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[grandjedi6]

How could this possibly have been a surprise? I really don't get it.

Its not. The real reasons are probably varied and include everything from diverting resources to saving the 3DS to underestimating 3rd party support. But those reasons are complex and difficult to explain to shareholders and the press in a few sentences (at least with how Nintendo prefers to interact with them). But blaming HD development is simple, to the point, and sorta a "get out of jail" free card since everyone else has already legitimized the problem. I'm sure HD development has caused problems but Nintendo is surely exaggerating it as a PR move/excuse.

 

[Pociask]

They seem to have underestimated HD development greatly.

That's bullshit, they've been hiring a lot since 2009 IIRC, but the one thing was that it wasn't enough. They underestimated how much they needed to expand.

If they didn't hire enough, then they have not been hiring a lot. If they are worried about making sure every employee learns the Nintendo way, they should have hired a lot more, and started hiring a lot earlier. Hiring and training employees to meet future challenges is one of management's most important jobs. I don't understand how Nintendo's survives this gigantic, console-killing mistake.

 

[Dark Octave]

Welcome to 2006, Nintendo.

LOL!

Everybody at Nintendo is in shock.

They really need to go third party. They've lost it. Good run though.

 

[w1gglyjones]

Awesome thanks dude...
The Nintendo Web Framework is a development environment based on WebKit technologies, supporting application development on the Wii U system using HTML5, JavaScript, and CSS.
Lol well that's not going to make games, Nintendo d00med :O.

They actually showed off the web framework at GDC by showing a browser game that looked like a 16-bit smash bros.

 

[toastyToast]

Working on the 3DS?

While that is probably the case, leaving the home console which doesn't exist in an environment without competition (sorry Vita) high and dry sounds like a horrible case of mismanagement. They chose the wrong line of product to rest their laurels on. The Wii was undoubtedly a fluke.

 

[gogogow]

LOL!

Everybody at Nintendo is in shock.

They really need to go third party. They've lost it. Good run though.

You are right. Nintendo needs to go third party. They will then magically create Avatar looking games for the PS4/Xbone in no time!

LOL!

 

[pottuvoi]

I chuckled. Heh.

+1

Well, it was certainly worked as a nice example how to not write a presentation and what the results might be..

 

[DaBoss]

If they didn't hire enough, then they have not been hiring a lot. If they are worried about making sure every employee learns the Nintendo way, they should have hired a lot more, and started hiring a lot earlier. Hiring and training employees to meet future challenges is one of management's most important jobs. I don't understand how Nintendo's survives this gigantic, console-killing mistake.

Hiring enough and hiring a lot are mutually exclusive. 2009 is early. What they didn't expect is the amount they needed to hire.

Some of the posts here seem to indicate they haven't done any hiring in preparation for HD development.

 

[d[-_-]b]

They actually showed off the web framework at GDC by showing a browser game that looked like a 16-bit smash bros.

I figured thats the type of games they were talking about , Farmville etc, trying to entice mobile/html5 developers for the eShop...

 

[Tripon]

If they didn't hire enough, then they have not been hiring a lot. If they are worried about making sure every employee learns the Nintendo way, they should have hired a lot more, and started hiring a lot earlier. Hiring and training employees to meet future challenges is one of management's most important jobs. I don't understand how Nintendo's survives this gigantic, console-killing mistake.

Oh come on, that's a bit hyperbolic isn't it?

 

[RazzleDazzleRB]

I don't get this whole "zOMG HD graphics, it takes too long" blah blah from Nintendo. I'm not buying this. I mean it is basically a Wii at a higher resolution. It makes them sound like they are whining and making excuses, or completely clueless.

 

[wsippel]

I think this is the more interesting part of the post. Has this been mentioned before?

It's not so much for games (even though it can obviously be used for those as well - there are quite a few HTML5 games after all), but primarily for services like Netflix, Google Street View or that food delivery thing they just announced for Japan. All that stuff uses Web Framework as far as I know. From what I can tell, it's comparable to Adobe Edge or Intel XDK.

 

[grandjedi6]

While that is probably the case, leaving the home console which doesn't exist in an environment without competition (sorry Vita) high and dry sounds like a horrible case of mismanagement. They chose the wrong line of product to rest their laurels on. The Wii was undoubtedly a fluke.

Nintendo's handheld market is vastly more important to them than their home console market. Its understandable that they freaked and diverted development to it hastily.

 

[Danielsan]

Perhaps they should have attended some game developer conferences, or I don't know, talked to some third parties in the past 7 years.

 

[gogogow]

I don't get this whole "zOMG HD graphics, it takes too long" blah blah from Nintendo. I'm not buying this. I mean it is basically a Wii at a higher resolution. It makes them sound like they are whining and making excuses, or completely clueless.

Yeah, I don't get it either, I mean, the PS3 and 360 were just the PS2 in HD. Oh wait!

 

[Duxxy3]

Welcome to the real world.

 

[Yado]

While that is probably the case, leaving the home console which doesn't exist in an environment without competition (sorry Vita) high and dry sounds like a horrible case of mismanagement. They chose the wrong line of product to rest their laurels on. The Wii was undoubtedly a fluke.

I think they focused on what was needed at the time. It wouldn't have worked out well if they had ignored the struggling 3DS to focus on the upcoming Wii U.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

This was a valid excuse in 2006. In 2013? No way, just poor management.

 

[cyberheater]

Nintendo Web Framework

So how does that help? From the website:-

The Nintendo Web Framework is a development environment based on WebKit technologies, supporting application development on the Wii U system using HTML5, JavaScript, and CSS. It also supports the Wii U GamePad controller, Wii Remote controllers, and JavaScript extensions such as video playback. With the Nintendo Web Framework, development times will be reduced and Wii U applications can be easily developed using common Web technologies. Combining the handy Wii U GamePad, the TV screen, and the Internet, the potential exists for the services and games you are developing to progress by leaps and bounds.

So web based games on WiiU. Sounds like a good recipe for endless shovelware.

 

[dcx4610]

"Please understand" pretty much sums up Nintendo these days. It's sad to see what they have become. Another piece of childhood dying.

 

[cyberheater]

I think they focused on what was needed at the time. It wouldn't have worked out well if they had ignored the struggling 3DS to focus on the upcoming Wii U.

Or alternatively. When they started to work on WiiU. They could have set up more internal development teams and started to farm out the work to good third parties with a proven track record.
There is no excuse for the lack of good software on WiiU apart from bad management.

 

[gogogow]

So how does that help? From the website:-



So web based games on WiiU. Sounds like a good recipe for endless shovelware.

So you already know the games using NWF will all be crap? Or it doesn't have HD graphics so it's crap by default? Which one is it?

 

[roddur]

the wii success really loosened a lot of screws in their heads.

 

[upandaway]

I'm not really keeping up with Nintendo's excuses at this point. After they did nothing for 3 out of 5 years of the Wii's time in the market (and the Wii didn't require more human resources, if anything less, and it gave them the money to expand on top of it), then had the Wii U drought, making excuses seems a bit redundant. They did something wrong, clearly!

 

[Dr.Thunder]

Well at least Nintendo acknowledges the problem public instead of spoon feeding us bs like most other companies in a similar position would do. Of course that doesn't fix the problem but a little honesty from a developer is extremely appreciated these days.

 

[Kai Dracon]

Its not. The real reasons are probably varied and include everything from diverting resources to saving the 3DS to underestimating 3rd party support. But those reasons are complex and difficult to explain to shareholders and the press in a few sentences (at least with how Nintendo prefers to interact with them). But blaming HD development is simple, to the point, and sorta a "get out of jail" free card since everyone else has already legitimized the problem. I'm sure HD development has caused problems but Nintendo is surely exaggerating it as a PR move/excuse.

I'd go with this. Everything we know points to multiple delays in more than just game software development (such as hardware finalization, development kits, dev tools, operating system and online infrastructure).

"HD is hard" is not a lie but it's a good soundbite for the media.

Plus saving the 3DS absolutely had to have an impact. So many people seem to ignore the fact that Nintendo is supporting two platforms and that they develop a hell of a lot of games at the same time. It seems the push-pull that must be causing between platforms should be one of the reasons they've been expanding so much in the last couple of years. Unfortunately they're running to play catch up now.

 

[Bisnic]

Geez Nintendo, you had like... 7-8 years to learn from your competitors. What the hell did you do during the last 2 years of the Wii where there was almost nothing from you? Spending all the money that you made with the DS and Wii on vacations?

 

[thehypocrite]

No shocking news title? GAF must be slacking!!

 

[BatDan]

LOL!

Everybody at Nintendo is in shock.

They really need to go third party. They've lost it. Good run though.

Every time someone says Nintendo should go third party, a Wino is killed.

 

[Tookay]

I don't get this whole "zOMG HD graphics, it takes too long" blah blah from Nintendo. I'm not buying this. I mean it is basically a Wii at a higher resolution. It makes them sound like they are whining and making excuses, or completely clueless.

Did you not hear the death cries of a couple dozen third-parties this generation?

Spoiler

Nintendo should have listened a little more too.

 

[LAA]

This is just both sad and bad for Nintendo, though I could see this was the case anyway.
I dont think Super Mario 3D Land or Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze both dont look as good as they can, merely a little sharper than Wii versions, was hoping for much better.
As for DK, I remember in an interview where they were acting like adding "fur" to DK to be a big deal, I seriously would have EXPECTED that to be in a HD version of DK, so yeah Nintendo really need to buck up their ideas.

However, Mario Kart 8 and SSB both look great! SSB could be a little better I suppose, but MK8 looks very very good, makes the gap between Wii U + PS4/One seem lesser than I would have expected.

 

[Oppo]

The Nintendo Web Framework is a development environment based on WebKit technologies, supporting application development on the Wii U system using HTML5, JavaScript, and CSS. It also supports the Wii U GamePad controller, Wii Remote controllers, and JavaScript extensions such as video playback. With the Nintendo Web Framework, development times will be reduced and Wii U applications can be easily developed using common Web technologies. Combining the handy Wii U GamePad, the TV screen, and the Internet, the potential exists for the services and games you are developing to progress by leaps and bounds.

It's kind of funny how close this is to the original iPhone Web App system.

You know, the one developers revolted against, and demanded a real native app framework and tools in its place.

But hey, if you can run Bastion on Chrome, I guess it's a good thing.

 

[SolidSnakex]

This was a valid excuse in 2006. In 2013? No way, just poor management.

Yeah, like I said in the other thread, every major developer got caught off guard by how difficult making HD games turned out to be. But they at least had the excuse of not really knowing what they were getting themselves into. Nintendo has years of warning of what they were about to face, and now they're basically admitting that they did very little to prepare for it.

But it's not Nintendo as a whole because there's an old interview with Monolith where they mentioned that they were preparing. And it shows since X is the best looking game on the console.

 

[VanWinkle]

It blows my mind that they remained so clueless as to how things work in the HD age throughout this whole generation.

 

[Spieler Eins]

Well at least Nintendo acknowledges the problem public instead of spoon feeding us bs like most other companies in a similar position would do. Of course that doesn't fix the problem but a little honesty from a developer is extremely appreciated these days.

This was the case a couple of years ago. But considering all Iwata does is apologizing and then just repeat the same mistakes since 2 years doesn't feel so honorable anymore. Just pathetic.

 

[jmls1121]

Its not. The real reasons are probably varied and include everything from diverting resources to saving the 3DS to underestimating 3rd party support. But those reasons are complex and difficult to explain to shareholders and the press in a few sentences (at least with how Nintendo prefers to interact with them). But blaming HD development is simple, to the point, and sorta a "get out of jail" free card since everyone else has already legitimized the problem. I'm sure HD development has caused problems but Nintendo is surely exaggerating it as a PR move/excuse.

This is a very smart post

 

[cyberheater]

So you already know the games using NWF will all be crap?

A prediction considering that Wii was by far the shite shovelware king.

Or it doesn't have HD graphics so it's crap by default? Which one is it?

Who mentioned HD graphics?

 

[foxtrot3d]

Please allow me to explain...

Please understand....

 

[roddur]

It blows my mind that they remained so clueless as to how things work in the HD age throughout this whole generation.

there's no word to describe for being this kind of clueless.

 

[Diablos54]

A prediction considering that Wii was by far the shite shovelware king.

Just like every system which sells the most during it's generation...

 

[Dark Octave]

You are right. Nintendo needs to go third party. They will then magically create Avatar looking games for the PS4/Xbone in no time!

LOL!

Instead of constantly being a generation behind and relying on gimmicks alone, just get on PS4/XB1 and break yourself into modern development. No more shock or surprise and you open yourself up to a bigger fan base.

LOL!

 

[watershed]

It's funny how before some people thought Nintendo would be better prepared for HD development because they had time to watch the other 2 do it first and time to plan more carefully, Instead they are struggling in a major way.

 

[mdtauk]

Nintendo are not competing with these high end game developers. Nintendo own the small independent toy shop, who have a small workshop at the back of the store, crafting bespoke games for people to buy.

 

[gogogow]

A prediction considering that Wii was by far the shite shovelware king.

Who mentioned HD graphics?

I said "or", might be a reason for you, who knows, just asking.

And who said anything about third parties? In the OP it says that Nintendo will be using NWF too to create games. Or does your prediction includes all Nintendo games too?

 

[Kai Dracon]

It's odd that everyone asking how they could have been doing "nothing" during the last two years of the Wii's cooldown life seems to forget they had to develop and deploy the 3DS and begin developing software for it as well.

Issues like this are in fact one of the foundations of suggestions for Nintendo to go with a fusion platform that combines console and portable, to avoid spreading their resources too thin.

And it seems that is a problem for any company, not just Nintendo. Sony, for example, sure has had an easy time pushing the Vita and showering it with content at the same time they've had to support PS3, prepare for PS4, etc... right?

Nintendo are not competing with these high end game developers. Nintendo own the small independent toy shop, who have a small workshop at the back of the store, crafting bespoke games for people to buy.

The problem is the gaming public doesn't really understand or care about this. There are no practical realities, only cries about excuses when the glory doesn't shower down.

 

[Neo C.]

Obviously they didn't use the time between 2009-2011 to the fullest, but that's how this industry is: a tough place where only the smartest companies get the chance to make money.

 

[AmyS]

It's becoming ever more clear that Wii U will probably struggle through its entire lifecycle, barring a major turn around by no later than 2014.

Nintendo will hit the ground running with HD game development on their 7th console which I assume will hit in 2017, or 2018 at the latest.

I'd love to see them come up with a console that has twice the GPU performance of PS4 - 16-32 GB DDR4 + 128 MB eDRAM. Go to an x86 CPU arch but one more robust than Jaguar. By PC standards it wouldn't even be concidered low-end, but good enough for Nintendo's strategies. Wii U is a step up in tech from 360/PS3 in many ways, however it is also, at the same time, a step back. Between the 360, PS3 and Wii U, they all have various strengths and weaknesses compared to each other. It is not unlike the PS2, Xbox and GameCube/Wii.

Ditch motion controls & GamePad, as well as compatibility with Wii / Wii U. Ditch the Wii brand altogether. Start fresh again.


I'm not about Nintendo is doooomed or going 3rd party shit, however I'd think they have probably 2 more consoles in them beyond Wii U before they start to think about things.

 

[JordanLMiller]

It blows my mind that they remained so clueless as to how things work in the HD age throughout this whole generation.

It's pretty weird. Did they just think every other company was just kidding about going through HD growing pains?

 

[Green Yoshi]

I asked this question one year ago: "Can Nintendo HD?" The anwser seems to be no.
Perhaps they should license the CryEngine 2 if they can't get it right.

 

[kuroshiki]

I think it is pretty clear now that there is a little chance that WiiU will take off. Nintendo should just concentrate on 3DS.