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[Pjsprojects]

I class myself as an enthusiast but am waiting for a possible price cut on the Pro when Scorpio is released before upgrading.

I have a decent PC but the constant PSN sales have pushed me more towards the Pro this year.

 

[cakely]

Most of us already know this but there are GAF members that think that Xbox One Scorpio will outsell the Xbox One S this holiday season.

The reality is the Xbox One Scorpio will account for about 20% of total Xbox One sales over the holidays. We know this because we've already seen what a mid-generation hardware upgrade launch looks like.

 

[Rats Off To Ya]

The Pro is a niche product that I wouldn't necessarily recommend to a person not especially concerned with image quality. In my case, it was a solution to a very particular problem I had with the base PS4, but I know I don't represent the majority by any stretch.

I think the Pro is in a good spot. It offers a tangible benefit to those seeking it without diminishing the value of the original system. I'm curious to see how Scorpio will position itself. If their intention is to change their fortunes with a premium console, I think that's gonna be a hard sell given their competition this holiday.

 

[The God]

Mm

reminds me of when gaf told me the Neo would be flying off the shelves

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

The PS4 exists to allow a inexpensive entryway into the ecosystem.

The PS4 Pro exists for folks that know what they're buying and want the "Deluxe" model.

 

[Klocker]

Scorpio has not been named nor advertised. I'm guessing MS will market the shit out of it after E3

 

[Bgamer90]

Most of us already know this but there are GAF members that think that Xbox One Scorpio will outsell the Xbox One S this holiday season.

Yeah, that won't happen.

The reality is the Xbox One Scorpio will account for about 20% of total Xbox One sales over the holidays. We know this because we've already seen what a mid-generation hardware upgrade launch looks like.

I wouldn't use what the PS4 Pro did for overall PS4 sales for what the Scorpio will do for overall Xbox One sales yet. We still don't know the price, we still haven't see how MS is advertising this, and I would say that people that bought an Xbox One before 2015 are more "hardcore" (in this case, hardcore Xbox fans) than people that bought a PS4 before 2015.

 

[Bits N Pieces]

I know quite a few people who switched to PS4 from X360 at the start of this gen and most of them are buying a Scorpio at release later this year.

It's not going to set the world alight but I do think Scorpio will have pretty strong sales out the gate.

 

[Fredrik]

Why would the general population be expected to know the code name for the next Xbox that is not advertised, or sitting on a store shelf?

Yeah. This.
Wait until the E3 unveil and the launch marketing starts, then ask people if they know about the console.

PS4 Pro is a bit different. Not sure what's happening there tbh. Maybe too similar boxes?

 

[miller.skippins]

I know quite a few people who switched to PS4 from X360 at the start of this gen and most of them are buying a Scorpio at release later this year.

It's not going to set the world alight but I do think Scorpio will have pretty strong sales out the gate.

but the people you knew are probably 'enthusiasts' already so it's probably some sort of 'confirmation bias'.

The 'most people' this article talked about is well.........'the general populace'.

 

[Miniature Kaiju]

The PS4 exists to allow a inexpensive entryway into the ecosystem.

The PS4 Pro exists for folks that know what they're buying and what the "Deluxe" model.

Yup. And the existence of the Pro allows Sony to get more aggressive with the OG pricing without eating too much into their margins (by splitting addressable market in two), while expanding their unified user base.

 

[Dougieflesh]

Makes sense. My non-enthusiast friends haven't even heard of the Pro yet. I just see no scenario where Scorpio will outsell what Pro did in its first holiday.

 

[SOR5]

Bit of a weird article in terms of Scorpio

Did everybody who bought a Switch know about "NX"?

And also the Pro is far more geared towards a certain crowd in terms of marketing, just too much context that's forgotten

Sony and Microsoft have way different priorities in marketing

Ones an extension of life for enthusiasts, ones a soft reboot that's not even left the codename stage yet

 

[Jumeira]

Scorpio is the code name that MS have yet to market..no shit Verge

This is more troubling for Sony tbh.

 

[King_Moc]

That's kind of the point of these consoles, right? Niche, enthusiast products to stop gamers migrating to PC at the tail end of the life cycle when console games are being massively outperformed by PC's.

I know quite a few people who switched to PS4 from X360 at the start of this gen and most of them are buying a Scorpio at release later this year.

It's not going to set the world alight but I do think Scorpio will have pretty strong sales out the gate.

Whereas I know nobody that's doing this. Anecdotal evidence isn't terribly useful.

 

[MisterR]

This is going to be a big shock to all the Xbox fans who think Scorpio is going to change the game for MS. PS4 Pro and Scorpio are very niche products.

 

[Jaguar Victory]

Makes sense. My non-enthusiast friends haven't even heard of the Pro yet. I just see no scenario where Scorpio will outsell what Pro did in its first holiday.

IMO Scorpio will outdo the Pro's launch numbers. MS is putting more beef behind the Scorpio and we've had another year of 4k adoption.

This is going to be a big shock to all the Xbox fans who think Scorpio is going to change the game for MS. PS4 Pro and Scorpio are very niche products.

Was the XBOX One at $499.99 a niche product at launch? It sold millions. I do think that sharing a library with XBO will hurt it a little, though it should also make it tempting to upgrade for existing owners because they don't lose their library and tempting for PS4 owners because they can jump into the ecosystem and pay the games they missed out on and the best versions of multiplayer.

 

[Resident_UA]

I made a thread about how much I love Pro. It pushed me down the rabbit hole to where I own two 4K TVs, one of which is OLED. And it's best decision I ever made! Would never go back

BUT that said the whole point of Pro was to make it a niche product. And I'm OK with it.

 

[SOR5]

This is going to be a big shock to all the Xbox fans who think Scorpio is going to change the game for MS. PS4 Pro and Scorpio are very niche products.

The only big shock will be how different the two products will be in terms of marketing and exposure.

 

[Bits N Pieces]

That's kind of the point of these consoles, right? Niche, enthusiast products to stop gamers migrating to PC at the tail end of the life cycle when console games are being massively outperformed by PC's.



Whereas I know nobody that's doing this. Anecdotal evidence isn't terribly useful.

It is when you aren't trying to define or frame the situation and are merely giving some anecdotal information to the conversation. It's okay that my friends are going to buy a Scorpio and that you don't know anyone that is. That's what anecdotal evidence is, anecdotal

 

[MisterR]

The only big shock will be how different the two products will be in terms of marketing and exposure.

Keep your hopes as high as you like. You're gonna be disappointed in Scorpio's sales numbers.

 

[hanspampel]

I've taken part in quite a number of these kinds of market research surveys, but your interpretation of those percentages in not generally how they work.

Normally they ask if you've heard of product X, Y/N. They then on the next page they outline what product X is after you've answered. In a subsequent question they then ask if it's something you'd consider purchasing. By the time the planned purchase question is asked, 100% of those surveyed are aware of what it is and the response is an informed and more useful one.

always better to know the exact methodology
i honestly know both and none is more frequent used that the other



an even more important question is what about people who already bought a ps4 Pro
is that reflected in the question? included in the 15% figure?

 

[SOR5]

Keep your hopes as high as you like. You're gonna be disappointed in Scorpio's sales numbers.

I couldn't give a shit about Scorpios sales numbers if I tried mate

 

[Elfstruck]

This is more troubling for Sony tbh.

Yep, definitely.

Spoiler

/s

 

[Bits N Pieces]

Keep your hopes as high as you like. You're gonna be disappointed in Scorpio's sales numbers.

He didn't mention Scorpio sales, that's you projecting.

 

[silva1991]

Well yeah, they aren't for the average Joe.

 

[DerZuhälter]

lol
Why are people claiming these devices are "enthusiast products"? PS4pro is 350 bucks. Scorpio is max. 500 bucks on release. Nobody called standard PS4/Xbox enthusiast products when they released.
Sony was smart enough not to splash too much money on marketing and production, going by the numbers of PS4pros I see on shelves in Germany. But going by the lack of sales numbers for it, it surely isn't moving that many units. So let's stop kidding ourselves and being too kind to the PSpro and Scorpio.

 

[MisterR]

I couldn't give a shit about Scorpios sales numbers if I tried mate

Most of the marked isn't looking for a high end elite level console. They want the lowest entry price to play the new games coming out. Price is way more important than horsepower when it comes to console gaming.

 

[kadotsu]

I feel like the situation (mindshare wise) is similar to the WiiU. Uninformed buyers will have either never heard of it or think of it as the 4k add on, which they don't need because their TV is 4k. This is why generations are important from an advertising standpoint. Precedent of a tech jump has been established and packaged in a simple to understand marketing message: The number on the end of the console is now higher so it is better.

lol
Why are people claiming these devices are "enthusiast products"? PS4pro is 350 bucks. Scorpio is max. 500 bucks on release. Nobody called standard PS4/Xbox enthusiast products when they released.
Sony was smart enough not to splash too much money on marketing and production, going by the numbers of PS4pros I see on shelves in Germany. But going by the lack of sales numbers for it, it surely isn't moving that many units. So let's stop kidding ourselves and being too kind to the PSpro and Scorpio.

The early adopters are enthusiast.

 

[darkwing]

most people hear about this $199 console etc..

 

[MisterR]

He didn't mention Scorpio sales, that's you projecting.

I'm not projecting anything. I noted that some MS fans are going to be surprised when Scorpio didn't set the world on fire. He responded directly to me seeming to feel otherwise, the whole discussion was about Scorpio sales.

 

[jroc74]

I believe it.

Especially how lil Sony advertised the Pro.

This will change come E3 for Scorpio tho.

 

[hanspampel]

people are very early on the bomba train
nothing learned from the Switch?

i would rather wait for price, marketing, preorder impressions and other real indicators, than base my assumptions on pure "feelings"

lol
Why are people claiming these devices are "enthusiast products"? PS4pro is 350 bucks. Scorpio is max. 500 bucks on release. Nobody called standard PS4/Xbox enthusiast products when they released.
Sony was smart enough not to splash too much money on marketing and production, going by the numbers of PS4pros I see on shelves in Germany. But going by the lack of sales numbers for it, it surely isn't moving that many units. So let's stop kidding ourselves and being too kind to the PSpro and Scorpio.

you get sales for the Japanese market every week
roughly ~20% of total

US November ~20%
US December ~15%

 

[AmFreak]

Uhm, isn't the Pro constantly sold out in the US?
On Amazon.com the cheapest seller has it for $420.

And the Scorpio isn't even close to being out.

 

[MisterR]

lol
Why are people claiming these devices are "enthusiast products"? PS4pro is 350 bucks. Scorpio is max. 500 bucks on release. Nobody called standard PS4/Xbox enthusiast products when they released.
Sony was smart enough not to splash too much money on marketing and production, going by the numbers of PS4pros I see on shelves in Germany. But going by the lack of sales numbers for it, it surely isn't moving that many units. So let's stop kidding ourselves and being too kind to the PSpro and Scorpio.

Actually the people who bought PS4's and Xbone at launce were enthusiasts too. The mainstream doesn't buy consoles at launch.

 

[CronoShot]

Depends on how it's positioned.

PS4 Pro is very clearly an enthusiast console. Unless you've already heard of it, know the advantages, and care enough about those advantages, there's basically zero chance that a random Joe is going to walk into a Walmart and buy a Pro for $400 when the regular PS4 is sitting next to it for $270 and includes a game.

Scorpio sounds similar, but it ultimately depends on if MS is going to treat it as more next gen, or simply a 4K version of what already exists, like the Pro.

 

[Jaguar Victory]

people are very early on the bomba train
nothing learned from the Switch?

i would rather wait for price, marketing, preorder impressions and other real indicators, than base my assumptions on pure "feelings"

I think some folks are hurt knowing that there will be a better version of that game they've been looking forward to on another console. Some will just buy the new console, others will try to convince themselves that its ok and start taking about how far they sit from their TV. We saw this 4 years ago.

 

[King_Moc]

IMO Scorpio will outdo the Pro's launch numbers. MS is putting more beef behind the Scorpio and we've had another year of 4k adoption.



Was the XBOX One at $499.99 a niche product at launch? It sold millions. I do think that sharing a library with XBO will hurt it a little, though it should also make it tempting to upgrade for existing owners because they don't lose their library and tempting for PS4 owners because they can jump into the ecosystem and pay the games they missed out on and the best versions of multiplayer.

None of this makes sense. The extra year of 4K adoption affects the pro too, and you don't explain why people would pick scorpio over the much cheaper base model. Only enthusiast gamers have a reason too. It will sell in line with the Pro.

lol
Why are people claiming these devices are "enthusiast products"? PS4pro is 350 bucks. Scorpio is max. 500 bucks on release. Nobody called standard PS4/Xbox enthusiast products when they released.
Sony was smart enough not to splash too much money on marketing and production, going by the numbers of PS4pros I see on shelves in Germany. But going by the lack of sales numbers for it, it surely isn't moving that many units. So let's stop kidding ourselves and being too kind to the PSpro and Scorpio.

Because there are cheaper versions of the same consoles, that play the same games for less money. These are for the 'premium' experience. Sounds pretty enthusiast to me.

 

[SOR5]

Most of the marked isn't looking for a high end elite level console. They want the lowest entry price to play the new games coming out. Price is way more important than horsepower when it comes to console gaming.

Yet Breath of the Wild sold and pushed sales of which console?

Again, couldn't care if Scorpio sold one unit to a random guy in Venezuela, marketing will be way different regardless, combine it with good software and standout hardware features and there you go.

Pro is an enthusiast option and more reserved, there is nothing wrong with Sonys method. It's different and that's it. Scorpio has been dangled around front and center and will be pumped with glitz and glamour.

I don't care who does what, I'm just telling you it's being pushed in a much different manner.

 

[Rats Off To Ya]

lol
Why are people claiming these devices are "enthusiast products"? PS4pro is 350 bucks. Scorpio is max. 500 bucks on release. Nobody called standard PS4/Xbox enthusiast products when they released.
Sony was smart enough not to splash too much money on marketing and production, going by the numbers of PS4pros I see on shelves in Germany. But going by the lack of sales numbers for it, it surely isn't moving that many units. So let's stop kidding ourselves and being too kind to the PSpro and Scorpio.

Have you ever had a job selling video games? An extra 100 dollars is a big ask to the average person coming into a retail store. I've seen a ton of people make the decision between Xbox and PS4 based on which third-party bundled game they like better.

Point is, most people in my experience don't put a lot of thought into a console purchase. If one box is 25% cheaper than the other it becomes a pretty easy decision.

 

[CronoShot]

Yet Breath of the Wild sold and pushed sales of which console?

Again, couldn't care if Scorpio sold one unit to a random guy in Venezuela, marketing will be way different regardless, combine it with good software and standout hardware features and there you go.

Pro is an enthusiast option and more reserved, there is nothing wrong with Sonys method. It's different and that's it. Scorpio has been dangled around front and center and will be pumped with glitz and glamour.

I don't care who does what, I'm just telling you it's being pushed in a much different manner.

Wii U was (very deliberately by Nintendo) discontinued when BotW came out.

 

[LordofPwn]

the world population is at 7.5 billion. Im going to guess that a lot of people don't know what a PS4 is.
Also not a fan of Nielson.

EDIT: i know it says US, I'm saying world population to make a point that there are a lot of people significantly more than the amount of people that play video games.

 

[Jaguar Victory]

None of this makes sense. The extra year of 4K adoption affects the pro too, and you don't explain why people would pick scorpio over the much cheaper base model. Only enthusiast gamers have a reason too. It will sell in line with the Pro.

My comment said it would beat the Pro launch not cumulative sales and thats why 4k adoptuon matters.

Enthusiasts have also known there was a stronger console coming from the moment the Pro was unveiled. MS talked Scorpio early. Couple that with the lackluster Pro unveiling and there you are. Pro wasn't even shown last E3 at the biggest damn gaming event and I think that was a fuck up on Sony's part.

 

[Elfstruck]

people are very early on the bomba train
nothing learned from the Switch?

i would rather wait for price, marketing, preorder impressions and other real indicators, than base my assumptions on pure "feelings"

Not all people. The moment Zelda was announced to be the launch game for Switch, I know it's gonna sell well. Also, MS didn't say that much when it comes to software for Scorpio. Nintendo on the other hand laid out their plan with Zelda, 1-2 Switch, MKD, Splatoon 2, Mario Odyssey. Sure, Scorpio won't launch until later this year, but doesn't hurt to show off some exciting new projects to get people talking.

 

[Beerman462]

Not super surprised.

I had a friend call me up yesterday and tell me he got a new 1 TB PS4 to replace his old one because he ran out of space for all his annual sports games. He was calling to say that's why he'd been offline for a month and we should have a game of Fifa or The Golf Club etc.

I was like, "So you got a Pro, right?"
"What?"
"A PS4 Pro?"
"Naw, I don't think so. What is that? I got the new 1 terabyte version with the more space in its memory."
"Send me a picture."
*Sends picture*
"Okay, you got a Pro. You did good."
"...you're gonna have to explain the difference to me..."

.

Huh, I guess I didn't fully consider this. In a world of Xbox Elites and console SKUs being defined almost solely by HDD size I can understand someone thinking the Pro is just a PS4 with a bigger HDD. I think with Scorpio coming out advertising for both will increase. Hopefully they can present a clear message.

 

[MisterR]

Yet Breath of the Wild sold and pushed sales of which console?

Again, couldn't care if Scorpio sold one unit to a random guy in Venezuela, marketing will be way different regardless, combine it with good software and standout hardware features and there you go.

Pro is an enthusiast option and more reserved, there is nothing wrong with Sonys method. It's different and that's it. Scorpio has been dangled around front and center and will be pumped with glitz and glamour.

I don't care who does what, I'm just telling you it's being pushed in a much different manner.

So you're saying the Switch is an expensive elite console then? I don't care how they market it. It's going to be the most expensive console on the market. That's a tough hill to climb to get mainstream sales.

 

[hanspampel]

Not all people. The moment Zelda was announced to be the launch game for Switch, I know it's gonna sell well. Also, MS didn't say that much when it comes to software for Scorpio. Nintendo on the other hand laid out their plan with Zelda, 1-2 Switch, MKD, Splatoon 2, Mario Odyssey. Sure, Scorpio won't launch until later this year, but doesn't hurt to show off some exciting new projects to get people talking.

okay yeah.
you mention another important, or even the most important, indicator
games / software lineup

both exclusive and third party

 

[SOR5]

So you're saying the Switch is an expensive elite console then? I don't care how they market it. It's going to be the most expensive console on the market. That's a tough hill to climb to get mainstream sales.

Well I'm not, I'm saying it's the more expensive option that was marketed far more effectively and with far more prioritization then it's older predecessor

 

[Liliana Eileen]

Lol no crap! LOL @ everyone saying Scorpio is going to be some saving grace.

Yeesh, that post history.

 

[GameAddict411]

That is the point.

I think that Sony's approach and they are in no way trying to shift focus on the PRO model, but if you look at MS they are definitely be treating it like a new console. They are hoping to get back some of the people who migrated to Sony console at the beginning of this generation(which is tons of people). But they also want to also include the hardcore market. Getting that is very fine balance, and it won't be attained with an expensive console. Something that the Scorpio will most likely be. I seriously doubt it will be cheaper than $500. How do they expect to replace the XO with a console that costs that much?