dr_rus
Member
I wonder how those DX12 only games are running on that Win7 of yours...
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Mirror's Edge: Catalyst PC specs revealed (min:i3-3250/Win7 64bit/650 Ti/6GB Ram)
- Thread starter giant_frying_pan
- Start date
I wonder how those DX12 only games are running on that Win7 of yours...
Which DX12 only games? Can you list them all? All 0 of them?
While you are at it, please, show me these massive performance gains that the glorious DX12 brought to the table.
Can you finally enable VXAO in Tomb Raider uner DX12, or is it still only available in DX11?
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2016/03/28/rise_tomb_raider_dx11_vs_dx12_review/7#.VyCmGnV96wU
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2016/04/17/hitman_2016_performance_video_card_review/4#.VyCl63V96wU
Whoah, DX12 rocks! Installing Win10 NOW!
While you are at it, please, show me these massive performance gains that the glorious DX12 brought to the table.
Can you finally enable VXAO in Tomb Raider uner DX12, or is it still only available in DX11?
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2016/03/28/rise_tomb_raider_dx11_vs_dx12_review/7#.VyCmGnV96wU
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2016/04/17/hitman_2016_performance_video_card_review/4#.VyCl63V96wU
Whoah, DX12 rocks! Installing Win10 NOW!
Yep, reading all those "Win7 is shit, DICE is fully excused that their games runs absolutely shit on it, upgrade to Win10 or GTFO" almost gave me cancer.
This beta was so unbelievably fucked up on Win7 - I had constant drops below 60fps (99% GPU usage) after I set the resolution to 900p and lowered settings to high - and that was on a 980Ti OC'ed to 1450MHz when boosting and i7 6700K. Absolutely inexcusable shitstain of performance.
This beta was so unbelievably fucked up on Win7 - I had constant drops below 60fps (99% GPU usage) after I set the resolution to 900p and lowered settings to high - and that was on a 980Ti OC'ed to 1450MHz when boosting and i7 6700K. Absolutely inexcusable shitstain of performance.
NeoRaider
Member
I will tell you, both Xbox One ports and one remaster are running like crap, no matter what.
Also i can't believe what i am reading here. Ppl with W7 (me included) should be happy with this shitty performance compared to W8 and W10, and we shouldn't complain? Since when different Windows gives 15+ fps more?
hooijdonk17
Member
My PC am cry.. Need a 2GB GPU.. Polaris 11 can't come soon enough..
GavinUK86
Member
Nah I agree with ya mate. I'm on Windows 7 still, 10 is shit, and I was getting the same performance as you, with a 970 and 16gb RAM.
Hopefully it's fixed for launch, it probably will be. If not then I'll install 10 on another drive just to play Mirror's Edge, like I did with Quantum Break, then switch back to 7 for everything else.
Good job the OS is free.
dr_rus
Member
Another beta benchmark: http://pclab.pl/art69428.html
Seems pretty consistent with GameGPU's.
All two of them at the moment.
They're not running on Win7 at all and this was expected.
Win7 is out of support phase and I expect it to disappear from minimum requirements of games by the end of the year. It's a shitty practice on MS's part to tie DX updates to newer Windows versions, sure, but that's how it works - games will require newer APIs and these won't be available on Win7. FB3 engine goes around this at the moment via a slower rendering path on Win7 but at some point they'll just say "fuck it" and will require Win10 even for a DX11 renderer as DX11 in Win10 does actually contain all new features of DX12 as well.
If you think that new games will always support Win7 you're living in some world which never existed as games always moved to a newer Windows versions with time. The best you can do in this situation is take advantage of the free upgrade offer and get Win10 without paying anything for it.
BF4, DAI, BFH wasn't, why would MEC be any different? There isn't much to "fix" here beyond making the DX11+ renderer slower or switching to Vulkan API for rendering as things which make FB3 work faster in Win8+ simply don't exist in Win7.
Seems pretty consistent with GameGPU's.
All two of them at the moment.
They're not running on Win7 at all and this was expected.
Win7 is out of support phase and I expect it to disappear from minimum requirements of games by the end of the year. It's a shitty practice on MS's part to tie DX updates to newer Windows versions, sure, but that's how it works - games will require newer APIs and these won't be available on Win7. FB3 engine goes around this at the moment via a slower rendering path on Win7 but at some point they'll just say "fuck it" and will require Win10 even for a DX11 renderer as DX11 in Win10 does actually contain all new features of DX12 as well.
If you think that new games will always support Win7 you're living in some world which never existed as games always moved to a newer Windows versions with time. The best you can do in this situation is take advantage of the free upgrade offer and get Win10 without paying anything for it.
BF4, DAI, BFH wasn't, why would MEC be any different? There isn't much to "fix" here beyond making the DX11+ renderer slower or switching to Vulkan API for rendering as things which make FB3 work faster in Win8+ simply don't exist in Win7.
Both DX12 only games run like shit are are piss-poor ports from Xbox One. The only reason they are DX12 only is Microsoft trying to shove Win10 down everybody's throat. There is absolutely no reason for those two games to not support DX11 - ironically, they would probably run better in DX11, as evidenced by benchmarks of Hitman and Rise of the Tomb Raider that I linked to earlier.
I understand that Win10 is the future and there is no escape from it, it's a fact, whether I like it or nor (I don't). I even have Win10 installed because I bought Quantum Break (which is currently unplayable anyway). I don't expect the devs to support Win7 forever, it will have to go, just like WinXP few years back. I am not some kind of crazy Win7 lover.
However, the performance difference in ME beta between Win7 and Win10 is HUGE - on Win10 the framerate is over two times higher! It cannot be explained by DX11.1+ alone.
If it was, it would mean that Win10 offers free 100% performance boost, and it's impossible.
"BF4, DAI, BFH wasn't, why would MEC be any different? "
Because the performance difference in those games is 10-20%, and in MEC its 100%.
Seriously, do you really think it's OK for a game with this level of graphics to be unable to sustain 60fps at 900p on high settings on a freaking 980Ti and i7 6700K?
If it's Win7's fault, then why isn't Division running so poorly on Win7 compared to Win10?
I understand that Win10 is the future and there is no escape from it, it's a fact, whether I like it or nor (I don't). I even have Win10 installed because I bought Quantum Break (which is currently unplayable anyway). I don't expect the devs to support Win7 forever, it will have to go, just like WinXP few years back. I am not some kind of crazy Win7 lover.
However, the performance difference in ME beta between Win7 and Win10 is HUGE - on Win10 the framerate is over two times higher! It cannot be explained by DX11.1+ alone.
If it was, it would mean that Win10 offers free 100% performance boost, and it's impossible.
"BF4, DAI, BFH wasn't, why would MEC be any different? "
Because the performance difference in those games is 10-20%, and in MEC its 100%.
Seriously, do you really think it's OK for a game with this level of graphics to be unable to sustain 60fps at 900p on high settings on a freaking 980Ti and i7 6700K?
If it's Win7's fault, then why isn't Division running so poorly on Win7 compared to Win10?
GavinUK86
Member
Not sure what you're talking about because those games didn't need a "fix". They ran fine on Windows 7, I can tell you that from first hand experience. So hopefully MEC is sorted out for release.
NeoRaider
Member
Spill that tea.
dr_rus
Member
Last time I checked The Division wasn't running on FB3 engine. If they'd actually used something above DX11 in their renderer they would probably be faster in Win10 as well.
As for if it's ok or not - I have no idea. I just want to point out that the DX11+ mode could've gotten even faster while DX11 mode stayed where it was as they can't or don't want to make it faster. So there's nothing technically impossible here - a more efficient code for newer APIs can perform a lot faster than the old one, for older APIs. Meaning that this situation isn't necessarily something which should be "fixed".
Here's an example: getting the same graphics quality in DX8 or DX9 would probably render the game completely unplayable even on several top end modern GPUs. Why is it so hard to see that DX11+ may actually allow for lot of thing to be a great deal faster than on the base DX11 which available in Win7? It's not something which hasn't happened before either.
I'd agree with you, but the performance increases twofold (or drops by half). In my opinion such order of magnitude is not possible, so I treat the performance of ME:C on Win7 as a bug.
If more games start to exhibit such huge disparity in performance then I'll admit that you were most probably right.
Performance of MEC beta on Win7 is simply unacceptable - 60fps is unachievable on 980Ti in a game which is aiming for 60fps on consoles! If the final game was to work like that, It would be better to drop the Win7 support completely than to make a half assed version which only angers customers.
If more games start to exhibit such huge disparity in performance then I'll admit that you were most probably right.
Performance of MEC beta on Win7 is simply unacceptable - 60fps is unachievable on 980Ti in a game which is aiming for 60fps on consoles! If the final game was to work like that, It would be better to drop the Win7 support completely than to make a half assed version which only angers customers.
NeoRaider
Member
It's the developer and/or engine or it might be a bug in beta. It doesn't have anything to do with W10 being "better" than W7 for games, there is no such thing on same hardware and same software. Catalyst is DX11 game, running in DX11 so it doesn't have any benefits from DX12 or W10 because other than DX12 there are no other benefits in W10.
Sure there can be some difference, but not 14-15 fps or more.
http://www.pcgamer.com/windows-10-but-what-about-performance/
http://www.techspot.com/review/1042-windows-10-vs-windows-8-vs-windows-7/page6.html
dr_rus
Member
Well, we'll see how it will perform on release but it may well be that there's nothing to "fix" and the performance difference will remain and if that's because of Win7's lack of new APIs then it's not DICE's fault that DX11+ isn't available on Win7.
mugurumakensei
Member
That's not explicitly true. Certain DX11 feature levels are Windows 8 and 10 only. Windows 7 does not even have all of 11_1 features let alone 11_2 and 11_3. Some of those features like Tiled rendering offer massive performance increases in Maxwell.
QuantumSquid
Member
We get it. You don't like Windows 10.
Is it okay for the game to run this poorly on Windows 7? No. But it's a beta. I don't understand the point in flipping out about this. If it's this bad at launch, I'll be right there with you, but this is unfinished code. Chill out and wait for the final version, if it has these problems then you'll have something to complain about.
NeoRaider
Member
Give me some examples please. Name few games that offer massive performance increase on 8.1 compared to 7.
What's not to like? http://betanews.com/2016/04/27/windows-10-interrupts-live-tv-broadcast/
I'm not a fan, no. DX12 has been a huge dissapointment so far, and don't even get me started on UWP. But I'm not boycotting it, I have Win10 installed on a second partition, for quantum break and other "exclusives" worth playing. When DX12 really starts to give tangible benefits (Mankind Divided, hopefully), then I'll switch without batting an eye.
Then we are in agreement.
You're right, no point in getting aggravated over beta. I might have overreacted, but that was in response to those claiming that this performance difference is to be expected and not DICE's fault, but of Win7's outdatedness.
I am still convinced that in the full version of the game the difference will not be as big. Did we even get GameReady driver for the beta?
Except the fact that every single multiplat I've played so far has run consistently better on my rig than on consoles. I hope it's just beta jank.
Maybe you were GPU bound in those cases. Heavily CPU limited games might not run much better on those cores of yours.
Even in games that do push my CPU to its limit, like Rise of the Tomb Raider, I do get performance that's above what the consoles can do, especially in the DX12 mode. Of course, I'm not expecting an old cheap CPU with a woefully low IPC to work wonders, but it's done me good so far 
. I hope they do implement DX12 in the game later however, it'll help with the CPU bottleneck, Mantle in BF4 runs like a charm, even on Ultra, but yeah, that's an older title and not exactly open world.
That said, an upgrade is most likely needed this year, I hope I get a job soon so I can afford it :lol.
Since you ask. 12gB RAM, FX6300 OC'd to 3.8 Ghz (should match the 6350 in that case) and a 3gB R9 280X. I'm currently saving for a better cooler so I can OC it to the 4.5 range, it can handle it but it gets hot too quick with the current cooler setup, but by that point it'll be OC'd by 1Ghz since stock is 3.5.
. I hope they do implement DX12 in the game later however, it'll help with the CPU bottleneck, Mantle in BF4 runs like a charm, even on Ultra, but yeah, that's an older title and not exactly open world.That said, an upgrade is most likely needed this year, I hope I get a job soon so I can afford it :lol.
Since you ask. 12gB RAM, FX6300 OC'd to 3.8 Ghz (should match the 6350 in that case) and a 3gB R9 280X. I'm currently saving for a better cooler so I can OC it to the 4.5 range, it can handle it but it gets hot too quick with the current cooler setup, but by that point it'll be OC'd by 1Ghz since stock is 3.5.
To be fair, those benchmarks use only one card and the performance differences between DX12 and DX11 can vary quite a bit depening on the hardware. I have no idea how big the difference is on average, so there's a good chance that DX11 still provides better performance on average in those two games but the graphs you posted are still not exactly adequate support for your argument (though, again, I'm not saying that your argument is necessarily wrong).
Sorry, I must've missed it. Hopefully the full version will run better on your hardware (and on Win7
Yeah, it's not finished code, so I'm sure everyone will see a decent performance boost once the game is finished
, not every beta can run as smooth as Battlefront, I suppose, apart from the occasional hickup and the slowdown near the center of the Hoth map, it ran smooth as hell.I really hope I am wrong. I want to be wrong. If there are reliable benchmarks proving that DX12 is faster than DX11 then I will gladly admit my mistake.
My personal experience with both Mantle and DX12 is that they do run better, Mantle makes me able to run BF4 on Ultra without issue, hell I only had minor dips into the high 40s with 4x MSAA turned on by accident :lol. Rise of the Tomb Raider is much much smoother as well with way fewer fps drops and it completely removed stuttering in the game for me as well.
Hardly a benchmark, but hey. I'm sure DX12 will get better as engines become better suited to utilize its strengths.
DarkoMaledictus
Tier Whore
16... interesting, guess it wasn't a bad idea to future proof with 64...
Ashes is a good example.
Speaking of which, did Nvidia get their drivers working properly with DX12 yet? Or is there just an inherent flaw in the design of the chips?
Not sure, seems like Nvidia cards still lose 2-3 frames DX12 vs DX11 in GPU bound scenarios. I'll take that as long as mins are higher and I'm no longer CPU limited.
ROTTR dx12 is great for me.
In DX12 ? No. DX11 only at the moment.