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[M_A_C]

No, the contrast is just different. There's no difference in texture quality or anything else.

I didn't say there was. What I said was almost exactly what DF said.

 

[Kezen]

I'm "playing while the game is downloading" (first game that does this) and so far it's 60fps locked at 1080p.
No performance issues, but blacks are definitely crushed. No bugs or crashes....yet.

GTX 970 - factory settings
I7 4770K - stock clocks
8gb of RAM
Windows 8.1
Nvidia WHQL 350.12

 

[ACH1LL3US]

Given your post, and the massive variability in PC hardware and controller preferences, I don't think the blanket statement in the DF quote I just posted is appropriate. That said, a lot of people just won't have the grunt for the PC port of MKX. It sounds like a much more demanding game than its predecessor.

Totally understandable, it is not reasonable to expect someone to pay 500 plus to run this well at 4k etc.

From what I am seeing it is fantastic port to the pc. I am surenit will get better too

 

[shinobi602]

Revenge of 1080pr

 

[Green Yoshi]

I hope that High Voltage won't mess up the 360/PS3-version.

 

[Ghazi]

I hope that High Voltage won't mess up the 360/PS3-version.

lol, they seemingly screwed up the pc version, which was likely much easier to make than a 360/PS3 port.

Should've just hired bluepoint.

 

[Skux]

30fps cutscenes with black crush on PC? How the hell does this happen?

 

[ACH1LL3US]

Fixed the issue with black crush on MK X on the pc!

Go to options then videi options, change brightess to 50 ( they have it set to 35 ) and gamma to 50 ( they have it at 45 ) thisnwill not add or subtract from the picture and it will be perfect!

The contrast is set to 50 already, 50 is the mid point or nuetral.point of these options. They really should have done this from the default and let people crush their blacks if they really wanted to.

Game.looks soo much better now, I can see all of the detail now

I guess they were trying to go for the xbox one look of over saturated colors and black crush... ugh

 

[Deleted member 325805]

I'm buying a PS4 this year, it's by far the best console and I won't have to deal with PC port bullshit anymore. MKX online is unplayable on PC and it's just depressing.

 

[synce]

Shouldn't have hired the high voltage people. Anyway it will probably get patched. And when you introduce mods into the mix there's not even a comparison to be made

 

[thelastword]

You're wrong about this by the way (the pixel counting). Completely wrong.

Stop making this a competition. You're actively discrediting people and making assumptions about things you know nothing about. Why treat people like this? I don't get it. Console wars aren't worth it.

You see this is the type of answer I can't trust, you say I'm completely wrong but you refuse to give any evidence on the contrary. It's a typical DF answer, "the game is cpu bound, that's why Unity is dropping more frames on PS4, "the game is cpu bound that's why the there's slowdown during cross-sections in GTA4", "1886 does not use 4xMSAA", "per object motion blur and FXAA in PC", in essence, authoritative statements without proof. This is not how the world works, this not how objectivity works, I can't take your word for it just because you(DF) say so, I need you to prove what you're saying.

This is where NX gamer edges you guys out because he does not sit on his horse and make blanket statements where he expects his subjects to just gobble, he shows/pinpoints and qualify every statement he makes in the form of "hey, check these shadows in the corner"..... Corroborative evidence in any objective or would-be objective statement is key. I'm sorry I don't take DF's word for it anymore because they've been wrong way too many times.

I said all this to get to a simple question, who is the guy doing the framecounting on DF's stafflist? please give me a name so I can corroborate/confirm for myself. My statement is based on these however;

And 1080p? True 1080p? Well yes. And no. OK, most of the time, it is. I mean look at these shots... scrutinised and measured by the ever-reliable 'Quaz51' who cast his expert eye over a number of Digital Foundry TrueHD 1080p captures:

link

Access to these assets opened the door to techniques like pixel-counting - a form of analysis first discussed on the Beyond 3D forum. Here, long horizontal and vertical edges are isolated and analysed, with the ratio of rendered pixels compared to actual screen pixels, giving us the dimensions of the final framebuffer before it is scaled to 720p and dispatched via HDMI to the display. We could tell from screenshots that the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 versions of GTA4 ran at different resolutions - native 720p (with 2x MSAA) on the Microsoft console and an upscaled 1152x640 on PS3, with a blur filter in effect.

Pixel counting is an example of how a proven methodology could provide actual metrics to better inform our articles. However, beyond that, our understanding of how games worked was still very much in its infancy and we wanted to do better: GTA4 was the release that made us fundamentally reappraise the way we looked at games, and how we would present them on the page - and it was almost certainly the first console game that underwent the now standard performance analysis.

Link

Quaz51 has been counting pixels for a while now, there was no lack of pixel counting information in the PS3/360 days because it would be known most times before release since there were so many demos, broken street dates, previews etc. Quaz did disappear for a bit after last gen died down, but he resurfaced in 2013 and made some calls. Now I know that there are other guys who do pixel counting but they're pretty much all from B3D, Mazingerdude and Grandmaster for example. If any of these guys are doing the counting from DF currently, they're still B3D guys.

Of late, I see it's mostly Al Strong making calls. Relative to MKX....


This was AL at B3D " It might be 1344 or 1360x1080 or thereabouts." based on this screen. This was tuesday the 14th. (release day)

This was also AL on GAF.

You would actually need to do a reliable count of 120 pixels to differentiate them.

84 steps : 120px -> 1344
85 steps : 120px -> 1360

Anything measured below 120 pixels can go either way depending on which set of pixels get interpolated/upscaled accordingly. (My initial count was 1360, but I could find 1344 if I tried).

At any rate, I'm not sure that it particularly matters as long as we're in the area of it. I'm more curious as to their renderer. Dropping MSAA support on PC would imply they moved to a deferred setup (and couldn't be bothered to support deferred MSAA).

Is it coincidence that it's the same conclusion? This information was there at least 4 days before the DF article was published.

 

[Javin98]

Better resolution and performance seems to be the common advantage PS4 versions of multi platform games enjoy over the Xbox One counterparts. It's nice that the console versions (especially the PS4 version) at least have a decent level of AF (8x) implemented, though naturally 16x would have been preferable.

Agreed. 8× AF looks almost as good as 16× AF, so I'm satisfied with 8× to be honest. Regarding the PS4's advantage, this is actually what we should expect instead of better resolution but worse frame rate.

 

[HTupolev]

You see this is the type of answer I can't trust, you say I'm completely wrong but you refuse to give any evidence on the contrary.

"the game is cpu bound, that's why Unity is dropping more frames on PS4

DF's actual wording:

"In terms of single-player performance, both consoles manage to achieve a near locked 30fps for extended periods of time during gameplay in more linear environments or scenes that aren't filled with expansive detail - even when there are copious amounts of particles and post-processing effects on display - suggesting that large numbers of NPCs and a CPU bottleneck are the causes of the major drops in smoothness we see elsewhere."

"However, the PS4 consistently outperforms Xbox One during cut-scenes, suggesting that a CPU bottleneck is the cause for the heavy drops in performance in demanding gameplay scenes.

"the game is cpu bound that's why the there's slowdown during cross-sections in GTA4"

Assuming you mean GTA5, DF's actual wording:

"the density of active vehicles is matched for both PS4 and Xbox One, so the Microsoft console's advantage here is probably down to its faster CPU cores."

"1886 does not use 4xMSAA"

DF's actual wording:

"We've expressed some doubts as to whether the final game is using MSAA and having combed through our captures of the full game, the jury's still out."

authoritative statements without proof.

Where are these authoritative statements?

link

That's 2008 and has very little bearing as to what's going on in 2015.

At any rate, as someone who follows happenings on B3D, it's definitely not the case that DF draws exclusively from that forum for pixel counting data. Pixel counting also isn't something that's hard to delve into.

 

[Dictator93]

Fixed the issue with black crush on MK X on the pc!

Go to options then videi options, change brightess to 50 ( they have it set to 35 ) and gamma to 50 ( they have it at 45 ) thisnwill not add or subtract from the picture and it will be perfect!

The contrast is set to 50 already, 50 is the mid point or nuetral.point of these options. They really should have done this from the default and let people crush their blacks if they really wanted to.

Game.looks soo much better now, I can see all of the detail now

I guess they were trying to go for the xbox one look of over saturated colors and black crush... ugh

Hrm, Interesting.

 

[AgentP]

Quaz51 has been counting pixels for a while now, there was no lack of pixel counting information in the PS3/360 days because it would be known most times before release since there were so many demos, broken street dates, previews etc. Quaz did disappear for a bit after last gen died down, but he resurfaced in 2013 and made some calls. Now I know that there are other guys who do pixel counting but they're pretty much all from B3D, Mazingerdude and Grandmaster for example. If any of these guys are doing the counting from DF currently, they're still B3D guys.

Grandmaster is DF, he is Richard Ledbetter. He doesn't pixel count.

 

[Nzyme32]

30fps cutscenes with black crush on PC? How the hell does this happen?

The cut scenes are fine (except for the weird contrast, which hopefully will get a fix). The 30fps parts are the fatalities and xrays - exactly the same as on the consoles minus the majority complaining about it on PC and very few even caring about on the consoles.

My biggest grip along with others is that cap in a PC game, but I don't know who is at fault here - Netherrealm or High Voltage.

 

[Dictator93]

The cut scenes are fine (except for the weird contrast, which hopefully will get a fix). The 30fps parts are the fatalities and xrays - exactly the same as on the consoles minus the majority complaining about it on PC and very few even caring about on the consoles.

My biggest grip along with others is that cap in a PC game, but I don't know who is at fault here - Netherrealm or High Voltage.

I dont get it, someone came in here earlier saying the 15 gb patch or whatever made the menus, xrays, and ingame cutscenes go up to 60fps?

Were they mistaken?

 

[thelastword]

Grandmaster is DF, he is Richard Ledbetter. He doesn't pixel count.

So he is Leadbetter, no wonder I've seen statements saying that he uses much of the information from his browsing at B3D for DF articles. I mentioned Grandmaster and Mazinger because I know they have affiliations with DF from B3D. I just don't know who they were in the (real world) non-internet persona.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I hope that High Voltage won't mess up the 360/PS3-version.

I wouldn't have much faith in those versions. I remember Netherrealm talking about how difficult it was to even get UE3 running at 60fps on last gen consoles.

 

[Corine]

I'm buying a PS4 this year, it's by far the best console and I won't have to deal with PC port bullshit anymore. MKX online is unplayable on PC and it's just depressing.

Then how am I watching people play it online just fine on twitch?

 

[Inuhanyou]

Then how am I watching people play it online just fine on twitch?

Depending on the set up, and specific game issues it could be a nightmare for one person and a breeze for another. But that's literally every game ever

 

[Head.spawn]

So he is Leadbetter, no wonder I've seen statements saying that he uses much of the information from his browsing at B3D for DF articles. I mentioned Grandmaster and Mazinger because I know they have affiliations with DF from B3D. I just don't know who they were in the (real world) non-internet persona.

It looked like you mentioned Grandmaster because you were saying you know he is a pixel counter. Which is the thing you're trying to discredit them for..?

I think you're way too invested in this DF vendetta of yours.

 

[thelastword]

Where are these authoritative statements?

Lets just say that they don't qualify their statements, tech analyses are objective pieces, if people go to you because they trust your judgement to be precise and right, they will take your word as gospel.

RAD said that they have 4xMSAA in 1886, I believe them, I won't dispute that with an opposing opinion or a doubtful one without any logical/visual references in my dissent. It's similar to the dev correcting DF on the AA method in PCars, I wish they'd stick to their FXAA story and prove why it's FXAA as opposed to EQAA, but we all know they won't because they had nothing, just blanket statements and guesses most of the time.

That's 2008 and has very little bearing as to what's going on in 2015.

I also quoted an article from 2013, did you miss that one, I also quoted the exact pixel count conclusion from the person who does most of the pixel counting now, Alstrong, is that not recent enough? If DF has they own pixel counter, why can't he give a definite resolution for the xbone version, it's pretty coincidental that it's the same 1344 or 1360 *1080p from Alstrong. Truth be told, they said that COD AW had a variable resolution on the xbone, but could never prove it. If they have a resident counter how comes it's always the same information that's already out there with so many inconclusives. The DF counter should just put his number out there as a professional and make a call, lets not kid ourselves here though, we know what's going on.

It looked like you mentioned Grandmaster because you were saying you know he is a pixel counter. Which is the thing you're trying to discredit them for..?

I think you're way too invested in this DF vendetta of yours

I have an account at B3D as well, I know of Mazinger, Al and Quaz51 from there, I know these guys are pixel counters for sure, I've read countless threads with these guys giving their take on screens etc.. well mostly last gen anyway. The grandmaster name came up because of his link to DF with pixel counting information, I must say that I didn't know much of grandmaster prior to tonight but I did read of his affiliations to DF with pixel counting information. I got that confused and I accept AgentP's correction in light of grandmaster's true identity. I now know that grandmaster was just a go between B3D and DF for pixel counting information. He's not a pixel counter I concede, but my point still stands. There have been several DF articles mentioning Mazinger and Quaz51 relative to pixel counting information and pixel counting corrections.

 

[Deleted member 325805]

Then how am I watching people play it online just fine on twitch?

If you want to be pedantic, sure, you can play a round or two, but you'll crash to desktop sooner or later or error out making it tedious to to play instead of fun. And I haven't seen any PC players play without issues, and I don't know a single person who does.

 

[-MD-]

If you want to be pedantic, sure, you can play a round or two, but you'll crash to desktop sooner or later or error out making it tedious to to play instead of fun. And I haven't seen any PC players play without issues, and I don't know a single person who does.

I've played about 12 matches online with no issues outside of lag.

Edit: not defending the port's issues, just sayin it's not unplayable.

 

[BizzyBum]

Microsoft really fucked up with the XB1.

 

[Deleted member 325805]

I've played about 12 matches online with no issues outside of lag.

Edit: not defending the port's issues, just sayin it's not unplayable.

Lag is a pretty big deal though.

 

[FranXico]

I experienced lag in one match. Other than that, online was worked fine for the most part.

 

[HTupolev]

Lets just say that they don't qualify their statements

On occasion, although assessing how important that is depends on the statement. Also, as I pointed out, most of the examples you've given have been incorrect.

(And as for the one that was "correct", I personally strongly hesitate to attack DF's judgement of pcar's AA. As someone who dabbles in pixel counting, the XB1 screenshots they provided appear to support their conclusion. If the WMD forum post wasn't mistaken, then the EQAA in question is broken as hell, because plenty of geometry edges clearly have stairsteps of >1-pixel scale on them.)

RAD said that they have 4xMSAA in 1886, I believe them, I won't dispute that with an opposing opinion or a doubtful one without any logical/visual references in my dissent.

Logical references? Like this?

"While extremely clean for the most part, we noticed some particularly fine details exhibiting minor sub-pixel breakup that seems uncharacteristic of MSAA. Certain thin objects, such as guard rails on the zeppelin stage, also showcase artefacts potentially related to the temporal component of their AA solution. It's difficult to argue with the results, however."

DF's guess was wrong, but they also didn't express great confidence in it.

I also quoted an article from 2013, did you miss that one

I didn't miss it, but I'm not seeing how you've concluded from it that DF didn't have anyone who knew how to pixel count at that time.

I also quoted the exact pixel count conclusion from the person who does most of the pixel counting now, Alstrong, is that not recent enough?

Check your PMs.

Truth be told, they said that COD AW had a variable resolution on the xbone, but could never prove it.

What would you consider a satisfactory demonstration? They flat-out provide images in their performance analysis article to show how the difference between PS4 and XB1 changes by area.

 

[dark10x]

This is where NX gamer edges you guys out because he does not sit on his horse and make blanket statements where he expects his subjects to just gobble, he shows/pinpoints and qualify every statement he makes in the form of "hey, check these shadows in the corner"..... Corroborative evidence in any objective or would-be objective statement is key.

See, his video format is great and it does allow for a demonstration of things directly to the viewer, but his actual guesses are often just that - guesses. He throws around terms like tessellation without any real proof that it's being used on a regular basis. You never call him on those.

Then there's the Advanced Warfare dynamic resolution thing. I haven't played it on XO myself but one of the founders of Sledgehammer specifically noted that it uses dynamic resolution.

http://www.reddit.com/r/CodAW/comments/2l3s4z/call_of_duty_advanced_warfare_ama_with_shgames/

So you choose not to believe them but are ready to believe what Ready at Dawn says in a heartbeat, no questions asked?

For The Order, which I think is the best looking game on the market, there were indeed artifacts present that lead me to question if it really was using 4x MSAA. The AA is absolutely amazing regardless but I didn't want to make a definitive statement without being 100% certain. There's always a certain amount of guess work in this stuff for everyone covering this type of content. Some things are clear as day but others can be questioned.

For the record, I actually can do much of my own pixel counting now. I'm still learning and there are people to bounce it off of but my counts have not been wrong yet (but that's only for my articles). It's not impossible to pixel count but it can be difficult these days with the various type of post processing AA techniques available.

For Project CARS, if you look at the screens yourself, does that REALLY look like EQAA? If they are indeed using it then it's a bad implementation at this time. Maybe it wasn't in that build?

Also, since you missed out it in the other thread, you were wrong about NFS HP2 being 60fps on ps2. There's loads of 60fps ps2 racing games but that's not one of 'em.

 

[thelastword]

On occasion, although assessing how important that is depends on the statement. Also, as I pointed out, most of the examples you've given have been incorrect.

It doesn't matter how DF says it, they were wrong, the improvements to UNITY and GTA5 shows clearly that their assessment was wrong. I don't know how you have proven that incorrect. GTA5 now runs much better on the PS4 as opposed to xbone, the 150Mhz uptick on the xbone had no impact whatsoever as is clear in many other scenarios. Other analysts called DF out on these cpu references as well, now devs are calling DF out for various other reasons.

(And as for the one that was "correct", I personally strongly hesitate to attack DF's judgement of pcar's AA. As someone who dabbles in pixel counting, the XB1 screenshots they provided appear to support their conclusion. If the WMD forum post wasn't mistaken, then the EQAA in question is broken as hell, because plenty of geometry edges clearly have stairsteps of >1-pixel scale on them.)

So you're saying the devs are lying and what you've written above is good enough for me not to believe them, is that another example of you proving something incorrect?

Logical references? Like this?

Yes, because Andrea Pessino (the chief technology officer) and Matt Pettineo (engine programmer said it), not some pr guy. There was some debate to use 2xMSAA combined with FXAA but they opted for 4xMSAA with TAA on top, the only question for them at that point was 1920 x 1080p or 1920 x 800. They would most likely opted for 2xMSAA with FXAA had they gone 1920 x 1080p.

"While extremely clean for the most part, we noticed some particularly fine details exhibiting minor sub-pixel breakup that seems uncharacteristic of MSAA. Certain thin objects, such as guard rails on the zeppelin stage, also showcase artefacts potentially related to the temporal component of their AA solution. It's difficult to argue with the results, however."

DF's guess was wrong, but they also didn't express great confidence in it.

And it's not the first time either.

MSAA will reduce on sup pixel aliasing, not eliminate it entirely, it's important to note that MSAA has varying strengths/samples which gives better coverage with more samples. Anybody who believes they will find no sup-pixel aliasing with 4xMSAA is fooling themselves. RAD are heavily invested in a clean image and on top of the 4xMSAA, they implemented TAA to get rid of "flickering" (which is a pet peeve of mine). On top of that, there was a lot of effort and techniques implemented to reduce specular aliasing as noted in their PBR PDF.

With so many AA solutions and techniques implemented in tandem, I'm sure you can pinpoint some minor artefacts or breakups here and there (especially if you zoom in) but that does not detract from the point that the game is using MSAA. The statement from DF will have you believe that it's not using MSAA at all.

What would you consider a satisfactory demonstration? They flat-out provide images in their performance analysis article to show how the difference between PS4 and XB1 changes by area.

Again, just talk no evidence, here's what DF had to say. "The transition itself is never obvious. But after sampling as many static shots we could find, we've yet to encounter any horizontal pixel-counts in between 1360 and 1920."

See, his video format is great and it does allow for a demonstration of things directly to the viewer, but his actual guesses are often just that - guesses. He throws around terms like tessellation without any real proof that it's being used on a regular basis. You never call him on those.

When was he wrong about that on a released game, he said BB had tessellation, many of the same detractors denied it, but it's there.

Then there's the Advanced Warfare dynamic resolution thing. I haven't played it on XO myself but one of the founders of Sledgehammer specifically noted that it uses dynamic resolution.

http://www.reddit.com/r/CodAW/comments/2l3s4z/call_of_duty_advanced_warfare_ama_with_shgames/

Really dark? are you talking about this?

Minimum XboxOne resolution is 1360x1080, and dynamically scales from there to full 1080p. That’s over 50% increase from last year. Advanced Warfare runs native 1080p on PS4. Both running at rock solid 60fps.

I mean come on, this is basically an Aaron Greenberg type comment, "You realize you will see every game in 1080p as your output right?"

There were so many clues too, "50% increase from last year", it was 720p in ghosts, now it's 1360 x 1080p. I mean seriously, of course scaling is a dynamic process, it's just a play on words dark. If none of that clued you in 'rock solid 60fps" should have clued you in at least.

More So you choose not to believe them but are ready to believe what Ready at Dawn says in a heartbeat, no questions asked?

Not in a heartbeat, DF has no evidence to support their dynamic resolution claim, totally misunderstood an exchange on a reddit AMA, I think that puts it in perspective. DF also has no evidence to support their claim that 1886 has no MSAA. Have you put a video together explaining why you think it does not? I believe when you're going to challenge something there must be conclusive evidence and detail to prove your dissenting claim, but like in many other examples DF will never back their claims, especially when they're called out on it.

I'd wish that DF would do a video to show that 1886 does not have MSAA and PC does not have EQAA, do it in the style of NXgamer where you pinpoint the artefacts and sup-pixel noise and give evidence of other 4xMSAA games which don't have that problem, that'd be swell.

For The Order, which I think is the best looking game on the market, there were indeed artifacts present that lead me to question if it really was using 4x MSAA. The AA is absolutely amazing regardless but I didn't want to make a definitive statement without being 100% certain. There's always a certain amount of guess work in this stuff for everyone covering this type of content. Some things are clear as day but others can be questioned.

Has something changed recently, you weren't that direct with your assessment of the order's visuals, in any case, that part is purely subjective and I'd never argue that. my arguments are simply on things stated that are not proven.

For the record, I actually can do much of my own pixel counting now. I'm still learning and there are people to bounce it off of but my counts have not been wrong yet (but that's only for my articles). It's not impossible to pixel count but it can be difficult these days with the various type of post processing AA techniques available.

I'm pretty sure I dabble in pixel counting too, but I won't want to call my self a pixel counter for a tech site, there are much better counters out there and for objective reasons you will take their findings over yours since findings can vary per person, depending on how accurate you are or you've been.

You still have not answered me who is responsible for the pixel counting on DF's stafflist, is it you, is it grandmaster aka leadbetter? Are your sources not from B3D which you outright denied. Can you confirm that Alnets/Alstrong's 1344 or 1360 x1080p (assessment) was just coincidentally similar to your counter? Can you confirm that DF and Alstrong/B3D have no affiliation for pixel counting?

I thought they were using a fat G-buffer. I forget.

DF may be doing a performance eval soon. *ahem*

That was Alstrong at B3D, throwing a hint.

Also, since you missed out it in the other thread, you were wrong about NFS HP2 being 60fps on ps2. There's loads of 60fps ps2 racing games but that's not one of 'em.

Thanks for the correction, here's some recent gameplay I came across. Vid.

 

[dark10x]

Thanks for the correction, here's some recent gameplay I came across. Vid.

Ah, I see, they recorded it at 60fps (for frame consistency) but you can see from the video that it's only 30fps. An exception for the system, really, since so many others were 60fps.

Has something changed recently, you weren't that direct with your assessment of the order's visuals, in any case, that part is purely subjective and I'd never argue that. my arguments are simply on things stated that are not proven.

I really tried to be objective and not just go nuts with praise since I can understand a variation in viewpoints. If you don't think I pulled it off, that's fine, but I was trying to be positive without sounding like a fanboy. Personally, I do think it's the best looking game I've actually played AND I quite enjoyed the game too. I think it's super underrated.

DF also has no evidence to support their claim that 1886 has no MSAA. Have you put a video together explaining why you think it does not?

I think you're reading into it the wrong way. I phrased the MSAA comment the way I did due to a slight uncertainty at the time that it wasn't full MSAA. Look at the final lines hanging on the crane. The bit of sub-pixel breakup there caught my eye. There's not much of that in the game but it gave way to doubt. I always thought it had MSAA but I wasn't sure if it was full on 4x. The amount of post-processing, the temporal component of the AA solution, and the occasional subpixel breakup kept me from being 100% certain. I feel like you interpreted that statement as way WAY WAY more negative than it was intended to be.

Regardless, I'm trying hard to improve as best as I can and I can assure that everything I write is as objective as possible.

 

[thelastword]

Ah, I see, they recorded it at 60fps (for frame consistency) but you can see from the video that it's only 30fps. An exception for the system, really, since so many others were 60fps.

I realized that, but it's been a while since I played it myself. It felt very smooth when I played it originally, but it's clearly not 60 there.

I really tried to be objective and not just go nuts with praise since I can understand a variation in viewpoints. If you don't think I pulled it off, that's fine, but I was trying to be positive without sounding like a fanboy. Personally, I do think it's the best looking game I've actually played AND I quite enjoyed the game too. I think it's super underrated.

It's not about sounding like a fanboy, it's about calling it like you see it. When OG Farcry and later when Crysis dropped, I knew nothing looked as good as these games. I don't think I should be declared a fanboy if I admitted such.

I think you're reading into it the wrong way. I phrased the MSAA comment the way I did due to a slight uncertainty at the time that it wasn't full MSAA. Look at the final lines hanging on the crane. The bit of sub-pixel breakup there caught my eye. There's not much of that in the game but it gave way to doubt. I always thought it had MSAA but I wasn't sure if it was full on 4x. The amount of post-processing, the temporal component of the AA solution, and the occasional subpixel breakup kept me from being 100% certain. I feel like you interpreted that statement as way WAY WAY more negative than it was intended to be.

There's not much to say about that anymore as I believe distant objects hold themselves very well in that game with straight sharp antialiased lines. It's one of the areas I was most impressed with overall.

Regardless, I'm trying hard to improve as best as I can and I can assure that everything I write is as objective as possible.

Good intentions is not the equivalent of being right. You will still make mistakes, nothing is perfect, neither is any analysis, that's why we discuss and hope we improve. I have never called you a fanboy or biased tbh, I have never done that to anybody to be frank. I simply look at the footage and read the analysis to see if they match or if there's consistency there. I always prefer people to make cases than state cases, I guess in the objective arena the lack of it is what can have me a bit miffed. I really hope DF step their game up, but for now I will give NX the edge for his good eye and in the way he presents his cases/analyses.

 

[SeeNoWeevil]

MKX on PS4 has different gamma output than my other games. I need 1-2 clicks on the 'brightness' slider to see the 'just above black' portion.

 

[thelastword]

Maybe they're trying to simulate this;

or this

Depending on what cable it is, with a heavy weight dangling and twisting that cable, you can sometimes have that effect on cables. All the other lines without weights suspending from them are much straighter.

 

[SeeNoWeevil]

Default 'brightness'

2 clicks higher

 

[Conduit]

Default 'brightness'

2 clicks higher

Aaaand, which version is that?

 

[SeeNoWeevil]

Aaaand, which version is that?

PS4.

 

[bigdaddygamebot]

So a choice between a shit AA solution (PS4), shit AA & resolution (X1), and crushed blacks (PC)?

Amazing.

You're right man. All the choices look just fucking terrible.

 

[3rdamention]

MKX on PS4 has different gamma output than my other games. I need 1-2 clicks on the 'brightness' slider to see the 'just above black' portion.

Same here on PS4, had to up the Brightness slider like 3 clicks to "barely see the MK Logo" as suggested in the games settings.

 

[rokkerkory]

I hate don mattrick

 

[Momentary]

Okay... Do stages have different time of day and alternates that can be unlocked? Because I'm on PC and the stage with Sonya Blade and Kano up there doesn't look the same as the one on PS4.

Update:

It's a different time of day and it seems like it's gone through further destruction. I tried looking it up on Google and got nothing. Haven't played this game too much.

Edit: Disregard. Just went to story mode. I guess it'll be selectable sometime down the line.

 

[Phat Michael]

Microsoft really fucked up with the XB1.

In what way? I've been playing for ages and it's great fun.

 

[HTupolev]

I don't know how you have proven that incorrect.

I didn't prove that DF's guesses were right (nor was I trying to), I showed that they didn't state things authoritatively as you originally claimed. Most of DF's claims that you referenced were explicitly qualified, and the only one that wasn't was supported by their screenshots.

So you're saying the devs are lying and what you've written above is good enough for me not to believe them, is that another example of you proving something incorrect?

I didn't say the devs are lying.

I said that if they hadn't made a mistake regarding the state of that build (which, even if it happened, wouldn't necessarily be a lie), then the implementation is broken, to the extent that DF's call that there was no hardware AA was well supported.

Is what I've written above good enough? Not by itself, no. With the support of the images from the DF article, though, I think it carries some weight. Check out the fourth image in the comparison, for instance, and look at the hood of the car in the XB1 image: those are geometry edge aliases with solid stairsteps of greater than pixel scale, there's no sign of sample-based AA on it. Most stuff in the images that seems pixel-countable is like that, appearing to be less than one step per pixel in the XB1 images.

The statement from DF will have you believe that it's not using MSAA at all.

No it wouldn't. The wording makes a very explicit note of uncertainty. I certainly didn't take it as a claim of fact when I read it, which is why I tried measuring it myself to try and figure out what was going on when I played the game.

(And then wound up getting a response from Matt Pettineo about it, heh.)

Again, just talk no evidence, here's what DF had to say. "The transition itself is never obvious. But after sampling as many static shots we could find, we've yet to encounter any horizontal pixel-counts in between 1360 and 1920."

???

I just pointed out to you that their CoD:AW performance analysis article has comparative images that demonstrate the resolution change. It's blatant screenshot evidence that shows that sometimes the XB1 version has IQ matching the PS4 version, and other times is disadvantaged. And they subtitled those images as such.

 

[Conduit]

Default 'brightness'

2 clicks higher

This is mine screenshot. Brightness by default. And probably Sony TV's has the best settings out-of-the-box for game mode. Any, i see this is different time of the day. Shadow position.

 

[ramoisdead]

I had my suspicions that the PS4 version would be the better one in this case. I do not trust High Voltage Software in the slightest.

 

[SeeNoWeevil]

This is mine screenshot. Brightness by default. And probably Sony TV's has the best settings out-of-the-box for game mode. Any, i see this is different time of the day. Shadow position.

That's the other version of the same stage. One is in the past. The images were captured straight from the console so screen calibration doesn't come into it.

 

[Conduit]

That's the other version of the same stage. One is in the past. The images were captured straight from the console so screen calibration doesn't come into it.

So was mine.

 

[TGO]

Well if you go with the console version, the game is not going to be any better.

Based on those shots on DF? Yeah they are!
What did they do, blurry and crushed blackson PC? WTF

 

[StrongBlackVine]

A fighting game with fixed camera sort of deal should really be 1080p60 on both consoles and PC.

Was this game ported to Xb1 and PC, as I struggle to see why ?

As a Ps4 owner I am glad the focus seemed to be on this version but still struggle to see what went on here (did High voltage port Xb1 and PC versions ?)

Killer Instinct is not 1080p so I would not blame it on being a port.