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[UnluckyKate]

I'll never understand people like you who like to jump on the bandwagon of hating popular game designers. What exactly did he do?

He's not humble.

He's coming with a (great) game but in a saturated market and he acts like his game in the second coming of the entire FPS genre.

So of course people mock him because... he's full of himself brining something that looks very similar to everything made in the past couple of years.

Gamers won't quit CS GO, Overwatch or Call of Duty / BF to play this. Gamers don't change heavily on game they invested time and money. This, sadly, no matter how good it is, brings nothing to the table to make FPS player come and stay.

Another very sad reallity is that a game needs to be accessible and easy for most people to have fun. There must be something for every player. That's why CoD is so popular, they took out skill so far out of the hands of players that now anybody can run, get a quick cheap kill and feel so rewarded for it with huge medals, XP numbers poping on screen and huge progress bar at the end of the match no matter their performance. A game like Lawbreaker is for a hardcore skilled niche of player. This has 0 mass public appeal. It's competing against super niche games

 

[Gaz_RB]

I'll never understand people like you who like to jump on the bandwagon of hating popular game designers. What exactly did he do?

Cliffy's a showboating dick.

 

[-MD-]

The Lawbreakers gameplay really is amazing. Too bad the game is broken (matchmaking, too few maps, low population, etc) that made me lose interest in it (no motivation - no care). Maybe when Lawbreakers' patched a lot with tweaks, added with more maps, better matchmaking, etc - I'll start to care. But for now, yea.

Lack of players causing long matchmaking times and too few maps doesn't make a game "broken".

 

[SimpleCRIPPLE]

How was he a douche???

Some really dumb reasoning. "Person X said something I don't agree with - he's a douche!!!!"

“I went into their office and said i’m going to make the next billion dollar franchise.”

“We’re making the Dark Souls of shooters.”

“Overwatch is for the anime crowd.” (Something to that effect)

“None of that $60 multiplayer online bullshit.”


He came off as an arrogant prick (which he’s admitted), and that tends to make people root against you. Has nothing to do with a disagreement of ideas, and everything to do with how you present your message. You want to bring in people, not alienate entire groups.

 

[maverickjesus]

Being a douche isn't a good reason to completely shit on a game and take joy in its misfortune. There are plenty of games that genuinely deserve that sort of response, this isn't one of them.

 

[killroy87]

I'll never understand people like you who like to jump on the bandwagon of hating popular game designers. What exactly did he do?

It's not that he did anything, but he certainly has an arrogance about him that can be off putting to some. It's just one of those things where if you go in to a room talking the loudest, you better have something pretty damn good to say.

 

[Nesmaster75]

I played the beta and was just left thinking "why would I buy this?", there are better shooters on the market that I'm already invested in.

I mean, they're asking a fair price point and the gameplay is straight up fun. Takes a bit to find out which character you gel with, but the movement/momentum building in zero g is amazing. It's disappointing how people write this game off so quickly by having never played it or only playing for an hour.

 

[888]

None of that kiddie bumpers games or whatever Cliff was saying. Their attitude and arrogance didn't help. I'll play Overwatch all day long for its personality alone.

 

[Marcel]

I mean, they're asking a fair price point and the gameplay is straight up fun. Takes a bit to find out which character you gel with, but the movement/momentum building in zero g is amazing. It's disappointing how people write this game off so quickly by having never played it or only playing for an hour.

Asking for a price at all seems to be one of the reasons the game has no player population. Gamers don't seem to think it's even worth the small amount being asked.

 

[dottme]

I mean, they're asking a fair price point and the gameplay is straight up fun. Takes a bit to find out which character you gel with, but the movement/momentum building in zero g is amazing. It's disappointing how people write this game off so quickly by having never played it or only playing for an hour.

Is there any demo or way to try it?
Else, you have to make your choice based on what you have. That's the choice of the publisher, not the player.

 

[Nabbis]

All i can think of when reading this thread is that "leave Britney alone" gif.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

This game is basically flatlining now.

I feel bad for the devs. But this is a deadly market, the one they choose to fight in.

 

[Nesmaster75]

It's not that he did anything, but he certainly has an arrogance about him that can be off putting to some. It's just one of those things where if you go in to a room talking the loudest, you better have something pretty damn good to say.

Why should that matter though? I guess I just don't understand why people care so much. If the dev makes a fun game, I'm going to play it. A single person coming off as cocky isn't gonna make me avoid a great game. I started feeling this way after the Phil Fish fiasco with Fez 2. I understand he was acting immature, but he's a solid game designer who made a fun game with other devs.

 

[Marcel]

Is there any demo or way to try it?
Else, you have to make your choice based on what you have. That's the choice of the publisher, not the player.

The game was going to be F2P before LawBreakers fans demanded it be a traditional retail model. In a way the fans were partially the blame for the game's doom by demanding they go that route.

 

[Nesmaster75]

Asking for a price at all seems to be one of the reasons the game has no player population. Gamers don't seem to think it's even worth the small amount being asked.

Because gamers are usually lazy and make half ass comparisons to it with Overwatch without actually playing it. This isn't a game you can watch someone stream on Twitch and judge it, I feel you really have to play it for yourself to understand its mechanics.

 

[Chobel]

It's dead, Jim.

 

[iHaunter]

Damn that's terrible.

 

[Marcel]

Because gamers are usually lazy and make half ass comparisons to it with Overwatch without actually playing it. This isn't a game you can watch someone stream on Twitch and judge it, I feel you really have to play it for yourself to understand its mechanics.

Maybe Cliffy and his team at Boss Key should have accounted for that rather than try to fight a battle they could never win.

 

[killroy87]

Why should that matter though? I guess I just don't understand why people care so much. If the dev makes a fun game, I'm going to play it. A single person coming off as cocky isn't gonna make me avoid a great game. I started feeling this way after the Phil Fish fiasco with Fez 2. I understand he was acting immature, but he's a solid game designer who made a fun game with other devs.

I'm not saying his attitude kept me from playing the game (it was releasing another FPS in a sea of already very good FPS titles that did that), but I'm just saying it doesn't help matters.

I played the beta, and it was definitely a decent enough game, but the last thing I need in my life right now is yet another hero/class based shooter.

 

[Yawnier]

Never have been a fan of Cliffy but will say that this game looks pretty fun and I'll give it a try when it hits the $10 bargain bin or F2P. Whichever comes first.

 

[Nesmaster75]

Is there any demo or way to try it?
Else, you have to make your choice based on what you have. That's the choice of the publisher, not the player.

No demo yet, but more than likely they'll have a F2P weekend soon based on the amount of active players.

 

[Otaku Coder]

The devs' hearts must have sank when, a mere handful of months before their multiplayer shooter launches, PUBG came out of absolutely nowhere to sell millions of copies and dominate that space.

It's not the only factor for sure, but good God this industry is merciless.

 

[SimpleCRIPPLE]

Because gamers are usually lazy and make half ass comparisons to it with Overwatch without actually playing it. This isn't a game you can watch someone stream on Twitch and judge it, I feel you really have to play it for yourself to understand its mechanics.

If that’s the kind of game they want to make, then they should. But then people can’t be pissed that no one is “getting it” and the game is dying. If the game needs to be played to be understood, then the dev’s should had recognized that and had an open console “beta / demo” or a free timed trial ready at launch. Especially when you’re launching a new franchise in a crowded genre.

Playing Overwatch a few weeks early cemented it as a Day 1 purchase for me and my friends.

 

[Drillary Clinton]

Because gamers are usually lazy and make half ass comparisons to it with Overwatch without actually playing it. This isn't a game you can watch someone stream on Twitch and judge it, I feel you really have to play it for yourself to understand its mechanics.

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't cliffy compare this game to OW multiple times? I swear I remember seeing something where he said, and I'm paraphrasing here, "it's like overwatch for adults".

 

[E92 M3]

i dunno, his defense on the writing was kinda off-putting

Off-putting, sure - but not a douche.

“I went into their office and said i’m going to make the next billion dollar franchise.”

“We’re making the Dark Souls of shooters.”

“Overwatch is for the anime crowd.” (Something to that effect)

“None of that $60 multiplayer online bullshit.”


He came off as an arrogant prick (which he’s admitted), and that tends to make people root against you. Has nothing to do with a disagreement of ideas, and everything to do with how you present your message. You want to bring in people, not alienate entire groups.

Point 1: What's wrong with ambition? It's a good character trait.
Point 2: Ok? Dark Souls is a good franchise - always want more of that inspiration.
Point 3: I need the direct quote - "something to that effect" doesn't cut it.
Point 4: No one wants to pay $60 dollar for a MP game. $30 is the perfect price.

Don't see how anything he said is volatile or arrogant. I'm also an adult, so maybe younger folk think differently.

 

[Mass Effect]

Because gamers are usually lazy and make half ass comparisons to it with Overwatch without actually playing it. This isn't a game you can watch someone stream on Twitch and judge it, I feel you really have to play it for yourself to understand its mechanics.

lmao nobody's going to drop $30+ just to try a game they weren't hot on in the first place.

If the game really needs to be played to "get" it, then maybe they should put out a demo. Until then, gamers are not "lazy" for not wanting to spend their own money on a game they don't want to play.

 

[Zeneric]

Lack of players causing long matchmaking times and too few maps doesn't make a game "broken".

Not talking bout the long matchmaking time. I noticed teams tend to get unbalanced at first but when the same people stick for another game, the teams get balanced better.

 

[Marcel]

Never have been a fan of Cliffy but will say that this game looks pretty fun and I'll give it a try when it hits the $10 bargain bin or F2P. Whichever comes first.

The game isn't treading water, it's drowning. So they would be smart to adopt the F2P model they were originally going to go with to try to get ANYONE playing this game like yesterday. A discount doesn't strike me as anything more than a band-aid.

 

[Gestault]

I'll never understand people like you who like to jump on the bandwagon of hating popular game designers. What exactly did he do?

So even ignoring people's frustrations with tone or the pitch or whatever, I think a project lead who tries to push another title in a pretty saturated market that requires a player base to be worthwhile is prone to backlash when that effort ends up not being worth it to players or the studio, mid or long-term.

I think there's some unwarranted hostility, but mostly, I think he's just the icon for the project, so that negativity gets focused.

Because gamers are usually lazy and make half ass comparisons to it with Overwatch without actually playing it. This isn't a game you can watch someone stream on Twitch and judge it, I feel you really have to play it for yourself to understand its mechanics.

If players don't find the game appealing, that's an issue of the game and how it's presented. If it looks enough like games people are already having fun playing (in a online multi-player setting), there's no reason for them to stop playing those games to buy a different game they might like.

The hardware comparison I always make still applies here: LawBreakers is the Zune, wanting to supplant the iPod. My feeling is the people behind the project should have understood this coming in. Honestly, it's one of the reason I think single-player games are so important, long-term, for the industry. Those games aren't zero-sum, the way similar multiplayer games can be.

 

[CaptainofIndustry]

He used to call himself the Tony Stark of the gaming industry 😂😂😂😂😂😂.

 

[fluffydelusions]

The devs' hearts must have sank when, a mere handful of months before their multiplayer shooter launches, PUBG came out of absolutely nowhere to sell millions of copies and dominate that space.

I mean it didn't really come out of nowhere. It was announced a year prior and the creator was the one who made the arma mod and consulted for h1z1.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayerUnknown's_Battlegrounds#Development

Now the sales...yeah...I don't think anyone knew it would sell crazy like it is lol.

 

[Marcel]

He used to call himself the Tony Stark of the gaming industry 😂😂😂😂😂😂.

More like the Brendan Fraser of the gaming industry

 

[Atom Heart Mother]

Game looks fun but god the character designs are so bland and boring.

 

[Taruranto]

Over watch
Battle Born
Law Breakers

Why do they keep doing this.

 

[SimpleCRIPPLE]

Off-putting, sure - but not a douche.



Point 1: What's wrong with ambition? It's a good character trait.
Point 2: Ok? Dark Souls is a good franchise - always want more of that inspiration.
Point 3: I need the direct quote - "something to that effect" doesn't cut it.
Point 4: No one wants to pay $60 dollar for a MP game. $30 is the perfect price.

Don't see how anything he said is volatile or arrogant. I'm also an adult, so maybe younger folk think differently.

Point 1 “This is my idea and I want to make it your next billion dollar franchise.” One is arrogant, one is confident.”
Point 2 - Darks Souls also dominates its genre. So insinuating your game will do the same is a tough bar to clear.
Point 3 - “Overwatch feels like its skewed towards, you know, kind of an anime fan” https://youtu.be/YwxU2t6Tnnw?t=1m22s
Point4 - Overwatch and its $60 price tag on console says hello. If your game is good, people will pay the full $60 for the experience. Hell, even on PC Overewatch is $40 and its doing just fine there as well.

We have a difference in opinion on what constitutes arrogant vs confident, but even if he didn’t come off that way to you, he’s clearly rubbed a lot of people the wrong way.

 

[Marcel]

Point 1 ”This is my idea and I want to make it your next billion dollar franchise." One is arrogant, one is confident."
Point 2 - Darks Souls also dominates its genre. So insinuating your game will do the same is a tough bar to clear.
Point 3 - ”Overwatch feels like its skewed towards, you know, kind of an anime fan" https://youtu.be/YwxU2t6Tnnw?t=1m22s
Point4 - Overwatch and its $60 price tag on console says hello. If your game is good, people will pay the full $60 for the experience. Hell, even on PC Overewatch is $40 and its doing just fine there as well.

We have a difference in opinion on what constitutes arrogant vs confident, but even if he didn't come off that way to you, he's clearly rubbed a lot of people the wrong way.

E92 M3 is a LawBreakers stan who does this "I'm an old man and [flimsy argument]" thing in every thread about LawBreakers. Don't bother.

 

[cripterion]

Damn just feel bad for my man Cola, how are you going to do him like this after Planetside 2?

 

[pretty done]

It's a shame, because it's a very good game.

I got about 10 hours out of it, so I'm not too upset. I'm more happy that I didn't miss it.

This makes me sad. I bought it on PS4 and played it a lot in the first week, have slowly slid off. I wanted other people to keep at it though in case I wanted to go back and play! Cor.

even the people who liked it don't play anymore :x

 

[benzopil]

Yup there is. And it's quite sad that the inclusiveness of the game, like anything else positive about the game, gets so overshadowed by the low player count. The poor sales and hating on Cliffy B is all people seem to care about when it comes to this. The characters get mocked for being uninspiring/dull, but not complimented for being diverse.

Because you should try really hard to make super different super diverse heroes and make them ALL look absolutely the same. Boss Key managed to do that.

I like this game very much but since their marketing is almost non-existent, even Deviantart artists won't help to promote this game because of dull character designs.

 

[Neuromancer]

I'll never understand people like you who like to jump on the bandwagon of hating popular game designers. What exactly did he do?

Well for starters he called people on this forum 'mostly cunts', which some people took exception to.

Really though I don't harbor any ill will towards him. I've been following him since the early 2000's when he had a website called Cliffyb's Ownage where he posted Unreal Tournament maps he found and liked. I don't want this game to fail. In fact if it had had bots I probably would have bought it day one.

 

[E92 M3]

E92 M3 is a LawBreakers stan who does this "I'm an old man and [flimsy argument]" thing in every thread about LawBreakers. Don't bother.

Every thread????

 

[DrBo42]

Is it possible to course correct? Would going f2p just result in the same thing that happened to Evolve? Do they have enough funds to make changes and keep staff on for another year? Two years?

 

[Goodacre0081]

should have tried another cover shooter instead of trying to find a spot in the crowded FPS segment.

 

[Marcel]

Every thread????

There are only like two that I know of aside from the OT and they are both about how this game has an no player growth and no legs.

 

[Iorv3th]

even the people who liked it don't play anymore :x

I stopped playing because I couldn't find matches. I don't have the patience to set in matchmaking for 15+ minutes at a time.

Should make it F2P. They already have loot crates etc. Just add more stuff to it. Give people that bought the game something extra. Get the player count up.

 

[PedroLumpy]

Another unsuccessful multiplayer shooter seems barely noteworthy. I'm surprised Lawbreakers gets so much attention. This much bad word of mouth could actually hurt a F2P launch.

 

[chronic_archaic]

I mean, out of Western game designers... I think Cliffy has a profile way stronger than most other people in the industry.

Jazz
Unreal
Unreal Tournament
Gears of War

And their sequels/iterations - I think in particular a lot of people forget how ahead of it's time Unreal was when it launched. It was an absolute technical marvel but they built off of that to make the best arena shooter ever (in my opinion of course)

And of course UE3 again was way ahead of everybody in 2006, although I can't say Gears of War is one of my favorite products Epic brought out ever.

 

[Budi]

Game looks fun but god the character designs are so bland and boring.

The point is to shoot them, they move fast so you don't really have much time to admire the art anyway. The shooting and movement is the highlight in this game, not how it looks. I get the appreciation for art design, but when it comes to competitive shooters it's not or atleast shouldn't be top priority.

Point 1 ”This is my idea and I want to make it your next billion dollar franchise." One is arrogant, one is confident."
Point 2 - Darks Souls also dominates its genre. So insinuating your game will do the same is a tough bar to clear.
Point 3 - ”Overwatch feels like its skewed towards, you know, kind of an anime fan" https://youtu.be/YwxU2t6Tnnw?t=1m22s
Point4 - Overwatch and its $60 price tag on console says hello. If your game is good, people will pay the full $60 for the experience. Hell, even on PC Overewatch is $40 and its doing just fine there as well.

1. He approached big publishers, having the backing of Ubisoft or similar in example the game would have sold way much more than 60k on PC.
2. What is this genre that Dark Souls dominates and how? Those are good games for sure, but dominates is a strong word.
3. And it does appeal to many anime fans, it's clear from the fan art thread alone. And wouldn't it be better to post the clip on it's entire context rather than a gag reel? https://youtu.be/Z-V74wkp5CM?t=267 This interview where he throws a shade towards the game his wife plays by calling it fantastic. How arrogant!
4. The cries about Rainbow Six Siege and Battlefront not having SP campaigns say hello, but yeah Blizzard got a pass I agree on that. Not sure why though.

 

[Hari Seldon]

I was a big UT fan, but that was like 10+ years ago. I highly doubt I still have any of those skills, and I'm too old to dedicate everything to recapture them. That is why I loved Doom so much, it was a taste of The Old Way but no one had to see my shame. It is really hard for a new studio to compete in a zero sum genre like multiplayer FPSs. PUBG had a dedicated hardcore following even before it launched due to fans of PU's mods.

 

[Teasing_Pink]

“We’re making the Dark Souls of shooters.”

Is that an actual quote? What the hell does that even mean?