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[eznark]

I'm outraged by Matt Lees portrayal of women. What a fucking scumbag. Get out of here with that sexist caricature play acting you faux-stoner clown.

 

[benzy]

He can fuck off. Gameplay looks awesome, artstyle looks incredible.

 

[Village]

Of course we can critcize art. Art by definition is an expression of the artist--designed to make you feel something---whether positively or negatively.

I'm not saying don't criticize..I think everything should.

But for people to say things like this shouldn't be included in Suda's game because it's derogatory for women...nah.

People say things and features say things should not be included in games for bunches of other reasons. This is no different. Its criticism.

 

[SousedLouse]

If you're going to complain about my point, you would do better to actually describe your position on why you think my points are invalid. Women have the freedom to dress how they want and to dress themselves responsibly. If a man dressed up in nothing but a thong and chest-hugging shirt and got ogled at in public and later complained about people "visually undressing" him, I'd be just as dismissive of his complaint.

If I want to get taken seriously at a job interview, I wouldn't choose to dress like a stripper. People make conscious decisions about how they dress.

Ah. Fine then. I assumed that your comment was some sort of feeble mimicry of other posters who try to ease their way out of a bad comment by low-balling its negative implications with comments like

"I'm not racist, but [insert racist comment here]"
"I'm not saying she had it coming, but [insert shitty, sexist comment here]"

and stuff like that. There's a lot of posters who have sensible opinions and obnoxiously swollen heads about themselves, and they usually get their kicks by pantomiming people who shit up a thread, and then patting each other on the back as if they've accomplished something noteworthy. It's getting to the point where I'm so sick of bullshit like the aforementioned nonsense that my heart skips a beat when I see the usual suspects line up, and I assumed that you were pulling the same shit.

I honestly don't mean to drag you into this if you're being earnest. I don't agree with what you've said, but if you're not just stroking your own ego in all this then just ignore that I quoted you to begin with. I'd try to talk with you, but after the self-congratulatory bullshit that I've seen in OT, I'm just done with debates for now. I'd honestly rather talk to the most hyper-reactionary, ignorant, stubborn user on this site than put up with that bullshit (not saying that that's you, I'm just exaggerating to make a point). I'm sorry.

 

[Jenga]

I won't lie I watched the clip and thought it was so ridiculous I started laughing. Maybe I'm part of the problem? Funny enough, I have mucho respect for woman. Ask my gf if you have to

Does your woman realize you're assaulting her every time you check her out?!

 

[Astarte]

Snake has a great ass. I can't compete with that ass. I can't compete with the Big Boss. I demand Kojima stop with this silly male fantasy of being buff and huge and having casual sex.

Listen, all you have to do is be born as snake. You got this, buddy

 

[Codeblue]

People say things and features say things should not be included in games for bunches of other reasons. This is no different. Its criticism.

This is like criticizing a movie for its trailer.

 

[kazebyaka]

Calling it now, the gigolo mode will be the only good thing about this game.

 

[Coffee Dog]

is this another one of those threads where "feminists" think that women can only be portrayed as non-sexual beings?

 

[H.Protagonist]

Sounds like you're defending it to me, at least as something to not get worked up over ;p

Well, more like trying to clarify. Anyone who knows me from OT knows this is definitely not my kind of mini-game, but the video's representation of what's in the mini-game is wrong in several parts. People can be angry over the content, but at least they should be angry over what's actually in it.

 

[FINALBOSS]

People say things and features say things should not be included in games for bunches of other reasons. This is no different. Its criticism.

Not when it's based in something being "offensive" or "wrong".


As Snake said earlier, where exactly do we draw the line if some of you want a line to be drawn?

 

[Zomba13]

That part of the game has always looked skeezy but the rest of the game looks awesome.

 

[fabricated backlash]

or it we can criticize art we think is shitty like normal people. I have no feelings on this game yet.

Also PC isnt a thing really

For accusing others of reductionist arguments this video is extremely busy stereotyping and reducing others as uncivilized cavemen who as a unified clearly defined hivemind can't possibly have a point by calling out people who'd rather treat symptoms rather than actual problems and do their best to obstruct conversation by shutting the door to the very people they'd like to convince of their points.

 

[Nyoro SF]

Compared to all the things you can do in the GTA games the Gigolo Mode seems kind of tame lol

 

[Yamauchi]

Something's wrong with the reviewer's camera. It keeps skipping.

 

[BocoDragon]

I won't lie I watched the clip and thought it was so ridiculous I started laughing. Maybe I'm part of the problem? Funny enough, I have mucho respect for woman. Ask my gf if you have to

I suppose it should be noted that this is the intended reaction.

Almost no one will enjoy this mode because its actually titillating. The appeal comes from how humorously ironic and silly it is.

 

[Harlock]

American game journalist are all rised by the grandmothers?

 

[truly101]

So this strikes me as one of those times where dude in video game industry (usually journalist) becomes overly sensitive about juvenile over the top shit that makes this industry, and by association, him, less cool than he would like to be.

 

[Symthic]

I'm saying that in an entirely fictionalized and different world from our own, context is absolutely required before taking such a hard stance on anything.

So if RapeLay had x-ray glasses, would it be acceptable?

 

[Village]

This is like criticizing a movie for its trailer.

I have done that.

And sometimes you end up absolutely right.

Not saying this game will be terrible, but sometimes bits and pieces being revealed shows a bigger terrible picture.

 

[Endo Punk]

Can one still respect women while playing 100 survival mode fights to unlock a bikini in DOA5?

 

[MidnightCowboy]

It's a shame about this mode really, considering everything else about the game looks awesome to me.

 

[Arc Christelle]

If that's the case them maybe those people can step back and consider why others might find a mode that offers no value to anybody which exists solely to objectify women is a disgusting practice.

lol I ain't gotta do shit but stay black, play games, and die.

 

[LastNac]

An English dude complaining...on Youtube.

I feel like I've seen this video...

 

[Clawww]

Sorry.

Either games are art or they aren't. Let's make up our minds on this here and now.

Because if they are, they aren't subject to PC and complaints such as these. It's the directors vision and whether you wanna partake in his vision (i.e. purchasing the game).

If they aren't art, then they do indeed need to be PC and this entire discussion has merit.

So which is it everyone?

exactly

would these people flip a shit over Nabokov?

 

[Delusibeta]

American game journalist are all rised by the grandmothers?

Matt's British, which considering the Prime Minister defended the practice of printing topless women on page 3 in newspapers earlier this week, makes this video curiously out of character. /s

 

[DPJ]

I knew nothing about this game before this thread. Now I have it pre-ordered.

Thanks for bringing it to my attention guys.

 

[Codeblue]

I have done that.


And sometimes you end up absolutely right.

Not saying this game will be terrible, but sometimes bits and pieces being revealed shows a bigger terrible picture.

Sometimes jumping to a conclusion works.

 

[Astarte]

I think the people who are saying that they'll never purchase this game...never planned to buy this game in the first place. Japan doesn't give a flying fuck about this, suda fans are already clamoring over this, and suda himself doesn't give a fuck.

 

[Crash55118]

The seduction through shear staring actually sounds hilarious to me.

I feel like this mode was probably developed after Suda's time spent with Jessica Nigri during the Lollipop Chainsaw PR cycle.

He then need to try out his skills so he brought her back for Killer is Dead.

 

[Village]

Not when it's based in something being "offensive" or "wrong".


As Snake said earlier, where exactly do we draw the line if some of you want a line to be drawn?

No its the same, you can just argue the validity of it. Like you do with criticism, if you believe in your thing argue for it.

 

[fabricated backlash]

exactly

would these people flip a shit over Nabokov?

... after seeing how some people reacted to the current Hellenwein exhibition in Vienna, I'm afraid that stuff like "entartete Kunst" is still a reality today... just scratch the antisemitism and racism with whatever is currently deemed inappropriate.

 

[Hanmik]

I once got a trophy for hiding in a closet and looking at a picture of a halfnaked woman.. The beloved character even moaned and groaned..

 

[Gbraga]

He's overreacting a bit when he puts Suda into the mix, like every piece of fiction reflects the beliefs of its creators. "You've made some good games, but now, I'm afraid, it's over"? Really???

Other than that, I think it's kinda silly but ok, he doesn't like it and he's allowed to express his opinions about it.

 

[SousedLouse]

Matt's British, which considering the Prime Minister defended the practice of printing topless women on page 3 in newspapers earlier this week, makes this video curiously out of character. /s

Heh, funny. Suda might have earned less scrutiny by throwing in an ersatz version of the Daily Mail into the game instead, truth be told.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Suda's schtick is getting old. All of his games that I've played are terrible, and his perverted humor isn't even funny in an ironic sense.

I never played Killer 7 or No More Heroes so don't slander me based on those games.

Then you haven't played any of his games.


Suda did not direct anything NMH1. This needs to be more known.

 

[velociraptor]

I once got a trophy for hiding in a closet and looking at a picture of a halfnaked woman.. The beloved character even moaned and groaned..

Oh Kojima, you are so cray.

 

[truly101]

Can one still respect women while playing 100 survival mode fights to unlock a bikini in DOA5?

It makes you respect them that much more

 

[Arc Christelle]

Can one still respect women while playing 100 survival mode fights to unlock a bikini in DOA5?

Yeah. Why not?

 

[Jenga]

exactly

would these people flip a shit over Nabokov?

I'd be interested to see how Lolita would be received if it was newly released today.

 

[Vanpastel]

In other words, if you have anything in any way that may be construed as supporting a feminist view, shut your mouth. Opinions that don't fall in that intersection? Preach on man.

You see, his problem is that he actually sees women as mere sex objects and because of that he can't even conceive that we may actually care about the way they are portrayed in videogames. He projects, and reasons that we do this on order to get into someone's pants.

 

[chrono01]

*chrono01 reads a bit about the topic at-hand*

*chrono01 opens his mouth slightly, and then quickly closes it*

Nope! I'm not going to get into this discussion, it will not end well. Both sides will argue back-and-forth over "sexualizing women" and none will concede defeat. It will be a battlefield! I value my life too much for that.

[On the subject, I don't personally see a problem with it as it seems like a fun mini-game that's not at all part of the "core experience", as per usual from Suda. However, I know some may be offended with this, so who am I to tell them how to feel?]

 

[NinjamicWZ]

It's ironic that this constant crusade against the sexualization of female characters in gaming is verging on the reinforcement of puritanical sensibilities. The same aversions to vulgarity and imposed modesty that once prevented women from ever experiencing an orgasm, wearing a skirt above the ankles or pants, choosing their partners, being educated, working etc... and instead burned them at the stake after branding them as adulterous witches of Satan and whores of Babylon.

Tired of this foolishness from people with mouths bigger than their eyes, tbh.

 

[Paper Sparrow]

Oh geez, this thread is going to be huge. Sexism discussion on the internet never goes over well.

 

[fabricated backlash]

I'd be interested to see how Lolita would be received if it was newly released today.

Dude would probably be arrested on child porn charges.

 

[katkombat]

I'm going to jump into this shitstorm and ask what rock you've been under? That's in all the past Saints Rows. Sure, the "Sexual Attraction" meter was introduced in 3, but there's nothing stopping your female (or male) character wearing (literally or almost) nothing.

missed the point of my post

you got it haha

 

[FINALBOSS]

No its the same, you can just argue the validity of it. Like you do with criticism, if you believe in your thing argue for it.

And we come full circle to my is it art or not argument.

Cause if it is, pushing for shit to be removed because it's offensive has no merit.

 

[params7]

It's ironic that this constant crusade against the sexualization of female characters in gaming is verging on the reinforcement of puritanical sensibilities. The same aversions to vulgarity and imposed modesty that once prevented women from ever experiencing an orgasm, wearing a skirt above the ankles or pants, choosing their partners, being educated, working etc... and instead burned them at the stake after branding them as adulterous witches of Satan and whores of Babylon.

Five-star post right here.

 

[truly101]

I think the people who are saying that they'll never purchase this game...never planned to buy this game in the first place. Japan doesn't give a flying fuck about this, suda fans are already clamoring over this, and suda himself doesn't give a fuck.

But if he did give a fuck, it would be in space

 

[Shahadan]

I think the idea of the minigame is rather funny and far less creepy than most threads in Off Topic or any discussion held by a group of average men for that matter.