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[Izayoi]

FXAA is absolute tripe.

Why, GG? ;_;

 

[onQ123]

I knew there was something else going on there that's not just plain FXAA.


It's similar if not the same as SMAA. Probably stands for temporal multisample aa.

TMAA
Transparency Multi-sampling Anti-aliasing

A type of TrAA. It works by applying MSAA to flat pictures while leaving the real 3D models in the scene to be handled by other AA methods or by MSAA with a different number of samples.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

I know some of these words.

FXAA + TMAA

=

Lion tamer + Walls of Jericho

 

[Odrion]

Well yes, as I said, FXAA is not so good for showing off screenshots, but in motion and at 1080p it looks better with it than without, at least IMO.

Nah way man, nah fuckin' way.

 

[Dictator93]

TMAA
Transparency Multi-sampling Anti-aliasing

A type of TrAA. It works by applying MSAA to flat pictures while leaving the real 3D models in the scene to be handled by other AA methods or by MSAA with a different number of samples.

Like stated multiple times in this thread... this is probably not that TMAA: the director already mentioned them not using MSAA.

 

[AuthenticM]

Gamersyde has a new video of the game's multiplayer.

 

[Always-honest]

Gamersyde has a new video of the game's multiplayer.

ehh. that's the same video
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=709130

 

[Miguel81]

I'd prefer no AA to FXAA. That is nothing but a blur filter to me. Assassin's Creed 3 PC had no option to turn it off.

 

[nib95]

I'd prefer no AA to FXAA. That is nothing but a blur filter to me. Assassin's Creed 3 PC had no option to turn it off.

Doesn't seem to be an issue with Shadow Fall, so whatever they're doing is working really well. Super detailed and sharp, but still clean and jag free. But yea, FXAA over No AA any day of the week, especially at 1080p. Some slight loss of detail (which you can make up with TV sharpness) is still better than jaggies, shimmering etc.

 

[KKRT00]

I guessed correctly that they were using TAA in latest footage. Game looked cleaner in motion than on stills.

=========

I do wonder, does any developers other than Crytek use SMAA? I know its open for PC, but it's quite odd no one uses it for consoles? Fees to use it on consoles?

Arma 2/3 and Project CARS use SMAA.

All future CryEngine games will be using SMAA, at least on PC, because SMAA, FXAA, TXAA and MSAA are integral parts of the engine.

===========

Crytek used two AA techniques together first on consoles with their SMAA on Crysis 3, also on PC I think, I haven't played it though, wonder how it compares to Guerrilla's technique.

Actually Crytek were experimenting with TAA since Crysis 2. Even console versions used some kind of TAA, they also had temporal supersampling applied. It was all tweakable on PC.

The other game that used TAA was Gran Turismo 5.

SMAA T2X temporal component though is far superior than any of those implementations.

============

TMAA
Transparency Multi-sampling Anti-aliasing

A type of TrAA. It works by applying MSAA to flat pictures while leaving the real 3D models in the scene to be handled by other AA methods or by MSAA with a different number of samples.

Thats not GG's TMAA. This TMAA is old hardware + software based technique for forward rendered games.

 

[Dictator93]

Doesn't seem to be an issue with Shadow Fall, so whatever they're doing is working really well. Super detailed and sharp, but still clean and jag free. But yea, FXAA over No AA any day of the week, especially at 1080p. Some slight loss of detail (which you can make up with TV sharpness) is still better than jaggies, shimmering etc.

FXAA does not stop shimmering though. It lacks the sampling to do that.. and can even increase sub pixel aliasing issues.

 

[Creaking]

Typical GAF AA session.

 

[x3sphere]

These are direct frame buffer captures. AA seems to be highly effective without compromising on IQ.

Hmm, those look really good. Almost too good. You sure they are direct captures and not downsampled? A lot of the press shots from Sony are often released at very high resolutions.

If the IQ looks like that in-game I'll be extremely happy.

 

[spwolf]

You are confusing KZ:SF's Motion Blur, which is intentional, with their AA technique.

KZ:SF's AA is the best you will see on any next-gen game at launch.

and most importantly - game looks amazing in that high bitrate mp video.

 

[nib95]

Hmm, those look really good. Almost too good. You sure they are direct captures and not downsampled? A lot of the press shots from Sony are often released at very high resolutions.

There's aliasing, lesser anisotropic filtering etc in the shots. The AA solution is just very good, as is evident from all the recent HQ gameplay videos (both SP and MP).

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Sounds similar to what Ryse does. They are, from the sounds of it, combining SMAA with TMAA, but I guess it's their own custom solution.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-crytek-the-next-generation

For Ryse we developed our custom SMAA 1TX, in essence it is a combo of morphological AA with smarter temporal anti-aliasing. It's a new robust and fairly efficient technique which we shared some details about at Siggraph this year. It's a solution which deals with any signal input changes in order to smooth out potential shimmering during movement, while masking out any potential ghosting, and together with shading aliasing solutions it provides a more filmic image quality overall.

Either way, what both games are doing looks quite incredible.

http://www.crytek.com/download/Sousa_Graphics_Gems_CryENGINE3.pdf

They explain it more starting on page 19 of this PDF from Siggraph.

 

[Zombie James]

I don't get the FXAA hate. Early/weak implementations can cause a lot of blurring, true, but they're on better hardware now and they're probably using a better implementation of the algorithm. I'm sure before they announced they were using FXAA no one complained about Killzone's image quality.

edit:

FXAA... wtf. Anything else would be better, even nothing.

This right here is nuts. Fuck aliasing.

 

[MeBecomingI]

Well, whatever they are doing it looks good and seems fast. I'll take it!

 

[RoboPlato]

One thing that's nice about Sony having a custom AA solution this early in the gen is that it can be refined. TMAA is going to be passed around through WWS and will probably eventually be integrated into the SDK for third parties like MLAA was. If it's low cost enough, it could potentially become a standard AA implementation on PS4.

 

[TyphoonStruggle]

I don't get the FXAA hate. Early/weak implementations can cause a lot of blurring, true, but they're on better hardware now and they're probably using a better implementation of the algorithm. I'm sure before they announced they were using FXAA no one complained about Killzone's image quality.

edit:



This right here is nuts. Fuck aliasing.

OH WELL SINCE YOU'RE SURE ALL IS WELL THEN. Give me a break. You're nuts.

It seems like you haven't ever compared FXAA to no FXAA in games. I'm not saying you haven't fyi, so don't go all crazy. FXAA is a joke; too much IQ loss to be worth it... from what we've seen in the past.

If I have a choice of either SMAA, triple buffer + vsync, or FXAA, then order of importance is tri+vsync > SMAA > nothing > FXAA.

 

[SniperHunter]

Gamersyde has a new video of the game's multiplayer.

Will this run on ps3???

 

[velociraptor]

Will this run on ps3???

yes

 

[ghst]

WHAT ARE THOSE AA ANYWAYS? pls explain thanks

the worst ones. i think i'd rather have the jaggies.

 

[Timu]

Sounds similar to what Ryse does. They are, from the sounds of it, combining SMAA with TMAA, but I guess it's their own custom solution.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-crytek-the-next-generation



Either way, what both games are doing looks quite incredible.

http://www.crytek.com/download/Sousa_Graphics_Gems_CryENGINE3.pdf

They explain it more starting on page 19 of this PDF from Siggraph.

Now that explains why I can't seem to find much if any jaggies in Ryse.

 

[TheLegendary]

Now that explains why I can't seem to find much if any jaggies in Ryse.

Best looking game at launch. It's amazing there's no apparent aliasing anywhere despite being 900p

 

[MagicWithEarvin]

Every game next-gen should employ the use of SMAA.

 

[MogCakes]

ITT: People having IQ wars over Ryse and Killzone, AA methods being used as ammunition.

 

[Lord Error]

FXAA does not stop shimmering though. It lacks the sampling to do that.. and can even increase sub pixel aliasing issues.

That's true, but their tmaa probably does, because there's barely a hint of it here.

the worst ones. i think i'd rather have the jaggies.

Rather than a rough equivalent of SMAAt2x that this has? We'd welcome our eyes to shimmer city on those threes and fences, so I sure wouldn't. No AA doesn't look too bad where the geometry is clean and free of tiny details, but that's not going to be case much in future games.

 

[See You Next Wednesday]

8 GB worth of textures.

FXAA to ruin everything.

It's actually 3.5 GB worth.

 

[Loudninja]

ITT: People having IQ wars over Ryse and Killzone, AA methods being used as ammunition.

I am sick of it really.

 

[jett]

I don't understand the overstated awfulness of FXAA. I use it on PC games and it looks fine enough. It's not the blur that Quincunx is, not even close. It does the job at very little performance cost. KZSF looks really crisp and clean, regardless.

 

[Timu]

Best looking game at launch. It's amazing there's no apparent aliasing anywhere despite being 900p

Yeah it helps with the res definitely when upscaling. Though using a 720p output would make it look really, really sharp.

Every game next-gen should employ the use of SMAA.

Agreed.

 

[TEH-CJ]

Impressive.

Two passes of AA, 1080p, AND 60fps (or close to...wish it were locked).

Guerilla Games may not make the best games, but they always find a way to make ludicrously pretty games.

I find this post offensive >_>

They only made one of the best first person shooters ever with Killzone 2. The multiplayer was mind blowing.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Every game next-gen should employ the use of SMAA.

This. Nearly 5 years have passed and developers still use FXAA over SMAA...I don't understand why.

 

[Norml]

Here's a good comparison of 4X MSAA vs FXAA 3.

http://international.download.nvidi.../GDC2012/Samaritan-MSAAFXAA-Comparison-1.html

 

[Timu]

This. Nearly 5 years have passed and developers still use FXAA over SMAA...I don't understand why.

Probably due to cost.

 

[ChrisG683]

From what I understand, SMAA's algorithms are open for other developer to use, though I'm not sure what the licensing issues with it are.

SMAA was developed by a bunch of people at a university in conjunction with Crytek.

Who's dick do I have to suck to get SMAA in all engines?

Seriously, f*** FXAA with a hot iron rod. I realize that FXAA 4.x+ have increased the quality of FXAA, but it still has nothing on SMAA.

Thank god we have SMAA Injector / SweetFX / and soon eFX to solve this issue on PCs.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Probably due to cost.

What costs? SMAA is completely free to use, implement and modify in anyway developers see fit. And it definitely can't cost much from an implementation standpoint.

 

[burgerdog]

This is a 1st for a console game.

No. Alan Wake American Nightmare uses msaa and fxaa.

 

[phosphor112]

I'd rather they drop the FXAA. Shit is ugly.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Here's a good comparison of 4X MSAA vs FXAA 3.

http://international.download.nvidi.../GDC2012/Samaritan-MSAAFXAA-Comparison-1.html

This should definitely be on the OP.

 

[plasmawave]

YAA.

 

[IAmRandom31]

Gotta love that open GPU on the PS4!

Custom AA on the metal!

ON THE METAL!!!!!

I laughed pretty hard at that lol. Greatness

For people stating drop the FXAA, obviously it has had minimal effect on this title. I'm guessing the TMAA is doing the grunt work while FXAA fills in the gaps with minimal resources needed. The end product is beautiful though.

GG should throw out some no AA screens just for kicks

 

[unholyrevenger72]

Shadow Fall looks god awful now that I know it uses FXAA it look like shit smeared on a lens. I wish i could go back in time and erase this from my memory so it could look as good as did ealier today before i knew it used FXAA...

 

[MagicWithEarvin]

Edit: got TXAA and TMAA mixed up.

 

[stryke]

Shadow Fall looks god awful now that I know it uses FXAA it look like shit smeared on a lens. I wish i could go back in time and erase this from my memory so it could look as good as did ealier today before i knew it used FXAA...

The fact that you didn't notice it in the first place says a lot.

 

[RoboPlato]

Shadow Fall looks god awful now that I know it uses FXAA it look like shit smeared on a lens. I wish i could go back in time and erase this from my memory so it could look as good as did ealier today before i knew it used FXAA...

I don't think anyone complaining about FXAA has seen the raw footage from earlier. I usually hate FXAA when it's by itself but it's clear that the combination with TMAA in this game keeps the image sharp.

 

[unholyrevenger72]

The fact that you didn't notice it in the first place says a lot.

Show me your week or older post where you point the use of FXAA in Shadow Fall

I don't think anyone complaining about FXAA has seen the raw footage from earlier. I usually hate FXAA when it's by itself but it's clear that the combination with TMAA in this game keeps the image sharp.

I was being sarcastic, and making fun of the people who are whining about the use of FXAA even though the game still looks good.

 

[stryke]

Show me your week or older post where you point the use of FXAA in Shadow Fall

I was being sarcastic, and making fun of the people who are whining about the use of FXAA even though the game still looks good.

What the fuck does it matter if I can pick up on it or not, I never claimed otherwise.

You're gonna have to try better next time at conveying sarcasm seeing as I'm not the only one who took you seriously.

 

[Miguel81]

Give the option to turn this off, as it's about time to treat console gamers with some form of respect. Still pissed about AC 3 PC!!