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[Leynos]

Man, can you imagine Atari Jaguar games being re-issued for the system? Aliens vs. Predator, Doom, Cannonfodder, Iron Soldier 1 and 2....

I'd be willing to give Battlesphere, Tempest 2000, and Iron Soldier 1, and 2 a go. However, I feel that Aliens vs. Predator, while neat, is too long in the tooth.

What about some Jaguar homebrew? Isn't that scene still going pretty strong?

And having Shantae on cart would be an instant buy for me as it is $20 on the 3DS digital store!

 

[Prosopon]

So they are making a new console that is 16-bit? The post modern era is so weird.

 

[Feel_The_Pain]

I wish the creators and developers all the best on this project, and hope it succeeds.
ive never pledged anything to kickstarter but I'll keep a keen eye on this with intent to pledge . Good luck.

Edit. Do the controllers have to be wired

 

[NoFaceNico]

Edit. Do the controllers have to be wired

Yes, they're going with wired because that controller has a notoriously unreliable wireless connection. Wired is a way to side step that issue and they say it adds to the whole "retro" experience this console is aiming for.

 

[Feel_The_Pain]

Yes, they're going with wired because that controller has a notoriously unreliable wireless connection. Wired is a way to side step that issue and they say it adds to the whole "retro" experience this console is aiming for.

Yeah I guess the whole "retro experience" is valid and the reason behind all this. My damn tv is not close though lol.

 

[Khaz]

Edit. Do the controllers have to be wired

Wireless means lag. You may not notice it on your modern consoles because a massive amount of lag is also added by your TV, but wireless isn't good for the experience. Unless we're talking about Infrared, but I don't think you want that either.

 

[xDUMPWEEDx]

This console needs a DOOM port. I've owned DOOM on practically every console since the SNES.

 

[Vinnk]

I would love to own Shantae and Pier Solar on physical media. I hate when digital download is the only way to acquire a game. I was going to try to spring for the Mega Drive version of PS but now I think I'll wait for the Retro version.

I would also love some of WayForwards other games. I still haven't had a chance to play their Wonder Momo reboot.

 

[Decider]

Wireless means lag. You may not notice it on your modern consoles because a massive amount of lag is also added by your TV, but wireless isn't good for the experience. Unless we're talking about Infrared, but I don't think you want that either.

To be fair, some TV manufacturers have been addressing the issue of reducing input lag rather well. Whether or not a screen has "massive" amounts of lag now is down to research, selection and calibration.

Wired is preferable to me anyway, as I lose patience with having to recharge wireless controllers and put up with batteries slowly dying over time.

 

[RPGCrazied]

Will this thing have exclusives or not? Most of the launch ones you can already play or will on steam/some consoles out now.

 

[Vinnk]

To be fair, some TV manufacturers have been addressing the issue of reducing input lag rather well. Whether or not a screen has "massive" amounts of lag now is down to research, selection and calibration.

Wired is preferable to me anyway, as I lose patience with having to recharge wireless controllers and put up with batteries slowly dying over time.

Yup. The older those controllers get, the less of a charge the rechargeable batteries hold. I wish I had a wired solution for the PS3. Well I guess I could just leave them plugged in via USB.

 

[Slermy]

I would love to own Shantae and Pier Solar on physical media. I hate when digital download is the only way to acquire a game. I was going to try to spring for the Mega Drive version of PS but now I think I'll wait for the Retro version.

I would also love some of WayForwards other games. I still haven't had a chance to play their Wonder Momo reboot.

Getting Wayforward on board with this would be huge!

Regarding Pier Solar though, that was originally a Genesis / Mega Drive game anyway and there's also a physical Dreamcast port (don't know if that's actually out yet). So you have physical options for that one already.

 

[NoFaceNico]

Yup. The older those controllers get, the less of a charge the rechargeable batteries hold. I wish I had a wired solution for the PS3. Well I guess I could just leave them plugged in via USB.

I haven't had an issue with my PS3 controllers but if it gets that bad, you could just replace the battery inside. It is removable and a replacement is about $8 online.

 

[Feel_The_Pain]

Actually, id like to know the length of the controller cables.

 

[Vinnk]

I haven't had an issue with my PS3 controllers but if it gets that bad, you could just replace the battery inside. It is removable and a replacement is about $8 online.

Thanks for the link. I might actually do that. I use them for PC gaming too so they have been through a lot of charge cycles.

But yeah, I am OK with wired controllers for the Retro as long as the cables aren't really short.

 

[Dreamwriter]

Regarding Pier Solar though, that was originally a Genesis / Mega Drive game anyway and there's also a physical Dreamcast port (don't know if that's actually out yet). So you have physical options for that one already.

You mean you *had* physical options Like most retro cartridges, they only manufactured a small amount in a limited run since it costs so much to get them manufactured; the carts are no longer available for purchase. Dreamcast isn't available yet.

 

[emb]

You mean you *had* physical options Like most retro cartridges, they only manufactured a small amount in a limited run since it costs so much to get them manufactured; the carts are no longer available for purchase. Dreamcast isn't available yet.

Well the Genesis carts still exist somewhere. Still an option. Just probably not an easy one. That's one of the nice things about physical media. It can get absurdly rare or expensive, but for a good while copies probably won't cease to exist, even for small runs.

 

[Tempy]

Hmm...wonder how much Pier Solar goes on EBay nowadays.

 

[Slermy]

You mean you *had* physical options Like most retro cartridges, they only manufactured a small amount in a limited run since it costs so much to get them manufactured; the carts are no longer available for purchase. Dreamcast isn't available yet.

As "emb" said though, you can still track them down if you have the cash. Also, they've reprinted it a few times now, who's to say there wont' be another down the line?

I do get your point though, it can be frustrating to not have a reasonably priced option. There are a few retro games I'd love to have but are commanding ridiculous prices.

 

[Tempy]

New video - https://www.facebook.com/RETROVGS/videos/870963662972905/

 

[ultrazilla]

New video - https://www.facebook.com/RETROVGS/videos/870963662972905/

Freaking love it! It will be so satisfying being able to buy a cartridge and insert it into the cartridge slot and play it.

My growing concern now is how much they're gonna need for the Kickstarter. I think 1 million is way too much as they already have the tool dies/molds.

I'd be happy to see a $100,000 to $250,000 goal which will hopefully be surpassed. What does everyone else think?

We should be getting some good footage of games and possibly tons of new game announcements as they're doing a major retro show this weekend and panel!

The RETRO VGS
Mike Kennedy — Publisher RETRO Magazine

The RETRO Video Game System is the first cartridge-based console in twenty years. Hear from Mike what the system is all about, what they have planned for it, and what games will be released for it.

What does it take to make a new console? Who's all involved with this? Mike will discuss all the details about this new console.

http://azgameonexpo.com/

 

[dancrane212]

So just listening to the VGS panel it sounds like they are going to use masked roms for bigger games they know will sell and standard flash memory (20 years) for smaller titles and give folk a heads up that the carts are running via flash.

@16:30

I wonder what changed that is allowing them to use masked roms for carts?

 

[NoFaceNico]

I can't imagine much changed. Maybe just buying in bulk. But the change was expected. I said it before, the plan to make the bigger games some sort of mini-disk HDD was absurd.

 

[Theonik]

I wonder what changed that is allowing them to use masked roms for carts?

Nothing really, it was always a cost problem which mostly affected very niche games. I do wonder whether even these larger games can be profitable like that.

 

[A Black Falcon]

New video - https://www.facebook.com/RETROVGS/videos/870963662972905/

So I just watched this. It's a good video, but I do have a couple of concerns.

First, will it really be only standard flash and not the 100-year flash they talked about before, for games that use that? I mean, the masked ROM news is fantastic and I'm excited about that, but 20-year flash is nothing special, why buy this system just to play games on that kind of media?

And second, if I heard that right, Mike Kennedy says that the price on Kickstarter will probably be 'above $300' for a system, which is pretty expensive. They even say that it might be more for kickstarter backers than for people who buy one later, which doesn't sound great even if they do have some reasons. I know that the kickstarter will have exclusive system colors which presumably will only be available there, but still... that's asking a lot.

 

[emb]

So I just watched this. It's a good video, but I do have a couple of concerns.

First, will it really be only standard flash and not the 100-year flash they talked about before, for games that use that? I mean, the masked ROM news is fantastic and I'm excited about that, but 20-year flash is nothing special, why buy this system just to play games on that kind of media?

And second, if I heard that right, Mike Kennedy says that the price on Kickstarter will probably be 'above $300' for a system, which is pretty expensive. They even say that it might be more for kickstarter backers than for people who buy one later, which doesn't sound great even if they do have some reasons. I know that the kickstarter will have exclusive system colors which presumably will only be available there, but still... that's asking a lot.

Eeeeh, sounds like reality is setting in.

I was hoping for the 100-200 range for the system via KS, a bit more for the special colors.

Was also expecting all the games to last longer than me, on average. Knowing I should only expect 20 years kinda kills the fun. Hopefully enough games get the better tech, so the normal flash stuff doesn't thin the library out too badly.

 

[grendelrt]

So I just watched this. It's a good video, but I do have a couple of concerns.

First, will it really be only standard flash and not the 100-year flash they talked about before, for games that use that? I mean, the masked ROM news is fantastic and I'm excited about that, but 20-year flash is nothing special, why buy this system just to play games on that kind of media?

And second, if I heard that right, Mike Kennedy says that the price on Kickstarter will probably be 'above $300' for a system, which is pretty expensive. They even say that it might be more for kickstarter backers than for people who buy one later, which doesn't sound great even if they do have some reasons. I know that the kickstarter will have exclusive system colors which presumably will only be available there, but still... that's asking a lot.

I am all for this system, but over 300? Come on......

 

[gnomed]

Man, first time hearing this. And it's expected to be around $300, I has a sad.

 

[NoFaceNico]

To reiterate what Black Falcon said and what was said in the panel, the console will cost "north of $300" and in the follow up interview he says "$300 to $400."

I applaud them for being honest, but this is what a lot of people feared and what some critics expected. It's a huge issue because before it was just a cheap hobby system "for collectors" but one thing I can tell you is that collectors love getting a good deal above all else and this seems to be moving away from that. It also wasn't meant to compete with current gen consoles and yes, I get it, they're still not going toe-to-toe with the big three but for $300+ I don't care if you're selling an Etch-a-Sketch, consumers are going to compare you to current gen consoles because that's what they can get instead.

This console is now in serious need of cost cutting. They try to rationalize this with the idea that it will get cheaper the more they sell and Kickstarter backers will just be expected to have to pay more, but that's outrageous. You back the product and in exchange for risking your money, you are "rewarded" with getting the product first and getting a good deal on it. It's worth noting that a lot of consoles these days sell at a loss initially because they want their price to create an install base early on and they'll make up the difference in game sales- give away the razor and sell the blades.

 

[Bar81]

To reiterate what Black Falcon said and what was said in the panel, the console will cost "north of $300" and in the follow up interview he says "$300 to $400."

I applaud them for being honest, but this is what a lot of people feared and what some critics expected. It's a huge issue because before it was just a cheap hobby system "for collectors" but one thing I can tell you is that collectors love getting a good deal above all else and this seems to be moving away from that. It also wasn't meant to compete with current gen consoles and yes, I get it, they're still not going toe-to-toe with the big three but for $300+ I don't care if you're selling an Etch-a-Sketch, consumers are going to compare you to current gen consoles because that's what they can get instead.

This console is now in serious need of cost cutting. They try to rationalize this with the idea that it will get cheaper the more they sell and Kickstarter backers will just be expected to have to pay more, but that's outrageous. You back the product and in exchange for risking your money, you are "rewarded" with getting the product first and getting a good deal on it. It's worth noting that a lot of consoles these days sell at a loss initially because they want their price to create an install base early on and they'll make up the difference in game sales- give away the razor and sell the blades.

Wow. They've completely lost their minds if they think this will be a success at a pricepoint of $300-400 (I don't even want a PS4/XB1 but given that price either of those would be where I would put my money if I have to choose). It probably also explains in large part why no publisher with a working brain is supporting this thing. As you said, I think there needs to be a serious rethink about included features and general cost-cutting as the pricepoint needs to be $200 *at most* for this thing to have a chance (maybe $250 for LEs), particularly since it's KS and not a refundable preorder if the whole thing never gets off the ground (which is looking more likely by the day). My interest is gone if this is how they choose to proceed.

 

[Occam]

It's still being kickstarted? 4 months of it being kickstarted. Longest kickstarter ever.

 

[coughlanio]

I'm involved with a fan site that's starting up around the RETRO VGS. I may be a little 'biased', so keep that in mind.

$300 is a lot of money to ask, BUT, if you look at what they're putting into the system, it's a fair amount, and about comparable to other products on the market (albeit hobbyist market) like the MIST. Saying that, $300 is a lot to ask of gamers, and especially retro gamers, who are historically known as thrifty people.

With a high price point, and without well-known developer support, Mike is going to have a real hard time getting this off the ground. If they believe in the success of the system, they're going to need to put their money where their mouth is, and sell the system at a loss at the very least. If they don't have the numbers, there's no way in hell they can reduce the cost before going to market.

I'm very hopeful for the system, but it's a big ask.

 

[coughlanio]

Actually, id like to know the length of the controller cables.

They're going to be 8ft long, or at the very least, whatever the USB spec allows them to be.

 

[SegaShack]

Wow. I thought it would be in the 100-150 range. North of 300? Holy shit. Forget that.

Listen I love this idea and I love the fact that they have things like an RGB out for people like me who own PVMs, but no way am I looking to drop that much on this unproven company's first console that only has a few games coming out for it.

 

[PaulExcellent]

$300+?
What.
No way. I can't afford that, especially if most games can be played on PC.
I was expecting $150 or something. >.>

 

[Leynos]

Yeesh, $300-$400 is a hard pill to swallow on an unproven developer. Two hundred, sure. Hell, even $250 for a special edition, but if the price actually ends up being that expensive, then this has no hope.

That price needs to come down. It indeed looks like reality is coming down hard on Mike, and co. They really need to cut features to bring the price down. I don't know what as I am not technically savvy, but I really hope the best for them.

 

[fernie417]

How many consoles do you think they need to sell for this to be successful? They must figure that the early adopters are going to be the ones with enough disposible cash to be unfazed by a price tag north of three hundred bucks.

If they set a Kickstarter goal of a million dollars, they'd need near three thousand people to pony up for a console at a price of $350. Is three thousand a lot of people? I don't think that sounds like a crazy out of reach number. I mean, a good number of folks of a certain age who grew up with with Atari and the NES are adults in their late thirties or forties by now, with stable jobs. I'm sure some number of them still play games, and a subset of those play classic games and collect them; there must be some tiny fraction of those that wouldn't flinch at the price and be totally into it. The same dudes buying aluminum encased Famicoms for five-hundred. There must be at least three thousand of them.

But I wonder how many Retros do they need to sell to be successful? Is porting games to a system with an install base in the thousands a feasible thing to do? Selling to a fraction of a fraction of a fraction? Maybe if the team is small enough, and the premium of selling a physical thing for a physical price makes up the difference and the numbers do work? Perhaps some indie developers would just get a kick out of having a physical thing and don't care. I don't know, I'm no business guy.

Of course they're going to drop the price for "normal" people eventually, but then I don't think normal people invest in Kickstarters in the first place. Normal people don't care about hooking up a console to a CRT via an RGB output. If they need some amount of money to get the ball rolling, then so be it. They can start with the price high, they're aiming for some sort of long-tail niche market with this. It's not like there's going to be a Retro2 in five or six years. What's the rush?

 

[ultrazilla]

Wow. North of $300?

I hope they have some "killer apps"
and packages...

 

[coughlanio]

How many consoles do you think they need to sell for this to be successful? They must figure that the early adopters are going to be the ones with enough disposible cash to be unfazed by a price tag north of three hundred bucks.

If they set a Kickstarter goal of a million dollars, they'd need near three thousand people to pony up for a console at a price of $350. Is three thousand a lot of people? I don't think that sounds like a crazy out of reach number. I mean, a good number of folks of a certain age who grew up with with Atari and the NES are adults in their late thirties or forties by now, with stable jobs. I'm sure some number of them still play games, and a subset of those play classic games and collect them; there must be some tiny fraction of those that wouldn't flinch at the price and be totally into it. The same dudes buying aluminum encased Famicoms for five-hundred. There must be at least three thousand of them.

But I wonder how many Retros do they need to sell to be successful? Is porting games to a system with an install base in the thousands a feasible thing to do? Selling to a fraction of a fraction of a fraction? Maybe if the team is small enough, and the premium of selling a physical thing for a physical price makes up the difference and the numbers do work? Perhaps some indie developers would just get a kick out of having a physical thing and don't care. I don't know, I'm no business guy.

Of course they're going to drop the price for "normal" people eventually, but then I don't think normal people invest in Kickstarters in the first place. Normal people don't care about hooking up a console to a CRT via an RGB output. If they need some amount of money to get the ball rolling, then so be it. They can start with the price high, they're aiming for some sort of long-tail niche market with this. It's not like there's going to be a Retro2 in five or six years. What's the rush?

A lot of the developers already announced are used to selling games in volumes of a couple of hundred cartridges, developers such as CollectorVision games, and Todd Holcomb over at AtariAge, so opening a market for them to sell games to a bigger audience, even if that audience is only 3000 people would be enough to at least get them interested.

I just fired off an email to Mike there, we'll see if anything comes from it. I'm also in talks with developers, just feeling out where they're at with the system. There's a lot of positivity, but also a lot of 'wait-and-see' attitude.

3000 units to bank $1 Million isn't a tall order to be fair. I will *probably* back it, but it all depends on what, if any, incentives are given to backers. Gold cartridges may not be enough I'm afraid.

 

[ultrazilla]

Has he hinted at what the kickstarter goal will be?

I personally think over $300 is too much for the system but will still wait to see what kind of
package tiers they're going to offer. If it's "north of
$300" but comes with six games, I'd probably bite.

They're really gonna have to sell this hard.

 

[coughlanio]

Has he hinted at what the kickstarter goal will be?

I personally think over $300 is too much for the system but will still wait to see what kind of
package tiers they're going to offer. If it's "north of
$300" but comes with six games, I'd probably bite.

They're really gonna have to sell this hard.

I've emailed Mike for clarification on exactly that. I can easily imagine a $1 Million target.

We know for sure it's coming with Adventures of the Tiny Knight as a pack in. If they do indeed decide to go for $300 or over, they need to add as much as they can to sweeten the pot.

 

[Bboy AJ]

Terrible idea for a niche audience. Smh at having KS backers take the brunt of initial costs by charging them more.

 

[Feel_The_Pain]

North of (US) $300.
Well, that killed the hype. Sad.

 

[Deleted member 74300]

Not even Shantae could make me pay $300 for such a thing.

 

[gundalf]

At 300$ no Indie-devs will tinker with this. After the initial release, only the usual Rretro-Homebrew devs would develop games for this - but those are games that most don't care or would even see as worthwhile. So where is the appeal in a 300$ console with no games?

 

[Bboy AJ]

I'm kind of happy to see this rubbish fail. I'm tired of people begging on KS for shitty ideas using anti backer practices. It's not a free lunch.

 

[ultrazilla]

At 47:20 of the panel is where Mike announces the price to be "north of $300".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-FZwjaApW4&list=FLSJ_VYnVRkX486nT737hX8w

If you're concerned about that price, let them know! I posted on their wall regarding the high price. https://www.facebook.com/RETROVGS

I suggested they lower the price on the console and just bump up the funding goal.

 

[dancrane212]

At 47:20 of the panel is where Mike announces the price to be "north of $300".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-FZwjaApW4&list=FLSJ_VYnVRkX486nT737hX8w

If you're concerned about that price, let them know! I posted on their wall regarding the high price. https://www.facebook.com/RETROVGS

I suggested they lower the price on the console and just bump up the funding goal.

Love that reply from a Facebook user.

Robert...you are not just buying a console. You are buying a lifetime of entertainment with an ongoing flow of great new retro games produced by a viable company. It goes way beyond the price of a console. What you are getting is a great bargain when viewed in the broader context.

Whatever floats people's boat but $300+ is going to be a hard sell for most folk out there who could be interested in this. Guess the success/failure of the system depends on the momentum the campaign gets when it launches - how many of the above commenters actually show-up.

 

[Dreamwriter]

$300 is pricey, but what's with people complaining that Kickstarterers shouldn't pledge more than consumers will pay? Kickstarter isn't a preorder system, it's a way for consumers to help products come to market. Like Mike in the video said, if he went to a bank or investor asking for the money to build a cartridge-based system, they'd laugh in his face. So he's going to the people who would actually use the thing and asking us to help out.

If you think the Retro VGS is something you'd want, then you pledge enough to help make it happen; pledging more than the price of the end-product is par for the course. I for example pledged $170 for Volgarr the Viking's Kickstarter, that's a $10 game (that even came out on Games for Gold for free for a month), but if people didn't pledge enough then it wouldn't have been ever available at any price, and that would have been a tragedy. I pledged $60 for Bloodstained, over $300 for Shroud of the Avatar, because if I didnt do so I might not have the option to buy them for cheaper later (and for that extra money I got some fun swag).

 

[stan423321]

Yeah, I gotta agree with the general sentiment over here... I'm not sure how are they going to justify 300$. Probably collector's value, but I'm not in for that.

If you think the Retro VGS is something you'd want, then you pledge enough to help make it happen; pledging more than the price of the end-product is par for the course. I for example pledged $170 for Volgarr the Viking's Kickstarter, that's a $10 game (that even came out on Games for Gold for free for a month), but if people didn't pledge enough then it wouldn't have been ever available at any price, and that would have been a tragedy. I pledged $60 for Bloodstained, over $300 for Shroud of the Avatar, because if I didnt do so I might not have the option to buy them for cheaper later.

No, that's not how you do Kickstarters.

Volgarr, for example, allowed people to pledge 10$ for an initially 10$ game. You pledged more, you got more stuff (merch, I guess). In fact some people are starting to consider KS prices lower than initial ones for general consumer, as a means of partially compensating the fact that regular investor would receive a profit while KS user won't. Doing it the other way around is absolutely crazy.