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Joystiq will not be reviewing Nier
- Thread starter GDJustin
- Start date
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
Well if you want it I have no problem doing so. ;PVinci said:
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
The entire argument against McElroy's entry seems to rely on the premise that people with even a cursory interest in the game are incompetent as consumers and incapable of performing due diligence in researching the products they might want to buy.rocksolidaudio said:
It's not like S-E handed out an exclusive review to Joystiq. Consider the bigger picture here, guys.
ShockingAlberto
Member
This is nutsInfiniteNine said:
(I want a copy too)
EmCeeGramr
Member
Angry Grimace said:
well considering the sheer amount of people who buy games just because the box art looks cool or because it's on sale
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
No, but what does that have to do with anything?thetrin said:
thecouncil
Banned
thetrin said:
he absolutely would not. now, what is your point?
EDIT: haha. grimace and santa ico beat me. but, id love to know what his point was.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Amir0x said:
Mother 3 had effeminate men living in a giant pink seashell, and an angry cello that attacks you with his friends broken guitar and bashed drum.
Rushdie's Midnight's Children had a character whose giant nose allowed him to read minds and communicate with children his same age.
Suddenly a talking book and a hermaphrodite girl are ridiculous elements of a shit story? Yeah, okay.
Angry Grimace said:
Because plenty of great games have irritating side points. Hell, some great games have mondblowingly bad MAIN points, but we look past it to enjoy the rest of the game. Nier isn't a fishing game. The fishing has a flawed tutorial, but that doesn't make the game bad. In fact, the meat of Nier is really quite fun.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
"Sheer amount?"EmCeeGramr said:
I'd like to see some kind of statistic that would support that.
thetrin said:
It's all about context.
But since you're pretty persistent in your NIER defense forcing, please tell me why Nier will be only the second jRPG in 20 years that is telling a halfway decent story, with decent writing and characters, so that I can specifically eviscerate those points when I get it at $10. As I will, effectively.
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
Honestly, I have no idea. Maybe I should just give a copy of it or some other game in the free to a good home thread. I'll decide after I play the recent offerings on the game consoles~Vinci said:
I actually donate to charity pretty often, so that's already done, but I think I will pick up the OST.
Windom Earle
Member
Kainé is pleased with this thread:
Lots of undeserved hits for joystiq and some bad/good publicity for Nier. Time to give it a rest now I guess
Lots of undeserved hits for joystiq and some bad/good publicity for Nier. Time to give it a rest now I guess
EmCeeGramr
Member
this is totally unrelated but i just remembered that time that one joystiq dude wrote like a ten paragraph post about why twilight princess "fell flat"
-the trees and leaves in the woods are brown
-you can't read the signs by looking at them because the textures are bad, so nintendo had to design a terrible and unforgivable "press button to read sign" system to overcome this
then when people pointed out how stupid it was the dude actually wrote a new post directed at people in the comments section saying "stop posting press screenshots showing that the signs aren't written in english anyway and are perfectly defined, they're fake"
-the trees and leaves in the woods are brown
-you can't read the signs by looking at them because the textures are bad, so nintendo had to design a terrible and unforgivable "press button to read sign" system to overcome this
then when people pointed out how stupid it was the dude actually wrote a new post directed at people in the comments section saying "stop posting press screenshots showing that the signs aren't written in english anyway and are perfectly defined, they're fake"
Rahxephon91
Banned
lol.Kyoufu said:
I'd still like to get my question answered though. :/Llyranor said:
If he has such respect for his audience and realizes what sway he has with a lot of them I would expect him to give a game a 'fair shake' before deciding for himself and for his readers, by whatever perceived authority he has (and maybe reinforces, "as reviews editor"), that it is not worth their time. With little support for his position.
If the fishing is an example for all the things that are wrong with the game, I would like to have those things described in detail. What are they, why are they bad. How do I feel about something, why do I feel about something. (The writer of the NYT review that has been posted here didn't sufficiently justify his position either, btw.) It's simple and it's only fair to the reader. What he did though at best wasted their time (which is ironic, considering the reason for the write-off) and at worst convinced them that it's garbage because of a relatively small issue.
Vinci said:
It's natural to mentally do that, since it features almost none of the problems of virtually all jRPG storytelling! (now this is really getting off topic)
We'll come back to Nier and my thoughts on it in a few months, since it's sure to sell like 4 copies in the USA and it'll be $10 in a year or so. It's also economically smart to do this!
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Amir0x said:
1) The main character tends to take a lot of side quests from people that have nothing to do with his main quest, and Grimoire Weiss (the talking book that acts much like D's hand in Vampire Hunter D) tends to ask the same questions an outsider watching the game would ask: "why are you taking this quest? What is the point of this? You're wasting time." The conversations take place as you're traveling around, and they tend to be both humorous and build a rapport between the two characters. Weiss is not just a Navi character. He's a pretty bright part of the general dialogue.
2) There's a mystery that I haven't quite unraveled, that has to do with the distant past (our near future) involving (seemingly) the main character and his daughter. When the game first starts, loading screens tend only to be diary entries written by the daughter in the present day of the game, but soon they're interspersed with what seem to be medical entries dated 2016-2020 (1300 years before the main game takes place). There's a great trickle of interesting but seemingly unconnected story that's slowly being uncovered as I venture forth in the game.
3) The story is unrelentingly bleak. I don't mean violent, and I don't mean savage. I just mean bleak. There's an element of hopelessness that is missing from a lot of JRPGs, and it's very refreshing.
4) The story is, at its core, a touching connection between a simple man trying desperately to save his dying daughter. It's not overly soppy, and the player is never beat over the head with it, but the more time you stay away from your house adventuring, and the more you read diary entries in the loading screen, the more you realize that helping and trying to save your daughter is synonymous with leaving her alone to fend for herself. Being a good father essentially means being a bad father (which, having grown up with a father who traveled 3 weeks out of the month, is a very essential dichotomy I know all too well).
I'm not too far into the game, so I'm still not into the meat of the game, but that's what has gotten me so far.
Fimbulvetr
Member
Cep said:
It's like the scene of a horrible car accident.
Amir0x said:
I think the only thing you and I can agree on is how stinky FFXIII is, but shit, fuck it, I know you're the hardest guy to please but I'm going to go out on a limb and say thoughts of "I should've spent this $10 on weed instead" will not be in your head when you finally play the game.
Rahxephon91
Banned
I await the coming months.
thetrin said:
You're reflexively arguing with people criticizing Nier but you're not into the meat of the game and you're not very far? Trin...
Anyway, not much to say about your points (since I haven't played the game), only to say it doesn't really show anything that suggests the storytelling is somehow of a higher quality than all other jRPGs (which have the storytelling I hate). It's bleaker, which is not synonymous with "higher quality" (sorry, Western Developers).
But all this, we shall see later. Give me an IOU on the debate in some "LTTP" thread.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Amir0x said:
I'm not arguing with people criticizing Nier. Please go back and read what I've said. I'm arguing ONLY with people who have not played it, and then build opinions about the game without any sufficient evidence.
When Rahxephon said he had played it, and thought the gameplay was weak, I said that his opinion was different from mine, BUT THAT IT WAS FINE.
I have no problem with people not liking the game. I have a problem with 1) people not following basic instructions and then faulting the game for their own idiocy and 2) people not playing the game at all, and then forming ridiculous opinions.
I also said nothing about the bleak atmosphere being of a higher quality that a world of hope. I merely said it was refreshing to see a world like this come from S-E.
Let's not kid ourselves, though. You and I RARELY agree on anything. I still don't understand how anyone could dislike Killer 7.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Amir0x said:
Why on Earth would anybody try to argue with /convince somebody who had already made up their mind about a game before they even touched it? That would be the cliched beating ones head against the wall.
Hey, you don't want to play the game...that's cool.
Alright. Fair enough. I think it's perfectly fine to form an opinion that Nier isn't very good, just like it's fine to form an opinion that it is good... even if you haven't played it in both cases. There is enough evidence for the fire in either case.
I wonder that all the time in these types of threads... but, you misinterpret intent. I am merely intimately familiar with my tastes, and know what I like and don't like about games. Therefore, it is extremely rare for me to misjudge some game so much that I end up liking it.
That is not the same as making up my mind about something before I touch it. It's simply being educated on the subject enough to know whether it is intelligent to purchase it or not. Since I know my tastes, and know that Nier is in odds with much of it, what purpose would there be for me to buy it at a high price? Doesn't make much sense does it?
But my mind is not made up. It's simply aware of what the game is.
Wandering Wind said:
I wonder that all the time in these types of threads... but, you misinterpret intent. I am merely intimately familiar with my tastes, and know what I like and don't like about games. Therefore, it is extremely rare for me to misjudge some game so much that I end up liking it.
That is not the same as making up my mind about something before I touch it. It's simply being educated on the subject enough to know whether it is intelligent to purchase it or not. Since I know my tastes, and know that Nier is in odds with much of it, what purpose would there be for me to buy it at a high price? Doesn't make much sense does it?
But my mind is not made up. It's simply aware of what the game is.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
thetrin said:
Hm. It's just that...hm. Well. Good day, sir.
Let me see if I've got this straight:
1) People who've never read Joystiq before have decided they'll never read it. Okay.
2) Folks who never read the site seem to think Joystiq gives scores to the games it reviews. Hmm.
3) Folks are jumping all over someone for giving an account of their experience with a game, not a review of the game. Uhh.
4) This is all over a universally acknowledged lame fishing minigame in a game most of us will never play. Seriously?
1) People who've never read Joystiq before have decided they'll never read it. Okay.
2) Folks who never read the site seem to think Joystiq gives scores to the games it reviews. Hmm.
3) Folks are jumping all over someone for giving an account of their experience with a game, not a review of the game. Uhh.
4) This is all over a universally acknowledged lame fishing minigame in a game most of us will never play. Seriously?
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Id love to like Killer7, I just need somebody who knows wtf is up with that game to walk me trough it, lol
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
conman said:
The fishing mini-game is entirely serviceable. I blame the incorrect tutorial.
Raging Spaniard said:
It's a giant metaphor for the constant political, social and economic struggle between The East and The West.
Enjoy!
thecouncil
Banned
conman said:
these are the reasons why im starting to LOVE this thread.
SiegfriedFM
Member
Okay, quick review.
Nier is an action RPG with heavy DMC-style gameplay influences, with added bits of Monster Hunter/Zelda/Dodonpachi. It has spectacular music, decent characterization and neat control. Presentation-wise, it's what Shadow of the Colossus would be if someone made a more traditional game out of it and gave it "value for money".
Downpoints are the crappy fishing, relatively few distinct mobs and Kaine's ridiculous swearing.
I'd say 8/10, and that's with appreciating games that try to do things differently.
Nier is an action RPG with heavy DMC-style gameplay influences, with added bits of Monster Hunter/Zelda/Dodonpachi. It has spectacular music, decent characterization and neat control. Presentation-wise, it's what Shadow of the Colossus would be if someone made a more traditional game out of it and gave it "value for money".
Downpoints are the crappy fishing, relatively few distinct mobs and Kaine's ridiculous swearing.
I'd say 8/10, and that's with appreciating games that try to do things differently.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
All I've learned from this thread is that if I do play the game and decide to stop, I sure as shit won't say anything on GAF about it. This particular defense force is kind of creepy.
pancakesandsex
Member
Amir0x said:
Where did you wind up buying it? I'm looking for a good deal.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
RiccochetJ said:
If you decide to stop playing because you don't like it, I see nothing wrong with that. Now, if you stop because you're unable to walk over to a red X and press O to fish...
pancakesandsex said:
$16 on iTunes : http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/nier-gestalt-nier-replicant/id366643025
pancakesandsex
Member
Sacha said:
I don't do itunes sadly, but that is a good deal!
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
RiccochetJ said:
You don't really understand. I'll explain.
You, as a consumer, can buy a game, dislike it and never play it again. You can tell a million people that you thought it sucked.
Now, you as a paid professional, do not have that right. You owe it to the creators of the game, a team that consists of dozens of hard-working people, to actually sit down, shut up, and earn your damn paycheck. Putting up little disingenuous videos (I don't believe that a gamer of any number of years couldn't figure out a mini-map) to get some laughs at the expense of a game is the work of hacks.
Princess Skittles
Prince's's 'Skittle's
You know, I really don't think this is a "defense force" for the game itself.. it's just an "attack force" on the this particular media outlet's handling of it.RiccochetJ said:
Though I'm sure a couple of the game's fans have done their damage, it is GAF, after all.