Devilgunman
Member
It was mind boggling already that MS released Xbone in Japan. Should have just sticked with US and UK.
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Just 99 Xbox Ones were sold in Japan last week
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Ludger Kresnik
Member
Yikes.
MiketheBSG
Member
LMAO at all the responses I got about the ethnocentric comment. I wasn't expecting to get mobbed by responses. God I love NeoGAF. All good points though.
In case you didn't see the chart Rymuth posted earlier here is how XB1 sales compare to its predecessors in Japan
Or perhaps you don't like charts how about NDP_Muclair's summation
So even by Xbox in Japan numbers it is doing much worse. Can we please stop dismissing this is as business as usual when it's factually not?
Another48Hours
Banned
In case you didn't see the chart Rymuth posted earlier here is how XB1 sales compare to its predecessors in Japan
So even by Xbox in Japan numbers it is doing much worse. Can we please stop dismissing this is as business as usual when it's factually not?
It's still business as usual. Guess what other two companies are doing much worse than their predecessors? Sony and Nintendo. You can't leave out the failing console market if Xbox one sold original or 360 numbers, it would have actually been the first Xbox to be competitive. That is insanity in itself.
Business as usual.
In case you didn't see the chart Rymuth posted earlier here is how XB1 sales compare to its predecessors in Japan
Or perhaps you don't like charts how about NDP_Muclair's summation
So even by Xbox in Japan numbers it is doing much worse. Can we please stop dismissing this is as business as usual when it's factually not?
But it's been selling like shit since right after launch, right? Didn't it have months where it sold in the 200s? If so it dropping to 99 isn't shocking or really setting up much new discussion, the XB1 tanked super hard in Japan, we already know that. I guess it's still neat to see how much less it's selling but I think most people were prepared for this outcome. It'll probably have a month where it sells even less, if the charts even track that low.
In case you didn't see the chart Rymuth posted earlier here is how XB1 sales compare to its predecessors in Japan
Or perhaps you don't like charts how about NDP_Muclair's summation
So even by Xbox in Japan numbers it is doing much worse. Can we please stop dismissing this is as business as usual when it's factually not?
You are completely ignoring any changes in the overall console market for Japan and how the other consoles are performing in comparison.
Nah, the joke is the struggle for XB1 to hit 100 now. One vs 100. There you go.
Another48Hours
Banned
Huh??? This thread would not be here if it was up.
Numbers are far worse then the 360's, but that's hardly surprising.
360 had a pretty decent push early on giving Japanese players a reason to buy the damn thing.
When it comes to Xone, all Microsoft did was give all Tier2 countries the finger and tell them to fuck off. Tier2 countries responded in style.
360 had a pretty decent push early on giving Japanese players a reason to buy the damn thing.
When it comes to Xone, all Microsoft did was give all Tier2 countries the finger and tell them to fuck off. Tier2 countries responded in style.
DriftingSpirit
Member
It sold 300 units at this same point last year according to Media Create.
Suzushiiro
Banned
Yeah, I'm wondering how the decline from 360 to XBone compares with the decline from PS3 to PS4. I'm guessing that Xbox's decline is still proportionately larger due to launching a year later than Playstation rather than a year earlier, lack of price advantage, and no Japanese moneyhats, but it probably doesn't look quite as catastrophic when viewed through that lens.
Specifically, without bothering to run numbers myself I would guess that (relative to total Japanese home console install base for the generation) the XBone is probably about at the same level as the original Xbox. Wouldn't be surprised if I was wrong on that, though.
Insane Metal
Member
Holy shit.
It's actually been steadily declining in sales but the drop in sales this month is a staggeringly large MoM drop (%age wise) compared to what we've seen outside of launch month for the console. In other words it shows a sharp decline in the already anemic demand for the system.
The PS4 is currently tracking dead even with the PS3 in Japan
So no I'm not the one ignoring trends in the market for the country I currently live in that would be you two. Do us all a favor and stop spreading FUD
As shown in the chart above the PS4 is currently tracking at PS3 numbers so there is no decline. The WiiU has declined but the XB1 is still a significantly lower % of total platforms sold at same LTD as 360 in Japan. It is indeed a MASSIVE drop in market share in the country. Literally an order of magnitude lower. As far as the OG Xbox goes as shown in the chart I posted above
It is essentially the same story: a massive gap in units sold and % of marketshare albeit not quite an order of magnitude lower. So, no, your guess is wrong.
Another48Hours
Banned
It's actually been steadily declining in sales but the drop in sales this month is a staggeringly large MoM drop (%age wise) compared to what we've seen outside of launch month for the console. In other words it shows a sharp decline in the already anemic demand for the system.
The PS4 is currently tracking dead even with the PS3 in Japan
So no I'm not the one ignoring trends in the market for the country I currently live in that would be you two. Do us all a favor and stop spreading FUD
As shown in the chart above the PS4 is currently tracking at PS3 numbers so there is no decline. The WiiU has declined but the XB1 is still a significantly lower % of total platforms sold at same LTD as 360 in Japan. It is indeed a MASSIVE drop in market share in the country. Literally an order of magnitude lower. As far as the OG Xbox goes as shown in the chart I posted above
It is essentially the same story. So, no, your guess is wrong.
You are making your own fantasy here.
Only recently has the Ps4 tracked with the ps3 and trends will eventually have it fall back behind.
The Wii u is the leader and doing less than the Wii u.
Xbox 360 opened less than the Xbox, it got a little boost near launch due to some games before it died again.
All 3 Xbox console sales are basically frontloaded for the most part with no legs.
Xbox one is following the same trend, minus the outlier if the 360 being certain games and a year head start. If contraction had nothing to do with anything the Wii u would be hiher, the Ps4 wouldn't have under reformed until now, and the Xbox would be higher as well. The Xbox has the same issue Wii u and ps4 have, contraction, otherwise were are all the Wii,360,ps3 buyers at? You'd think at launch a percent f them would buy the new consoles, that didn't happen.
In fact ratios are similar.
slavesnyder
Member
Japan XboxOne: PS4 ratio is about 1:37
For reference: This is 1:35
For reference: This is 1:35
The Mad Draklor
Member
The thing is that the PS4 didn't have many games that catered to the Japanese audience in 2014, which explains why it fell behind the PS3 that year. In 2015, it received substantially more Japanese-centric games, allowing it to edge the PS3's performance launch-aligned. Looking at the releases for this year, the PS4 should be able to top its 2015 sales easily, especially with the likes of FFXV and Persona 5 coming out in the summer.
Another48Hours
Banned
It's possible for your last point, we will have to see.
Your first point doesn't work though, I doubt Japanese games had much real impact as you imply since launch. I mean look at the Vita, it had those, was in a better part of the Japanese industry, and it's launch window sells were meh even before cost for thing like mem cards set in. Before its competitor got a huge boost and steamrolled it.
The Mad Draklor
Member
My first point does work because unlike the Vita, the PS4's Japanese game offerings were nearly non-existent in 2014. The Vita had multiple problems of its own: it blew its load too early, the memory cards costed too much, the 3DS costed less, etc.
mrmickfran
Member
The 360 actually breached 1.5 million.
That Vesperia/Lost Odyssey/Blue Dragon combo made a difference. Who would've thought.
Facts + Charts = Fantasy? I must admit that's a new one.
The PS4 was tracking pretty damn close to the PS3 for the majority of its time in the market. The issue was that there were very few games that appeal to the Japanese market in release So the demand fell after the release burst. If you look at the timeline the sakes started to increase substantially when JP focused games like Yakuza, Dragon Quest Heroes and MGSV released and this continued until the current situation where it has now caught up to the PS3 completely. As far as "it will eventually fall behind" we have 0 data to show that. The rate of sales have been increasing not decreasing. Furthermore this year will see a substantial increase in Japanese game releases. There is literally nothing to indicate the sales will be slowing. In fact it goes against the trend we've seen this far. The data/chart speaks for itself.
I assume you mean the Wii u is doing less than the Wii. Well no shit. That's the case literally everywhere. The Wii expanded the market to an audience that is mostly no longer interested in console games both in Japan and the ROTW. Even still WiiUs market share is significant in Japan despite being a decrease over the freakish success of its predecessor. By all accounts,unlike the ROTW, the WiiU has been a success in Japan for Nintendo.
How dies this at all change the pint that the XB1 is selling a fraction of the amount of either of its predecessors? It doesn't. When looking at the performance of both previous Xbox consoles and comparing them to the XB1 its night and day. The XB1 has failed to sell LTD as much as the launch week of its predecessors. Yet you want to blame this on a market shift when neither of its competitors have exhibited the same gargantuan drop off in sales and you say I'm the one making up "fantasies."
This doesn't change the fact that it is selling significantly less than either previous Xbox consoles post release. Did you even look at the graph? While the trajectory of the original Xbox is similar with a flat plateau occurring shortly after release there was still a notable period of growth and a larger number of sales in total. Looking at the 360 we see an extended period of sales growth before its plateau. Looking at XB1 not only does it sell a fraction of the units as its predecessors on release but sales immediately collapse after that. That's anomalous behavior compared to the previous trends for the brand.
No if contraction explained the massive drop off in sales we see with the XB1 then we would've observed similar drop offs with the competing platforms when in reality that gas not occurred. The XB1 is an outlier and to dismiss this as a sole product of market changes is absurd. Microsoft has failed miserably at creating a compelling product for the Japanese consumer. Far more so than either prior Xbox platform. This has resulted in a staggering decrease in sales and marketshare in the region.
No they aren't. At this point in the console lifecycle the xb1 possesses a fraction of the marketshare that the 360 did. The XB1 even has less marketshare than 360
S3 when looking at LTD figures for the region. PS3 @ 6.35 million and 360 @ 1.6 million means a ratio of 4:1 compared to XB1S4 where XB1 has sold 65k to PS4's 2.4 million which is a whopping 37:1 ratio. If we go by launch aligned dates for PS2 and OG Xbox it too had much more of a market presence than XB1. PG Xbox sold ~500k units in its first two years compared to PS2's 4.25 million in its first two years. That's a margin of ~8.5:1. Significantly less than the 37:1 for PS4:XB1. Since the original Xbox launched long after PS2 did in Japan that skews the figures when simply comparing market totals for Xbox ltd. Even ignoring the launch differential and taking both platforms figures when OG Xbox was at 2 years in Japan in that comparison the XB1 still has less marketshare % than PS2:XBX (34:1). Furthermore the original Xbox's sales did not fall into double digits until after the 360 launched in Japan.
So in summation
- PS4:XB1 LTD = 37:1 marketshare
- PS3:360 LTD = 4:1 marketshare
- PS2:XBX launch aligned = 8.5:1 marketshare
- PS2:XBX at XBX 2yr = 34:1 marketshare
Yea clearly the sales for XB1 are normal and I'm creating a fantasy where in they are underperforming.
The fact is that it is in a much worse position than either of its predecessors in the region both in units and marketshare which would indicate it is not due to "market shifts toward mobile/handheld" no matter how much you wish it to be. No amount of FUD will change that.
Unknown Soldier
Member
What's funny is people are using almost the same arguments for why the Bone is failing in Japan for why the Wii U was failing prior to the PS4's launch. Then the PS4 showed up and proved that it wasn't because the console market is dying, it's because nobody wanted a Wii U.
The market in Japan has shifted quite a lot towards mobile, but 2016 will prove that there's still a strong console market there when there are also games JP players want to play.
The market in Japan has shifted quite a lot towards mobile, but 2016 will prove that there's still a strong console market there when there are also games JP players want to play.
J
Jpop
Unconfirmed Member
But the console market is dying and the PS4 isn't changing that.
There isn't a strong console market.
slavesnyder
Member
What's the opinion about Cuphead here concerning Japan?
I am not asking if this game will turn the tides, but if it could please Japanese.
It's looking handdrawn and it moves, so it's kind of like anime, so they could be interested? Will this be promoted/getting a boxed release in Japan?
I know it's not really anime, but the artstyle of old, american cartoons from the golden era, but it seems charming, quirky, arkady and playful.
I am not asking if this game will turn the tides, but if it could please Japanese.
It's looking handdrawn and it moves, so it's kind of like anime, so they could be interested? Will this be promoted/getting a boxed release in Japan?
I know it's not really anime, but the artstyle of old, american cartoons from the golden era, but it seems charming, quirky, arkady and playful.
plasmawave
Banned
Ayato Kanzaki
Member
With such a small install base, most stores probably aren't bothering to devote any of their shelves to XBO games or hardware. Most sales are probably done via amazon.jp.
So the XBO suffer from a visibility issue on top of the rest.
Another48Hours
Banned
listen.Facts + Charts = Fantasy? I must admit that's a new one.
The PS4 was tracking pretty damn close to the PS3 for the majority of its time in the market. The issue was that there were very few games that appeal to the Japanese market in release So the demand fell after the release burst. If you look at the timeline the sakes started to increase substantially when JP focused games like Yakuza, Dragon Quest Heroes and MGSV released and this continued until the current situation where it has now caught up to the PS3 completely. As far as "it will eventually fall behind" we have 0 data to show that. The rate of sales have been increasing not decreasing. Furthermore this year will see a substantial increase in Japanese game releases. There is literally nothing to indicate the sales will be slowing. In fact it goes against the trend we've seen this far. The data/chart speaks for itself.
I assume you mean the Wii u is doing less than the Wii. Well no shit. That's the case literally everywhere. The Wii expanded the market to an audience that is mostly no longer interested in console games both in Japan and the ROTW. Even still WiiUs market share is significant in Japan despite being a decrease over the freakish success of its predecessor. By all accounts,unlike the ROTW, the WiiU has been a success in Japan for Nintendo.
How dies this at all change the pint that the XB1 is selling a fraction of the amount of either of its predecessors? It doesn't. When looking at the performance of both previous Xbox consoles and comparing them to the XB1 its night and day. The XB1 has failed to sell LTD as much as the launch week of its predecessors. Yet you want to blame this on a market shift when neither of its competitors have exhibited the same gargantuan drop off in sales and you say I'm the one making up "fantasies."
This doesn't change the fact that it is selling significantly less than either previous Xbox consoles post release. Did you even look at the graph? While the trajectory of the original Xbox is similar with a flat plateau occurring shortly after release there was still a notable period of growth and a larger number of sales in total. Looking at the 360 we see an extended period of sales growth before its plateau. Looking at XB1 not only does it sell a fraction of the units as its predecessors on release but sales immediately collapse after that. That's anomalous behavior compared to the previous trends for the brand.
No if contraction explained the massive drop off in sales we see with the XB1 then we would've observed similar drop offs with the competing platforms when in reality that gas not occurred. The XB1 is an outlier and to dismiss this as a sole product of market changes is absurd. Microsoft has failed miserably at creating a compelling product for the Japanese consumer. Far more so than either prior Xbox platform. This has resulted in a staggering decrease in sales and marketshare in the region.
No they aren't. At this point in the console lifecycle the xb1 possesses a fraction of the marketshare that the 360 did. The XB1 even has less marketshare than 360
If we go by launch aligned dates for PS2 and OG Xbox it too had much more of a market presence than XB1. PG Xbox sold ~500k units in its first two years compared to PS2's 4.25 million in its first two years. That's a margin of ~8.5:1. Significantly less than the 37:1 for PS4:XB1. Since the original Xbox launched long after PS2 did in Japan that skews the figures when simply comparing market totals for Xbox ltd. Even ignoring the launch differential and taking both platforms figures when OG Xbox was at 2 years in Japan in that comparison the XB1 still has less marketshare % than PS2:XBX (30:1). Furthermore the original Xbox's sales did not fall into double digits until after the 360 launched in Japan.
The fact is that it is in a much worse position than either of its predecessors in the region both in units and marketshare which would indicate it is not due to "market shifts toward mobile/handheld" no matter how much you wish it to be. No amount of FUD will change that.
Xbox 1 sold more than the Xbox one only because of getting a decent franchise and being new.
The only reason the 360 did well was having an outlier of a bunch of region appealing games a year ahead of the ps3. But it trailed off and died the same.
If there wasn't a contraction fr Xbox then the Xbox would be doing more than it is now. Ask yourself where all the 360 users went while looking at the last 3 years of 360 sales in Japan.
The Xbox one is selling no better than the 360 recently was there. Which was the real uninflated sales if the Xbox there anyway, matching the original xboxs sles.
The over 1 million sales figure for the 360 is throwing everyone off. But we can agree to disagree.
The Xbox can't do anything in Japan and never could. I mean all 3 are frontloaded, and all have sold within the same range once they tampered off.
But anyway regardless, the next Xbox will likely still come out there. Not sure what the strategywill be. Console market may very well be even worse.
Another48Hours
Banned
The modern manga anime artstyle came from Disney style cartoons.
plasmawave
Banned
That still doesn't change what I said tho.
Seriously dude? I just made a comprehensive post showing how much worse XB1 is selling compared to either predecessor and you're still trying to hand waive it off as its the Japanese markets fault despite having 0 evidence to corroborate that assertion.
It's selling worse because it's less appealing than either of its predecessors not because of a market contraction and not because Japan is prejudiced against MS. The numbers tell a different story than the ones you're trying to pitch.
Even if they don't sell any units in Japan, they wouldn't close up shop there. There are economic advantages of operating in foreign markets, especially when it comes to accounting and taxation. Presence in a foreign market has value even if they operate at a certain loss there. There's probably intangible benefits as well.
Agreed. It's an important market to have a presence in regardless of size but to pawn the drop in sales off as being due to "ethnocentrism" or "a market wide shift to mobile" as others in this thread have is being incredibly disingenuous. I just take offense to that artificial dialogue that gets spouted as some sort of dismissal whenever JP sales are discussed. It's simply not true and if you actually want the XB1 (or whatever MS' next console is) to perform better worldwide you should be looking at the possible causes for this sort of performance instead of excusing it as unavoidable.
Another48Hours
Banned
Again, is the Xbox one not selling aroud the same range the Xbox 1 was selling after the frontbload ended?
Has not the 360, beenselling aound the same range for years?
The brand was never appealing, a price drop and a 2 month exclusive window for ffxv and dq would boost sales, but then it would drop back to the usual Xbox salesits why those 360 games did nothing outside short term boosts.
It's not that the xbo is less appealing, it's that it's got nothing to make some have an impulse buy desicion to artificially boost sales.
Again the 360 was cheap, had no competition for a year with region focused games, and whn it did the competition fumbled a bit, it was an impulse buy and it went right back to the usual weekly sales no matter any other attempt tried once that fumbling was stabilized in terms of the ps3. Wii didn't help either.
I can't agree with the Xbox one performing worse when most of its jp ltd its been selling around the same normal sales as the other two Xboxes, and now that the Xbox one lacks anything to make it an impulse buy it will be be goig down it's inevitable fumbling sales path fighting to reach 100 outside big game releases.
But again,agree to disagree.
Bullshit. MS particular tax laundering scheme goes through "research subsidiaries" in Ireland, Porto Rico, and Singapore. Singapore has no actual employees and is registered in Bermuda. Xboxones being a market presence in Japan would be immaterial to MS tax avoidance operation.
http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-microsoft-avoids-taxes-loopholes-irs-2013-1
Another48Hours
Banned
I agree wth etho but we shouldn't pretend that it's not at least a margins factor. I mean guys can site apple and such but us attempts there in the video game industry have nothing to compare with apples effort to appeal to the jps, and also build a solid ground and reputation game.
What a load of horseshit. Products sell less than their precursors because they are less appealing. You can argue all day about why it is less appealing but to say it's somehow due to factors other than it being less desirable is ABSURD.
Oh ffs I just showed you with numbers, ratios and charts that it IS NOT "selling around the same normal sales!" Seriously how many ways does data need to presented for you to accept it? It is selling worse. There is no facet of its sales performance thus far that is better than or equal to its predecessors. It is performing worse in every conceivable sakes metric. Ever single one. Your willful ignorance in the face of repeated proof otherwise is absolutely baffling.
DriftingSpirit
Member
Oh, consoles are dad again?
Another48Hours
Banned
Also I saw someone say Ms did jrpgs only to get ff. No, first, that doesn't explain the other games genres, second, they released a jrpg after ffxiii.
The reason why they dropped jrpgd is they did very little in Japan and severely flopped everywhere else. But games like dis did very well. Etc. That's why they dropped jrpgs.
The reason why they dropped jrpgd is they did very little in Japan and severely flopped everywhere else. But games like dis did very well. Etc. That's why they dropped jrpgs.
The Mad Draklor
Member
The bolded makes no sense at all...
And oh yay, one single JRPG after FFXIII. That still does not discount the fact that the JRPG support pre and post-FFXIII are drastically different. Meanwhile, the PS3 received way more JRPGs after FFXIII (e.g. Disgaea D2, Ni No Kuni, Kingdom Hearts 1.5 & 2.5, Final Fantasy X|X-2 HD, etc.)
The Artisan
Member
what do you mean? it released in those places too. you make it sound like they should've launched only in U.S/UK.
This thread is going around in circles and seemed unnecessary to begin with given we already have a dedicated Media Create thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1173117&highlight=
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