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LTTP: Sometimes Gamers Suck - Bioshock 2 Does Not

K

Kevin Shields

Member
Prince of Space said:
A lot of the reactions to BioShock 2 remind me a fair bit of Super Mario Galaxy 2 in that both games are absolutely an improvement on their predecessors, but because those first games were so massive when they landed, their sequels tend to be judged by many as expansion packs, at best.
Click to expand...

You are absolutely spot on with that comparison. Which boggles my mind how that game still got all 10/10 scores, best play former ever etc. and Bioshock 2 was the straight to DVD trash B team cash grab sequel. I prefer Super Mario Galaxy but I can understand the quality of SMG 2
 
S

Symbiotx

Member
I'm definitely not in the camp that says 2 sucks, in fact I liked it a lot! However, it's not the best in my eyes. It has good gameplay, but I feel it's the weakest as far as setting/ambience and story. The first had such a creepy feel with a good story that was just awesome. The third had a new direction that was great as well. The second was good but not as original. However, the multiplayer in 2 was awesome and I don't think people gave it enough of a shot.

Each of the three are awesome and have different pros and cons. In the end, just be glad you played it, and whoever said to skip it is dummy.
 
R

RadarScope1

Member
Modest Mauser said:
Imo it still is the video game equivalent of a direct-to-DVD sequel. If you care about gameplay above all, it's definitely a tighter experience but the first Bioshock was memorable for its story and setting which are very blandly recycled for 2.
Click to expand...

I mean, varying degrees of recycled bullshit in sequels is kind what the video game industry is built upon, right? Not that this is a good thing, but it's not some great sin against game development.
 
MistBreeze

MistBreeze

Member
Bioshock 2 has the best gameplay in the series and the parts where you defend little sisters is one of the best exhilarating and thrilling moments ever.
And big sisters fights are fast and intense

Also
the part when you fight two big sisters at once Ooooh maaan mind blown
 
F

FutureLarking

Member
I'll add that it's multiplayer was actually kind of awesome and had full story that filled in the blanks about the down fall of Rapture. The only downside was the frame rate could tank and mess with your controls, but multiplayer plasmids, hacking and Big Daddies was some of the most fun I had last gen. It's a real shame the collection missed out on out, because out really was a great part of the game. People hated on it because they said Bioshock didn't need multiplayer.

Splinter Cell didn't need multiplayer, Assassins Creed didn't need multiplayer. They're all still fantastic slices of action.

(Ken Levine had also never played Bioshock 2, even after making the Infinite DLC. I am dissapoint)
 
M

Morts

Member
I just replayed 1 and 2 in the PS4 collection which reinforced 2 as my favorite. It plays so much better than the original, and the pacing never languishes the way the first game does after its climax.

Maybe I'll start up Minerva's Den tonight.
 
G

Gravidee

Member
Izuna said:
Nah, because BioShock 2 happens in the same universe as the original. Infinite completely changes how certain things were done so it made it non-canon
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According to the wiki, it says that the pair bonding used for the alpha series was deemed inadequate, hence the need for Lot 255.

And I wouldn't be sure about Bioshock 2 being non-canon either. Though there are no outright references to characters from it, there are two locations referred to in Burial at Sea that only appeared in 2: Dionysus Park and Adonis Luxury Resort, the latter of which
was seen on the map of places Atlas and his folks planned to attack.
There are some other small references too like the Rapture Tribune, only mentioned by Stanley in Bioshock 2 but you see the paper in BaS.
 
I

Izuna

Banned
Gravidee said:
According to the wiki, it says that the pair bonding used for the alpha series was deemed inadequate, hence the need for Lot 255.

And I wouldn't be sure about Bioshock 2 being non-canon either. Though there are no outright references to characters from it, there are two locations referred to in Burial at Sea that only appeared in 2: Dionysus Park and Adonis Luxury Resort, the latter of which
was seen on the map of places Atlas and his folks planned to attack.
There are some other small references too like the Rapture Tribune, only mentioned by Stanley in Bioshock 2 but you see the paper in BaS.
Click to expand...

End of DLC 1,
There's no way he would be called Mr. Bubbles, or that he would protect her
based on what we know about from DLC 2.

On top of that, the whole bonding process etc. was explained in BioShock 2. The only way it isn't a retcon is it somehow both scientists figured it out independently, which would make even less sense. Especially from the point of view of where the plasmids come from...

They clearly didn't give two shits about staying true to BioShock 2 and instead forced a story to bridge Infinite into the Original. Now, Infinite was enjoyable (DLC), it just doesn't fit if you've played 2.
 
I

Izuna

Banned
Nostremitus said:
Infinite DLC doesn't take place in the same universe as 1 and 2.
Click to expand...

Except it's literally the only purpose the story serves, is to lead up to the events that allow BioShock 1 to happen...

So yes, it is definitely implied that it does. Especially since you see
a flashforward of the good ending for BioShock 1
 
J

Jaraghan

Member
Love it. Only thing I didn't like, was that I wish there was a name drop for Lamb in BS1. Something to tie it together a bit more. Lamb comes out of nowhere in BS2. I know she was locked up, but still.

Also, I found the DLC to be overrated. I saw the twist coming from a mile away though, so that may have soured my thoughts on it.
 
K

KatamariOnTheRocks

Member
Totally agree, I played Bioshock 2 on launch and knew people were full of shit for trashing it.
I enjoyed it just as much if not more than the first game, you're right in you're title though, people have abysmal taste in games. Look at the general reception to Lawbreakers and Agents of Mayhem recently, both phenomenal games that people want to fail because they have awful taste in games.
 
H

HotHamBoy

Member
Gonna echo that Bioshock 2 >> Bioshock 1 >>>>>>> Infinite

Who the fuck values story over gameplay in a videogame? Go read a book.

Prince of Space said:
A lot of the reactions to BioShock 2 remind me a fair bit of Super Mario Galaxy 2 in that both games are absolutely an improvement on their predecessors, but because those first games were so massive when they landed, their sequels tend to be judged by many as expansion packs, at best.
Click to expand...

Agreed, though Galaxy 2 was the same team.

Galaxy 2 is just a better game. Better level design and presentation. Again, I really don't need an epic story for my Mario games (or a hub world, just get me into the damn levels).
 
T

TheSpaceBetween

Member
It's the best game in the series. Perhaps not from a story standpoint but overall it's great and doesn't have any of the weaknesses that B and BI have. I desperately want another another game in Columbia, without Levine in there shitting things up and taking 6 years to make.
 
K

Kevin Shields

Member
TheSpaceBetween said:
It's the best game in the series. Perhaps not from a story standpoint but overall it's great and doesn't have any of the weaknesses that B and BI have. I desperately want another another game in Columbia, without Levine in there shitting things up and taking 6 years to make.
Click to expand...

It has been since release day that I played infinite so I'm curious how I'm gonna think of the remaster. I remember some frustrating battles but also some ambition attempts for a video game even if some of them were way over thought. The gameplay is what I'm most interested in reevaluating.
 
H

HotHamBoy

Member
Kevin Shields said:
It has been since release day that I played infinite so I'm curious how I'm gonna think of the remaster. I remember some frustrating battles but also some ambition attempts for a video game even if some of them were way over thought. The gameplay is what I'm most interested in reevaluating.
Click to expand...

Gameplay is worse on subsequent playthroughs.

The level design for conflicts is awful.

Additionally, they stripped all of the variety from gameplay styles. Most Vigors have the same basic function, there's never a reason to invest in the guns because you can't be sure you'll have access to them.

Big open arenas, run around fighting waves of goons, jump on skyhooks to pick them off.
 
V

vanillacupcakes

Member
Years ago, Bioshock 2 was the first campaign I played when I came back from traveling overseas for a few months. My bro kept saying it was just as good if not better than the first, but i read/heard the same things you did OP. In fact, my main motivation for playing it was to power through it and get ready for 3.

Idk, maybe bc I had taken a decent break from gaming, but I was hooked/sucked right in the gameplay/universe. It's arguably the best of the 3,though to be fair I love 1 and 3 too.

Never played Minerva's den either, and that sounds to hailed by most all. Gonna pick it up when the HD remasters get cheaper.
 
K

Kill3r7

Member
TheSpaceBetween said:
It's the best game in the series. Perhaps not from a story standpoint but overall it's great and doesn't have any of the weaknesses that B and BI have. I desperately want another another game in Columbia, without Levine in there shitting things up and taking 6 years to make.
Click to expand...

I mean of course it is Levine who is shitting things up. It is not as though he created the world, story and defined the gameplay of Bioshock. He clearly is a talentless hack.
 
O

osnameless

Member
Always felt that game is underappreciated

The big sisters were a huge improvement, in my opinion, and I liked how there was more variety to your decisions regarding the gatherers
 
C

Common Knowledge

Member
It's interesting how the original Bioshock is able to just ride almost solely on it's atmosphere and story to video game classic status. Even in this thread, the main points people are bringing up against 2 is that it doesn't have any good twists or the atmosphere is recycled.


I mean, I'm not mad at that or anything. If anything, it's a testament to how well done to journey to and through Rapture was done in the original, but it does always make me re-affirm my stance that the actual act of playing through the first game is serviceable at best, clunky and repetitive at worst. I finally played through the whole thing with the Collection, after years of repeatedly starting it and telling myself to force my way through the whole thing.

I knew all the twists and story outcomes for a long while, so the magic of wanting to see what happens wasn't there for me, so the only thing really intriguing for me was the atmosphere, but, well, you've seen the vast majority of that aspect within the first hour. I'm glad I can finally say I finished it now, but hell if I'm ever going to replay it.


On the flipside, just 30 minutes into Bioshock 2 felt much more smooth and less frustrating, so I'm eager to see it through to the end.


(I think Infinite is also more fun to play than the original, mind you.)
 
C

Chmpocalypse

Blizzard
Bioshock is the more groundbreaking one, but 2 is the better game, especially with Minerva's Den. Really great work.

Infinite was, erm, infinitely disappointing.
 
N

Nostremitus

Member
Izuna said:
Except it's literally the only purpose the story serves, is to lead up to the events that allow BioShock 1 to happen...

So yes, it is definitely implied that it does. Especially since you see
a flashforward of the good ending for BioShock 1
Click to expand...
I think you missed the point. The story of Bioshock took place simultaneously across Infinite parallel worlds. The one in the DLC wasn't the same one from the first games. It was another parallel universe similar to the one from the first games. The same way you jump between similar worlds throughout Bioshock Infinite.
 
H

HotHamBoy

Member
Script of the Bridge said:
Lamb sucks as a antagonist, there's no amazing twist like the first. It's just nowhere near as memorable.
Click to expand...

But again, who the fuck cares about the story? Video games are games first and foremost. The gameplay in Bioshock 2 is fantastic.

I mean, Bioshock 1 is a trash story by any metric that isn't video games. It also has a pretty lame ending.

Like, video games are a terrible medium for story telling. The few exceptions are trying to do something radically different and generally tend to be abstract. Books, movies, tv shows, comics are all better at telling stories than video game are. If i enjoy a story in a game then that's a great bonus but that is not what makes a game great for me.
 
B

Brakke

Banned
Bioshock one was exciting and surprising. Bioshock 2 was a solid execution on the gameplay ideas that Bioshock 1 gestured at but never really capitalized on. Infinite is garbage that belongs in the trash.
 
S

StormBrute

Member
I like 2 as well, and I would say Minerva's Den is the best piece of content of all the Shock games. It has the most solid gameplay of them all and a well-written, concise story.

To me, Minerva's Den was the only game that really lived up to the series's reputation. I heavily recommend it.
 
B

Booker.DeWitt

Member
HotHamBoy said:
But again, who the fuck cares about the story? Video games are games first and foremost. The gameplay in Bioshock 2 is fantastic.

I mean, Bioshock 1 is a trash story by any metric that isn't video games.
Click to expand...


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