Exactly what I'm expecting.
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Microsoft: Our (1st party) games will render at native 4K at Scorpio launch
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
There's a lot more at play than just teraflop counts. In any case the RX480 is 6 TF when running in a fully powered mode. You could ways compare that to a 380x.
capitalCORN
Member
You can understand that I can't juggle through two years of memory of technical comparisons at the drop of a hat. A recent one is Mirror's Edge, with enough stark image quality differences. Another one is the FFXV demos. The website is there for you to discover.
Pretty sure there's going to be a media blitz incoming. Sammy and LG aren't building 4K TVs so they can just sit in warehouses, and I can't imagine they want to keep the market at the high end indefinetly. There's a lot more vested companies as well.
If they spunk their TF on native 4K versions of games running at XB1 levels of detail, then no.
If they use the power smartly, then probably still no, but maybe a little
Yeah, exactly. And like Digital Foundry and NX Gamer have both mentioned recently, the resources could be spent better elsewhere in a lot of cases.
supernormal
Member
The only letdown would be your third point, which would really suck. Regarding the first two points Microsoft has been pretty open about these things in the interviews regarding the Scorpio. What you can expect is the same quality of Xbox One games running at 4k resolutions. Where the variables come in, is the comment where developers can choose to use the power however they feel benefits their game best. Which pretty much means choosing a lower resolution to free resources for other effects.
D
Deleted member 465307
Unconfirmed Member
I'm going to guess this is what happens as well. However, downsampling from 4k or 1440p on a 1080p TV will still be a big IQ improvement for many games, especially any 900p or 720p games.
cheezcake
Member
Well the in game benchmarks would ofc be running at boost clock, and the benchmarks show it's slightly weaker than the 380 and much weaker than a 380x.
Of course fair enough. Mirror's Edge has equivalent graphics settings between the versions, aside from resolution being PS4 at 900p and XB1 rat 720p (900p/720p = 1.56) which is a bit above the expected difference, but that's sort of bought back by a slightly better framerate on XB1. I also sort of want to refrain from using demos as an example as both version are clearly suffering performance problems judging by the DF article.
theDeeDubs
Member
Even though I probably waver a little MS lately, this is pretty much how I feel about it. At worst, the pro will carry on the status quo by being the real de facto PS4, which means it will be successful. At best, it'll capture double dippers (hell I am guilty of buying aesthetic/slimmer refreshes even in previous gens) and keep some people buying within their ecosystem longer instead of moving to the PC, which means it'll be really successful. Can't really lose there to be honest.
It's going to be a long year for MS I think, and for those of us waiting for this thing. While I think announcing like they did was a brilliant move (their only move really), how long until we're tired of hearing about it? I'm anxious to see how they trickle out PR once November hits.
Auto-Reply
Member
You maybe thinking that the success of Scorpio is directly linked to the success of the 4k standard? In which case I don't know what to tell you except that it might turn out to be like that but it could be completely independent from another as well. That goes for both scenarios, Scorpio could become very successful while 4k is sluggishly crawling along or 4k is taking off in a big way while nobody cares for Scorpio.
Who is and who is not invested in pushing 4k is not a barometer for Microsofts success with scorpio.
AndyMoogle
Member
They should be able to render an average Xbox One title at 4k 30 fps. Which means low/medium settings or so, if we are going to compare to PC titles.
People need to stop saying this. IMO, people who DON'T have a 4k TV will be the real winners here. Downsampling will look great on a 1080p TV, while games that don't render at 4k will look kind of meh on an actual 4k TV. When consoles come with 12+ TFLOPS GPUs, that's when 4k TVs will be worth it for console owners.
IgotElbows
Member
If it rendered all/most games at NATIVE 4k.
The console would have to at least be 500$? And even that would have to be selling at a loss?
Maybe 400$ and a bigger loss, but 400$ for native 4k is pretty insane.
The console would have to at least be 500$? And even that would have to be selling at a loss?
Maybe 400$ and a bigger loss, but 400$ for native 4k is pretty insane.
If the GPU will indeed be the 6 tf one, I'm expecting xbox one shadow, effect and texture resolution. Maybe a tiny bit above.
2blackcats
Member
But why commit to something like that? Wonder what their devs are thinking?
While I'm sure there will be a 4K setting for every first party game I bet there will be lower resolution options that use the juice of the console in a more balanced way that will look awesome.
While I'm sure there will be a 4K setting for every first party game I bet there will be lower resolution options that use the juice of the console in a more balanced way that will look awesome.
Sithlord77
Banned
With the advent of 4K won't the text be even smaller on games?
poodaddy
Member
They're not compressed at all man, I mean they're the highest quality pixels money can buy dawg.
Yautja_Warrior
Member
Will be interesting to see how this plays out. They seem very cocky about this, making sure they get a dig at Sony, yet they are still a year away from Scorpio.
4k is extremely resources heavy, even pushing something like a i7 6700k and GTX 1080 or Titan X to its limits (no 4k/60fps Ultra yet) If they are forcing devs to do native 4k then they might get games that don't look any better than the PS4 Pro (Graphically) and depending on Scorpio's price, will give Sony the advantage again, as Pro will probably be cheaper too.
4k is extremely resources heavy, even pushing something like a i7 6700k and GTX 1080 or Titan X to its limits (no 4k/60fps Ultra yet) If they are forcing devs to do native 4k then they might get games that don't look any better than the PS4 Pro (Graphically) and depending on Scorpio's price, will give Sony the advantage again, as Pro will probably be cheaper too.
Yeah I really don't get it. We still don't have systems that will be able to manage most games at 1080p.
I don't believe anything Xbox PR spews at this point. The constant back paddling is pissing me off; not only Spencer himself but the lower level PR crowd also spreads misinformation and then back paddles constantly. Blergh
So yeah, I wouldn't read too much into this statement either.
So yeah, I wouldn't read too much into this statement either.
capitalCORN
Member
I think I was remembering the beta test for Mirror's Edge, where there was a large difference between versions. Like I said, I can't be expected to account for every title difference at the drop of a hat. Another notable one is Tomb Raider: Definitive Edition. One that clearly demonstrates difference above simple raw performance. There's more if you want to look for it.
Neither the PS4P nor Scorpio succeed if 4K goes nowhere. If you've been witness to it in person, a native 4K screen beats the daylights out of any approximation method. Scorpio has the lead to take the win.
Analysts were surprised that the PS4 Pro is launching at $399. For what MS is promising on power, I don't see any scenario where Scorpio launches at the same price. Even a year out, they would almost assuredly be selling this console at a loss out of the gates if they list at $399.
Keep in mind that MS also need to put a 4K bluray player into Scorpio...they can't talk shit on Sony for missing this in the PS4 Pro and not include it in Scorpio. So that's additional $ on top of what I mentioned above.
I am thinking $449 or $499; any higher than that and it becomes a meme.
Maximilian Kolbe
Member
Are you guys seriously that act like the price 100% confirmed will be 499 or 399 or 999 or whatever when there still 1+ year to go.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
Pretty easy given the hardware. Just don't expect big framerate upgrades or major graphical differences between itself and the OG. Although there should be a little bit of room left in the tank for those too.
But still I think this will be more of an early thing to showcase they can actually hit 4K. I think most games in the future will drop to dynamic resolutions or similar, so they have the headroom to keep pushing graphics a bit.
But still I think this will be more of an early thing to showcase they can actually hit 4K. I think most games in the future will drop to dynamic resolutions or similar, so they have the headroom to keep pushing graphics a bit.
I feel 'gamers' brought this resolution thing on ourselves, especially this gen, with all the 1080p garbage. I use the term 'gamers' very loosely and not in reference to all people who play games.
I hope this is not where Microsoft got this idea, which I feel is less than ideal.
I hope this is not where Microsoft got this idea, which I feel is less than ideal.
Developers are deliberately choosing 30 FPS because the visual fidelity disparity is enough to justify its existence.
Gamers have lived through a previous generation where plenty of games targeted 30 FPS on console. Those same games struggle to hit 60 FPS on current gen hardware at 1080p. If you need 60 FPS - please consider a gaming PC, and don't act surprised when your shiny 800 dollar rig struggles to maintain 60 FPS on some new title because at this point time (unfortunately) - a specific group of developers and hardware manufacturers find the visual fidelity at 30 FPS far more important.
As they say it's the way the cookie crumbles.
If you do some reading on component costs, look at what price consoles historically launch at, and see how much similar products are selling for right now....it's not difficult to estimate a price range. No one knows but I will tell you now it's going to be higher than $399 based on how powerful they're saying it's going to be.
I'm wondering if there's something they could cut down on to make a lower entry point option. Like a 500gb hard drive.
I must admit, I'm a little concerned at the native 4k standpoint. So many people have said they want 1080p at 60fps, but companies like Sony and Microsoft seem to be adament to ramp up the pixel count but feedback suggests otherwise.
It seems like Scorpio is just a 4k machine as apposed to pushing the graphics. I guess that helps them stay in the same power/resolution ratio and just carry one making XB1 games but having scorpio push them to 4k.
I can't help think that Scorpoio will price themselves out of the market.
Colin at KindaFunny says games are about gameplay and absolutely that is true. However, for me a fluid framerate can increase the fun factor from an already well designed game.
It seems like Scorpio is just a 4k machine as apposed to pushing the graphics. I guess that helps them stay in the same power/resolution ratio and just carry one making XB1 games but having scorpio push them to 4k.
I can't help think that Scorpoio will price themselves out of the market.
Colin at KindaFunny says games are about gameplay and absolutely that is true. However, for me a fluid framerate can increase the fun factor from an already well designed game.
DoctorEkkoUK
Member
I think we could be looking at an £800/$1000 machine. If people will pay that for an iphone why not a games console.
They could even use a contract system like with phone plans for people who don't want to pay the full stand-alone price. didn't they do something similar with the xbox360 once?
They could even use a contract system like with phone plans for people who don't want to pay the full stand-alone price. didn't they do something similar with the xbox360 once?
WaterAstro
Member
I just realized it's quoting that lady who made pretty incorrect statements during E3.
I bet she'll be corrected at some point.
I bet she'll be corrected at some point.
capitalCORN
Member
How is a higher resolution not better graphics?!?!?! Is this Gen 5/6 console days where people flippantly disregarded the PC's resolution advantage?
Consider the lithography / architecture, look at component costs in the GPU space, rationalize power/heat draw and size.
From there you can guess what needs to happen in a ball park. This thing won't be 399. At the minimum, in my opinion, the box will be 50 percent bigger/heavier than PS4 Pro with a symmetrical increase in power draw and thermals.
I'm sure they're going to try and cut costs wherever they can, but with the GPU, CPU, and RAM increases that will be required probably won't offset that.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
It doesn't have an i7 and a GTX 1070.
It will be $499 tops. Any higher and it wouldn't sell in any meaningful numbers. The AMD hardware they have proposed is easily doable in that price bracket.
Maybe they can even throw an Elite controller in too, modernized with blueteeth!
I'm kind of confused by the title. I just get the message, that they will make sure that the developer can go the 4k route if they want, that the hardware will support it, but not that they they have to... My own comment confused me even more, but i just don't know if "will" is the right word to use, "can" sounds better here 
Edit: Loftis used can herself. Just a small gripe i have.
Edit: Loftis used can herself. Just a small gripe i have.
Obscuritas
Member
longdi
Banned
Remember people waited for PS2 and PS3 because of the promise of a new gneration. People expect new things from new generation. Sony also showed demos/pre-renders that looks better than previous gen.
Scorpio rendering native 4k for first party titles, is just a drop in the bucket. Unless MS is promoting Scorpio as a new gen, or crazy enough to undercut PS4p at 349, nothing will change. MS is just beating their chest and acting half-humble, '4thegamers'.
Scorpio rendering native 4k for first party titles, is just a drop in the bucket. Unless MS is promoting Scorpio as a new gen, or crazy enough to undercut PS4p at 349, nothing will change. MS is just beating their chest and acting half-humble, '4thegamers'.
tattooed_dwarf
Member
I'm not sure how I feel about this. I think they should focus more on better IQ and effects than just chasing 4k native. Have those 1st party games as visually as good as can be.
Actually they put a lot of emphasis on the 4k tech since the beginning.
What is that on the chip with 4K? I can't make it out
SlickShoes
Member
This whole thing is lost on me, I won't have a 4k TV so my consoles and PC are all still living in 1080p land. My eyesight is not great so like someone else in the thread when I play any games in my living room on the TV telling the difference between resolutions is nearly impossible for me. I'd imagine it's similar for anyone that doesn't sit close to the screen too.
The one good thing that comes out of all of this is that we no longer have two companies trying to release a product at the same time, they are now off cycle with eachother so they can see what eachother do and adjust accordingly. This is probably the best outcome for us as consumers as we are going to have something better/more powerful out every 2-3 years at this current rate.
I guess the big thing now is that when one company releases the other has to get their messaging on point to entice current users to jump platform when they eventually release. Sony has a huge upper hand here with the success of the PS4, they have all those people in their ecosystem already. I can see MS winning back the US but other territories seem too far gone, the scorpio has to be a total reset for them marketing and engagement wise with EU and Asia.
The one good thing that comes out of all of this is that we no longer have two companies trying to release a product at the same time, they are now off cycle with eachother so they can see what eachother do and adjust accordingly. This is probably the best outcome for us as consumers as we are going to have something better/more powerful out every 2-3 years at this current rate.
I guess the big thing now is that when one company releases the other has to get their messaging on point to entice current users to jump platform when they eventually release. Sony has a huge upper hand here with the success of the PS4, they have all those people in their ecosystem already. I can see MS winning back the US but other territories seem too far gone, the scorpio has to be a total reset for them marketing and engagement wise with EU and Asia.
Yea most games rendering at native 4k on Scorpio will be technically ass.
Halo 5 rarely ever hits 1080P, most of the time it is 900P and lower. It won't be able to hit 4K and 60FPS even on a Scorpio. You require a powerful CPU and a 980Ti to run Halo 5 at 4K/60....Scorpio is not as powerful as a 980Ti and the CPU is bad as well all know.