Fbh
Member
True.
But keeping 80 full time employees for 10+ years with nothing to show still seems like a waste of money
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True.
But keeping 80 full time employees for 10+ years with nothing to show still seems like a waste of money
MAtgS
Member
The dream is dead.
I think the big issue is that there's no real incentive to create with Dreams over a "real" game engine. If you got the skill, time, & dedication, you can totally a full fledged game in Dreams. You could get a team together, delegate different tasks like character animation or what not to them, & make an even bigger & more impressive game.
But if you could do that, then you can just as use Unity or Unreal, or Game Maker or a number of other engines & create an actual product that you make money off of. Dreams demands the work without the pay. & when Dreams' servers go offline, all your work ceases to exist.
I think the big issue is that there's no real incentive to create with Dreams over a "real" game engine. If you got the skill, time, & dedication, you can totally a full fledged game in Dreams. You could get a team together, delegate different tasks like character animation or what not to them, & make an even bigger & more impressive game.
But if you could do that, then you can just as use Unity or Unreal, or Game Maker or a number of other engines & create an actual product that you make money off of. Dreams demands the work without the pay. & when Dreams' servers go offline, all your work ceases to exist.
01011001
Banned
Nah, OP of this thread titled "Dreams is the most important new game in a decade", and I'm not gonna dig for him saying it, but there's a lot of gold to mine in there from other people too. Choice quotes includes:
"Dreams is going to revolutionize the gaming industry. Period."
"dreams will be one of the most important games this gen....." (no second guesses who this one was)
"It's absurd for anyone to have any doubts about this game, in terms of importance to sony's position as a platform holder, or the industry at-large."
"I believe Dreams is going to score insanely high in reviews, with an average score in the absurdly high 90s. I'm gonna say 98/100"
Some of the copium was off the charts. The OT was even worse.
01011001 your prediction in that thread was "the game will ultimately be a financial failure, the servers will be offline within 2 to 3 years and noone will give a shit", great job
I was wrong tho, servers are staying online, which is commendable, even tho they're adding an upload limit. the question is how long they'll remain online tho
Jimmyisback
Banned
Feel bad for those that spent hours upon hours days weeks to learn the tools. And now its dead.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
A few people got hired by studios, so it was worth it for the experience alone.
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
and they've contributed infinitely more to society than you have making jaded, inflammatory messages on neogaf.
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reinking
Gold Member
Games like this are not going to shoot up the charts but I am glad Sony is willing to allow a studio to try. I want more innovation and risks in gaming, not less. I wasn’t a fan of Dreams. Hardly played it. I am still glad it was green lit and I hope we see more attempts at trying new things in the gaming space..
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Dreams was just a cr**py Roblox.
We were all thinking it. Someone needed to say it.
We were all thinking it. Someone needed to say it.
DKPOWPOW
Member
You should be ashamed, Sony.
The game is crying out for a PC/PS5 port, an app that allows you play games across multiple devices, and a way for people (and you) to make extra $$.
I think this could have been a real success if there had been a solid roadmap for this game instead of just a... Here ya go. Drop, walk away, update kinda thing.
It's clear a ton of work and love went into this thing and trying to make it work with a controller. It would've been a better business decision to just ignore the controller except when playing games made and just bundle this Dreams with a "special" keyboard and mouse for an extra $10 or $20 instead of wasting all those man-hours.
The game is crying out for a PC/PS5 port, an app that allows you play games across multiple devices, and a way for people (and you) to make extra $$.
I think this could have been a real success if there had been a solid roadmap for this game instead of just a... Here ya go. Drop, walk away, update kinda thing.
It's clear a ton of work and love went into this thing and trying to make it work with a controller. It would've been a better business decision to just ignore the controller except when playing games made and just bundle this Dreams with a "special" keyboard and mouse for an extra $10 or $20 instead of wasting all those man-hours.
Luigi Mario
Member
It seems like he has one of those temper tantrums every other week.and they've contributed infinitely more to society than you have making jaded, inflammatory messages on neogaf.
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64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
You still gain game development experience and game design experience from making any game. even a game on Scratch. You still prepare yourself for the greater challenges by making a game on Dreams than you do not making a game at all. You still learn something. Saying that everything they learned is useless with no value and not transferrable to other engines at all is a inconsiderate, dick statement and hence why i got on you for it
J
jaysius
. get trolled and enjoy the deleted messages lmao
Your mom isn't watching bro, you can say crap on the videogame forum, no one will ban you
diffusionx
Gold Member
they haven't made an actual game in a decade. Dreams is completely and totally irrelevant, for the reasons discussed. We don't know how much talent they have. We know they can make a sort of engine/creation platform but there is no evidence Sony needs them to do that, they're not using it to make games (maybe someone somewhere is prototyping but you get the point). Sumo Digital made the last game with MM properties. MM isn't doing anything Sony can't get someone else to do.
Elder Legend
Banned
Nah, OP of this thread titled "Dreams is the most important new game in a decade", and I'm not gonna dig for him saying it, but there's a lot of gold to mine in there from other people too. Choice quotes includes:
"Dreams is going to revolutionize the gaming industry. Period."
"dreams will be one of the most important games this gen....." (no second guesses who this one was)
"It's absurd for anyone to have any doubts about this game, in terms of importance to sony's position as a platform holder, or the industry at-large."
"I believe Dreams is going to score insanely high in reviews, with an average score in the absurdly high 90s. I'm gonna say 98/100"
Some of the copium was off the charts. The OT was even worse.
The level of delusional is quite hilarious. I wonder what they would say now. I am sure it would be along the lines of blaming someone or something for its failure.
It was a cool concept, but if people really want to know what will revolutionize game development/making is AI.
ChatGPT despite in its early changes, is already doing some insane stuff. Now imagine if you can use implement such AI or create an AI that's geared towards game development and make it a part of Unreal Engine 5 or Unreal Engine 6 out of the box.
Here are channel from a Blizzard developer who was responsible for working on Diablo 3/Diablo Immortal. He used ChatGPT from start to finish to create his own version of Flappy Bird. While a much simpler game, you can still see how insanely powerful this can get when used in conjunction with game engines.
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
honestly i feel like the big thing AI could be used for is textures. texture creation being made easier would significantly speed up the dev process for many games
Ar¢tos
Member
Dreams itself is a new game engine with new rendering systems, I'm sure other Sony studios have learned from the process of creating Dreams, since Sony studios share tech and knowledge all the time, even MM might use what they learned creating Dreams in their next project.
Saying it is completely irrelevant is just dumb, there is much to gain from the experience of making it.
wvnative
Member
My buddy and I are HUGE fans of littlebigplanet, and miss those games so much. We actually just went back to it this past week, and it's been great fun, but also frustrating, as LBP3 was left in a broken state, with constant bugs mostly related to partying up.
Dreams was my buddy's most anticipated "game" at the time, but we just...never clicked with it like LBP. Dreams just feels like it had something holding it back, creation tools were a little more in-depth and harder to master, and it just feels like we never really found high quality content to play compared to LBP. Even high quality content in Dreams feels/looks very off. I think they really needed something like a core platformer like LBP to anchor it to for a better baseline. Discovery is also a huge problem, I log in every few months just to see if things are better and I continue seeing a lot of the same levels. It's more of a pure game engine than LBP was, but imo, not a great one.
Dreams just felt inherently flawed to me, too complex for regular folks to get to grips with without tons of dedication, yet still too simple to make anything remarkable. We thought they'd improve it over time like the first two LBP games, but still after all this time, no PS5 upgrade, no multiplayer or even co-op create. Seems like they just let it stall out, and Sony seemingly didn't push it very hard.
My buddy and I really just want LBP4, but I'm pretty sure MM ain't doing that. (Maybe Sumo will at some point, seems ripe for a modern live service game)
We will however, watch whatever they do next closely, and hope it can recapture that LBP magic, whatever it may be. (Never played tearaway)
Dreams was my buddy's most anticipated "game" at the time, but we just...never clicked with it like LBP. Dreams just feels like it had something holding it back, creation tools were a little more in-depth and harder to master, and it just feels like we never really found high quality content to play compared to LBP. Even high quality content in Dreams feels/looks very off. I think they really needed something like a core platformer like LBP to anchor it to for a better baseline. Discovery is also a huge problem, I log in every few months just to see if things are better and I continue seeing a lot of the same levels. It's more of a pure game engine than LBP was, but imo, not a great one.
Dreams just felt inherently flawed to me, too complex for regular folks to get to grips with without tons of dedication, yet still too simple to make anything remarkable. We thought they'd improve it over time like the first two LBP games, but still after all this time, no PS5 upgrade, no multiplayer or even co-op create. Seems like they just let it stall out, and Sony seemingly didn't push it very hard.
My buddy and I really just want LBP4, but I'm pretty sure MM ain't doing that. (Maybe Sumo will at some point, seems ripe for a modern live service game)
We will however, watch whatever they do next closely, and hope it can recapture that LBP magic, whatever it may be. (Never played tearaway)
TVexperto
Member
Your post is not true and a lie.
In an interview with PlayStation Asia, Sony President Shuhei Yoshida stated that Dreams is one of his ‘favourite projects ever’. He also revealed that the publisher has a massive 10-year plan in mind to oversee the evolution of of the game.
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Honey Bunny
Member
All been downhill for MM since that LBP trailer. Lets be honest.
Not only that.
Mario Maker and other products make people want to play the games you created, and this is because you can create actual experiences, actual games. Games limited by the tools you have, but games you can share to other to play
Dreams was very confusing about sharing your product, and most of the products were just proof of concept or tech demo, not actual games or levels.
Fbh
Member
Disagree. No one except for a small minority seem to care about their games, have yet to meet anyone who was motivated to get a Ps4 (or Ps5) for games like Teraway and Dreams.
Sony could take the millions it's costing them every year to keep the studio around and put them towards more smaller scale exclusives like Stray, Sifu and Kena which also keep the library unique and, unlike most stuff by MM, seem to get a lot of positive buzz
Games of Today
Member
This game is cool but looks like soup on PS5. It doesn't even have 4K support.
nikolino840
Member
Is their next project imho..maybe more easy to do a new version instead to modify dreams
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
exactly. when you give people a full game engine but structure it like a level maker all you get are a bunch of smaller games structured like single levels rather than fully fledged games. It doesn't really lead to full games which is probably what media molecule thought Dreams would become.
Nintendo did it better 10 years ago with WarioWare D.I.Y because they were small microgames with minimal complexity. They were easy to create and while they still had limited tools you could make virtually anything so long as it could fit in the timeframe of 10 seconds or less. I still wish for a sequel all these years later
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Sony and MM doing all this LBP and Dreams is really just a different way of selling Minecraft or Roblox or whatever other PC community creation games there are out there.
These kinds of games are PC focused, not console focused.
But key difference it’s only on PS systems. That’s a death knell right off the bat.
I don’t think Sony or MM even expected these games to be big sellers. But more of a PR thing to show variety in game library and that it’s unique exclusive games. If they really cared about expanding the games to more creators they’d be ported to PC years ago.
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DaGwaphics
Member
This was kind of an interesting idea. If they had ported it to PC right from the start (where creations made on PC could be played on PS4 as well) this could have been really interesting. Would have needed a marketplace though for creators to sell their work (maybe with all titles required to have a demo level or something to show users what to expect).
Sure, it wasn't going to be a tool that regular game devs were using, but look at all the hobbyists you see on YT. Allowing sales would have created the incentive to polish these things up even more, though I saw some videos of some very creative things people were doing with it as it was. The other thing is that the Dreams engine/tool itself should have only been required by the creators. The purchases of the games should have been freestanding with a piece going to Sony and the rest going to the creator (even if the whole engine got packaged with these things outside of the development front-end, LOL).
Sure, it wasn't going to be a tool that regular game devs were using, but look at all the hobbyists you see on YT. Allowing sales would have created the incentive to polish these things up even more, though I saw some videos of some very creative things people were doing with it as it was. The other thing is that the Dreams engine/tool itself should have only been required by the creators. The purchases of the games should have been freestanding with a piece going to Sony and the rest going to the creator (even if the whole engine got packaged with these things outside of the development front-end, LOL).
fart town usa
Gold Member
Had no idea that Dreams released in February 2020. I thought it was out for far longer than that.
What a waste of time and money, make it available on PC where it'll find an active userbase, or ya know, keep remaking TLOU.
The games in the below video are really impressive.
What a waste of time and money, make it available on PC where it'll find an active userbase, or ya know, keep remaking TLOU.
The games in the below video are really impressive.
With the lack of good vr content a dreams for psvr2 wouldve been cool. I think there was supposed to be vr support for the psvr but dunno if it ever happened.
I'm assuming all those hype threads back in the days with all the cool dreams games/ports were just crappy short demos/trailers. Kinda like the ue5 hype threads.
I'm assuming all those hype threads back in the days with all the cool dreams games/ports were just crappy short demos/trailers. Kinda like the ue5 hype threads.
j0hnnix
Member
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Too lazy to google the exact timeline, but pretty sure it came out as a beta or early release or something in 2018 or 2019.
Community creation games are always best on PC. That’s where the vast majority of creators are and m/kb support is always easier for certain types of games than using a game pad and analog sticks.
The graphics look incredible for a creation game. All you need is a big enough user base of creation gamers. In which a small number will sink time into making content. That’s the PC crowd. Not the console crowd.
Similar to Mario Maker. Cool concept. You never hear anyone talking about those games and out of all Nintendo first party games it probably sells among the worst.
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
Damn, some of these actually look really fun. Hope the developers remake them in something like Unreal so they can be played on PC as an indie game
ZoukGalaxy
Member
Seriously Sony, what the hell ?!
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TheDreadBaron
Member
It’s pretty gross how common the sentiment here is that creation has no inherent value and is a waste unless it can be converted to USD. People always knew their creations weren’t monetizable in Dreams, that’s what made it such a purely creative environment without ulterior motivations. It’s impossible to create a microtransaction hellscape within Dreams, but it’s perfect for sketching out real game ideas quickly.
Truly a sad day, Dreams is my favorite creation software, made by creatives for creatives, and I don’t think there is anything else like it nor is there likely to be again.
Truly a sad day, Dreams is my favorite creation software, made by creatives for creatives, and I don’t think there is anything else like it nor is there likely to be again.
Zekra Dezivad
Member
That's an awful take mate, pretty silly if you ask me.
One could have opinions but I would like to know what is your definition of value, bc experience, interaction within a community, problem solving, deal with feedbacks, make mistakes and try to fix them, try to make something out of ideas that you think that will work on paper, design something and having fun or just make friends while doing it are all things that have a lot of value and that have nothing to do with the game or gaming in general. Definitely more value and opportunity for grow as a person than a lot of your average mainstream game. Who cares if you can't sell your amateurish game created in a videogame, that was never the point to begin with
bender
What time is it?
People bagging on Sony are weird. Media Molecule is a passion studio for them and they've allowed them to create multiple projects, with Dreams being the least viable from a marketing standpoint as it isn't bolstered by a cute mascot. A PC port beyond something to play existing projects also doesn't make a lot of sense for a lot of reasons, especially if we've come to the end of the content update road.
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
especially considering how that profit motive is exactly why so many people on GAF are disillusioned with the gaming industry.
coffinbirth
Member
Dreams and Bloodborne were the two games I was hoping Sony would port to PC above all others. What a goddamned shame.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Was this on the NVidia list of PC leaks ?
Crayon
Member
Awe wish it could have lived longer. Can't go forever, but lbp sequels superceded the old games while keeping compatibility with past levels. You'd imagine they could do such a thing with this but alas, they've decided to move on. Dreams could have done better with this. MM did a great job but sony never really got behind it after the full launch.
Fart Knight
Al Pachinko, Konami President
Good thing we have this classic
Woke up out of the coma 2023
Woke up out of the coma 2023
A "Dreams Player" app (like Tableau Creator) would be fantastic that could connect to the DREAMS servers and pull down content for folks who didn't want the actual full game.
. . .that or put the fucking thing on STEAM and let people go nuts. Absolutely insane that this thing wasn't shopped for a second life there, and almost entirely has to do with SONY being gunshy about people using their shit to make - shock and horror - work out of non-SONY owned IP.
Man they've really gotten comfortable.
Good lord. Of course it did. Impressive work though convincing yourself that they hadn't and then criticizing them for their lack of business sense.
How. . .was this a vanity project? This is a pretty clear evolution of the work MM have wanted to do with LBP.
Some of the pushback on this title. Bizarre. Like here, in a gaming industry beset on all sides by folks unwilling to take chances, you have a company say "Let's make a game that lets people make games, from zero experience all the way up to professionals in the industry, and toss our own little game in there as inspiration to get people creating and sharing with one another" and the BEST some of you can come up with is: "Meh. Total ego project."
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ProgenitorCastle
Banned
Man that sucks. I hate when I forget about a game and find out about it in the worst way possible such as this. It's great though that the game still will be playable after the support ends...I hope there will be a Dreams 2 or a contiuation of this idea in the future
