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[Vena]

That seems weird given how they assembled a team specifically for this game - therefore, SQEX had at least a mid-term business plan in mind.

I don't know. Things like this can always come together if you have the vision in play or plan. It just seems like this plan was put together on the basis of: "Old fashioned RPG like we do best, people will respond well to this." which in and of itself isn't a bad idea or plan. But the reality didn't follow the logic (either there wasn't the expected audience transition or presence or, simply, interest) and with this being a pet project and likely cheap it is just going to go through. Perhaps the hope had been that the slew of titles coming to the systems was going to inspire more transitions and more interest in this type of product, and Setsuna was a nice "cherry on top" but either that didn't happen or no one really wants the cherry.

I know we've been over the BD comparisons and they're different products of different realities and scopes, but it would feel to me like a similar mindset to where BD found its success vs. where they had hoped Setsuna would. Of course, I think the former may have found that success because SE wasn't the one actually handling its promotion...

... lol.

Of course this also brings to question the fate of World of FF which, if anything, I think has an even sillier audience mismatch what with being a Pokemon/DQM game that coming out on platforms with none of said audience or any attempt to ever cultivate said audience. Its CoD on WiiU.

Damn... lack of faith is the exact thing I didn't want to accept at this point but I guess it's possible all things considered.

Still, I hope the studio can work on another game after this. Perhaps it won't be a new IP though...

The studio, I don't think, is in jeopardy here with such a small game/money on the line.

 

[Edge_Maverick]

Maybe it's so cheap that they need to sell like 25k copies to make a profit, just like Compile Heart's titles :V

Spoiler

don't kill me Nep Nep fans, I bought the first game!

The studio, I don't think, is in jeopardy here with such a small game/money on the line.

While I agree with you (since Setsuna is a low risk project financially speaking), SE is so crazy sometimes that it could go either way. But first, let's wait for the localization. The game was revealed at E3 so I guess (read: want to believe) they will promote it at least in the West.

 

[Man God]

SE put a TON of effort into BD:FF though and still weren't satisfied with the results. It wasn't until Nintendo picked it up and ran with it in the west that it became something.

BD:FF, had what, four demos and then a very substantial upgrade when they started work on the western/best version. That's the sort of treatment they usually reserved for their higher end games back two generations ago.

Project Setsuna was more of a hey, let's throw this cub off of the mountain and recognize it if it climbs back up sort of approach. It's also a fairly good barometer to judge the actual size of the hardcore rpg market.

 

[Arzehn]

Wasn't the whole point of creating the new studio (Tokyo RPG Factory) to see if it could sustain itself? SE what never going to market the game, faith or not. The hardcore old-school gamer is the target, not the masses - they don't need marketing/commercials.

It will likely still make a profit.

 

[Nirolak]

That seems weird given how they assembled a team specifically for this game - therefore, SQEX had at least a mid-term business plan in mind.

Damn... lack of faith is the exact thing I didn't want to accept at this point but I guess it's possible all things considered.

Still, I hope the studio can work on another game after this. Perhaps it won't be a new IP though...

I don't think they intend to can the studio. However, part of the idea of spending very little on their New IPs is that they can easily drop the series if they don't perform well without feeling like they wasted a ton of money on failed potential.

Wasn't the whole point of creating the new studio (Tokyo RPG Factory) to see if it could sustain itself? SE what never going to market the game, faith or not. The hardcore old-school gamer is the target, not the masses - they don't need marketing/commercials.

It will likely still make a profit.

The core idea was to separate them off from the expectations of what a modern Square Enix game is.

Basically, you know how in the West each studio is its own named entity with different types of expectations about their games (for example, people expect different types of games out of DICE and BioWare despite them both being EA)? They wanted to create that kind of scenario for Tokyo RPG Factory, where they weren't worried about fitting in with what the company's corporate identity is.

Now, personally I think a more normal approach would have been to just divide up Square Enix Japan into named substudios with staff that rotate between them if need be, but that's not really the local culture for the most part. When divisions do exist, they're usually just numbered departments in Japan. That or the identity revolves around the game directors instead of the teams.

 

[Moor-Angol]

Knack not on top anymore, news of the century. Its dark reign is over.

I think it's since the end of last year that we know MGS has sold more than Knack

Konami

1. [PS4] Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain # <ADV> (Konami) {2015.09.02} (¥9.072) - 417.970
2. [PS3] Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain # <ADV> (Konami) {2015.09.02} (¥9.072) - 231.826
3. [PS3] Pro Baseball Spirits 2015 <SPT> (Konami) {2015.03.26} (¥8.208) - 124.380

as Nov.29, 2015

 

[Edge_Maverick]

I don't think they intend to can the studio. However, part of the idea of spending very little on their New IPs is that they can easily drop the series if they don't perform well without feeling like they wasted a ton of money on failed potential.

I just found hard to believe Matsuda will be able to prove that his "theory of three titles" or whatever it was called is correct if Setsuna is sent to die

Maybe I misunderstood their idea behind the studio and expected a bit more from it since they ended a E3 keynote with that lol

 

[Nirolak]

I just found hard to believe Matsuda will be able to prove that his "theory of three titles" or whatever it was called is correct if Setsuna is sent to die

Maybe I misunderstood their idea behind the studio and expected a bit more from it since they ended a E3 keynote with that lol

So when Matsuda took over, he canned the new AAA IPs at Crystal Dynamics, IO Interactive, and (several at) Square Enix Japan. Eidos Montreal's survived for a few months before being killed as well.

He then greenlit a bunch of low to moderate budget series revivals and moved new IP to a mobile and ultra-cheap-dedicated-game only status.

While Setsuna appears to be a game that's a strong personal interest of his, he seems to want to spend very little money on it as part of the general strategy he set up.

 

[duckroll]

The core idea was to separate them off from the expectations of what a modern Square Enix game is.

Basically, you know how in the West each studio is its own named entity with different types of expectations about their games (for example, people expect different types of games out of DICE and BioWare despite them both being EA)? They wanted to create that kind of scenario for Tokyo RPG Factory, where they weren't worried about fitting in with what the company's corporate identity is.

Now, personally I think a more normal approach would have been to just divide up Square Enix Japan into named substudios with staff that rotate between them if need be, but that's not really the local culture for the most part. When divisions do exist, they're usually just numbered departments in Japan. That or the identity revolves around the game directors instead of the teams.

I'm not really sure I agree at this point, looking at the overall corporate setup at S-E. S-E has never had any issues with creating internal divisions and marketing them. They've done this repeatedly over the years, sometimes to more success than others. With Tokyo RPG Factory though, it's not a "team" so much as a brand new company set up as a subsidiary of the holding company with emphasized on external hires to populate the studio. What does that say to you in business terms? To me that says that this is a outlier management project which they want to manage and contain very carefully without it reflecting as the company investing significant existing resources on, such that if it succeeds it can expand on grow as its own branch, and if it fails it can be neatly shut down without having worries about terminating long term staff or having to reallocate them to other projects.

 

[Nirolak]

I'm not really sure I agree at this point, looking at the overall corporate setup at S-E. S-E has never had any issues with creating internal divisions and marketing them. They've done this repeatedly over the years, sometimes to more success than others. With Tokyo RPG Factory though, it's not a "team" so much as a brand new company set up as a subsidiary of the holding company with emphasized on external hires to populate the studio. What does that say to you in business terms? To me that says that this is a outlier management project which they want to manage and contain very carefully without it reflecting as the company investing significant existing resources on, such that if it succeeds it can expand on grow as its own branch, and if it fails it can be neatly shut down without having worries about terminating long term staff or having to reallocate them to other projects.

It is possible Matsuda prefers to set up silo'ed business divisions for easy shutdown going forward. He was the CFO and would know the ins and outs of making new business divisions that would be easy to drop if they did not succeed.

They had Shinra as a silo'ed off division investing in cloud gaming that they shut down recently toward that end. Making more games with external studios that direct their own titles (something they explicitly ramped up doing) also makes it easier to close off series that don't perform well without larger corporate impact to boot.

If Dissidia, Star Ocean, Dragon Quest Heroes 2, and/or Nier 2 tank, they can drop the product lines without having to find new projects for the teams or necessarily even the supervisors outside of the producers.

 

[duckroll]

Yes, I was actually thinking precisely of Shinra. It's the same sort of setup, and considering the -name- of that subsidiary and who was running it, I don't think there was any real concern of wanting a different "corporate identity" or anything. Seems to me like a cleaner setup for investing in untested new concepts moving forward, rather than sinking the entire company into another FFXIV or FFXV over the years. Like, if FFXI were made today instead, I would not be surprised if they set up a different company just for MMO development purposes.

 

[Nirolak]

I'm curious to see if they announce a new division for their Japanese eSports interests.

They did a giant write-down on all their current games, but said they still feel very strongly about investing in Japanese eSports, so a new subsidiary would make sense in the event it fails again.

 

[Edge_Maverick]

So when Matsuda took over, he canned the new AAA IPs at Crystal Dynamics, IO Interactive, and (several at) Square Enix Japan. Eidos Montreal's survived for a few months before being killed as well.

He then greenlit a bunch of low to moderate budget series revivals and moved new IP to a mobile and ultra-cheap-dedicated-game only status.

While Setsuna appears to be a game that's a strong personal interest of his, he seems to want to spend very little money on it as part of the general strategy he set up.

2013 was hell, a year Square should (but won't) forget.

He greenlit a Nier sequel and it doesn't look so cheap, everything is forgiven lol

Well, it'll be interesting to see the future of TRF. It was clear they wanted Setsuna to become a new series, but if that won't work, they can try again with a new one then until something clicks.

 

[duckroll]

I'm curious to see if they announce a new division for their Japanese eSports interests.

They did a giant write-down on all their current games, but said they still feel very strongly about investing in Japanese eSports, so a new subsidiary would make sense in the event it fails again.

I think it largely depends on how serious they are about development vs publishing. If they are only interested in being a Japanese eSports publisher, they could just continue to do what they do and find partners like ByKing and Dimps to develop the games while their producers and marketing division takes care of everything else. If they want in as a developer... well.... good luck?

 

[Vena]

SE put a TON of effort into BD:FF though and still weren't satisfied with the results. It wasn't until Nintendo picked it up and ran with it in the west that it became something.

Well, yes, this was my point with BD that it didn't turn into something "big" until someone else took over the reigns of actually marketing the game.

 

[Pennywise83]

SE put a TON of effort into BD:FF though and still weren't satisfied with the results. It wasn't until Nintendo picked it up and ran with it in the west that it became something.

BD:FF, had what, four demos and then a very substantial upgrade when they started work on the western/best version. That's the sort of treatment they usually reserved for their higher end games back two generations ago.

Project Setsuna was more of a hey, let's throw this cub off of the mountain and recognize it if it climbs back up sort of approach. It's also a fairly good barometer to judge the actual size of the hardcore rpg market.

Doubtful. The vast majority of marketing and promotion (incl. demos) were in the hands of the development team, signalling a disinterest in SQEX marketing department.

 

[Nirolak]

I would say that Bravely Default and Life is Strange represent the higher end of the amount Square Enix is willing to spend on a new IP currently.

Mind, that's not a particularly large seeming figure.

 

[casiopao]

SE put a TON of effort into BD:FF though and still weren't satisfied with the results. It wasn't until Nintendo picked it up and ran with it in the west that it became something.

BD:FF, had what, four demos and then a very substantial upgrade when they started work on the western/best version. That's the sort of treatment they usually reserved for their higher end games back two generations ago.

Project Setsuna was more of a hey, let's throw this cub off of the mountain and recognize it if it climbs back up sort of approach. It's also a fairly good barometer to judge the actual size of the hardcore rpg market.

The fact that BD needs Nintendo's help to even get localized outside of Japan, u can said for sure that SE does not put "TON" effort into BD here. More than Setsuna by some small margin i will agree though for sure but it is surely not "TON" here.

 

[Sterok]

I don't suppose they're making many big new IPs in mobile?

Speaking of eSports, how is that in Japan? I figure stuff like Splatoon and Smash have a decent size audience, but what else? Is the mobile eSports scene big?

 

[Nirolak]

I don't suppose they're making many big new IPs in mobile?

They make a lot of new IPs for mobile, but their budgeting would be comparable to something like a mid-tier handheld game or less.

Speaking of eSports, how is that in Japan? I figure stuff like Splatoon and Smash have a decent size audience, but what else? Is the mobile eSports scene big?

I'm not under the impression there's much of an eSports industry in Japan. I think that's why they're so interested though. It's incredibly hard to get into this in the West or various parts of Asia due to the established competition and how much money the new entrants have, but they can get in on the ground floor in Japan.

 

[casiopao]

I don't suppose they're making many big new IPs in mobile?

Speaking of eSports, how is that in Japan? I figure stuff like Splatoon and Smash have a decent size audience, but what else? Is the mobile eSports scene big?

There are crazy amount of big New IP's in mobile for sure. I believe each year, it is almost certain that one company can give us more than 3 new IP with huge budget there.^_^

 

[Nirolak]

Here are app pages for the new IPs Square Enix Japan has released in the last year on mobile in case people want to see screenshots or what have you. I'm excluding sequels to successful mobile IPs like Million Arthur.

Mugen Knights: https://www.appannie.com/apps/ios/app/wu-xian-naitsu/
Heaven Strike Rivals: https://www.appannie.com/apps/ios/app/948617073/ (Mind this was developed overseas.)
Holy Dungeon: https://www.appannie.com/apps/ios/app/horidanjon-horidan!/
Sengoku Yaraideka (I'm not sure what the second word is in English): https://www.appannie.com/apps/ios/app/961914682/
Rampage Land Rankers: https://www.appannie.com/apps/ios/app/975126432/
Pop-Up Story: https://www.appannie.com/apps/ios/app/potsupuatsupusutori-mo-fa-noben-tosheng-shu-noxue-yuan/
Empire In The Storm: https://www.appannie.com/apps/ios/app/1028953832/
Grimms Notes: https://www.appannie.com/apps/ios/app/1035230279/
Alice Order: https://www.appannie.com/apps/ios/app/alice-order/
Fortune Tellers Academy: https://www.appannie.com/apps/ios/app/yu-yan-zhe-yu-cheng-xue-yuan-fortune-tellers-academy/

 

[Sterok]

Here are app pages for the new IPs Square Enix Japan has released in the last year on mobile in case people want to see screenshots or what have you. I'm excluding sequels to successful mobile IPs like Million Arthur.

Mugen Knights: https://www.appannie.com/apps/ios/app/wu-xian-naitsu/
Heaven Strike Rivals: https://www.appannie.com/apps/ios/app/948617073/ (Mind this was developed overseas.)
Holy Dungeon: https://www.appannie.com/apps/ios/app/horidanjon-horidan!/
Sengoku Yaraideka (I'm not sure what the second word is in English): https://www.appannie.com/apps/ios/app/961914682/
Rampage Land Rankers: https://www.appannie.com/apps/ios/app/975126432/
Pop-Up Story: https://www.appannie.com/apps/ios/app/potsupuatsupusutori-mo-fa-noben-tosheng-shu-noxue-yuan/
Empire In The Storm: https://www.appannie.com/apps/ios/app/1028953832/
Grimms Notes: https://www.appannie.com/apps/ios/app/1035230279/
Alice Order: https://www.appannie.com/apps/ios/app/alice-order/
Fortune Tellers Academy: https://www.appannie.com/apps/ios/app/yu-yan-zhe-yu-cheng-xue-yuan-fortune-tellers-academy/

It's hard to get a good read on what has a nice budget or not here. Another reason the industry needs to be more open on how much this stuff costs. Based just on screenshots I'd say Rampage Land Rankers, Pop-Up Story, and Empire In The Storm wouldn't seem out of place on 3DS or Vita.

There's also more chibi games than I would expect at first. I thought they were only common on 3DS for some reason.

 

[Nirolak]

It's hard to get a good read on what has a nice budget or not here. Another reason the industry needs to be more open on how much this stuff costs. Based just on screenshots I'd say Rampage Land Rankers, Pop-Up Story, and Empire In The Storm wouldn't seem out of place on 3DS or Vita.

There's also more chibi games than I would expect at first. I thought they were only common on 3DS for some reason.

Chibi tends to fit well in small download sizes if you have a ton of characters, it works well with more casual audiences, and it's not very expensive to make chibi characters that look reasonable.

Similarly there's a lot of 2D games on mobile since you get small download sizes on top of your budget benefits while being able to do a wider variety of art styles.

For Square Enix's most expensive looking mobile new IP, I would guess School Girl Strikers, but I think that started in the Wada era given it released in early 2014: https://www.appannie.com/apps/ios/app/sukurugarusutoraikazu/

 

[Sterok]

Chibi tends to fit well in small download sizes if you have a ton of characters, it works well with more casual audiences, and it's not very expensive to make chibi characters that look reasonable.

Similarly there's a lot of 2D games on mobile since you get small download sizes on top of your budget benefits while being able to do a wider variety of art styles.

That makes sense, thanks.

Who are the developers for these games? More internal or external teams? That is a fair number of games, and at this point I imagine each one demands at least a medium size studio (equivalent to say, Bravely or Setsuna).

 

[Nirolak]

That makes sense, thanks.

Who are the developers for these games? More internal or external teams? That is a fair number of games, and at this point I imagine each one demands at least a medium size studio (equivalent to say, Bravely or Setsuna).

It can be surprisingly difficult to tell since sometimes it's only listed on the developer's website and not really publicized. Some of these are internal though.

Of that list, Rampage Land Rankers is HexaDrive, School Girl Strikers is internal, and Heaven Strike Rivals is Mediatonic.

 

[Edge_Maverick]

I would say that Bravely Default and Life is Strange represent the higher end of the amount Square Enix is willing to spend on a new IP currently.

Mind, that's not a particularly large seeming figure.

This is just wishful thinking since there's no proof (yet) but it's possible the next BD2 project (Tabata's team) is a new AAA IP.

And the way he talks about "what's next" makes me think they are already working on something.

Time will tell.

 

[Oregano]

This is just wishful thinking since there's no proof (yet) but it's possible the next BD2 project (Tabata's team) is a new AAA IP.

And the way he talks about "what's next" makes me think they are already working on something.

Time will tell.

I thought Tabata would be following up Type Zero considering the CG vid at the end of Type Zero HD.

 

[Edge_Maverick]

I thought Tabata would be following up Type Zero considering the CG vid at the end of Type Zero HD.

Doesn't seem to be case imo.

This is what he said:

Q: After Final Fantasy XV, what kind of game would you like to make?

A: There will definitely be something next. And I&#8217;d like to challenge something large-scaled, too. It won&#8217;t be a sequel to Final Fantasy XV, and not a series that follows the flow as seen in the Final Fantasy Type-0 series.

http://www.siliconera.com/2015/10/0...m_campaign=Feed:+siliconera/MkOc+(Siliconera)

 

[Oregano]

Doesn't seem to be case imo.

This is what he said:



http://www.siliconera.com/2015/10/0...m_campaign=Feed:+siliconera/MkOc+(Siliconera)

oh that's kind of surprising but interesting.

 

[QuiteWhittle]

Doesn't seem to be case imo.

This is what he said:



http://www.siliconera.com/2015/10/0...m_campaign=Feed:+siliconera/MkOc+(Siliconera)

There's also this:

I am Hajime Tabata, Division Executive of the Business Division 2.

Our division is involved in the state-of-the-art technical development aiming to attain the highest evaluation and income through business focusing on the latest FF title ‘FINAL FANTASY XV’.
We proactively craft products by gathering team members with the most prominent engineering, art and planning skills in the industry.

The motto of Business Division 2 is ‘We don’t create products that we don’t have faith in. We only create the ones that excite us.’ Our goal is to become an open and all-mighty production studio that can achieve the best performance through the unity of all company groups to gain a competitive edge.

Nowadays, facilities that develop world-class AAA games are on a decline within Japan, but we have it right here.
We offer you the chance as a creator to be involved with the latest FF title deployed on cutting-edge hardware and platforms, or using that know-how to create a new IP that will serve as an upcoming mainstay of SQUARE ENIX. We are looking forward to your application.

Business Division 2
Division Executive
Hajime Tabata

 

[horuhe]

Builders campaign alongside PSVita had already finished

Attack on Titan is getting big in stores. I supposse is more because of the size's characters rather than the impact it could get on sales.

 

[Ōkami]

Seems like Microsoft is giving the Halo Master Chief Collection another go, a newish one will be coming out in February 18th

40k yen with taxes, pretty sure they released this bundle last year as well, though with a white console.

That's how it is, you think Microsoft is leaving Japan and then BAM! they announce 3 bundles.

 

[Moor-Angol]

40k yen with taxes, pretty sure they released this bundle last year as well, though with a white console.

yeah, but price was higher I presume, 40k yen is the standard price (while the 1Tb version is priced 45k)

 

[crinale]

https://www.jp.playstation.com/blog/detail/2410/20160217-psvita.html

Vita starter pack is coming.

 

[horuhe]

Vita starter pack is coming.

I can see it, as the greatest opportunity that Vita has this year to keep selling well as it has been selling this time around.

 

[hiska-kun]

I can see it, as the greatest opportunity that Vita has this year to keep selling well as it has been selling this time around.

The pack is limited, though.

 

[horuhe]

The pack is limited, though.

Didn't catch this detail, lol. It would help anyways, though.

 

[mao2]

Kinda surprised to see Project Setsuna PS4 version ranking higher than Vita version on Rakuten and Amazon.

 

[horuhe]

Kinda surprised to see Project Setsuna PS4 version ranking higher than Vita version on Rakuten and Amazon.

Don't know why but is has been happening at least since two weeks ago with Attack on Titan, Project Setsuna and Gundam Breaker. Even Builders PS4 on its days of pre-orders on Rakuten sold better than the Vita counterpart. It's quite strange how PS4 games behave lately.

 

[Moor-Angol]

I can see it, as the greatest opportunity that Vita has this year to keep selling well as it has been selling this time around.

it's just 2,500yen (more or less) cheaper than a normal Vita + 16Gb card purchase

but Sony knows what japanese will do with those 2,500yen

Spoiler

Minecraft official price is........

 

[Ryng_tolu]

Seems like Microsoft is giving the Halo Master Chief Collection another go, a newish one will be coming out in February 18th



40k yen with taxes, pretty sure they released this bundle last year as well, though with a white console.

That's how it is, you think Microsoft is leaving Japan and then BAM! they announce 3 bundles.

Ok seriusly. I Know XB1 is Death in japan so doesn't matter what MS done, but really, why MCC?

Why Master Chief Collection and not Halo 5?

 

[crinale]

I see 101 & 3933.

 

[Pennywise83]

I see 101 & 3933.

One and Wii U?

 

[crinale]

One and Wii U?

The blog just hinted 2 numbers but that sounds reasonable.

 

[Kresnik258]

https://www.jp.playstation.com/blog/detail/2410/20160217-psvita.html

Vita starter pack is coming.

Didn't they release one of these last year as well (with demos of games in, iirc?)

 

[hiska-kun]

101 wan-chan is funny

 

[ULTROS!]

The Wonderful

Spoiler

Xbox

One01

 

[Ryng_tolu]

Maybe Wii U is 101 and XB1 is 3933.

 

[L~A]

Media Create:

PS4 27,576
New3DS LL 19,691
Vita 17,104
New3DS 4,695
Wii U 3,933
3DS 2,717
PS3 1,633
3DS LL 452
Xbox One 101

Shin Megami Tensei IV Final: 96k [01./00. [3DS] Shin Megami Tensei IV # <RPG> (Atlus) {2013.05.23} (¥6.980) - 188.562 / NEW <80,14%>]
Valkyria Chronicles Remaster: 24k

> http://www.4gamer.net/games/117/G011794/20160217100/