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[Delusibeta]

Now that's two games in August I won't be getting. Saints Row IV for being able to create an over sexualized female

I'm going to jump into this shitstorm and ask what rock you've been under? That's in all the past Saints Rows. Sure, the "Sexual Attraction" meter was introduced in 3, but there's nothing stopping your female (or male) character wearing (literally or almost) nothing.

 

[BocoDragon]

I also want to say, as someone who is in a game programming class: more than half of the students are women.

You won't have to kick these niche male genre games for much longer. Women are entering the development community, and we'll all get the diversity we want.

 

[antitrop]

he said that the game is a disaster, it's embarassing, suda 51 lost his respect, he should quit, the game should be thrown into space because a mini-game that you can skip. that's overreacting to me.

You forgot that his career is over, too. It's right there in the title!

 

[params7]

probably with a lot of guilt and self-loathing.

And with no porn consumption. Or porn followed by guilt and self-loathing.

 

[Squire]

Matt Lees doing God's work again, I see.

Right on. Game's looked like trash from the minute they brought out this tripe.

 

[Village]

I was referring to the guy in the video. But yeah, I'm sure the vast majority in here are male too.

Wake me up when Suda makes a game where you actually rape someone, then I'll sign your petition to get his developer license revoked.

The extreme isn't the end all.

 

[Floex]

I agree that Suda 51's shtick is way past due. You can have a sexy love interest "Bond girl" in a game like MGS3 (EVA) and not have it turn into something like this "gigolo mode". If he wants to be respected he should try to do things a bit more classy or at least less dumb.

One of the stupidest costumes ever seen in a game.

 

[Jotamide]

I'll hold off any real judgements until I can actually see the part of the game for myself.

For now I think this guy is kind of making a big deal about nothing.

Reviewers can say whatever the fuck they want. It's up to you to pay attention or not.

 

[Lime]

This thread has become too much with the massive amount of 'faux outrage', 'white knights', 'men have it tough', etc. This entire topic of discussion has become so extremely toxic and it feels like GAF has worsened when it comes to talking about anything that has remotely to do with criticism of character representation in games.

If the concept of fantasizing and having sexual thoughts about people without getting their consent first offends you, like how have you survived life?

Read the entirety of my post.

 

[Uncle Rupee]

Im still gonna buy the game.

If the gigolo mode is pulled out from the game due to the "controversy",Im gonna flip a table.

If this is "mode" represents what he thinks of us, his audience, we should feel insulted.

 

[Unspeakable Evil]

The Official NeoGAF Guide to Dating

X ray glasses are hard to find .

 

[JoeFenix]

Between this thread and the mental illness in horror games one I`m just shaking my head so hard right now.

What next, generic thugs in videogames looking like homeless people stigmatizing actual real homeless people?

 

[FINALBOSS]

I'm sure many of the people here accusing people of being "white knights" completely respect Anita Sarkeesian for being a real woman.

Sorry.

Either games are art or they aren't. Let's make up our minds on this here and now.

Because if they are, they aren't subject to PC and complaints such as these. It's the directors vision and whether you wanna partake in his vision (i.e. purchasing the game).

If they aren't art, then they do indeed need to be PC and this entire discussion has merit.

So which is it everyone?

 

[Jenga]

I thought I was clearly referring to the posters who were whining about people raising awareness of sexist elements in games such as:

is there anything about this mode that goes beyond satire and actively into actual hateful misogyny?

these posters are sick of anything even remotely risque being brow-beaten into the ground as "harmful".

did you hate bayonetta? this game takes the satirical sexuality of that game and reduces it to a purposely over the top minigame.

Suda 51 isn't fucking Tolstoy, but he isn't an idiot.

 

[Muffdraul]

In other words, if you have anything in any way that may be construed as supporting a feminist view, shut your mouth. Opinions that don't fall in that intersection? Preach on man.

If the guy had chastized Suda within the context of a video review, that I could swallow. But apparently he was just so overtaken by self righteous feminist ire that he just had to stop whatever he was doing to make special video for the sole purpose of condemning Suda, a guy who has a history of bizarre over the top sexual stuff, over this one mini-game. Yeah, I'm not getting behind that. Sorry.

 

[Pimpbaa]

Sounds like a pervy game I can enjoy, but it's a Suda game...

The western gaming media has become so fragile with the way women are portrayed. At this rate I will never get my heavy metal amazon women video game...

That would be so awesome. I say they should take out the sexualized women out of general games, but have more dedicated games for perverts. It's win win.

 

[RoboGeorgeForeman]

Can't say I care one way or the other about this. It sounds as ridiculous as the model/photoshoot phase of MGS4 boss battles. Hopefully it doesn't happen too often though, as it seems like something that could get old fast.

 

[Endo Punk]

One of the stupidest costumes ever seen in a game.

It's ok, this balances it out.

 

[antitrop]

You're misunderstanding the complaint about this mode. This mode rests on the premise that it's completely socially acceptable to undress (and imagine) the people you're attracted to - and that none of them have any issue with being imagined naked by a possible stranger. In real life, some people of course don't mind being imagined naked by other people, but for others it can be quite bothersome when others constantly undress them with their eyes. The issue in this game is the very definition of reducing other people to objects that this mode implicitly reproduces - the mode exists to stroke your dick/pussy.

Yeah, I mostly agree. Except for the part about the game implying that this is socially acceptable.

You're playing as a pervert. That doesn't mean that perversion is okay. You're playing a character. That's how I feel about it.

 

[params7]

X ray glasses are hard to find out.

Me and my friends have been looking for them since we were 14. At least we can find it in a videogame now. Woo!

 

[BocoDragon]

I didn't say this game was, said it was another on the pile. Dragon's Crown is different, and I argued in favor of the artist on that one.

I understand the feeling that, in the main, there isn't enough content with progressive or mainstream or female appeal... I get what you mean by "another on the pile".

But if the industry were more balanced... Might you be willing to leave something like this alone for the niche that wants it?

 

[Codeblue]

Turn in your gun and badge? Respect?

He's talking about earning respect and credentials to someone who adopted the tag line "Punk's Not Dead".

 

[Ridley327]

One of the stupidest costumes ever seen in a game.

Incidentally, MGS3:S did include a special cinema viewer where you could ogle EVA in her underwear. The ending of that viewer did have a funny surprise to it, but Kojima is hardly above simple titillation himself.

 

[Village]

Sorry.

Either games are art or they aren't. Let's make up our minds on this here and now.

Because if they are, they aren't subject to PC and complaints such as these. It's the directors vision and whether you wanna partake in his vision (i.e. purchasing the game).

If they aren't art, then they do indeed need to be PC and this entire discussion has merit.

So which is it everyone?

or it we can criticize art we think is shitty like normal people. I have no feelings on this game yet.

Also PC isnt a thing really

 

[Muffdraul]

The extreme isn't the end all.

I didn't say rape/murder.

 

[reptilescorpio]

Game looks batshit as expected.

Can't wait.

Keep making moves Suda, you've entertained me so far.

 

[SolidSnakex]

The film industry's roots can be traced back to a much more conservative era where a film like the The Bunny Game couldn't have been made, and by the time it was deemed "acceptable" to make such films Hollywood had already established its aura of respectability through the great classics of the 30's, 40's, and 50's. The video game medium, by comparison, is still growing and has a long way to go if there are so gamers like you will defend a game's right to allow you to live out a creepy sexist fantasy. That's all I have to say about that.

So where do you draw the line? Is it just sexual content that should be off limits? What about GTA and the ability that it gives you to kill random people? Should that be off limits because gaming is still trying to mature? What about pure multiplayer shooters where the entire goal is to just run around murdering one person after another? What exactly is the line where something is so offensive that it's harmful toward gaming?

Personally I feel that any game has a right to exist. That doesn't mean that I have to like that game or that i'll even play it. But you're entering a very dangerous territory when you feel the best option for something is for something to not exist instead of just ignoring it.

 

[Astarte]

It's ok, this balances it out.

That's fucking stupid, snake's ass CLEARLY overshadows eva

 

[spuit*11]

All these opinions. All this faux social justice outrage.

Somebody hold me. QQ

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

I can understand and respect people being turned off by this mode in the game, but don't think it's as insidious as some people are making it out to be. After watching the YouTube clip of Gigolo Mode, and balancing that with the action gameplay and story parts, I have to say I still plan to purchase and enjoy the game.

 

[params7]

It's ok, this balances it out.

More like

Aka the most well developed female character in all of videogame fiction.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

Not condoning the mode, but the video has some information wrong.

1) Mondo staring at the women doesn't excite them. That's to fill up his 'Guts' meter so that he has the courage to make the move, as it were.

2) He doesn't give cash as a present. There is a gold coin (like a collector's or commemorative thing) as one of the gifts, but it's not like he hands over bills in exchange for sex. :/ Gold coin vs. dollar bills is probably just semantics for some, but the video really kind of misrepresents it.

3) My impression from speaking with Suda at dinner after E3 about the mode itself was that it was just a silly break in the action.


Again, not trying to defend it, but I felt the video got a few things wrong. Take it as you will, I guess.

Sounds like you're defending it to me, at least as something to not get worked up over ;p

 

[kinggroin]

Reverse the genders. I wouldn't fucking care.


Thing is, this is a "Mature" rated game. I'd expect adults to have a proper idea of how relationships and courting work, as well as, having respect for members of the opposite sex.

If this game changed your mind after playing it, you were either already fucked in the head, or too young to play in the first place.

This Matt Lees fella can fuck off with his sensitive ass

 

[Jenga]

That's fucking stupid, snake's ass CLEARLY overshadows eva

Snake has a great ass. I can't compete with that ass. I can't compete with the Big Boss. I demand Kojima stop with this silly male fantasy of being buff and huge and having casual sex.

 

[BGBW]

Movies and music have some redeemable things about them though. This is a Suda game we're talking about ( ≖‿&#8790

They got some good music tracks. (≖‿≖ )

 

[foxuzamaki]

I'm always amused at the people who fake disgust and outrage over a game's sexual content, yet they don't seem to think the rest of the game revolving solely about murdering and maiming other human beings as offensive. It's a highly fascinating look at modern society's obsession with preset agendas

.

 

[CrimsonCrescendo]

Sorry.

Either games are art or they aren't. Let's make up our minds on this here and now.

Because if they are, they aren't subject to PC and complaints such as these. It's the directors vision and whether you wanna partake in his vision (i.e. purchasing the game).

If they aren't art, then they do indeed need to be PC and this entire discussion has merit.

So which is it everyone?

Saying "Not okay with this if it truly is as bad as described" =/= GOVERNMENT BANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO FANTASIZING EVAR!!!!! PIIIIIIIIIIGGGGGGGGGSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!

People are saying those who have some issues with the minigame are overreacting... yeah, look in the mirror.

It's childish (and creepy if you are getting up in close and sneaking crotch shots on women in a bar) and I'm not about to take this game seriously. I am not calling for any kind of PC bullshit intervention, so calm the fuck down as I haven't seen anyone else call for that either.

 

[Broder Salsa]

It's ok, this balances it out.

 

[Lime]

Yeah, I mostly agree. Except for the part about the game implying that this is socially acceptable.

You're playing as a pervert. That doesn't mean that perversion is okay. You're playing a character. That's how I feel about it.

That's a completely valid way to look at it. Like you said so wisely earlier, we'll see how the entire game pans out (although I might not play it).

 

[Harlock]

Stupid white knight false intellectual game journalist. We live in the worst of puritanism of times.

 

[velociraptor]

So where do you draw the line? Is it just sexual content that should be off limits? What about GTA and the ability that it gives you to kill random people? Should that be off limits because gaming is still trying to mature? What about pure multiplayer shooters where the entire goal is to just run around murdering one person after another? What exactly is the line where something is so offensive that it's harmful toward gaming?

Personally I feel that any game has a right to exist. That doesn't mean that I have to like that game or that i'll even play it. But you're entering a very dangerous territory when you feel the best option for something is for something to not exist instead of just ignoring it.

What about porn? Think of all the women that are objectified and fapped to. Will someone please think of all the poor women who have been oogled at?

Perhaps it's time to ban porn.

 

[QaaQer]

I actually now want to make a video where we re-enact the description of Gigolo Mode in actual bars and see what happens.

I think if you try to give women money for sex you could have some legal problems. Cupcakes are ok though.

 

[FINALBOSS]

or it we can criticize art we think is shitty like normal people. I have no feelings on this game yet.

Also PC isnt a thing really

Of course we can critcize art. Art by definition is an expression of the artist--designed to make you feel something---whether positively or negatively.

I'm not saying don't criticize..I think everything should.

But for people to say things like this shouldn't be included in Suda's game because it's derogatory for women...nah.

 

[SlasherJPC]

I won't lie I watched the clip and thought it was so ridiculous I started laughing. Maybe I'm part of the problem? Funny enough, I have mucho respect for woman. Ask my gf if you have to

 

[mcmmaster]

What I wanna see is this idiot do a similar video for the terrorist attacks in Modern Warfare 2 & 3, as it seems we gotta take everything in video games so bloody serious according to Mr Matt Lees

 

[cosmicblizzard]

People say Matt Lees is overreacting, but seriously, nothing makes gamer dudes flip their shit more than someone even suggesting that a video game has sexist content. As soon as someone raises a concern, it's a total shit storm.

Game Critic: "Hey, so Leisure Suit Larry is kinda sexist, isn't it?"
Gamer Dudes: "NOPE WHY SO SERIOUS YOU'RE SO OVERSENSITIVE."
Game Critic: "Here, let me explain my critique in detail. I'll even do so in accessible video form."
Gamer Dudes: "WOW YOU MADE A VIDEO WHY ARE YOU OVERREACTING?"

thisisneogaf.gif

I don't know if claiming the other side is overreacting is a proper counter to the overreaction that caused the discussion in the first place.

 

[Nanashi]

It's just over-liberalism again. To quote Buckley - “Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”

I think people should just let things exist and trust that people are intelligent and responsible enough to make their own personal judgements without being browbeat into a corner or being shamed for it. If the sex aspect makes you uncomfortable (I'm not exactly happy about it either, since it doesn't appeal to me), that's a valid personal reaction - but you could simply acknowledge that the game producer offends you and choose not to play his games.

You can't make that decision for everyone else and it's even more annoying to get on a sanctimonious moral high ground and start preaching your absolute values to everyone else.

 

[Discotheque]

gigolo mode is optional right? i don't really intend to play that stuff but the rest of the game looks fantastic

shadows of the damned was one of the best games of the year. soundtrack was beautiful.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

I have a question

If I rented this game, is there a way to avoid weird virtual pervert mode and just get back to the cool assassin bits, or is that one of these forced minigame things in between missions. Will I be missing out on any major bonuses, perhaps extra XP and money for starring at women's asses or something?

 

[NotLiquid]

I agree that Suda 51's shtick is way past due. You can have a sexy love interest "Bond girl" in a game like MGS3 (EVA) and not have it turn into something like this "gigolo mode". If he wants to be respected he should try to do things a bit more classy or at least less dumb.

The main, actual implied love interest looks to be just that, actually.