Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Can people stop fake trolling so we can laugh at the people who actually believe the ridiculous crap they write?
No one 'deserves' to win a month, they're either creating a desireable product or they're not.
Frankly, given how big a loss they're having to take and how much extra value they're needing to bundle in to even have a shot at outselling the competition, in the month where they have their biggest games of the year releasing alongside tie in marketing for 2 of the years biggest third party titles, and that it's still too close to call, I'd say in balance a better argument can be made for them not deserving to.
They made a product the consumer at large has rejected and they're buying their way into a sales lead at the expense of making a profit, and that's both unsustainable and a way of manipulating the market that is a prime example of how broken and underhanded big business and unregulated capitalism can be.
But again, who ever sells the most is simply whoever offers their goods to the consumer at better value. Who 'deserves' it, is neither here nor there.
Unsustainable because even if they're making enough profit elsewhere to cover it as a company, making a constant loss going forward is going to piss off a lot of the MS shareholders, especially those who are already very vocal about wanting the Xbox division sold off. It gets to a point where the entire division just ends up being a vanity project without a clear end goal beyond selling more than Sony, and that's not exactly a worthwhile exorcise.
I say underhanded and market manipulation because they're simply throwing money at people rather than offering a more desireable product in the first place.
They're selling the hardware they make at a loss and they're giving away free games and free Live subscriptions just in the hopes of selling more than a rival product that up until now has been a far more desirable one to the consumer. And that's not even taking into account the discounted rate they must have offered retailers for the huge volume of stock they're currently flooding the market with, that must be translating to an even greater loss than normal. If they didn't have the rest of MS's big pockets to bail them out it would be financial suicide to conduct business like this, its completely contrary to the way consumerist capitalism is meant to work, and it has no real benefits long term beyond saving face for a month or 2 and maybe, maybe getting enough customers to long term make up the losses in future purchases, but given just how big a loss they must be incurring, and the fact that they seem to be targeting bargain hunters and non-early adopters, I'd be very surprised if that panned out.
Sure, it benefits anyone getting an XO this Christmas because you save a huge amount of money, but in the end MS are just spending an absurd amount of money on the hope of getting some good publicity, and even that's not guaranteed.
Ultimately, they made an inferior, expensive, and ultimately less desirable product. They ruined their public image with blatant anticonsumer behaviour and failed to either right all those wrongs, or adequately express to the public that they'd done so with the policy changes they have made. They've been paying for those mistakes all year with lower than desired sales, and a strong competitor that's performing better. Now they're just buying their way to better sales.
Even better post. Sadly those that want Xbox to win no matter what or believe "anything goes" for businesses to compete won't care to accept these facts.
Unsustainable because even if they're making enough profit elsewhere to cover it as a company, making a constant loss going forward is going to piss off a lot of the MS shareholders, especially those who are already very vocal about wanting the Xbox division sold off. It gets to a point where the entire division just ends up being a vanity project without a clear end goal beyond selling more than Sony, and that's not exactly a worthwhile exorcise.
I say underhanded and market manipulation because they're simply throwing money at people rather than offering a more desireable product in the first place.
They're selling the hardware they make at a loss and they're giving away free games and free Live subscriptions just in the hopes of selling more than a rival product that up until now has been a far more desirable one to the consumer. And that's not even taking into account the discounted rate they must have offered retailers for the huge volume of stock they're currently flooding the market with, that must be translating to an even greater loss than normal. If they didn't have the rest of MS's big pockets to bail them out it would be financial suicide to conduct business like this, its completely contrary to the way consumerist capitalism is meant to work, and it has no real benefits long term beyond saving face for a month or 2 and maybe, maybe getting enough customers to long term make up the losses in future purchases, but given just how big a loss they must be incurring, and the fact that they seem to be targeting bargain hunters and non-early adopters, I'd be very surprised if that panned out.
Sure, it benefits anyone getting an XO this Christmas because you save a huge amount of money, but in the end MS are just spending an absurd amount of money on the hope of getting some good publicity, and even that's not guaranteed.
Ultimately, they made an inferior, expensive, and ultimately less desirable product. They ruined their public image with blatant anticonsumer behaviour and failed to either right all those wrongs, or adequately express to the public that they'd done so with the policy changes they have made. They've been paying for those mistakes all year with lower than desired sales, and a strong competitor that's performing better. Now they're just buying their way to better sales.
They really deserve to win at least a month.
Question, I bought an Xbone bundle with digital codes for AC Unity, Black Flag, Dance Central and Advanced Warfare. Does eBay allow me to sell digital codes? I figure I could make at least 120 off them.
Sony's issue is providing the other territories outside of NA with stock during the holiday period as well.
MS only has to focus on NA and the UK and stuff those channels. Sony covers a bigger market. Hopefully they've manufactured enough Ps4 consoles. They can't afford any shortages, especially not in NA and the Uk.
I am going to keep it it simple. I own both systems, but Xbox One has easily been the better system in terms of exclusives, the OS, update support and the controller. But I fully expect the PS4 to start flexing it's muscles in 2015. It looks much better going forward.
I am going to keep it it simple. I own both systems, but Xbox One has easily been the better system in terms of exclusives, the OS, update support and the controller. But I fully expect the PS4 to start flexing it's muscles in 2015. It looks much better going forward.
I don't care who wins, unless you're having reading comprehension issues. It's also good short term for those individual buyers doesn't mean longer term it's worse for the industry.Who cares who wins november sales? Is it really so important to you guys that you need to create/defend a moral/business defeat for MS?
The only winners are those who recently bought the Xbox One. Because they got it cheaper than expected and there are great exclusive games to play. Is that something to be mad about ?
not sure if this was posted yet. interesting take.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/markrog...-tripled-but-is-that-less-than-meets-the-eye/
Who cares who wins november sales? Is it really so important to you guys that you need to create/defend a moral/business defeat for MS?
The only winners are those who recently bought the Xbox One. Because they got it cheaper than expected and there are great exclusive games to play. Is that something to be mad about ?
They're selling the hardware they make at a loss and they're giving away free games and free Live subscriptions just in the hopes of selling more than a rival product that up until now has been a far more desirable one to the consumer. And that's not even taking into account the discounted rate they must have offered retailers for the huge volume of stock they're currently flooding the market with, that must be translating to an even greater loss than normal. If they didn't have the rest of MS's big pockets to bail them out it would be financial suicide to conduct business like this, its completely contrary to the way consumerist capitalism is meant to work, and it has no real benefits long term beyond saving face for a month or 2 and maybe, maybe getting enough customers to long term make up the losses in future purchases, but given just how big a loss they must be incurring, and the fact that they seem to be targeting bargain hunters and non-early adopters, I'd be very surprised if that panned out.
Sure, it benefits anyone getting an XO this Christmas because you save a huge amount of money...
He's assuming - and is probably right - that MS has been paying for all the free games as well.Do you have a source for the assertion they are selling at a loss? $50 off retail doesn't seem like such a massive price cut to me.
Nice.
I was one of the ones that took the bait, and ended up purchasing an SO Bundle. I don't regret it because video games is a hobby, and there's some worthy exclusives.
That's being said, the more I use the XBO, the more I agree with the bolded part.
He's assuming - and is probably right - that MS has been paying for all the free games as well.
The upswing in sales isn't for base Xbox is Xbox with free games therefore the total cost of those sales is the console plus the cost of the games.
I also believe this means those consoles are effectively being sold at a loss of some kind.
We'll never know unless some insider confirms it though: no way MS will.
Unsustainable because even if they're making enough profit elsewhere to cover it as a company, making a constant loss going forward is going to piss off a lot of the MS shareholders, especially those who are already very vocal about wanting the Xbox division sold off. It gets to a point where the entire division just ends up being a vanity project without a clear end goal beyond selling more than Sony, and that's not exactly a worthwhile exorcise.
I say underhanded and market manipulation because they're simply throwing money at people rather than offering a more desireable product in the first place.
They're selling the hardware they make at a loss and they're giving away free games and free Live subscriptions just in the hopes of selling more than a rival product that up until now has been a far more desirable one to the consumer. And that's not even taking into account the discounted rate they must have offered retailers for the huge volume of stock they're currently flooding the market with, that must be translating to an even greater loss than normal. If they didn't have the rest of MS's big pockets to bail them out it would be financial suicide to conduct business like this, its completely contrary to the way consumerist capitalism is meant to work, and it has no real benefits long term beyond saving face for a month or 2 and maybe, maybe getting enough customers to long term make up the losses in future purchases, but given just how big a loss they must be incurring, and the fact that they seem to be targeting bargain hunters and non-early adopters, I'd be very surprised if that panned out.
Sure, it benefits anyone getting an XO this Christmas because you save a huge amount of money, but in the end MS are just spending an absurd amount of money on the hope of getting some good publicity, and even that's not guaranteed.
Ultimately, they made an inferior, expensive, and ultimately less desirable product. They ruined their public image with blatant anticonsumer behaviour and failed to either right all those wrongs, or adequately express to the public that they'd done so with the policy changes they have made. They've been paying for those mistakes all year with lower than desired sales, and a strong competitor that's performing better. Now they're just buying their way to better sales.
Unsustainable because even if they're making enough profit elsewhere to cover it as a company, making a constant loss going forward is going to piss off a lot of the MS shareholders, especially those who are already very vocal about wanting the Xbox division sold off. It gets to a point where the entire division just ends up being a vanity project without a clear end goal beyond selling more than Sony, and that's not exactly a worthwhile exorcise.
I say underhanded and market manipulation because they're simply throwing money at people rather than offering a more desireable product in the first place.
They're selling the hardware they make at a loss and they're giving away free games and free Live subscriptions just in the hopes of selling more than a rival product that up until now has been a far more desirable one to the consumer. And that's not even taking into account the discounted rate they must have offered retailers for the huge volume of stock they're currently flooding the market with, that must be translating to an even greater loss than normal. If they didn't have the rest of MS's big pockets to bail them out it would be financial suicide to conduct business like this, its completely contrary to the way consumerist capitalism is meant to work, and it has no real benefits long term beyond saving face for a month or 2 and maybe, maybe getting enough customers to long term make up the losses in future purchases, but given just how big a loss they must be incurring, and the fact that they seem to be targeting bargain hunters and non-early adopters, I'd be very surprised if that panned out.
Sure, it benefits anyone getting an XO this Christmas because you save a huge amount of money, but in the end MS are just spending an absurd amount of money on the hope of getting some good publicity, and even that's not guaranteed.
Ultimately, they made an inferior, expensive, and ultimately less desirable product. They ruined their public image with blatant anticonsumer behaviour and failed to either right all those wrongs, or adequately express to the public that they'd done so with the policy changes they have made. They've been paying for those mistakes all year with lower than desired sales, and a strong competitor that's performing better. Now they're just buying their way to better sales.
They made a better console with better games.
Yes, it's way better. So is Xbox live and so are the games. That's why its selling better now.
Unsustainable because even if they're making enough profit elsewhere to cover it as a company, making a constant loss going forward is going to piss off a lot of the MS shareholders, especially those who are already very vocal about wanting the Xbox division sold off. It gets to a point where the entire division just ends up being a vanity project without a clear end goal beyond selling more than Sony, and that's not exactly a worthwhile exorcise.
I say underhanded and market manipulation because they're simply throwing money at people rather than offering a more desireable product in the first place.
They're selling the hardware they make at a loss and they're giving away free games and free Live subscriptions just in the hopes of selling more than a rival product that up until now has been a far more desirable one to the consumer. And that's not even taking into account the discounted rate they must have offered retailers for the huge volume of stock they're currently flooding the market with, that must be translating to an even greater loss than normal. If they didn't have the rest of MS's big pockets to bail them out it would be financial suicide to conduct business like this, its completely contrary to the way consumerist capitalism is meant to work, and it has no real benefits long term beyond saving face for a month or 2 and maybe, maybe getting enough customers to long term make up the losses in future purchases, but given just how big a loss they must be incurring, and the fact that they seem to be targeting bargain hunters and non-early adopters, I'd be very surprised if that panned out.
Sure, it benefits anyone getting an XO this Christmas because you save a huge amount of money, but in the end MS are just spending an absurd amount of money on the hope of getting some good publicity, and even that's not guaranteed.
Ultimately, they made an inferior, expensive, and ultimately less desirable product. They ruined their public image with blatant anticonsumer behaviour and failed to either right all those wrongs, or adequately express to the public that they'd done so with the policy changes they have made. They've been paying for those mistakes all year with lower than desired sales, and a strong competitor that's performing better. Now they're just buying their way to better sales.
Yes, it's way better. So is Xbox live and so are the games. That's why its selling better now.
They made a better console with better games.
Maybe. I mean it would be good to see but as free games will be a marketing deal probably set up with MS paying invoice monthly or whatever I'm not sure they have to record that specific to Xbox division. They may be able to shunt the money spent on deals to a non-Xbox cost centre.We will see in their earnings release for that quarter. Both their hardware and software divisions with Xbox stuff have been profitable for a while now I believe.
Yes, it's way better. So is Xbox live and so are the games. That's why its selling better now.
It's not better on a technical level. Xbox Live and Games are entirely opinion. We have no reference to how it's selling better, just that it is.
So, the only factual information we have, console specs, places the PS4 ahead. That's why it's selling better, and has sold better, since it launched.
don't forget friends and monthly updates!Yes, it's way better. So is Xbox live and so are the games. That's why its selling better now.
no need to quote you again, other than to say excellent post. Well done.*snip*
Unsustainable because even if they're making enough profit elsewhere to cover it as a company, making a constant loss going forward is going to piss off a lot of the MS shareholders, especially those who are already very vocal about wanting the Xbox division sold off. It gets to a point where the entire division just ends up being a vanity project without a clear end goal beyond selling more than Sony, and that's not exactly a worthwhile exorcise.
I say underhanded and market manipulation because they're simply throwing money at people rather than offering a more desireable product in the first place.
They're selling the hardware they make at a loss and they're giving away free games and free Live subscriptions just in the hopes of selling more than a rival product that up until now has been a far more desirable one to the consumer. And that's not even taking into account the discounted rate they must have offered retailers for the huge volume of stock they're currently flooding the market with, that must be translating to an even greater loss than normal. If they didn't have the rest of MS's big pockets to bail them out it would be financial suicide to conduct business like this, its completely contrary to the way consumerist capitalism is meant to work, and it has no real benefits long term beyond saving face for a month or 2 and maybe, maybe getting enough customers to long term make up the losses in future purchases, but given just how big a loss they must be incurring, and the fact that they seem to be targeting bargain hunters and non-early adopters, I'd be very surprised if that panned out.
Sure, it benefits anyone getting an XO this Christmas because you save a huge amount of money, but in the end MS are just spending an absurd amount of money on the hope of getting some good publicity, and even that's not guaranteed.
Ultimately, they made an inferior, expensive, and ultimately less desirable product. They ruined their public image with blatant anticonsumer behaviour and failed to either right all those wrongs, or adequately express to the public that they'd done so with the policy changes they have made. They've been paying for those mistakes all year with lower than desired sales, and a strong competitor that's performing better. Now they're just buying their way to better sales.
Yes its an opinion, I have both and it's my opinion. The whole post I replied to was one big opinion piece I completely disagreed with.
Except, "They made a better console" is a complete fallacy.
Yes its an opinion, I have both and it's my opinion. The whole post I replied to was one big opinion piece I completely disagreed with.
Yes, it's way better [than PS4]
So is Xbox live [better than PSN]
the games [are better than PS4's]
That's why its selling better now.
Except, "They made a better console" is a complete fallacy.
How is it a fallacy? It's not.
His opinion "They made a better console", is a response to "Ultimately, they made an inferior, expensive, and ultimately less desirable product.".
We will see in their earnings release for that quarter. Both their hardware and software divisions with Xbox stuff have been profitable for a while now I believe.
The divisions are profitable, that doesn't mean the Xbox is, since the Xbox stuff is not the only thing in those divisions.
Unsustainable because even if they're making enough profit elsewhere to cover it as a company, making a constant loss going forward is going to piss off a lot of the MS shareholders, especially those who are already very vocal about wanting the Xbox division sold off. It gets to a point where the entire division just ends up being a vanity project without a clear end goal beyond selling more than Sony, and that's not exactly a worthwhile exorcise.
I say underhanded and market manipulation because they're simply throwing money at people rather than offering a more desireable product in the first place.
They're selling the hardware they make at a loss and they're giving away free games and free Live subscriptions just in the hopes of selling more than a rival product that up until now has been a far more desirable one to the consumer. And that's not even taking into account the discounted rate they must have offered retailers for the huge volume of stock they're currently flooding the market with, that must be translating to an even greater loss than normal. If they didn't have the rest of MS's big pockets to bail them out it would be financial suicide to conduct business like this, its completely contrary to the way consumerist capitalism is meant to work, and it has no real benefits long term beyond saving face for a month or 2 and maybe, maybe getting enough customers to long term make up the losses in future purchases, but given just how big a loss they must be incurring, and the fact that they seem to be targeting bargain hunters and non-early adopters, I'd be very surprised if that panned out.
Sure, it benefits anyone getting an XO this Christmas because you save a huge amount of money, but in the end MS are just spending an absurd amount of money on the hope of getting some good publicity, and even that's not guaranteed.
Ultimately, they made an inferior, expensive, and ultimately less desirable product. They ruined their public image with blatant anticonsumer behaviour and failed to either right all those wrongs, or adequately express to the public that they'd done so with the policy changes they have made. They've been paying for those mistakes all year with lower than desired sales, and a strong competitor that's performing better. Now they're just buying their way to better sales.
How is it a fallacy? It's not.
His opinion "They made a better console", is a response to "Ultimately, they made an inferior, expensive, and ultimately less desirable product.".
They are allowed to think a console is better not based on specs I think.The specs, price and sales speak for themselves, but I am particularly focused on "they made a better console", which isn't true. We know what specs the consoles have, we know which console is running multiplatform games to a higher quality. That's no open for interpretation or opinion.
Unsustainable because even if they're making enough profit elsewhere to cover it as a company, making a constant loss going forward is going to piss off a lot of the MS shareholders, especially those who are already very vocal about wanting the Xbox division sold off. It gets to a point where the entire division just ends up being a vanity project without a clear end goal beyond selling more than Sony, and that's not exactly a worthwhile exorcise.
I say underhanded and market manipulation because they're simply throwing money at people rather than offering a more desireable product in the first place.
They're selling the hardware they make at a loss and they're giving away free games and free Live subscriptions just in the hopes of selling more than a rival product that up until now has been a far more desirable one to the consumer. And that's not even taking into account the discounted rate they must have offered retailers for the huge volume of stock they're currently flooding the market with, that must be translating to an even greater loss than normal. If they didn't have the rest of MS's big pockets to bail them out it would be financial suicide to conduct business like this, its completely contrary to the way consumerist capitalism is meant to work, and it has no real benefits long term beyond saving face for a month or 2 and maybe, maybe getting enough customers to long term make up the losses in future purchases, but given just how big a loss they must be incurring, and the fact that they seem to be targeting bargain hunters and non-early adopters, I'd be very surprised if that panned out.
Sure, it benefits anyone getting an XO this Christmas because you save a huge amount of money, but in the end MS are just spending an absurd amount of money on the hope of getting some good publicity, and even that's not guaranteed.
Ultimately, they made an inferior, expensive, and ultimately less desirable product. They ruined their public image with blatant anticonsumer behaviour and failed to either right all those wrongs, or adequately express to the public that they'd done so with the policy changes they have made. They've been paying for those mistakes all year with lower than desired sales, and a strong competitor that's performing better. Now they're just buying their way to better sales.
The specs, price and sales speak for themselves, but I am particularly focused on "they made a better console", which isn't true. We know what specs the consoles have, we know which console is running multiplatform games to a higher quality. That's no open for interpretation or opinion.
They are allowed to think a console is better not based on specs I think.
OkBut you can't use the "that's why is selling better now" to help your "is better console"argument when XBO isn't selling better than PS4.
It all depends on whether a common criteria is in play. Technically this thread is about sales and by that metric his opinion doesn't matterHow is it a fallacy? It's not.
His opinion "They made a better console", is a response to "Ultimately, they made an inferior, expensive, and ultimately less desirable product.".
The specs, price and sales speak for themselves, but I am particularly focused on "they made a better console", which isn't true. We know what specs the consoles have, we know which console is running multiplatform games to a higher quality. That's no open for interpretation or opinion.
A fallacy? No it's an opinion, its better. It looks nicer, has a better OS, quieter, better controller, better games, better apps, better online.