Support NeoGAF

[SolidSnakex]

So he says she laughed at him AFTER he had already shot her once?

The article mentioned that she had a drug addiction, so she was probably high. I can't imagine someone in their right state of mind laughing at someone pointing a gun at them after they'd already been shot.

 

[Dr Stabbingworth]

Reminds me of this pharmacist. You don't get to shoot incapacitated intruders. He goin' to jail.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

WTF??? 17/18 cousins pulling armed heists. WTF??

Armed? Did I miss something?

 

[richiek]

lol @ everyone saying "lock him up".

Reading how this guy executed these kids in cold blood made me sick to my stomach. Lock this fucker up.

 

[AcridMeat]

The dude has experienced several break ins. He was pissed. It doesn't excuse what he did and he will pay the price for it. But I won't feel sorry for the teenagers either though. For his own good he should have used better judgement, same for the teenagers.

Agreed. Feel bad that he's had so many burglaries, but the executions are ruthless. Depending on how the other robberies went he was probably at breaking point.

 

[FStop7]

He then waited a day before asking a neighbor to alert authorities, the document added. Smith showed investigators the bodies, was arrested and has remained jailed since.

He didn't call 911 immediately after having killed two intruders? Fail.

He heard glass breaking around noon Thursday while he was in the basement. It was the latest of several break-ins that he's experienced. Brady started coming down the stairs, and Smith shot him with a rifle by the time he saw the intruder's hips.

Pretty murky if that's really self defense, it sounds like he was waiting to ambush them.

Brady fell down the stairs and was looking up at Smith when the homeowner shot him in the face.

"I want him dead," Smith explained to the investigator for the additional shot.

That's an execution, not self defense.

Smith put Brady's body on a tarp and dragged him to an office workshop.

He didn't call the police and he tampered with a crime scene? Fail.

A few minutes later, Smith heard footsteps above him. As in Brady's case, Kifer too started down the stairs and was shot by Smith by the time he saw her hips, sending her tumbling down the stairs.

If the shooting the first intruder wasn't laying an ambush then this definitely was.

Smith attempted to shoot her again, but his rifle jammed, prompting Kifer to laugh.

Yeah, I'm sure the person he just shot was going to be laughing about things.

Upset, Smith, pulled out a revolver he had on him and shot her "more times than I needed to" in the chest, he said.

Not self defense.

Smith dragged Kifer next to Brady as she gasped for her life. He pressed the revolver's barrel under her chin and pulled the trigger in what he described as a "good, clean finishing shot" that was meant to end her suffering.

More tampering with evidence and not self defense.


Long story short, I don't believe a lot of his story. But even so he's already fucked himself through what he did admit to having done. Guy's a scumbag.

 

[truly101]

lol @ everyone saying "lock him up".

How about firing squad?

 

[DY_nasty]

Waiting a day to turn yourself in for killing two teenagers in your own home isn't some remarkably outrageous thing after what appears to be a psychotic episode.

Dude probably will never be right in the head again...

 

[SugarDaddy]

He shot and wounded thieves that broke into his home.

I am perfectly ok with that.

He then *executed* each of them, and has shown no remorse.

Lock him up.

Pretty much this.

 

[Blair]

Wouldn't have given a shit if he had shot them both dead when he first opened fire. The way he did it though... wow.

 

[FStop7]

BTW the very, very first rule of self defense is if you're involved in a shooting you immediately notify the police. Immediately. Look up articles written by guys like Massad Ayoob, who are widely considered to be experts in self defense, concealed carry, etc. They all say the same thing. This guy violated pretty much every thing you're supposed to do and I doubt any of the experts would touch his case with a 10 foot pole.

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

I wonder if there's been any studies performed to determine the psychological effects of multiple break ins on isolated individuals.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

Wouldn't have given a shit if he had shot them both dead when he first opened fire. The way he did it though... wow.

Pretty much

 

[trineo_feo]

So in America the proper punishment for breaking&entering unarmed is execution??

Holy shit.

 

[The Culture Vulture]

So in America the proper punishment for breaking&entering unarmed is execution??

Holy shit.

No...the shooter is going to jail for most likely the rest of his life.

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2012/11/26/regional/little-falls-shooting-charges/

LITTLE FALLS, Minn. (AP) — A Minnesota man was charged Monday with second-degree murder in the Thanksgiving Day shooting deaths of two teenage cousins he said had broken into his home.

Byron David Smith, 64, of Little Falls, told investigators he shot 17-year-old Nicholas Brady Schaeffel and 18-year-old Haile Kifer as they came downstairs into his basement workshop.

A criminal complaint says Smith told investigators he shot Schaeffel when the teen had partially descended the stairs, then fired again into the teen's face as he lay on the floor looking at him.

"I want him dead," the complaint quoted Smith telling an investigator.

He then described sitting down again in his chair, and in a few minutes, the second teen -- Kifer -- began walking down the steps. Smith said he shot her and she also fell down the stairs. He said he tried to shoot her again, and when his Mini 14 rifle jammed, she laughed at him.

Smith told investigators that made him mad: "If you're trying to shoot somebody and they laugh at you, you go again," he said, according to the complaint.

Smith said he then pulled out a .22-caliber revolver he was wearing and shot Kifer several times in the chest. He fired a final shot under her chin because she was still gasping for air a few minutes later, he said.

Smith called a neighbor the following day, Friday, to ask if the neighbor knew any good lawyers, according to the complaint. He later asked his neighbor to call the police.

Minnesota law allows a homeowner to use deadly force on an intruder if a reasonable person would fear they're in danger of harm. Smith told investigators he was afraid the intruders might have a weapon.

Smith was due to make his first court appearance late Monday morning, and Morrison County Sheriff Michel Wetzel planned to hold a news conference at 1 p.m. to disclose a fuller picture of what happened.

Smith's brother, Bruce Smith, told the Star Tribune of Minneapolis that the incident was the eighth burglary at Byron Smith's home in recent years.

The only report the Morrison County sheriff's office has for a break-in at the home was for one on Oct. 27. It shows Byron Smith reported losing cash and gold coins worth $9,200, plus two guns worth $200 each, photo equipment worth over $3,000 and a ring worth $300. The Little Falls Police Department had no other records of burglaries at the home.

Bruce Smith declined to talk to an Associated Press reporter Monday outside his brother's home in a secluded area north of Little Falls and near the Mississippi River. A makeshift barricade blocked the driveway and a board leaning against it bore the spray-painted words "Keep Out."

Bruce Smith told the Star Tribune on Sunday that the break-ins had left his brother, a former State Department security officer, feeling vulnerable and afraid.

 

[Rockandrollclown]

So in America the proper punishment for breaking&entering unarmed is execution??

Holy shit.

It certainly can be. Risk you take if you break into peoples' homes.

 

[trineo_feo]

It certainly can be. Risk you take if you break into peoples' homes.

That is not how justice works properly. It should never be the victim the one to make that decission...

 

[Count Dookkake]

That is not how justice works properly. It should never be the victim the one to make that decission...

Justice exists in court.

Not in a stranger's basement into which you have entered without consent.

 

[DY_nasty]

That is not how justice works properly. It should never be the victim the one to make that decission...

Justice doesn't show up until after the fact. While you're breaking into someone's home, you're at their mercy entirely.

edit: beaten

 

[.GqueB.]

That is not how justice works properly. It should never be the victim the one to make that decission...

Well the [possible] punishment isn't necessarily "execution" in this way this gentlemen did it. But I do believe that if he had shot and killed them initially he would've been in the clear. Self defense works in that case.

 

[trineo_feo]

Well the [possible] punishment isn't necessarily "execution" in this way this gentlemen did it. But I do believe that if he had shot and killed them initially he would've been in the clear. Self defense works in that case.

But his life was not at risk... Self defense must be proportional.

 

[coldvein]

Well the [possible] punishment isn't necessarily "execution" in this way this gentlemen did it. But I do believe that if he had shot and killed them initially he would've been in the clear. Self defense works in that case.

yeah. if they come in the door and he just shoots them both in the head right away, it's a totally different story.

 

[zyxwvu4321]

But his life was not at risk... Self defense must be proportional.

He didn't know that his life wasn't at risk when he took the first shot at each. You are under no obligation to assume people breaking into your house mean you no harm. This only changed from self-defense to murder when he executed them.

 

[xbhaskarx]

"this was the latest of eight burglaries within the last few years, with the most recent on Oct. 27, when about $10,000 worth of guns, electronic gear and cash were stolen after thieves broke out a panel in a lower-level door."

Eight burglaries, $10,000 worth of property stolen last time.... this story is why you don't break into other people's houses.

Wouldn't have given a shit if he had shot them both dead when he first opened fire. The way he did it though... wow.

Yup, dude lost it and will be going away for a long time.

 

[A.E Suggs]

Home owners: Don't kill people just because they pissed you off. Also, teens: don't break into people's houses ever. Your life isn't worth anything you can steal from a basement.

-A message from NeoGAF

A message from local news stories as well. You'd think that with all the fear mongering that comes from people that break into a house people would actually stop doing it. Guess the same could be said for any crime.

 

[trineo_feo]

He didn't know that his life wasn't at risk when he took the first shot at each. You are under no obligation to assume people breaking into your house mean you no harm. This only changed from self-defense to murder when he executed them.

How is it ok to shot people just if you think you may be in some kind of danger?

I really don't get that, for me it's insane. I mean, do you really think that, without guns, a lot more of innocent people in your country would die? If the answer is yes, then wherever you live is fucked up.

 

[i-Lo]

The part of "good clean shot" makes me wonder if he is used to hunting.

While the shot did end her suffering and he did bring it to its natural conclusion, a part of me is furious precisely because of how cold and calculated that act was. Cognitive dissonance is a bitch.

I am with the rest here who support the notion of locking him up purely based on the evidence that suggests his actions constitutes more than self defence.

 

[Dram]

http://www.startribune.com/local/180853761.html?refer=y

A 64-year-old man was charged Monday with murdering two teenagers who broke into his home on the outskirts of Little Falls, shooting each of them at close range in the head after having already wounded them.

Byron David Smith was charged in Morrison County District Court with two counts of second-degree murder without premeditation in the killings of Nicholas Brady, 17, and his cousin Haile Kifer, 18.

The criminal complaint says that Smith shot the two as they came down his basement stairs several minutes apart on Thanksgiving Day. The complaint adds that he shot them numerous times.

He then waited a day before asking a neighbor to alert authorities about what he had done, the document added. Smith showed investigators the bodies, was arrested and has remained jailed since.

Sheriff Michel Wetzel told reporters Monday afternoon that Smith explained to authorities that he didn't call immediately after killing the two because "it was Thanksgiving. He didn't want to trouble us on a holiday."

As for whether Smith could be justified in shooting intruders, Wetzel said that a citizen does have to right to protect person or property, but it has to be reasonable.

What Smith did "went further than the law. It doesn't permit you to execute once the threat is gone."

According to the complaint, Smith told investigators:

He heard glass breaking around noon Thursday while he was in the basement. It was the latest of several break-ins that he's experienced. Brady started coming down the stairs, and Smith shot him with a rifle by the time he saw the intruder's hips.

Brady fell down the stairs and was looking up at Smith when the homeowner shot him in the face.

"I want him dead," Smith explained to the investigator for the additional shot.

Smith put Brady's body on a tarp and dragged him to an office workshop.

A few minutes later, Smith heard footsteps above him. As in Brady's case, Kifer too started down the stairs and was shot by Smith by the time he saw her hips, sending her tumbling down the stairs.

Smith attempted to shoot her again, but his rifle jammed, prompting Kifer to laugh.

Upset, Smith, pulled out a revolver he had on him and shot her "more times than I needed to" in the chest, he said.

Smith dragged Kifer next to Brady as she gasped for her life. He pressed the revolver's barrel under her chin and pulled the trigger in what he described as a "good, clean finishing shot" that was meant to end her suffering.

Smith acknowledged leaving the bodies in his home overnight before calling a neighbor to ask about a lawyer and to request that authorities be notified.

Tessa Ruth, an aunt of Brady, was at the hearing and said she wished Smith had fired a warning shot or called police instead of shooting. "It wasn't right for them to be there and, yes, he had a right to defend himself. But to execute them like that . . ."

 

[Onion_Relish]

'merica: where at least I know I'm free to execute people

 

[RiccochetJ]

Yup, I would consider that murder.

 

[Zee-Row]

Damn he left the bodies overnight too. That old man is pretty messed up.

 

[Meier]

Jesus, those quotes from him are terrifying. This is not a case of an intruder falling and breaking a hip and then suing or something ridiculous like this. What is described is definitely murder.

 

[prwxv3]

'merica: where at least I know I'm free to execute people

but he's being charged with a crime.

 

[Clydefrog]

dat repost

 

[see5harp]

Jesus. What a mean old man.

 

[KHarvey16]

'merica: where at least I know I'm free to execute people

also reading the OP is encouraged.

Guy certainly deserves the charges being filed.

 

[Ferrio]

Good.

 

[dorkimoe]

Shouldn't have broken into the guys house. You come into someone elses house they should have the right to do ANYTHING they want to you. It's that simple. Could he have just shot them once and then called 911 yes, but its his house

 

[NoLootBoxDev]

he deserves Jail, plain and simple. One thing is when you are in danger, but when a girl is killed like that unable to defend and unable to do anything, he deserves to be on jail.

 

[LQX]

Yikes! That seems kind of fucking cold blooded for killing someone for the first time....unless it is not. Guy sounds like he has killed before.

 

[shadyspace]

"I want him dead," Smith explained to the investigator for the additional shot.

shot her "more times than I needed to" in the chest, he said.

he described as a "good, clean finishing shot" that was meant to end her suffering.

All great things to say to an investigator.

 

[Deified Data]

I'd have no problem with him shooting them. Hell, I'd have no problem with him shooting them and them dying as a result, so long as it was done in the pursuit of self-defense. But executing them once the threat has been removed is going too far.

What we have here is a guy who just couldn't wait to shoot someone. If it weren't these burglars, it would have been someone else.

Shouldn't have broken into the guys house. You come into someone elses house they should have the right to do ANYTHING they want to you. It's that simple. Could he have just shot them once and then called 911 yes, but its his house

Would you be okay if he just started raping the female intruder? Because it's his house, and he can do whatever he wants?

 

[arab]

I'd say manslaughter but that granpa is fucked up

 

[ElRenoRaven]

Yup, I would consider that murder.

Yup same here. His reasoning for not calling police is bullshit too.

he deserves Jail, plain and simple. One thing is when you are in danger, but when a girl is killed like that unable to defend and unable to do anything, he deserves to be on jail.

Exactly. There is a line between self-defense and murder. He crossed it without a doubt.

 

[Charles Foster Kane]

That is sickening. Specially the revolver part. I hope they never let him out.

 

[Jacob]

Shouldn't have broken into the guys house. You come into someone elses house they should have the right to do ANYTHING they want to you. It's that simple. Could he have just shot them once and then called 911 yes, but its his house

lol no

Fortunately the law also disagrees with you.

 

[Des0lar]

Shouldn't have broken into the guys house. You come into someone elses house they should have the right to do ANYTHING they want to you. It's that simple. Could he have just shot them once and then called 911 yes, but its his house

No.
What if I am being followed by the mafia and have to find shelter?

 

[SpectreFire]

Jesus fuck. That guy deserves to be locked up forever.

 

[Devolution]

Shouldn't have broken into the guys house. You come into someone elses house they should have the right to do ANYTHING they want to you. It's that simple. Could he have just shot them once and then called 911 yes, but its his house

Uh how about no.

 

[Onion_Relish]

but he's being charged with a crime.

I'm aware if that, I read the op. The reason I made the comment is because america is the only county on earth that has people who think this is a valid way to resolve a situation. You know what we do in Canada? Call the police. Or if you're feeling really brave, get a bat.