I actually clapped my hands at this. Great video, and I'm especially glad that you talked about the idea that a protagonist doesn't have to be likable to be enjoyable. I'm really dying to try out the game now.
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Killer is Dead Reviews Thread
- Thread starter LiK
- Start date
I actually clapped my hands at this. Great video, and I'm especially glad that you talked about the idea that a protagonist doesn't have to be likable to be enjoyable. I'm really dying to try out the game now.
SousedLouse
Member
From what I recall, most of Suda's defenders pulled out the old 'it's supposed to be unwieldy and eccentric' chestnut based on his entire body of work, not just this one minigame.
Gigolo Mode was the latest advertisement from the studio, following a series of ads showcasing another quirky assassin, a de-humanized big, black buck doing what he does best, and another femme fatale with a bizarre hook - ads which were, by the way, spread out far more often than the Gigolo Mode teaser. It seems odd that you keep saying that Gigolo Mode was supposed to be some sort of big hook, but the fact that it's the only thing that gained any traction in terms of criticism at the time - in spite of the tired spy cliches and other egregious storywriting crutches - is predictable. Thankfully, critics eventually took enough time off from that to point out that the game's combat is a bit weak and the image quality is a bit off, and I couldn't care less if they honestly feel that Gigolo Mode is objectionable enough to hone in on it. But Lees is a hack. I'll never budge from that point.
I remember the bit about his co-worker's reaction from the video, thanks. It wasn't impressive, and it only exists as a lead in to his cheesy sketches, so you'll have to forgive me for not putting a lot of weight into it; I could have guessed that he made up his mind about the game before playing it based on his smug sense of self-satisfaction, so I didn't need a primer about his co-worker's shared apprehension.
And so far, I haven't called anyone in this thread an idiot. I haven't done it outright, and I certainly haven't done it in that shitty, passive-aggressive way that seems to be the rage lately. I've said that some posts are shitty, because settling for 'off the mark' doesn't have enough bite to it. And I've certainly called gaming journalists in general idiots, but as far as I'm concerned that's a valid assessment as well as an insult, and I haven't named names aside from Lees (who hasn't shown up yet), so I don't see how that would be valid. One or two odd posts doesn't make anyone an idiot.
I don't see why it matters whether or not I called anyone an idiot, though. I mean, as long as my points are valid, I could have judged you or anyone else in this thread in any way I wanted, and somehow you would be responsible for feeling insulted instead of me. Top it off with a smug 'I'm not here to coddle your feefees' post and voila! It's an untouchable shit sundade of a post! Noxious and spiteful, but just detached enough to avoid scrutiny!
Hell, if it was broad enough of a point, I might even get a few props from other posters that are hungry for self-validation.
Alarmism =/= criticism. The first few weeks of a blockbuster game's sales is one of the most important factors of whether or not it has legs, and I honestly believe that GTA V will get the fast track to critical acceptance from jump. Any condemnation from journalist circles will come long after Rockstar has made their money. And I suspect that Rockstar won't eliminate the sleazy stuff, so much as they'll add mitigating factors which will cloud the content enough to make definitive condemnation impossible. So essentially, it's immune. I suppose I should have been more clear about my viewpoint. Sorry about that.
I've no doubt that a few individuals will make solid critiques on the game. I also expect that they'll either be ignored or shouted down around the very start of the hype cycle, only to get recognition after the fact.
Fine, fair enough. I've spent so much time on my few posts in this thread that I've probably missed or misread those posts in order to get caught up again. I apologize for speaking in such broad terms.
That's possible, but I think it'll get a bit of credit for being more exaggerated than GTA IV - it might be considered a return to form, even moreso than GTA IV's DLC episodes, and people love comeback stories.
SlasherJPC
Banned
Damn good video! I will be subbing! As one fellow youtuber to another... BRAVO!
ReturnOfTheRAT
Member
My copy will be delivered tomorrow. I guess there's some collector's book along with it.
TheFLYINGManga_Ka
Member
I kind of dont like the art style. Anyway, looks like Lollipop Chainsaw is their best game. I would say Shadows of the Damned but those gallery shoot out levels and SHMUP section killed it from being a good game.
FrostuTheNinja
Member
Is there a superior platform to play this on or is it fairly identical across both and actually just comes down to controller preference?
nckillthegrimace
Member
LC is their worst game.
It was great
Well, there you have it, Master Suda51, stop trying to appeal to the dude-bro masses and go back to the real hardcore: begin working on NMH3, but this time make it right: WiiU/3DS exclusive.
Ho, and ask Nintendo to give you some "resources", maybe even one of their IPs (that would be dope)
Ho, and ask Nintendo to give you some "resources", maybe even one of their IPs (that would be dope)
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Your perception of "good" or "better" is not universal.
No way in hell that GungHo is going to let them make NMH3 a WiiU exclusive.
You were not paraphrasing me, you were trying to appear intellectually smug by making a counter-point to a ''complaint'' I had against a point which I never insinuated. So thank you for calling me a child while bloody trying to look for justifications about your ego-eccentricity.
The game had a silly mode which appeared to be sexist and misogynistic. Why would he need to know about stupidly niche cultural references that justifies its palpable images he saw it was disgusting? You might not agree with it and I may not agree with his point of view of what makes something sexist and deplorable, but he may appeared to be annoyed by it, especially if its affecting the gameplay. In fact your comments reads ''wah wah, he doesn't like games which has butts and tits wah wah''
grow up and don't deflect your own silly arguments by calling me a child.
It was a point he was trying to make. The game was hack and here is just one reason why it could be. As you have pointed out, that mode was a silly mode, not only to add it to a game, but to advertise and base your whole image of your game on it. That was his point. It deterred from the fact , it was shitty game. Also, as you have pointed it out, the game is not good to begin with, that he knows from people he trusts their opinion, hence, he doesn't need to know if the game is shitty. Yes, he can say whatever e wants about the game which he knows a great deal about, more than any of us could say, because guess what, we didn't play at the time and yes, his opinion holds weight until we see it for ourself tat its a shitty game.
Matt is hack? it sounds you have a personal grudge against a man, not only from his point of view of this game. and trying to pin it down to his ''predictable'' criticism to a shitty game is not a strong evidence to label him as such.
This is the grossest. Yes yes, Grasshopper is now a lesser studio because, above ALL of the other possible reaons, they are chasing "the dude-bro masses" (fucking lol) and making games for platforms other than the ones you feel a spiritual connection with.
The "dude-bro masses" is a bad term, but it's undoubted that GHM smelled cash after NMH and has been applying that design style ever since, in a continuously more basic and shallow manner. They really went more mainstream, relatively speaking.
Beck
Member
zerokoolpsx
Member
Looks like its mediocre to average at best from the reviews. It could still be good. Right guys? T_T
The perfect Dark
Banned
German reviews.
Gamepro: 8.5/10
Gameswelt: 8.5/10
Eurogamer.de: 9/10
PCGames: 8.2/10
Looki.de: 7.6/10
Well, yeah....I will love it. LC and SotD were great games. LC was way too short though.
Did you read the post I quoted?
If the fans have no real expectations for a Suda51 game to be good and still buy it, what am I supposed to take from that?
Yes. Reviews aren't just scores, and review writers aren't God. Read some reviews, think of the Suda games you've played so far, and decide for yourself whether it sounds good enough to buy.
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
Lollipop chainsaw was awesome just to add. Juliet and her sisters were great.
amishpriest99
Member
Subbed! Great stuff!
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
I wouldn't call someone who doesn't expect something to be good and buys it anyway a viable source.
SousedLouse
Member
I don't know what points you're talking about, but I've only been referencing "Killer is Dead: Just Like Suda 51's Career" and the comments he made to defend himself in the thread that got locked, in response to Lees' comment on the reviews that was posted in this thread. I'd rather not keep harping about it at all, because the mods locked that thread for a reason and I don't want it to spill over into this thread, but you keep saying that Lees had more than one point and that his Twitter response was a valid comment on one of those points, and for the life of me I don't know why; I'm only bringing it up this last time in order to get some common ground.
Lee's entire point in his video, and the write-up that accompanied it, was that Killer is Dead is indicative of a trend of juvenile, sleazy humor in Suda's games, and that this time he's overstepped his bounds. And to argue that point, he harped on one thing: tone and context. He said that himself, in his own video, and went out of his way to stress it at the very start. He goes to great efforts to stress that he's boggled at the idea that anyone over at Grasshopper Manufacture would think that Gigolo Mode was acceptable, let alone greenlight it for production. He willingly points out that Suda does good work, or at least interesting work; but he also feels that this is the tipping point of Grasshopper Manufacture's work, that this is a line that was crossed too clumsily, a joke too exploitative for Suda and co. to continue to enjoy the respect and the benefit of the doubt anymore. I'm actually dead sure on it now, because I had to go back and watch it just to double check (and I feel like I wasted another 4 minutes of my life doing so).
Matt Lees did not say anything about the quality of Gigolo mode, or the game in general - he looked at Gigolo Mode in a vaccuum, and the context and the tone of the mini-game was the only thing he discussed in said video. His co-worker, Steven Burns, was more than happy to touch on both of those points in the write-up that accompanied Lees' video, but Lees himself had nothing to say about whether or not the mini-game dragged down the overall game at the start of the discussion on that video. And he definitely didn't mention anything about it being used to advertise the game in the video. He simply said that it could and should be a tipping point in Suda's career.
And when he decided to comment on the response to the video, he went on this weird kick about respectability politics in his posts - the sort of bravado and stubbornness that would have been admirable if his point weren't so obnoxious. He brushed off accusations of alarmism, insisted that all of his points were valid and kept going on about how his video was just one of many instances of him championing social causes, and how it's nuts that so many people reacted to that one video, and all sorts of other stuff. He gave me the impression that while his initial video was condemning the tone and context of Gigolo Mode, all of his responses And again, he didn't make any mention of the quality of the game.
I still remember how he kept using that "I'm proud to wear that badge" line. God that was obnoxious.
So now he's decided to chime in on the general reception of KiD - "Killer is Dead *is* a piece of shit", as if he called it and no one would listen to him - and he makes that little jab about wondering if the internet owe him an apology, and I have to ask "for what?" People didn't jump all over him because he said that the game was shit - he didn't even imply that, so why would they hold that against him in the first place? They got on his case because his video was sloppy, and when he doubled-down on his comments - on Youtube, on Twitter, on GAF, with other developers as the story spread - instead of acknowledging them, everyone else who thought he made mistakes doubled-down on their criticisms of his behavior.
But now, all of a sudden, the game being shit matters to him. Now it's worth placing Gigolo Mode in the broader context of the game, because now he can pat himself on the back and say that his critics jumped the gun on their responses, while completely missing the point of the entire dust-up in the process. And I saw a trend of other posters posting that yeah, he totally called it. It seemed silly, and a bit strange. So I made my post about your post, one thing lead to another, and here we are.
I don't know why the game being shitty is such a cut-up to him, or why you feel Lees had the tact to broach that angle before, but I don't think that it would have justified his general responses to his critics if he had. There's nothing for him to feel validated about, because the main thrust of his argument is still valid, and would be valid even if Killer is Dead was a triumph - and his responses would have still been shitty, too.
I'll say this, though. Whether it was valid or not, I shouldn't have put you on the spot like that. I wanted to see what it was like to throw someone else under the bus just to make a point; turns out it's not really worth it. I don't know what other posters get out of it, but I should have just addressed you directly instead of using your post as a punchline. It was in poor taste, and I'm sorry about that.
Senor Kami
Banned
Ended up being your typical Suda game, god bless his soul. Lots of style, enough content to fuel endless #1reasonwhy campaigns, and poor quality gameplay. I think this guy will hit his stride once "interactive movie" stops being considered a bad thing, He won't have to worry about terrible gameplay and the stylistic things he likes will totally be enough to sustain the content he makes.
The perfect Dark
Banned
BTW: Where's the OT ?
Killer is dead |OT| Ich bin doch nur ein Gigolo
Killer is dead |OT| Ich bin doch nur ein Gigolo
Mr.Monitor
Member
Seems divisive, as expected. I really enjoy Suda's style, and the gameplay has consistently looked fun to me, so I'm willing to bet I'll enjoy it.
I guess the person who claimed it decided to not do it at the last minute. It is up for grabs I think? I have no clue what is actually going on. I was going to do it but I am really slow and the game is out today.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=643727&page=4
Do it! It's not out before Friday in the EU. It seems like it gets more love here anyway. ;-)
Oh, Eurogamer.net review is out:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-08-27-killer-is-dead-review
5/10
The perfect Dark
Banned
DarkCronos
Member
my own review (sorry, italian only): http://mattsgames.it/recensioni/killer-is-dead
pros:
cons:
pros:
- More similar to the "old" Suda style than his last titles
- Solid gameplay
- Nice presentation
cons:
- style over substance
- the 4th GhM game with the same identical gameplay
- gigolò mode is borderline offensive
- technical issues and no lip synch with the japanese audio track
The perfect Dark
Banned
I'd like to know more about the side missions (not gigolo missions).
How many are there?
How many are there?
I like it.
FrostuTheNinja
Member
Is it unreal engine 3?
Edit:
Went ahead and just grabbed a PS3 copy. Tonight should be a doozy!
Edit:
Went ahead and just grabbed a PS3 copy. Tonight should be a doozy!
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
Hopefully it's here for Thursday.
Cannot wait.
Cannot wait.
The perfect Dark
Banned
This.
Killer is dead probably is the only real Suda - game on current gen HD-consoles.
I surely won't miss it.
This is a great review. Definitely subbing. It's probably not worth full price, but I'll definitely grab this game when it's a little less expensive. The Gigolo missions didn't really sound like anything other than silly James Bond parody things based on what I heard, and this review convinced me.
pretty done
Member
I get the feeling this may bomb harder than FUSE.
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
As seemingly one of the few people who enjoyed the great shooting mechanics and heavy metal aesthetics of Shadows of the Damned, and the cheeky pop-culture satire of Lollipop Chainsaw, I'm still not overly enthusiastic about Killer is Dead. At least it looks pretty.
Will pick up my copy in a couple of days.
Will pick up my copy in a couple of days.
nhlducks35
Member
Suda51, where the number refers to the metacritic score.