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[punkmaggit]

Nintendo did an absolutely HORRIBLE job of making the WiiU seem like a new console. I was in Gamestop the other day and heard two people ask what the WiiU was. 4 years after it came out and there are people who still don't know. You couldn't go anywhere without hearing about the Wii when it came out.

 

[sd28821]

someone = the whole company?

oh so i did read the quote correctly

 

[LegendofLex]

In an internal sales representative meeting, someone projected that we would sell close to 100 million Wii U systems worldwide.

I wonder if that's the same someone who read this Q&A transcript and decided that Nintendo's official projections were 100 million units.

 

[tuffy]

Seems like the entire concept of the Wii U started by taking the entire Wii audience for granted, then trying to branch out to more "traditional" gamers. So I'm not surprised Nintendo thought they could sell a ton of Wii Us.

But in reality, the high price tag, a much less interesting hardware feature (the gamepad) and no killer game like Wii Sports to push that feature doomed it. Nintendo basically abandoned everything that made the Wii such a success in the first place.

 

[antonz]

There will always be the hopelessly naïve even on corporate boards etc. Wii U was a disaster in development leading to delays and redesigns. Which in turn led to them releasing an expensive tablet based console years after tablets had been flooding the market far cheaper.

Sometimes trying to be different can kick you in the ass. A Simple Wii HD in 2010 could have had a very different fate than the Wii U. Instead Nintendo felt a simple Wii HD would not be attractive enough and needed a new hook. They could have had the Wii HD out with the hook being better graphics and an enhanced library of support early enough to still ride on the brand hype of the Wii.

 

[AmyS]

Nintendo did an absolutely HORRIBLE job of making the WiiU seem like a new console. I was in Gamestop the other day and heard two people ask what the WiiU was. 4 years after it came out and there are people who still don't know. You couldn't go anywhere without hearing about the Wii when it came out.

Yup, and 5 years after WiiU's reveal at E3 2011.

 

[PhilipDoesMatter]

With this inexplicable name that does NOT differentiate from Wii to the casuals ... please fire these analysts.

 

[CosmicQueso]

And they'll have similar lofty expectations for the next box.

If belief like this didn't exist, they'd never make the consoles to begin with.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

The OP's title is flawed but, having said that, let's not kid ourselves....Nintendo certainly weren't expecting to sell 12 million units either.

 

[DaleinCalgary]

If they drop the price to $50 it's possible.

 

[Neff]

I seem to remember Kimishima having reservations about Wii U during development, so something's not adding up.

Either way, Nintendo was somehow collectively completely oblivious as to where the Wii's reputation sat with gamers in 2011. The high profile games were still selling, and with that amazing install base you'd expect them to, but for most, the Wii experience was truly over.

The Wii association alone (and Nintendo's non-existent efforts to disassociate Wii U with Wii, leading to consumer confusion and indifference) is by far Wii U's biggest fumble.

I remember when I "pessimistically" capped Wii U sales at 50m, with my expectations in the 30s.

I called 30m by the end of its production. Depending on how NX plays out, it'll be lucky to get half that. I think the product as it stands could have achieved that, but too much damage was done with its initial showings, subsequent dearth of effective promotion, and consistent droughts.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

The OP's title is flawed but, having said that, let's not kid ourselves....Nintendo certainly weren't expecting to sell 12 million units either.

No shit but the title is stupid.

 

[Wagram]

I don't know how Nintendo can win to be honest. The hardcore crowd clearly isn't enough as evidenced by the Wii U, and the casual crowd is always a gamble.

 

[VariantX]

100 million units with no games for most of the first year, a divisive hardware feature with no mass market appeal, and no big third party support to fill the release gaps. All this while letting the wii die a prolonged death, giving consumers time to move on to tabets and other consoles that better serve their needs.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

No shit but the title is stupid.

Well we know the title is stupid that's the only addition you've added to the thread. Any insight on the figure think it's too high? Was it unrealistic. We're they to dependant on the Wii name.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Well we know the title is stupid that's the only addition you've added to the thread. Any insight on the figure think it's too high? Was it unrealistic. We're they to dependant on the Wii name.

I think that single person is out of their mind.

 

[Kyzer]

No games meant no sales meant third party support dried up meant there was no value to justify it for the eventual handful of gems to the mainstream consumer. Not to mention nintendo had the terrible idea of naming everything in a confusing way. 2ds is the same as 3ds but Wii u is a separate console from Wii even though the branding is identical...fr a company that likes to appeal to everyone they did a terrible job

 

[antonz]

Well we know the title is stupid that's the only addition you've added to the thread. Any insight on the figure think it's too high? Was it unrealistic. We're they to dependant on the Wii name.

Not sure what kind of discussion you are expecting. This is Gaf. 75% of posts will be made after simply reading a bullshit thread title and have some snarky Nintendo is stupid style post.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Not sure what kind of discussion you are expecting. This is Gaf. 75% of posts will be made after simply reading a bullshit thread title and have some snarky Nintendo is stupid style post.

Silly me

 

[120v]

I don't know how Nintendo can win to be honest. The hardcore crowd clearly isn't enough as evidenced by the Wii U, and the casual crowd is always a gamble.

hardcore crowd may have been enough, if the system was more appealing to them

 

[Crimson_Gold]

Even if the title is incorrect, there truly had to be an expectation that the console would sell much better than it has. I would not be surprised if they believed they could recreate Wii numbers with the inclusion of the "tablet-like" controller. Apparently the company was wrong.

 

[LegendofLex]

Wii U definitely gave off vibes that "now that Wii has hooked the masses, we can convert them to GameCube-like games by tacking on Wii branding and controls!"

As if branding and controls have anything to do with why the market rejected the kinds of games they were making for GameCube.

You can even see this with late-life Wii games like Skyward Sword and Other M.

 

[Pancakes R Us]

Would have helped if they told people what it was and actually advertised it.

Doesn't matter. Some people know what it is and still don't care for it. You can have the best marketing in the world, but if the product doesn't appeal, it isn't going anywhere. At all. Fast.

Who it appealed to: the super-core Nintendo fanbase, mainly. Which is a decreasing base.

 

[fhqwhgads]

I don't see the point of this thread. It just screams as an excuse for yet another Wii U bashing thread, like we didn't have enough of those already. Quick, someone find another Miyamoto quote to make a thread about so we can have another "Miyamoto is a senile dinosaur who should be fired" thread.

 

[Rapscallion]

Honestly it was bad marketting. They should have never called it the Wii U.

I still meet people who believe it's the same console as the Wii and don't know its the successor console.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

No shit but the title is stupid.

Yeah, like I said, the OP's title is flawed. And also, it's fine we say this in hindsight, but if Nintendo had come out and said they expected to sell 100m Wii U's lifetime before the thing came out, there are lot of people on here that wouldn't bat an eye lid. There are a lot of people on these boards and across the web who thought Wii U was a sure fire hit.

 

[OCD Guy]

Honestly it was bad marketting. They should have never called it the Wii U.

I still meet people who believe it's the same console as the Wii and don't know its the successor console.

The name certainly didn't help, but I think they were doomed regardless.

The majority of people that bought a wii i.e non gamers traditionally, had long lost interest in the original wii let alone buying a successor of some sort, and the Fifa, GTA and Call of Duty guys who tend to make up the majority of ps4 and Xbox sales are happy with their consoles.

While many are quick to say that Nintendo shouldn't go with another gimmick, I think that it's the only way for them to have a chance at success.

I would bet money on it that a traditional console from Nintendo wouldn't do that well nowadays either.

As someone who grew up on intendo and that loves the experiences they provide with certain games I do want them to do well.

 

[Jubenhimer]

Wii U definitely gave off vibes that "now that Wii has hooked the masses, we can convert them to GameCube-like games by tacking on Wii branding and controls!"

As if branding and controls have anything to do with why the market rejected the kinds of games they were making for GameCube.

You can even see this with late-life Wii games like Skyward Sword and Other M.

What Nintendo failed to realize is that you can't force consumers to graduate into complex games if they don't want to, it's up to them to make that decision. They also can't win casuals with overpriced rehashes of Wii content expecting them to come like mindless sheep. The audience Nintendo won over with the Wii isn't like typical game consumers, you can't use the same tactics you used in the 90s to create brand loyalty, you have to give them something relevant to their lives as technology keeps evolving. If you don't do that, you have failed.

I remember Miyamoto saying how casual gamers are pathetic because they have the mentality of "I'm the consumer, you're supposed to entertain me". Uh.. YES Miyamoto, you ARE supposed to entertain your consumers, it's business 101. And blaming your consumers for the reason you couldn't make an adequate product, comes off as incredibly petty and condescending to the very audience you entertained. Fortunately, I don't think what he said will have much impact considering he's not even involved in the NX's development, hell he isn't even spearheading game development anymore. So all of this basically means nothing.

 

[……forgetit]

I hear this a lot from Nintendo, every criticism and piece of advice is an insult there.

 

[LegendofLex]

What Nintendo failed to realize is that you can't force consumers to graduate into complex games if they don't want to, it's up to them to make that decision.

I think the mistake is thinking that the reason why people didn't pick up certain Wii games and most Wii U games is because they're "complex."

It's because they're not really worth people's time or the cost of entry.

They also can't win casuals with overpriced rehashes of Wii content expecting them to come like mindless sheep.

Or, in the case of Nintendo Land, games that look crappy and by virtue of their being overstuffed with Nintendo IP are really only appealing to diehard Nintendo fans.

I remember Miyamoto saying how casual gamers are pathetic because they have the mentality of "I'm the consumer, you're supposed to entertain me". Uh.. YES Miyamoto, you ARE supposed to entertain your consumers, it's business 101. And blaming your consumers for the reason you couldn't make an adequate product, comes off as incredibly petty and condescending to the very audience you entertained. Fortunately, I don't think what he said will have much impact considering he's even involved in the NX's development, hell he isn't even spearheading game development anymore. So all of this basically means nothing.

Yes, this exactly.

Nintendo can never expect to have success with a market if they treat them like second-class customers. They won with Wii because they treated non-customers like first-class customers. That meant making games that the egos within Nintendo might not have wanted to make otherwise, and making and marketing them with the passion they typically poured into their vanity projects. Why? Because they needed customers to have a future.

It doesn't help that most of (not all of, but most of) Nintendo's most successful games succeeded because they were made to be appealing to people who until they were released had been non-customers.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Just further cements my belief about Nintendo and how the Wii and DS came about.

I'm hoping the NX really is a hybrid. It'll show Nintendo knows the best path forward for themselves.

 

[Blueingreen]

Just further cements my belief about Nintendo and how the Wii and DS came about.

I'm hoping the NX really is a hybrid. It'll show Nintendo knows the best path forward for themselves.

I'm interested, you wouldn't mind elaborating ?

 

[Poimandres]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know what the expectations were for the Wii? Obviously they were hoping for higher than Gamecube sales, but do we have internal sales projections or anything?

I remember when the DS was revealed it was being talked about as a "third pillar" so its success seemingly caught Nintendo off guard.

I guess the moral of the story is that sales projections are hard!

 

[Harmen]

Holy shit, that actually surprises me a lot. I get high projections and confidence in your product, but this seems a bit... naive?

 

[Hilarion]

The Wii U had horrible to nonexistent marketing and a terrible name that caused tremendous confusion as to whether it was even a video game system.

I pretty strongly feel that if:

A. the Wii U were named something like "Super Wii" or even "Wii 2"

and

B. it came out in 2011 rather than 2012, with its software schedule moved up a year accordingly

With no change to the actual system it would've sold far better. B would've meant that it'd get a whole additional year of PS3/360 crossgen support to build up its initial library and A would've helped with the confusion that it was a Wii peripheral.

 

[zma1013]

The name certainly didn't help, but I think they were doomed regardless.

The majority of people that bought a wii i.e non games traditionally had long lost interest in the original wii let alone buying a successor of some sort, and the Fifa, GTA and Call of Duty guys who tend to make up the majority of ps4 and Xbox sales are happy with their consoles.

While many are quick to say that Nintendo shouldn't go with another gimmick, I think that it's the only way for them to have a chance at success.

I would bet money on it that a traditional console from Nintendo wouldn't do that well nowadays either.

It's certainly no garauntee for success considering the deep hole they've dug themselves into, but if they could offer what everyone else offered AND their own Nintendo games and innovation, I think they could find more success but for a long time now they have given up on competing.

I don't think resting on gimmicks is a good business strategy as Wii was an outlier. Instead, they need to focus on 1 of 2 things, 1.) Craft a system and business plan that can be sustained solely from their own output and smaller sales that can exist alongside Sony or Microsoft or 2.) Actually compete against Microsoft and Sony for similar markets.

The second option would surely be the most difficult to achieve considering how strong and powerful footholds Sony and Micro have now, if Nintendo even has the capability to compete.

 

[Champion]

A terrible console and just one more thing added to what's probably been a nightmare gen for Nintendo. I dont feel bad for them though since they mailed it in at the end of last gen and continue to repeat mistakes.

Holy shit, that actually surprises me a lot. I get high projections and confidence in your product, but this seems a bit... naive?

Its easy to make his claim in hindsight.

 

[Chris R]

Naming the thing Wii2 (or Super Wii) would not have pushed sales to 100,000,000 units. The tablet cost too much to build meaning Nintendo couldn't cut the price to keep sales high. It was also lacking something like Wii Sports that gets sales and word of mouth off to a very hot start.

 

[Schnozberry]

I remember Miyamoto saying how casual gamers are pathetic because they have the mentality of "I'm the consumer, you're supposed to entertain me". Uh.. YES Miyamoto, you ARE supposed to entertain your consumers, it's business 101. And blaming your consumers for the reason you couldn't make an adequate product, comes off as incredibly petty and condescending to the very audience you entertained. Fortunately, I don't think what he said will have much impact considering he's even involved in the NX's development, hell he isn't even spearheading game development anymore. So all of this basically means nothing.

Here's the quote, since you're using it out of context and mischaracterizing his use of the word pathetic.

Miyamoto and his staff are not designing games for “the sort of people who, for example, might want to watch a movie. They might want to go to Disneyland. Their attitude is, ‘OK, I am the customer. You are supposed to entertain me.’ It’s kind of a passive attitude they’re taking, and to me it’s kind of a pathetic thing. They do not know how interesting it is if you move one step further and try to challenge yourself. [If you do that,] you’re going to learn how fun it is.”

He's essentially saying he feels sadness when thinking about people who fail to grasp the depth of video games and instead treat them as movies where the work is done for them.

It's not nearly as condescending or rude as you're making it out to be, and it's more of a defense of video games as an art form than anything. He's just pointing out the obvious that most casual gamers don't take the time to appreciate what makes video games fundamentally different than other forms of entertainment.

 

[LegendofLex]

It's certainly no garauntee for success considering the deep hole they've dug themselves into, but if they could offer what everyone else offered AND their own Nintendo games and innovation, I think they could find more success but for a long time now they have given up on competing.

This won't work because "everything everyone else offers" requires hardware specs, third-party deals and marketing prominence, cost, and a marketing strategy that basically dooms all their software.

Try to imagine Wii selling 100 million units with the PS4's lineup front and center instead of Wii Sports.

It isn't going to happen.

 

[Theanine3D]

The majority of people that bought a wii i.e non gamers traditionally, had long lost interest in the original wii let alone buying a successor of some sort..

I know the common narrative is that the Wii brand was dead when Wii U launched, but going by my own experiences, I don't think this was the case. As late as 2012, the retirement home I was working at still had Wii bowling nights every week. I also still saw Wii games being played at parties all the time (primarily Brawl, NSMB Wii, MK Wii, and Just Dance). And whenever I stepped foot in a GameStop, parents were still coming in and buying Wii games, even after the Wii U launched (I remember overhearing a parent coming in asking for Mario Kart for the Wii, even after MK8 had come out)

I honestly think casuals were actually too satisfied with the Wii, so much so that they saw no need to pay $300+ for a new box (if they actually managed to figure out that it was, in fact, a new box, and not an addon, lol). The Wii already did what they wanted, and better graphics are not a selling point to them. On top of that, it had a confusing new controller that effectively negated what was so special about the Wii to them (motion controls).

 

[Lothars]

A terrible console and just one more thing added to what's probably been a nightmare gen for Nintendo. I dont feel bad for them though since they mailed it in at the end of last gen and continue to repeat mistakes.

Its easy to make his claim in hindsight.

No It isn't, The Wii U had everything going against it since the day it was announced. Underpowered, Overpriced, Mixed Marketing.

One thing after another. Nintendo has to be more delusional than I thought if they thought it was going to sell 100 Million with how bad they marketed it.

 

[malboroking]

There is no they. It was one guy

One guy thought up the design of the WiiU? He didn't ask a question about the article, he asked why Nintendo designed the WiiU the way they did when part of the reason why the Wii was successful was because of its control scheme.

 

[zma1013]

This won't work because "everything everyone else offers" requires hardware specs, third-party deals and marketing prominence, cost, and a marketing strategy that basically dooms all their software.

Yes all of that is require to compete. That is the hole they have dug themselves into and either can't or won't try to get out.

 

[AdanVC]

Having named your console "Wii U" was the #1 reason of why this console failed tremendously and didn't even sold a quarter of that100 million units. I really really really REALLY wonder who was the person who came up with that name and I wonder if she/he was fired. It's been 4 years and I still cannot get used to that awful name.

 

[Hilarion]

Naming the thing Wii2 (or Super Wii) would not have pushed sales to 100,000,000 units.

Of course not, but I think there's definitely a universe where the Wii U, with a better rollout campaign (i.e. people actually knowing that it is a thing that exists), better branding, better marketing, and an earlier launch, sells around 30 million lifetime rather than the maybe 15 million lifetime that it's currently tracking towards. (It'll be 13 million lifetime by the end of the year and the remaining unsold stock will slowly creep it up to 14-15 million in the years to come)

In other words, an ordinary failed console rather than a catastrophe.

 

[LegendofLex]

Yes all of that is require to compete. That is the hole they have dug themselves into and either can't or won't try to get out.

And despite the current competitive landscape having this "requirement," the dedicated console market is shrinking, the space for games that don't fit the current AAA norm is shrinking, and console companies are relying largely on network services revenue to actually approach profit levels from generations ago.

It's almost like console gaming actually just sucks at entertaining people.

 

[OCD Guy]

but if they could offer what everyone else offered AND their own Nintendo games and innovation, I think they could find more success but for a long time now they have given up on competing.

What you mention is what I would absolutely love. I actually preferred to use the pro controller when possible, and hated the fact it couldn't be used on Splatoon in single player.

I just don't think that's the answer, but to be honest I've got no clue what the answer is. I tend to buy new hardware regardless, I'll buy the NX no matter what the gimmick is as I enjoy a lot of the games I find on Nintendo platforms, so I'm certainly not a good example.

I honestly think casuals were actually too satisfied with the Wii, so much so that they saw no need to pay $300+ for a new box (if they actually managed to figure out that it was, in fact, a new box, and not an addon, lol). The Wii already did what they wanted, and better graphics are not a selling point to them. On top of that, it had a confusing new controller that effectively negated what was so special about the Wii to them (motion controls).

Yeah you make a good point. The type of person that played Wii Sports had no real reason to buy a new console when the Wii done everything they needed it to do. Plus the fact not many people even knew what the hell a Wii U was didn't give them a reason to buy it.

I'm sure the same will likely apply for people with ps4's and xbox one's, as long as they can play the latest Fifa and call of duty why will they need the Neo or Scorpio initially.

I just wish there was more information on what the NX was, what the controller will be etc, and I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't be happy if Nintendo somehow hit it out the park and just get mad success with their next hardware. Obviously the Wii was an anomaly but I just hope they do well.

 

[yongeandcollege]

Has to make it a worse bomba than Ps3. PS3 didn't hit Sony's targets but even if Sony expected 150 million, the WiiU did worse.

 

[Carl7]

Guys, I came here for the memes and I'm disappointed.