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[xaosslug]

MS still hasn't learned a thing... I mean did being super powerful and later help the OG XBOX?! Nope. smh We really are returning to PS2 era. LOL

I give this two weeks before they walk it back.

once all the media outlets publish stories about how Xbone S is basically boned it will be 'clarified' by Tuesday. >_>

 

[capitalCORN]

It will be interesting to see who's 4K strategy drives more sales in the long run:

• MS doing native 4K at what will likely be a higher price
• Sony doing checkerboard 4K at a lower price point

I firmly believe Microsoft can't price the Scorpio at $399, so I obviously have that assumption built in.

It all depends on what the market penetration for 4K technology will be. At this point, most broadcast isn't even 1080p. I know in Canada at least one of our mediacorps has already put bank on 4K.

 

[Browarr]

I don't understand that resolution race. I would be happier if games run @60FPS on a lower resolution (720p) instead of seeking desperately higher resolutions with mediocre performance issues.
I know this is a matter of marketing and competition between producers, but do players really care about impressive graphics (on the technical side, not the artistic one) ?

I may not bring absolutely nothing new to the topic, but I will never upgrade to a better version of my current systems.

 

[Luminaire]

It will be interesting to see who's 4K strategy drives more sales in the long run:

• MS doing native 4K at what will likely be a higher price
• Sony doing checkerboard 4K at a lower price point

I firmly believe Microsoft can't price the Scorpio at $399, so I obviously have that assumption built in.

Sony also has a year headstart. There's nothing stopping them from dropping the price of the slim and the pro just before Scoprio's launch.

 

[MilkyJoe]

No because it would be announcement for Dec 2018 lol.

Good luck.

 

[capitalCORN]

ANYONE GOING TO POST A SCREENSHOT OF A PIXAR MOVIE FROM DVD YET?

 

[sankt-Antonio]

So, in a year most gamers will still only own 1080p TV sets (myself included) and with Scorpio going for native 4k i could see the difference in actual gfx content between the two consoles (Scorpio / PS4pro) be rather slim. I really hope they have a very aggressive 1080p mandatory mode with all gfx features set to 11.

Otherwise i don't think much people will care about a somewhat better down sampled image.

 

[Dinky Dino]

I don't think Microsoft charges a cent over $400 for this thing, btw. Isn't a 6TF machine going to be relatively cheap to produce by next summer? That's not bleeding edge for 2017.

Yea it's not too hard. If they use zen no way it'll be 400 but that machine would actually give a stable 60 fps across a large number of titles at 1080p making it worthy of a 500 dollar price tag. DF seems to think it's using jaguar though judging by what they showed at e3.

 

[Bgamer90]

MS still hasn't learned a thing... I mean did being super powerful and later help the OG XBOX?! Nope. smh We really are returning to PS2 era. LOL

Third party games mean far more now than they did back then and on the flip side, exclusives mean less. The Xbox brand was brand new during that time too. That (obviously) isn't true now.

I'm not expecting Scorpio to help put overall Xbox sales above PS4 but I definitely think its power will help the brand's position in territories that the Xbox brand is actually relevant in.

 

[cw_sasuke]

So much negativity in this thread lol. That's good news, people who don't need 4k output or that kind of hardware can still buy the regular One S.

Hardware shortcoming were a big counter argument against the One pre launch compared to the PS4. Now you are getting the most powerful console as an option, don't get the hate. Especially if first partys are committed to go all out on those new specs.

 

[WaterAstro]

Scorpio will be $2999 have Titan Xs in SLi lol

 

[Browarr]

So much negativity in this thread lol. That's good news, people who don't need 4k output or that kind of hardware can still buy the regular One S.

Hardware shortcoming were a big counter argument against the One pre launch compared to the PS4. Now you are getting the most powerful console as an option, don't get the hate. Especially if first partys are committed to go all out on those new specs.

I guess this the good point of bringing a better running console model, the default version will get cheaper (as it is for the PS4 slim).

 

[Riky]

Native 4k sounds good to me, timing seems better as 4k sets and HDR standards should have settled down by the time Scorpio hits. I will go for a 4k TV with the new console.

 

[justsomeguy]

It will be interesting to see who's 4K strategy drives more sales in the long run:

• MS doing native 4K at what will likely be a higher price
• Sony doing checkerboard 4K at a lower price point

I firmly believe Microsoft can't price the Scorpio at $399, so I obviously have that assumption built in.

No reason 3rd party devs won't also do checkerboard rendering on Scorpio. MS are just talking first party titles.

E: ah I missed your point - yeah, diminishing returns kicks in at some point but don't forget Scorpio looks like it may have more ram, better cpu, etc - it is not just about the exact same game but at 4K res

 

[onQ123]

It's a fact of the hardware. Some games will hit it but others will be lower and upscaled.

If a game is 1080p on Xbox 1 it should hit 4k native on Scorpio. If it's 900p it will likely be upscaled from 1800p to 4k.l, If it's 720p then it'll be upscaled from 1440p.

So I can see forza being 4k/60. I can see lots of multiplats being 1800p and stuff like battlefield being 1440p.

I think you need about 12Tflops to do 4k properly and consistently. That won't be viable until the PS5 and the next gen Xbox are out which could be 2020 depending on when the next node shrink is available for high volume ramping.

If Scorpio is the most powerful console on the market they get to set the standard for what a game must look like in 4K so if they need to turn down some settings to hit 4K they can it's not like their game is going to look worse then it does on other consoles.

 

[N30RYU]

So... just like the One... Forza 1080/60... Rise 900/30

 

[Renekton]

Can 6TF cut it?

My 290X is still struggling even at 30fps.

 

[killatopak]

I wonder how the game would look on XBO if they make it 4K on scorpio.

 

[chronic_archaic]

MS still hasn't learned a thing... I mean did being super powerful and later help the OG XBOX?! Nope. smh We really are returning to PS2 era. LOL



once all the media outlets publish stories about how Xbone S is basically boned it will be 'clarified' by Tuesday. >_>

You're not wrong but the industry is really different to be fair. If anything I see this as more of a we have the money to do it sort of thing than them trying to actually beat Sony since that just won't happen. Not anywhere but the US anyway.

 

[Ashler]

At this point I'd just go for a PC, if I was interested in the Microsoft platform.

 

[Raiden]

Please put in 1080p/60fps alternative modes for your games as well. No way any of those games at 4k will be able to run at 60fps.

Scorpio is helluva lot more powerful than the regular one right? Doesnt it make sense that the Scorpio can run those at 4k while holding the same resolution no?

 

[Lil'DigiOp]

wellthereitis.gif

Pretty much, Devs and hype culture die on this hill.

They'll hit 4K natively with ease but it'll def be 30 locked in a best case scenario. I see some 45-60 titles popping up, but if its 4K sub 30 then MS is gonna get talked about.

 

[onQ123]

It will be interesting to see who's 4K strategy drives more sales in the long run:

• MS doing native 4K at what will likely be a higher price
• Sony doing checkerboard 4K at a lower price point

I firmly believe Microsoft can't price the Scorpio at $399, so I obviously have that assumption built in.

Sony is going to win because PS4 Pro is a more powerful PS4 for about the same price the PS4 was & Xbox Scorpio is a more powerful Xbox One that might be around $499.

Scorpio will be lucky if they actually get dev support outside of UWP games

 

[Durante]

That's really not surprising or unbelievable.

They want their games to also run on XB1, which is a 1.2 TF device. Going from 1.2 to 6 a 4x resolution increase is trivial, even with additional upgrades.

 

[Auto-Reply]

It all depends on what the market penetration for 4K technology will be. At this point, most broadcast isn't even 1080p. I know in Canada at least one of our mediacorps has already put bank on 4K.

I think the general understanding about resolution (native/non-native) is only gibberish to the wider audience out there. It feels more like Sony is using this to drive tv sales via the HDR angle and not so much the 4k angle, I don't see Microsoft having much to work with here that can be used effectively for marketing.

"We have real 4k" - nobody cares because nobody really understands.
"Because of that our price is a little higher" - that is something people will understand lol

 

[darkwing]

if they price it at $399 then it will sell like hotcakes

 

[kraspkibble]

a 6TF system should manage 4K 30fps fine. my 1070 can run games at well over that with a lot of high settings and it's 6.5TF. the 980 ti which is similar performance of the 1070 is 5.6TF i think. so the scorpio will sit right in the middle of it.

the difference in power between the ps4 pro and scorpio is that the PS4Pro will upscale to 4K and the scorpio will be native 4K. upscaling to 4K does look nice and way better than 1080p but native 4K is even more impressive. when sony brings the PS5 then consoles will officially be in the 4K generation.

 

[cheezcake]

This would be arguing the same framerate over both versions, which is not the case. I argued image quality.

The framerate difference between the versions isn't enough to account for the 40% difference in power between a PS4 and XB1, the extra effects on the PS4 version account for that. I'm still failing to see what point you're trying to make. The FLOP difference between both consoles completely describes the differences in GTA V between the PS4 and XB1 console. Unless you think the increased foliage density requires 40% more power which is obviously just not true.

 

[onanie]

a 6TF system should manage 4K 30fps fine. my 1070 can run games at well over that with a lot of high settings and it's 6.5TF. the 980 ti which is similar performance of the 1070 is 5.6TF i think. so the scorpio will sit right in the middle of it.

the difference in power between the ps4 pro and scorpio is that the PS4Pro will upscale to 4K and the scorpio will be native 4K. upscaling to 4K does look nice and way better than 1080p but native 4K is even more impressive. if sony wants to compete with that then we need the PS5.

The PS4 Pro is already competitive by virtue of being a year early and likely cheaper, while the PS5 is a given.

 

[Stilton Disco]

Great for the tiny percentage of people with 4K TV sets who can also tell the difference between native and chequerboard rendering.

I need to know what what the advantages will be for 1080p sets, as well more importantly, what they plan on doing about their anaemic first party output and why I should be buying a new console for it instead of just upgrading my PC.

I mean Nintendo managed to persuade me to buy a WiiU eventually, and that thing is basically a toaster you have to play using a tea tray. Power alone is not going to fix all their problems.

 

[capitalCORN]

I think the general understanding about resolution (native/non-native) is only gibberish to the wider audience out there. It feels more like Sony is using this to drive tv sales via the HDR angle and not so much the 4k angle, I don't see Microsoft having much to work with here that can be used effectively for marketing.

"We have real 4k" - nobody cares because nobody really understands.
"Because of that our price is a little higher" - that is something people will understand lol

I think we already know Sony's stance in their baffling exclusion of a 4K medium. HDR isn't going to be saddled on 1080p screens. If people want to adopt the standard, they'll have to pay for the pair. I think there are enough vested interests to put good money into proliferating the 4K standard. It's not strictly restricted to games after all. If you want a good demo, go to your local AV shop, it's enough to blow your socks off.

The framerate difference between the versions isn't enough to account for the 40% difference in power between a PS4 and XB1, the extra effects on the PS4 version account for that. I'm still failing to see what point you're trying to make. The FLOP difference between both consoles completely describes the differences in GTA V between the PS4 and XB1 console.

If you don't like that example, I already described Project Cars. Not to mention a wealth of other examples at DF.

 

[Bits N Pieces]

I give this two weeks before they walk it back.

Really? You think in the next fortnight that Microsoft are going to come out and say that first party games launching for Scorpio won't be 4K? Not talking third party here but first and second party studios. That's a peculiar viewpoint.

 

[Saint of Killers]

That's really not surprising or unbelievable.

They want their games to also run on XB1, which is a 1.2 TF device. Going from 1.2 to 6 a 4x resolution increase is trivial, even with additional upgrades.

Obviously you don't *know* know, but would you be willing to share your guess at the ballpark figure of what Scorpio may cost?

 

[captainraincoat]

check board rendering....its gonna get thrown around like the new blast processing or mode 7 of this generation

 

[Bitch Pudding]

scorpio seems too good to be true.

Wonder how this will be a let down.

Not a let down exactly, but if I had to guess:

- not ALL games will render 4k natively (I look at you, Frostbite games)
- people realizing they have to choose between XBOX One (medium) settings @ native 4k or (Ultra-)High PC settings at 1080p
- people pissed because that the cannot choose between XBOX One (medium) settings @ native 4k or (Ultra-)High PC settings at 1080p in certain games, because only the 4k option is offered.

At the end, the Scorpio suffers the exact same problems as the PS4 Pro; w/o a decent 4k TV you cannot exploit this console's possibilities.

 

[anothertech]

It'll render at 4K. Great. I just want to know at what cost to performance/overall visual effects.

Yup. Frame rates and visuals to take a hit for their first party titles then I assume. Devs feel 4K rendered is a waste of resources for a reason.

 

[cheezcake]

If you don't like that example, I already described Project Cars. Not to mention a wealth of other examples at DF.

Pcars has both a framerate advantage and res advantages so that's a valid comparison. But I'm not sure about the "wealth" of other examples you're talking about, it seems to be the exception rather than the rule.

 

[amstradcpc]

Scorpio would need 8,4 Tflops to have the same graphics level at 4k native as a 4,2 Tflops game outputting half the pixels of 4K checkboarded to 4K.
What a waste of power, seriously, this resolution thing is eating all the advances in gpu tech in last ten years.

 

[mrklaw]

The Scorpio quickly turned into one of my least favorite topics in recent gaming. What an amazing job by Microsoft, and similarly amazing set of customer relation slip ups by Sony, that a vague, hypothetical console with the promise of 4k within budget and spec restraints that a console inherently brings is suddenly being looked at as some sort of beast over the horizon.

The fact it's a year out, with no leaked specs, no solid developer impressions, and that it's relying on the promise of achieving a resolution that we've already seen is not completely understood by the mainstream is what causes my ire. Asking "should I buy a PC or a Scorpio?" illicits the same reaction from me as "should I buy an iPhone 7 or 8?" We simply don't know, and going off the company's promises, especially the one losing the sales and mindshare battle, is only going to create unjustified hype leading to a lot of letdowns.

Anyway, 4K is cool.

Promises and hype all elicit 'what ifs' from the crowd. Finally we'll get native 4K, maybe 60fps if it uses zen cores. No actual spec leaves a vacuum that ends up being filled with hopes and dreams. Same with PS4 pro with rumours of spec bumps right up until the reveal. Now it's a dirty, real thing with little room for people to massage to their own desires, so we all move on to Scorpio

We basically do this to ourselves every damn time.

 

[Fredrik]

scorpio seems too good to be true.

Wonder how this will be a let down.

People will be let down since they're expecting it to cost $399.

 

[JawzPause]

4k hdr tvs really need to come down in price for this to be relevant

 

[johnnydrama]

Scorpio would need 8,4 Tflops to have the same graphics level as a 4,2 Tflops game outputting half the pixels of 4K checkboarded to 4K.

Math checks out.

 

[chadskin]

a 6TF system should manage 4K 30fps fine. my 1070 can run games at well over that with a lot of high settings and it's 6.5TF. the 980 ti which is similar performance of the 1070 is 5.6TF i think. so the scorpio will sit right in the middle of it.

the difference in power between the ps4 pro and scorpio is that the PS4Pro will upscale to 4K and the scorpio will be native 4K. upscaling to 4K does look nice and way better than 1080p but native 4K is even more impressive. when sony brings the PS5 then consoles will officially be in the 4K generation.

AMD TFLOPS and Nvidia TFLOPS aren't comparable. The RX 480 has 5.9TF and competes with the GTX 1060, not the 1070.

The RX 480 was not a card designed for 4K, and it shows. While it can run some moderately demanding games above 30 average FPS, it often does so by the skin of its teeth. At that point, you’re better of playing at a lower resolution or turning down graphical settings to get a smoother experience.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/amd-radeon-rx-480-review/1100-6441354/

 

[amstradcpc]

Math checks out.

checked.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

The Scorpio quickly turned into one of my least favorite topics in recent gaming. What an amazing job by Microsoft, and similarly amazing set of customer relation slip ups by Sony, that a vague, hypothetical console with the promise of 4k within budget and spec restraints that a console inherently brings is suddenly being looked at as some sort of beast over the horizon.

The fact it's a year out, with no leaked specs, no solid developer impressions, and that it's relying on the promise of achieving a resolution that we've already seen is not completely understood by the mainstream is what causes my ire. Asking "should I buy a PC or a Scorpio?" illicits the same reaction from me as "should I buy an iPhone 7 or 8?" We simply don't know, and going off the company's promises, especially the one losing the sales and mindshare battle, is only going to create unjustified hype leading to a lot of letdowns.

Anyway, 4K is cool.

Yeah it was an amazing move on their part. Considering its been going on since E3

 

[Auto-Reply]

I think we already know Sony's stance in their baffling exclusion of a 4K medium. HDR isn't going to be saddled on 1080p screens. If people want to adopt the standard, they'll have to pay for the pair. I think there are enough vested interests to put good money into proliferating the 4K standard. It's not strictly restricted to games after all. If you want a good demo, go to your local AV shop, it's enough to blow your socks off.

Maybe Microsoft is expecting people to do just that, I don't know. I personally wouldn't base my entire strategy on that though and would look for something more tangible to get the attention of possible buyers.

 

[2blackcats]

Stop embarrassing yourselves and invest in some games. Ffs.

 

[thuway]

Third party games mean far more now than they did back then and on the flip side, exclusives mean less. The Xbox brand was brand new during that time too. That (obviously) isn't true now.

I'm not expecting Scorpio to help put overall Xbox sales above PS4 but I definitely think its power will help the brand's position in territories that the Xbox brand is actually relevant in.

There are plenty of big road blocks though. Is the promise of 6TF and native 4k enough to answer these scenarios:

1. Can Microsoft convince Playstation gamers to abandon the largest multiplatform player base and their purchases for an entirely new ecosystem?
2. Can Microsoft manage to actually demonstrate a visual leap over PS4 Pro that would justify its higher price tag and existence?
3. Can Scorpio successfully establish substantial marketplace in the face of ab early Playstation 5 announcement and launch day PS4 Pro price drop?

Sony desperately needs Playstation to be successful because the entire corporation is sailing by on its success and are in my opinion more prone to throw the kitchen sink out the window if need be. Microsoft has much less reason to throw caution in the wind.


This is a tough place to be for Scorpio. It's exciting for us as consumers but Microsoft will have to plan these console iterations successfully because a 7nm shrink in 2019 sounds right on time for a Playstation 5 and this same cycle to repeat.

 

[Guymelef]

So still the same graphics but 4K.
Bad choice.

if they price it at $399 then it will sell like hotcakes

In US you mean.

 

[cheezcake]

AMD TFLOPS and Nvidia TFLOPS aren't comparable. The RX 480 has 5.9TF and competes with the GTX 1060, not the 1070.


http://www.gamespot.com/articles/amd-radeon-rx-480-review/1100-6441354/

The 400 series is actually quite weird in that the 380, which can achieve 5.9 Tflops on the boost clock, performs on par or slightly worse than the R9 390 which is a 5.1 Tflop card, and significantly worse than the 390X which is also a 5.9 Tflop card. Obviously it's way cheaper but it seems that perf per FLOP actually went down into the transition to polaris architecture, so a 6 Tflop polaris chip might end up being very disappointing.