget isn't cheap anymore.

It's the same problem the Vita had and why it failed.

 

[Breakage]

The Switch isn't portable in the same way that the 3DS and smartphone are. You can't discreetly slip it into your pocket. It will require the user to carry a bag around with them at all times. I just don't see Japanese consumers making the extra effort to lug a Switch unit around with them.

 

[dracula_x]

Sony should be worried about Japan specifically but world wide they're doing just fine which seems to be their main focus these days

Sony will be fine in Japan too

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1322421

Bloomberg: Sony's Fate/Grand Order (mobile game) making more than Pokemon Go in Japan

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1322850

Sony mobile announcements: Wild Arms, Arc The Lad, Disgaea, Square, 12+ games total

 

[GifGafIsTheBestGaf]

The Japanese market is highly productive. A lot of titles that give Sony the edge in international markets, such as Metal Gear, Souls, and Final Fantasy, come from their domestic market.

I am not suggesting that Sony will lose these titles, but rather that developers will have more options on the table. This may come at a cost to Sony, and they may have less leverage up against rivals internationally.

Monster Hunter is a good example of a PlayStation-exclusive title which Nintendo pocketed, and will likely show up alongside Pokémon, Dragon Quest, Yokai Watch, and Mario on Switch. Other exclusives can and will go the same way, which is why I believe Sony should be/is worried.

wouldnt that same argument apply to nintendo? why would they limit themselves to the small pool of nintendo when there's an untapped market for them to exploit? in their home market and outside of it.

now that those only 3ds/handheld devs have to make console-level games for the switch, why not port it to the other platforms as well? sony or ms could easily reach out and help them bankroll those ports to their platforms

 

[KillerMan91]

Well there's the potential that the Switches success in japan can result in more Japanese games making their way to the west on the platform. It's not how small the market is in japan, but how important some japanese publishers are to the west. We could see more partnerships with Bandai, Capcom, SE etc which is amazing for japan, but would also result in the West getting a lot of the games as a result, which will intern make Nintendo's platform more attractive.

And how important are Japanese publishers in west when it comes to pushing consoles? How many multi million selling games japanese third party publishers have released this gen in west on home consoles or on handhelds? Not too many. It's big western third parties that pretty much decide fate of every home console in west. As much as I love small niche Japanese stuff (like many here) those matter even less in west than those few Japanese AAA titles. Switch can certainly help these publishers to get more sales out of Japanese market and hopefully this leads more games greenlighted but in global scale Japanese games (outside of Nintendo itself) don't really matter that much so I don't see why Sony would care that much.

 

[Principate]

I think some people here are in for a rude awakening, a lot of Japanese publishers and developers prefer to make games for PlayStation systems even when it makes little financial sense. The 3DS has a 21 million user base for many years of it's lifespan the vita has received more Japanese in pure number of titles. The majority of that has moved to the PS4. The Switch will not have a 3DS to Vita ratio in user base. The PS4 will eat the switches lunch in terms of support by number of titles. The advantage the switch may have (which is a big may) is higher selling 3rd party titles. It will have higher selling titles by default because the PS4 will struggle to have a million seller whereas the switch will almost certainly have a few first party wise, but 3rd party wise it's a big question.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

A 3DS level budget would be laughed off immediately if you look at the required asset quality in a AAA title game. Hell, even if you get mobile ports the polygon budget isn't cheap anymore.

I don't think so, although it will depend on the game. Pokemon Stars should do quite well. A port of the 3DS version of Dragon Quest XI would do quite well. A port of Monster Hunter XX would do quite well.

Not every Switch game is going to be Breath of the Wild. Not even close.

 

[JetSetRadio]

Wasn't PS4 their first console with a delayed launch in Japan? They knew and it paid off.

 

[BuggyMike]

Japanese games haven't sold well in the west this gen. They're a largely irrelevant market. RE7 will likely continue this trend. Sony doesn't care about Japan beyond the free exclusives it provides because Xbox is dead over their, they didn't even launch the PS4 there in there same year as their major markets.

Many japanese games still matter to western gamers and having many (potentially exclusive) titles from certain pubs will inevitably make the platform more attractive as a whole.

Also this is a good point:

the 3DS is sitting at over 21 million sales in Japan, on track to outsell the PS2. It's also barely down year over year, showing good late life legs. If the PS4 had those sales, we'd have a thread about how it's at 65 million sold through instead of 50. The market is declining, but it's still an important market for most Japanese publishers. Not everyone has the resources to adopt a global strategy like Square Enix. Most companies that are based in Japan are going to be heavily reliant on a platform with solid sales year after year. That's the 3DS right now. Hopefully it will be the Switch going forward.

 

[Principate]

Many japanese games still matter to western gamers and having many (potentially exclusive) titles from certain pubs will inevitably make the platform more attractive as a whole.

Also this is a good point:

They don't matter to majority of Western gamers as much cap out at 4-5 million, whilst the major western title sell 10-20 million +

 

[dracula_x]

Really?

btw, ^ this for Japan only or WW?

 

[Oregano]

I don't think so, although it will depend on the game. Pokemon Stars should do quite well. A port of the 3DS version of Dragon Quest XI would do quite well. A port of Monster Hunter XX would do quite well.

Not every Switch game is going to be Breath of the Wild. Not even close.

It's honestly amazing that it's even an argument when the majority of Japanese PS4 games look like last gen games at best.

 

[Bustanen]

Unless Nintendo releases a cheaper, more portable Switch down the line I'm a little skeptical of their success in Japan.

Nintendo should be worried if they launch at the same price as 3DS.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Many japanese games still matter to western gamers and having many (potentially exclusive) titles from certain pubs will inevitably make the platform more attractive as a whole.

Also this is a good point:

Thats a poor point: PS4 would not be selling 50 million+ if it was a portable like 3DS which catered to the Japanese market.

Even niche devs are looking at global sales and while it is an important market its not the be all end all for the success of many games (especially when software sales are not cataclysmic).

 

[Vic]

The Switch might beat the PS4 in Japan, but the PS4 worldwide numbers will definitely matter to Japanese devs.
The Switch wont suddenly get exclusives just because.

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

I think gaming in Japan is declining I'm general.

 

[JetSetRadio]

Switch sales threads are going to be amazing.

 

[Koppai]

No...I am a hardcore Nintendo fan true and true but they won't catch up to PS4 unless it has a ton of games that the mass market want to play.

 

[RichiRamjag]

Switch isn't doing shit to ps4 over there that hasn't been done by mobile.

 

[Niks]

If anything, sony would benefit of switch doing well un japan. More games, healthier industry, better chance of multiplatform games etc..

 

[Fdkn]

On another point, I find the notion that every third party ps4 game is going to get a Switch version because they are similar enough techwise but at the same time every third party Switch game is not going to do the same with a ps4 version... amusing

 

[SomedayTheFire]

On another point, I find the notion that every third party ps4 game is going to get a Switch version because they are similar enough techwise but at the same time every third party Switch game is not going to do the same with a ps4 version... amusing

Happens every time in these sort of threads.

 

[Tadaima]

I touched on this above briefly, unless the Switch is a massive massive hit Japanese developers that target the west won't drop the PS4 for it. Smaller, more niche games that don't particularly target the west? Possibly.

Monster Hunter was with Sony until the target market dried up and it wasn't in Capcoms best interest to keep it with Sony. It's not exactly a game that strikes glee in the heart of the average western consumer like it does in its home market.

I appreciate this thread is about Japan only but you can't view Japan in a vacuum when a massive portion of the market is outside it.

This is the complete opposite of what happened: Nintendo snatched Monster Hunter at its peak. The target market had all but "dried up" – it was actually still growing.

Dragon Quest is an interesting title to look at also. The target market here hadn't started declining, but the DS was simply more appealing. It moved from PS2 to DS.

It is hard to ignore what we witnessed this week with Final Fantasy XV. Domestically, one has to wonder if it would have done better on 3DS. Since Final Fantasy is more of a showpiece for Square, I could see them looking at Switch very favourably. It makes business sense to recoup costs, and ports are a cheap and effective way to expand the reach of a title.

I don't want to say it's all doom and gloom for Sony, but they should definitely be worries. If there is a chance that these titles will fair better domestically on Switch than on PlayStation, there is a good chance that priorities will begin to shift.

No doubt, Nintendo will also be doing a lot to entice developers/publishers over in Japan. Perhaps they won't get the next Metal Gear, but I can see them eagerly tapping into the library of PlayStation exclusives.

 

[PdotMichael]

On another point, I find the notion that every third party ps4 game is going to get a Switch version because they are similar enough techwise but at the same time every third party Switch game is not going to do the same with a ps4 version... amusing

But that wouldn't give the Switch the edge over the PS4 wouldn it?

 

[get2sammyb]

Conversely, it may help the PS4. Monster Hunter, for example, is obviously a handheld franchise -- but if they can easily scale up a Switch version to PS4, why wouldn't they put the game on the platform knowing it's sold 50 million units globally?

 

[Principate]

This is the complete opposite of what happened: Nintendo snatched Monster Hunter at its peak. The target market had all but "dried up" – it was actually still growing.

Dragon Quest is an interesting title to look at also. The target market here hadn't started declining, but the DS was simply more appealing. It moved from PS2 to DS.

It is hard to ignore what we witnessed this week with Final Fantasy XV. Domestically, one has to wonder if it would have done better on 3DS. Since Final Fantasy is more of a showpiece for Square, I could see them looking at Switch very favourably. It makes business sense to recoup costs, and ports are a cheap and effective way to expand the reach of a title.

I don't want to say it's all doom and gloom for Sony, but they should definitely be worries. If there is a chance that these titles will fair better domestically on Switch than on PlayStation, there is a good chance that priorities will begin to shift.

No doubt, Nintendo will also be doing a lot to entice developers/publishers over in Japan. Perhaps they won't get the next Metal Gear, but I can see them eagerly tapping into the library of PlayStation exclusives.

Have you had a look what major 3rd party titles the 3DS has in comparison to the Vita and PS4. That alone should tell you how illogical your argument is. Japanese 3rd parties outside of the few that majorly benefit from the high userbase have all but abandoned it. What makes you think they'd want to move onto the switch enmasse when it most probably won't even do as well as the 3DS?

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

This is the complete opposite of what happened: Nintendo snatched Monster Hunter at its peak. The target market had all but "dried up" – it was actually still growing.

Dragon Quest is an interesting title to look at also. The target market here hadn't started declining, but the DS was simply more appealing. It moved from PS2 to DS.

It is hard to ignore what we witnessed this week with Final Fantasy XV. Domestically, one has to wonder if it would have done better on 3DS. Since Final Fantasy is more of a showpiece for Square, I could see them looking at Switch very favourably. It makes business sense to recoup costs, and ports are a cheap and effective way to expand the reach of a title.

I don't want to say it's all doom and gloom for Sony, but they should definitely be worries. If there is a chance that these titles will fair better domestically on Switch than on PlayStation, there is a good chance that priorities will begin to shift.

No doubt, Nintendo will also be doing a lot to entice developers/publishers over in Japan. Perhaps they won't get the next Metal Gear, but I can see them eagerly tapping into the library of PlayStation exclusives.

Are you going to ignore DQ returning to PS4?
I don't see why SE would be so concerned about the loss of 1 million sales to the point of considering a platform change to mobile when the foreign market attributes to a potential of 5 times that and goes towards home consoles. Like come on.

 

[Kathian]

Its one of these things that's difficult for Sony to do anything about. They might be forced into a third handheld if Switch eats away at console share.

 

[BuggyMike]

They don't matter to majority of Western gamers as much cap out at 4-5 million, whilst the major western title sell 10-20 million +

I mean, I don't know the sales data on specific games but I'll just take your word for it here. My original point was the potential for the system to have a more attractive catelogue of games as a whole, doing well in Japan will result in more (potentially exclusive) games coming over to the west by the bigger japanese publishers, which will in tern make for a more attractive library. These games may not be selling 10-20 million, but they at least hold mind share, and while one particular game may not make as big of a splash as a popular western title, it still is attractive in numbers.

 

[Vena]

heh

Declining franchise suffers declining sales. Meanwhile other IPs performing like on past consoles or even better.

In Japan? In Japan its a rare exception for anything to not have declined, this is especially true on the console front.

A 3DS level art budget would be laughed off immediately by consumers if you look at the required asset quality in a AAA title game. Hell, even if you get mobile ports the polygon budget isn't cheap anymore.

It's the same problem the Vita had and why it failed.

Nirolak touched on this months ago, but many 3DS games could easily be rendered at higher resolutions and look convincingly good (some touch ups wouldn't hurt). Bravely Default was used as the metric on this, and a lot of it comes down to stylization and the art. Design has come a long way from the GameBoy, we're not working with pixel sprites. Many productions have considerably better models and capabilities of texturing than the 3DS can handle/present.

 

[commish]

I think gaming in Japan is declining I'm general.

I would say it's transforming and moving away from traditional consoles. Mobile games are HUGE in Japan. IMO if your business model relies on traditional console/game sales in Japan, you are out of touch.

If I had to guess, I would say that Sony gives zero fucks about Nintendo and what Nintendo does. Nintendo hasn't shown the ability to be a factor in the gaming industry outside of its first party titles in decades. I will be buying a Switch and hope it is a big success, but I think it's a 50-50 chance it's just another Wii/Wii U - great first party games and that's it.

 

[wildfire]

Why do people still view Switch as Wii U's successor instead of 3DS.

It's very odd to see this sentiment in threads like this.

When the Switch was announced I made a thread specifically asking forumgoers if they view it as console handheld or hybrid and most people saw it as a handheld.

Who know how many in this thread participated in that thread but considering how many people replied we have a good sample to determine that the Switch is mostly seen as a handheld on this forum. Their logic to compare it to the Wii U instead of the DS is quite tortured.

 

[gtj1092]

On another point, I find the notion that every third party ps4 game is going to get a Switch version because they are similar enough techwise but at the same time every third party Switch game is not going to do the same with a ps4 version... amusing

I've pointed this out several times. I mean you can even look at ps4/x1 and they don't get the same games across the board.

 

[Principate]

I mean, I don't know the sales data on specific games but I'll just take your word for it here. My original point was the potential for the system to have a more attractive catelogue of games as a whole, doing well in Japan will result in more (potentially exclusive) games coming over to the west by the bigger japanese publishers, which will in tern make for a more attractive library. These games may not be selling 10-20 million, but they at least hold mind share, and while one particular game may not make as big of a splash as a popular western title, it still is attractive in numbers.

Not that much, XB360 did just fine without a successful push by the Japanese industry. Keep in mind your posting on gaf, this place cares far more about Japanese games in general than the majority of the market does. If Gaf mindshare mattered a damn Bayonetta 2 would have sold well and Bloodborne would have sold muuuuuuch better.

 

[Instro]

I expect it to handily beat the PS4, however dedicated handheld gaming seems to be on the decline in the Japan as well, so I'm not convinced that it will do any better than the 3DS did.

 

[John Wick]

Is there any reason the Switch won't dominate Japan?

Not one single reason. Depends on price and marketing. It could potentially sell 30-40 million easy in Japan alone

 

[Oregano]

Are you going to ignore DQ returning to PS4?
I don't see why SE would be so concerned about the loss of 1 million sales to the point of considering a platform change to mobile when the foreign market attributes to a potential of 5 times that and goes towards home consoles. Like come on.

Fucking hell you think Dragon Quest will get anywhere even close to 5 million in the West!?

Potential means nothing. Results are what matters.