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[Izuna]

There day 1 for the new Wolfenstein:

Fucking hell I can't wait for this game.

Mark my words

This will be the best shooter of the generation

 

[coughlanio]

You know what show is really good? The Man in the High Castle.

 

[BebopMcJigglypuff]

I actually kinda dislike the helghast because of the absurd lengths Killzone's plots go through to include "they aren't that bad and are actually victims of your faction" into the lore and such. When they look like this:

The eyes of their helmets have literally gotten angrier overtime...

You should feel bad for wanting to kill people because of how they look.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Many soldiers on all sides intentionally shot above people.

[Need for citation intensifies]

 

[mortal]

Nazi's are some of the most boring and generic villains, especially as they're portrayed in most video games.

 

[duckroll]

This is exactly why I hate stealth missions. Killing dudes who are actively shooting you is one thing, but sneaking around and slitting the throats of some young kids who likely don't want to be there (and may even surrender if provoked) has never sat right with me.

I've never liked military games because of this, but this is doubly true of action games like Uncharted. Just feels gross.

Give me some zombies, aliens, monsters, or let me sneak around everybody please.

ITT ppl are brainwashed by the american popcorn version of history

Pretty much. Many Nazi's refused to shoot.

 

[Chandler X Bing]

I'm a little hesitant to post about such an incendiary issue but the idea of a clean werhmacht isn't exactly true. They were commonly responsible for generally horrible warcrimes, massacres, and rapes, as well as being outright complicit in rounding up jewish people. A lot more information can be found in this well researched and well sourced reddit post.

https://www.reddit.com/r/badhistory/comments/2byfzw/just_following_orders_the_myth_of_the_clean_and/

 

[Crossing Eden]

You should feel bad for wanting to kill people because of how they look.

The game literally starts out with the helghast about to gun down a child after gunning down his father and it's even stated that the helghast don't have to look like nazis but particularly CHOOSE to do so.

 

[vazel]

[Need for citation intensifies]

Hmm, now that I think about it I think I read that on an axishistory forum. So what I (and Izuna) said is prob not reliable.

Edit: I did find this in a quick google search.

A look at history might help illustrate what I am talking about. In World War Two, it is a fact that only 15-20 percent of the soldiers fired at the enemy.

http://www.milsf.com/psychology-of-killing/

 

[Crossing Eden]

Nazi's are easily to hate but the new Wolfenstein still does a good job of establishing the villains despite of the fact.

More effective in motion:

Not only were these guys KKK members, weren't they into human trafficking or something?

They were involved with a ton of dubious shit. Being literal KKK members not withstanding.

 

[BebopMcJigglypuff]

Not when the game literally starts off with them about to shoot a child.

Enemies are never pure evil that's just not how things work, maybe individuals are, but it's all shades of grey. All war is pretty ugly.

A bit choosing to look like nazis happens in Asia still because they don't have the same negative connotations of Nazis, and frankly their uniforms were pretty damn slick.

 

[Conciliator]

i love shooting nazis, far as I'm concerned i've shot way, way more zombies than nazis and i'd prob rather shoot nazis so.

in real life I've never fired a weapon and I am pretty confident I could never unload a weapon pointed at another human being, nor do I have any desire to. but I thought we had kind of already settled this "video games are murder simulators" thing. to the extent that shooting faceless terrorists is a valid gaming loop, shooting faceless nazis is at least as good.

 

[Toa TAK]

That's why you can't go wrong with Nazi Zombies:

 

[Gnome Scat]

Nazi's are some of the most boring and generic villains, especially as they're portrayed in most video games.

Wolfenstein says hi.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Enemies are never pure evil that's just not how things work, maybe individuals are, but it's all shades of grey. All war is pretty ugly.

They're literally portrayed as pure evil the second they're shown about to gun down kids during a peace agreement while wearing even more nazi influences on their sleeve than in the last three games.

A bit choosing to look like nazis happens in Asia still because they don't have the same negative connotations of Nazis, and frankly their uniforms were pretty damn slick.

I tend to think more about the atrocities they committed more so than their costumes.

 

[Izuna]

Hmm, now that I think about it I think I read that on an axishistory forum. So what I (and Izuna) said is prob not reliable.

Edit: I did find this in a quick google search.
http://www.milsf.com/psychology-of-killing/

I thought it was wildly documented when it came to WW1 so I was extrapolating the idea to WW2.

 

[Icyflamez96]

The really owned by Nazi is the best all-time villain.

 

[GeoramA]

I loved tormenting the nazis in The Saboteur. Sad that we'll never get another.

 

[Soul of the Beast]

I can't wait to play Far Cry 5

 

[ScientificPizza]

wow just because someone has different views to you you think that they're villains

Nazis almost seem antiquated compared to the current evil groups in the world today.

That being said, I'm really looking forward to Far Cry 5.

you mean like nazis?

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

I thought it was wildly documented when it came to WW1 so I was extrapolating the idea to WW2.

Those are two different wars. There is a lot of shit that went down in the Eastern Front in World War Two.

 

[Isotropy]

It's tired as hell.

Having Hitler as a mechbot final boss is amazing, but the "soldiers of _____ nation are evil, feel good about stabbing them in the neck!" thing always makes me uncomfortable.

Russians, Germans, Koreans, Afghanis... having them as adversaries in a videogame is fine, but glorifying violence against any in particular seems to go directly against what real soldiers experienced in war - I doubt many came back full of glee about what they did and saw.

 

[BebopMcJigglypuff]

They're literally portrayed as pure evil the second they're shown about to gun down kids during a peace agreement while wearing even more nazi influences on their sleeve than in the last three games.


I tend to think more about the atrocities they committed more so than their costumes.

Basically every war ever is filled with atrocities, that's what war is. The low end of estimates of russian rape/murders of german women after ww2 is in the hundreds of thousands. That doesn't mean they do things in a vacuum because they're pure evil.

 

[Magwik]

It's tired as hell.

Having Hitler as a mechbot final boss is amazing, but the "soldiers of _____ nation are evil, feel good about stabbing them in the neck!" thing always makes me uncomfortable.

Russians, Germans, Koreans, Afghanis... having them as adversaries in a videogame is fine, but glorifying violence against any in particular seems to go directly against what real soldiers experienced in war - I doubt many came back full of glee about what they did and saw.

Dude, it's fucking nazi's

like it can't get any more black and white than that

 

[Jeff6851]

It's tired as hell.

Having Hitler as a mechbot final boss is amazing, but the "soldiers of _____ nation are evil, feel good about stabbing them in the neck!" thing always makes me uncomfortable.

Russians, Germans, Koreans, Afghanis... having them as adversaries in a videogame is fine, but glorifying violence against any in particular seems to go directly against what real soldiers experienced in war - I doubt many came back full of glee about what they did and saw.

The difference is Nazis deserved to die in brutal ways. Soviets (pre end of WWII), Koreans and Afghanis were fighting imperialism and glorifying killing those groups is typical American propaganda.

Also, make me a Red Army soldier fighting the Nazis or Chinese soldier fighting the Kuomintang or Japanese and I'll buy it day 1.

 

[Toa TAK]

The difference is Nazis deserved to die in brutal ways. Soviets (pre end of WWII), Koreans and Afghanis were fighting imperialism and glorifying killing those groups is typical American propaganda.

Also, make me a Red Army soldier fighting the Nazis

Call of Duty?

Though I'd love to see a game where you play as the Chinese against the Japanese earlier in the war.

 

[FinalAres]

There is literally zero reason to show cultural sensitivity to THE FRIGGIN NAZIS.

If you're judging a guy who used to be in the nazi party based on that rather than the person he is, okay that's not great.

But no one is saying "you should respect my right to be a nazi". The nazi party were evil. There's nothing wrong with killing fictional representations of them.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Hmm, now that I think about it I think I read that on an axishistory forum. So what I (and Izuna) said is prob not reliable.

It's ok, I was laying a trap anyway.

The claim and ones like it originate from books like On Killing (Grossman) which are in turn heavily based on the work of S.L.A. Marshall, who conducted interviews for the US army in the Second World War and came to some widely publicized conclusions. The most widely publicized statistics from Marshall were ones like "75% of soldiers never fired their weapon with the intent to kill". Such statistics are the bedrock of subsequent books on the subject, but it won't shock you to learn that they're also heavily criticized. Sometimes criticized for failing to distinguish between reasons for not firing (e.g. some not firing because they couldn't find targets, or only firing at an area to suppress which is something men were trained to do in some situations), sometimes criticized for methodology, or in extreme cases some arguing that his stats were made up in part or whole.

For me the biggest problems are twofold. The first is that nobody else has replicated anything close to those numbers. Grossman in On Killing makes reference to studies from the 19th century regarding musket fire, but it's used in a pretty disingenuous way. He says something like "these 19th century studies first identified soldiers harmlessly firing over people's heads", but if you go back and look at them what they actually say is that soldiers, when trying to fire as fast as possible, are horrible at aiming and often failed to level their rifles properly. The remedy to this as identified in that era was volley fire, which gave people the time to properly aim. Another example is a discussion on Civil War battlefield statistics, which found that a very high portion of rifles collected frmo the battlefield were loaded, and sometimes double-loaded. The conclusion he draws is that these people did not want to fire. However other obvious explanations exist, such as "they got killed before they had a chance to fire the currently loaded bullet" and "their weapon misfired" (some weapons of this era specifically were notably unreliable).

The second reason is that it implies that on average, two soldiers encountering each other were deliberately trying to not kill each other. And that when large groups of people were encountering the enemy, most of them were so disgusted by the thought of killing that they were happy to die rather than open fire on the enemy. They certainly didn't believe or know that 75% of the enemy wouldn't fire on them (if true), since Marshall's information was a shocking revelation. We are basically forced to conclude that if the Marshall ratios were really true (i.e. that 75% of people refused to try to kill), for thousands of years nobody ever noticed that most people just go into combat and die because they have an intrinsic human objection to killing. It wasn't worth mentioning, fundamentally.

 

[CHC]

Agreed. I think it's the combination of awesome aesthetics (got to admit their shit looked cool, they were very image-conscious), undeniable evil and racism, and a smug smarminess which is often humorous and hatable.

 

[BebopMcJigglypuff]

The difference is Nazis deserved to die in brutal ways. Soviets (pre end of WWII), Koreans and Afghanis were fighting imperialism and glorifying killing those groups is typical American propaganda.

Also, make me a Red Army soldier fighting the Nazis or Chinese soldier fighting the Kuomintang or Japanese and I'll buy it day 1.

I'm pretty sure the millions dead from the Soviets (preww2), Koreans, and Chinese had nothing to do with fighting imperialism. Honestly I'd be as terrified of communism becoming popular in my country as nazism.

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

are.. are people really trying to defend fictional representations of nazi's?
for real?

Agreed. I think it's the combination of awesome aesthetics (got to admit their shit looked cool, they were very image-conscious), undeniable evil and racism, and a smug smarminess which is often humorous and hatable.

yep, thats a part i often think gets overlooked, they are just so damn self assured in their horrible world view that taking them down a peg (read: brutal murder) can be really cathartic.

 

[Montresor]

Hey OP, what you been up to?

OP: "Shooting, stabbing, strangling Nazis."

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

I'm pretty sure the millions dead from the Soviets (preww2), Koreans, and Chinese had nothing to do with fighting imperialism. Honestly I'd be as terrified of communism becoming popular in my country as nazism.

Listen if you want to give me a shooter where I'm a Finn defending the frontier from the Red Army I'm down with that. I'm shocked Sniper Elite hasn't gone there yet.

 

[mortal]

Wolfenstein says hi.

If that was supposed to sway my opinion, it definitely didn't work...

 

[Krakin]

I'd prefer to have a go at plantation owners and transatlantic slave traders.

 

[BebopMcJigglypuff]

Listen if you want to give me a shooter where I'm a Finn defending the frontier from the Red Army I'm down with that. I'm shocked Sniper Elite hasn't gone there yet.

I would like that too, but it's not exactly surprising that America tends not to be the enemy in mostly American made games. I don't really think any of video game "enemies" are automatically purely evil vs purely American propaganda. The wolfenstein nazis are almost comically evil, I just think it's funny that people see this stuff in black and white along the lines that they do. (I love killing nazis myself...)

 

[TheRedSnifit]

I would like that too, but it's not exactly surprising that America tends not to be the enemy in mostly American made games. I don't really think any of video game "enemies" are automatically purely evil vs purely American propaganda. The wolfenstein nazis are almost comically evil, I just think it's funny that people see this stuff in black and white along the lines that they do. (I love killing nazis myself...)

The Red Army was the Soviets, right?

 

[BebopMcJigglypuff]

The Red Army was the Soviets, right?

Yes. The 2nd half of that sentence and beyond was sort of a non sequitur about other posts in the thread.

 

[Rated-Rsuperstar]

Ive been waiting years for this glorious nazi killing revival. This fall I get to shoot OG nazis (cod ww2), space nazi (Battlefront 2), and retro futuristic nazis (Wolfenstein TNC). Aww yeah.

 

[NewGame]

I want to shoot bullets into anyone I disagree with

 

[CHC]

If that was supposed to sway my opinion, it definitely didn't work...

If you think Nazis winning the war and then taking over America (and the fucking moon) with robotic dogs and mutated mech soldiers, erecting massive brutalist superstructures, and then smugly commenting on how much they LOVE strawberry milkshakes is boring and generic, I don't know what to tell you man.

 

[Oneself]

Zombies are easy to kill for the same reasons Nazis are.

Now if we just put the two together...

It makes the 3 awesome games contained in Zombie Army Trilogy.

 

[CrimsonGun]

Mark my words

This will be the best shooter of the generation

Single player experience? Sure but for me the "best shooter of the generation" has to go to a game that has a great single AND multiplayer experience.

 

[Q8D3vil]

Maybe, but from what i read about the mongols they seem to be a huge contender.

 

[Gnome Scat]

If that was supposed to sway my opinion, it definitely didn't work...

May not be for everyone, but it certainly isn't generic.

 

[Izuna]

Single player experience? Sure but for me the "best shooter of the generation" has to go to a game that has a great single AND multiplayer experience.

No it doesn't.

😘

 

[Foxy the Fox]

I don't know. Nazis, Communists, Arabs, Africans, Koreans, Chinese... It get's boring... I'd like to be from one of these factions at least once and face Americans or Allies "the good guys" as the enemy. But we all know it won't happen... studios won't withstand the backlash from way too many easily offended folks during these days.

Has this been made before?

 

[Jeff6851]

I'm pretty sure the millions dead from the Soviets (preww2), Koreans, and Chinese had nothing to do with fighting imperialism. Honestly I'd be as terrified of communism becoming popular in my country as nazism.

What about the millions dead because of capitalism?

And I'm assuming you're from the US, Canada or Western Europe so everything you know about communism can be traced back to two sources: The Black Book of Communism (which set its goal and showing 100m were killed and went from there) or CIA funded research. Were things perfect? No but there's a reason old Russian people love Stalin and Chinese people love Mao.

 

[duckroll]

Are things perfect now? No but there's a reason why old Republicans love Trump!

 

[Jeff6851]

Are things perfect now? No but there's a reason why old Republicans love Trump!

Yep, increasing life expectancy, having a home, education, healthcare and food for the first time is the same as being able to buy another mansion.