George Carlin also made an entire show about PC which made a lot of sense.
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Mel Brooks says political correctness is the death of comedy.
- Thread starter justjohn
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George Carlin also made an entire show about PC which made a lot of sense.
That's the video I was thinking of when I saw the title. In reality, political correctness isn't going to kill comedy. Comedians who complain that people get offended at their jokes just can't accept that culture has changed and find some things unacceptable to joke about now.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
Note that he says he PERSONALLY would not touch the Holocaust, not that nobody can or should.
He's exactly right, btw.
He's exactly right, btw.
It's a movie that has a ton of racial jokes, the n-word gets used a lot for the sake of comedy, there's a ton of rape jokes as well. It's a really funny movie that would absolutely not be made in 2017.
snausagesUK
Member
Yeah, it's like "this person is old therefore his viewpoint is not worth engaging with because he is lesser type of person"
It's not as if you even have to agree with his position here but casual ageism is extremely strong among a lot of people still. It's shockingly awful that this is acceptable.
Apparently Jerry Lewis starred and directed a movie about a clown at a Nazi Concentration camp. I'm not entirely sure if its a comedy, but the movie was so controversial and stupid that they never released it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Day_the_Clown_Cried
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Day_the_Clown_Cried
Mel Brooks can do what he wants.
My criticism of his personal view here is that he doesn't seem to acknowledge that other people might be operating from the same position he is, because he ties his view to such a loaded statement "PC is the death of comedy."
How about...maybe, comedy is evolving. Like it always has and will continue to. And if that means more people are being aware of the historical sensitivities of other groups, what's the big deal? That your racist joke won't be met with the same overwhelming social acceptance it once would have been?
I agree with Brooks. I get that some people will not be happy with certain jokes about race, religion, sex etc but comedy if done right can tackle these subjects and even poke fun at stereotypes. If done wrong it can perpetuate the stereotypes to negative effect and this is where the line that Brooks is talking about comes in.
The problem is that line is moving for the culture and society we live in and even when done right more and more people are becoming offended for the sake of being offended.
Take the South Park transgender thread as an example. Trey and Matt are poking fun at a character who doesn't understand trans/cisgendered people. Immediately people jump on and be offended on behalf of the trans/cisgendered community when members of said community have come out and said they thought it was handled well and was humourous. I think a lot of people struggle to contextualise comedy. The whole point of satire is to take the piss out of society and point out its foibles, downfalls, nuances.
Basically people need to stop being so god damned offended all the time.
The problem is that line is moving for the culture and society we live in and even when done right more and more people are becoming offended for the sake of being offended.
Take the South Park transgender thread as an example. Trey and Matt are poking fun at a character who doesn't understand trans/cisgendered people. Immediately people jump on and be offended on behalf of the trans/cisgendered community when members of said community have come out and said they thought it was handled well and was humourous. I think a lot of people struggle to contextualise comedy. The whole point of satire is to take the piss out of society and point out its foibles, downfalls, nuances.
Basically people need to stop being so god damned offended all the time.
I think comedy is as good as it ever was, and political correctness did a lot of good, though as always with such things, there cases where I think people went with it a bit too far, but generally, I think it moved our society in a positive direction.
Also, as other pointed out, he's not really against political correctness, it's just the he draws the line in a different place than some other people.
Also, as other pointed out, he's not really against political correctness, it's just the he draws the line in a different place than some other people.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
I'd be interested to know why it is Brooks wouldn't do holocaust stuff
Airola
Member
Comedy is an abstract thing. It is not able to evolve into anything. It's the opinions of people that change. And if the opinions change enough, they can suppress what that abstract thing can be.
The problem is regular people think they're funny because they find things funny. Not everybody who has a dark sense of humor should be telling dark jokes publicly. Political correctness means about as much to comedy as holy scripture means to astrophysics. Your ability to laugh at things does not make you a Comedian, capital C.
The best, most talented comedians can find the right angle of attack for the darkest, most abhorrent subjects without offending rational, smart people. That's why we should leave comedy to the professionals.
The best, most talented comedians can find the right angle of attack for the darkest, most abhorrent subjects without offending rational, smart people. That's why we should leave comedy to the professionals.
Do explain.
I think what you're saying has a lot of truth to it. I mean not everyone could have done Blazing Saddles right.
He's 91 and Jewish. He also fought as a soldier in the battle of the bulge in world war 2. I imagine that has a lot to do with it.
But that has always been the case, and will continue to be the case. This is exactly how comedy "evolves," because as one thing becomes off-limits, other things become funny.
We always weep over jokes of the past no longer being accepted. Think about that in the reverse. How much of what we find hilarious today would have been funny 50 years ago. Judging by the look my grandmother gives me when I crack a joke, not very much.
BudokaiMR2
Member
He served in WWII so I wouldn't be surprised if he just saw (or heard first person accounts of more likely) some incredibly horrible shit that makes him not want to revisit those specific topics when creating material.
Seems to be the most likely answer to me. He's done plenty of content about the war and such already.
Mango Positive
Member
Humor in general is an attempt to put a positive spin on a perceived negative subject. With a lot of offensive humor, we laugh not because we support the offensive point of view, but because the punchline was offensive and we weren't expecting it. Anthony Jeselnik is one of the best examples of this.
I used to have a kid, but he died. He died the same way Eric Clapton's kid died... for inspiration.
Horrible! Is it funny because Eric Clapton's kid died? No. It's funny because you weren't expecting the punchline and because you're familiar with that song. (Humor is subjective, so don't reply but it isn't funny, because I promise you that it is.)
I used to have a kid, but he died. He died the same way Eric Clapton's kid died... for inspiration.
Horrible! Is it funny because Eric Clapton's kid died? No. It's funny because you weren't expecting the punchline and because you're familiar with that song. (Humor is subjective, so don't reply but it isn't funny, because I promise you that it is.)
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Airola
Member
But then again that is only your subjective view of what being professional comedian is all about.
You personally accept nuance in dark comedy. Some people don't mind about the lack of nuance. Comedians don't become professional by telling their jokes in a manner you accept.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Comedy is actually about easing pain. Every joke trades on some kind of tragedy (even if it is a micro-tragedy like slipping on a banana peel). The humour reframes the pain as something which we can feel less profoundly shaken by and then allows us to move on with our lives.
And the best jokes strategically trade on society's darkest pains. This is why a Louis CK or Bill Burr set is way more hilarious than a knock knock joke or a"dad joke" (which we scoff at for being "safe" and not tackling real pains). The darkest shit makes for the best humour.
And this is why comedians often push back against restrictions on talking about certain pains. They need to be able to talk about disasters, racism, sexism, tragedy in order to deliver their medicine to the deepest wounds of society.
I would hope that they tackle these subjects in a way that cuts against them in a moral way (i.e. racist jokes that are clever digs against racism and racists >>> racist jokes that make fun of the perceived deficiencies of an ethnic group), but don't suspect the worst just because they ask for the freedom to play in the taboo darkness. They need that freedom or they can't even do what they do.
And the best jokes strategically trade on society's darkest pains. This is why a Louis CK or Bill Burr set is way more hilarious than a knock knock joke or a"dad joke" (which we scoff at for being "safe" and not tackling real pains). The darkest shit makes for the best humour.
And this is why comedians often push back against restrictions on talking about certain pains. They need to be able to talk about disasters, racism, sexism, tragedy in order to deliver their medicine to the deepest wounds of society.
I would hope that they tackle these subjects in a way that cuts against them in a moral way (i.e. racist jokes that are clever digs against racism and racists >>> racist jokes that make fun of the perceived deficiencies of an ethnic group), but don't suspect the worst just because they ask for the freedom to play in the taboo darkness. They need that freedom or they can't even do what they do.
Yeah but your post said you'd be interested to know why he wouldn't tell holocaust jokes. First hand experience of fighting against the nazis during world war 2 is probably the reason.
Gunblade47
Neo Member
I mean humour changed through the ages. If PC culture is indeed the harbinger of death to comedy it will sprout up in another form. And that's a really big IF.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Yeah, I meant I'd be interested in hearing it from him
PC is not and never has been an issue. Frankly I view people who moan about a supposed PC culture as about on a level with men's rights activist. It's a bugbear completely invented by the rightz which ironically has far, far more sacred cows which cannot be touched eg religion, flags, national anthems, the army etc.
Vincent Grayson
Member
Being old does not earn you automatic respect for misguided views.
Moff
Member
I dont think the latter is politically incorrect, though. Especially if it makes fun of bigots and portrays them as idiots.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I agree, because that's just another kind of ageism.
Why are we even talking about age? As if there aren't people born in the 90s or later who wouldn't make the exact same argument as Brooks. People will be making that argument in centuries to come, too.
I guess for a recent example how people were calling for Bill Maher's firing over his shitty joke. I'm fine with the consequence being lost viewers but trying to take away the whole show from his fans over one bad joke with an off limits word is some bullshit. Just call for an apology and move on. Rather a controversial joke be told followed by an apology and maybe a discussion about why it was inappropriate than a comedian hold back for fear of losing their job or advertisers.
My brain was in literal pain after reading the OP's hot take commentary and seeing everybody agree.
Yet another aging comedian whinging about political correctness as a scapegoat for why they're not funny anymore. You're a fucking comedian, if you think it's destroying comedy then make jokes about it! Subvert it! I'd argue that if it wasn't for PC, many modern comedy routines wouldn't be nearly as funny
In my opinion the only things destroying comedy are people whinging about things destroying comedy
In my opinion the only things destroying comedy are people whinging about things destroying comedy
Sometimes people need to be offended. Abuse of political correctness is how we end up with Nazis freely marching in our streets.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
A dominant culture pissed that they now have to consider other groups is how we end up with Nazis marching freely in the streets.
I think that depends on what his shitty joke and off limits word was and the context.
*looks it up*
Oh. Okay. The problem with that isn't he made a bad joke, it's that saying racial slurs that off the cuff in a conversation that isn't about racial slurs tends to cause people to wonder how often he might use racial slurs in private and for what reasons he feels comfortable using racial slurs. He is a personality watched by millions of people, can influence millions of people, and as such what he says and does is heavily scrutinized and judged. See also: Pewdiepie
Widdle Puppy
Banned
And we got ourselves another milkshake duck
I was tempted to post this without context.
Kind of a bad look implying a 91 year old Jewish person who fought in WW2 and made a career in belittling Nazis... might be a Nazi.
Oppo
Member
Maybe you should listen to the one guy that has done more to minimize and ridicule nazis than anyone else, hey?
this thread. you can tell who's young.
BudokaiMR2
Member
If there's one thing I've learned it's that lot of WWII vets usually aren't that ready to talk about what they went through.
I remember in elementary school, we did a project on WWII and were encouraged to ask our grandparents about their experience during the war whether they served or not.
My grandpa was a pretty laid back guy. He could be strict but usually just chilled and fished behind his backyard. I knew he had served because I had seen old pics and such.
I asked him about it while he was watching some old Western in the den and he gave me the most terrible stare where I thought he was gonna take the switch to me. And just kept staring.
I...just left the room and used the encyclopedia software in the library for my project. I did get some stories from my grandmother about helping run the family construction company while him and his brothers were gone.
LyleLanley
Banned
Excellent way to take out any nuance in the discussion so that you can instead paint the guy in the worst possible light.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
^ Isn't it cute how this term is soon going to be as ruined by hyperbole as "Fake News" or "SJWs"?
...what?
I don't have to give a shit about Mel Brooks. I have my own history I can draw from.
benicillin
Banned
Almost as ruined as "political correctness."
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