Support NeoGAF

[slackboy72]

I have a 750gb in my slim. It's half full of movies and football games going back to 2008 (where my team won of course).
Only got 108gb left.
If you have a laptop that's just for net duties you could slam the 16gb (assuming it's a SSD) in that.

 

[patsu]

So is this basically saying I can use a [Sony] TV's native UI to control my Playstation?
i.e. Connecting a Playstation would present additional UI options.

That would be more seamless interface than the current CEC method, but would it need new hardware or simply new software?

*shrug* Sony has been working on their nextgen TV platform to save the TV division. So I wouldn't be surprised if this is just a simple effort to integrate PS3 better with their TVs.

If the 16Gb PS3 does indeed exist, then Sony is probably looking at it as a simple, cheap, upgradable PS3 streaming Blu-ray player, for bundling with their TVs too.


In my dream, I hope they allow us to run games in parallel on 2 PS3s (1 regular PS3, and 1 16Gb PS3). e.g., With this CEC patent, browse game library on PS3 #1 HDD and BR drive while using PS3 #2. Cache game from PS3 #1 to PS3 #2, then run the soup'ed up game (e.g., GT5) on both boxes.

The other way is to stream it Gaikai/RemotePlay-style from 1 Sony device to another over the home network.

This is just a wild idea though. I doubt Sony will do that because it needs a lot of software investment. Corporate Sony is probably looking at the next tier of customers, for easy money. ^_^

 

[onQ123]

Configurable PlayStation Move Patent that was filed in 2009 has been updated today
& with the New PlayStation Slim set to be unveiled next Month this has me thinking could Sony be planning to sell the New PlayStation Slim with the Move Controller as the standard controls like Nintendo did 6 years ago when they updated the GameCube with new controls & new features as the Wii. or maybe this will just be the PlayStation Move for the PS4.

 

[patsu]

Are these the new images ? They were missing from the original patent ?

It looks like they are exploring DS3 + Move controller combos.

 

[onQ123]

Are these the new images ? They were missing from the original patent ?

It looks like they are exploring DS3 + Move controller combos.

some of the images appear to be new.

 

[Onion_Relish]

No way in hell a motion controller would be the primary interface for the next generation. Sony has seen low penetration with its own motion controller and the Wii u is coming out with a tablet as well as a regular controller. I want to own a ps4 but as twitch from the matrix said: "not like this, not like this"

 

[patsu]

The new drawings try to combine Move with a regular DS3 so it's one controller for all.

It looks ridiculous though. Doubt they will mass produce these prototypes.

 

[NateDrake]

That looks terrible.

 

[shinra-bansho]

They need to design a DualShock that breaks into two motion controllers, without the stupid glowing ball.

 

[patsu]

They need to design a DualShock that breaks into two motion controllers, without the stupid glowing ball.

Yes... perhaps make the balls detachable.

Some motion games don't use them anyway.

 

[onQ123]

No way in hell a motion controller would be the primary interface for the next generation. Sony has seen low penetration with its own motion controller and the Wii u is coming out with a tablet as well as a regular controller. I want to own a ps4 but as twitch from the matrix said: "not like this, not like this"

I said the standard controller for the New PS3 Slim. & it wouldn't be just a motion controller because the controller has buttons.

 

[CorrisD]

They need to design a DualShock that breaks into two motion controllers, without the stupid glowing ball.

Don't they have a patent for just that?

 

[hirokazu]

That looks terrible.

All of SCE's patents tend to look terrible.

 

[amar212]

Yes... perhaps make the balls detachable.

Some motion games don't use them anyway.

 

[Blablurn]

is it bad that i kinda like that?

 

[mrklaw]

Aren't the glowy balls just because they wanted to reuse the pseye? For a new system they can release a new camera (with dedicated connector or USB 3) and build in whatever is needed to get rid of the balls. Eg copy wii with camera/IR LEDs or something else

 

[hirokazu]

The wouldn't work. The PlayStation Eye camera needs to track the glowing spheres unimpeded. It uses the size of the sphere to judge distance from the camera. Putting them there would mean it's partially obscured by the shoulder buttons all the time and also by the player's hands most of the time.

 

[jeff_rigby]

some of the images appear to be new.

There are new configurations. No one reading the patent? Edit: I didn't read the old patent and compare. Shame on me, TTP pointed this out below. What has changed to justify republishing the patent?

There are descriptions that are indicating use with Different a new camera(s). Camera exposure settings and variable intensity of the LED lighting. Smaller rubber and detachable rubber bulbs would indicate higher res and depth camera use. Not needing LED lighting in another just recognition of a color and size, again better camera.

As said before and applies more in this case; this is an ?updated patent? for the Move controllers that could be used with the current camera and with a newer camera. It does not indicate anything beyond possibly multiple configurations that might work with both new and old cameras. That it is published now just gives weight to a new updated camera for the PS3. It could be a depth camera but that is less likely.

Joystick, Basic and Pointer mode. Holding it like a Pen or brush. Like a joystick with bottom against a horizontal surface. Smaller bulb (higher res camera). Use from sitting position rather than in a 7-10 foot zone from camera.

 

[jeff_rigby]

onQ123 is finding 5:1 more than I am <grin>. Anyone also notice that since Nov 2011 the number of PUBLISHED patents has increased MASSIVELY. From as early as 2009 Patent filings are now being published. To me this means that hardware and Software standards are in place or coming soon to support something that has been planned for many years, since 2008 maybe <grin>.

Also anyone notice that Microsoft is advertising Explorer.....ties in with Explorer in Xbox which is coming this year but when?

 

[Canis lupus]

Sony should stop with the Move and make their own camera like Leap Motion, a universal device you can use to control both your Bravia, PS3 and Vaio laptops. So much potential Sony. You dont have to copy what MS is doing with Kinect and half integrate them in games.

 

[TTP]

There are new configurations. No one reading the patent?

There are descriptions that are indicating use with a new camera. Camera exposure settings and variable intensity of the LED lighting. Smaller rubber and detachable rubber bulbs would indicate higher res and depth camera use. Not needing LED lighting in another just recognition of a color and size, again better camera.

As said before and applies more in this case; this is an updated patent for the Move controllers that could be used with the current camera and with a newer camera. It does not indicate anything beyond possibly multiple new configurations that might work with both new and old camera. That it is published now just gives weight to a new updated camera for the PS3. It could be a depth camera but that is less likely.

Joystick, Basic and Pointer mode. Holding it like a Pen or brush. Like a joystick with bottom against a horizontal surface. Smaller bulb (higher res camera). Use from sitting position rather than in a 7-10 foot zone from camera.

I have yet to read the actual text, but all images appear to be exactly the same as the ones published in the 2009 patent.

 

[Shiggy]

Configurable PlayStation Move Patent that was filed in 2009 has been updated today
& with the New PlayStation Slim set to be unveiled next Month this has me thinking could Sony be planning to sell the New PlayStation Slim with the Move Controller as the standard controls like Nintendo did 6 years ago when they updated the GameCube with new controls & new features as the Wii. or maybe this will just be the PlayStation Move for the PS4.

Remind me of posting more of those 2009 Move concepts later.

 

[jeff_rigby]

I have yet to read the actual text, but all images appear to be exactly the same as the ones published in the 2009 patent.

Your right, and much of the text I was citing is the same also so what has changed? Relied on memory again...should know not to do that, the text is lawyer talk and hard to follow.

So publishing for advertising effect or is there a update in the patent?

 

[Danj]

Looks like someone mistook GAF photoshops for actual product images.

 

[CorrisD]

Looks like someone mistook GAF photoshops for actual product images.

Yup, some sites got a hold of them and put their watermark on them without knowing they weren't official, and then we had some guys repost them in here, lol.

 

[DigitalOp]

Can somebody tell Sony to add PS2 BC back in this new model so I can buy it please?

 

[CorrisD]

Can somebody tell Sony to add PS2 BC back in this new model so I can buy it please?

Why would they stick more hardware in there when they are trying to make it as cheap as possible?

 

[Brad Grenz]

It's probably reserved storage space for OS things like trophies and data for the app bubbles.

Part of it, sure. The Vita's built in flash is probably divided into partitions. Part for storing system data. Part for storing the firmware itself. Part for saving app states to enable the kind of multitasking Vita is capable of. Part for saving the whole system state when you sleep the Vita. Some amount could even be reserved for future uses.

 

[onQ123]

I have yet to read the actual text, but all images appear to be exactly the same as the ones published in the 2009 patent.

the only difference that I can see right off is that they show the contoller in 2 views on the 1st page.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Looks like someone mistook GAF photoshops for actual product images.

Is Brazil that different from the US that internal photos are not required? FCC requires Test setup and motherboard photos This is not like leaked external photos, this is supposed to be from an official server. So why fuzzy out of focus pictures as these should be Sony provided and why no internal photos of the motherboard which would be nearly impossible to fake.

 

[onQ123]

another reason I believe Sony might be going for a Wii like relaunch of the PS3.


The new Slim is at 190W when the old design was 200W that would mean that the new design is mostly just cosmetic & not much has changed in the inside.

Why would they even waste time redesigning the PS3 just to use the same parts inside of it without removing older parts & saving money by making them smaller & more energy efficient?

& how can they do a more energy efficient redesign & only come away with a savings of 10W on the new Power Supply ?

I think they might have added something unless they are having a real hard time saving energy.

 

[Graphics Horse]

& how can they do a more energy efficient redesign & only come away with a savings of 10W on the new Power Supply ?

They can't obviously.

I think they might have added something unless they are having a real hard time saving energy.

It's ~2/3 the volume and the weight, and should be cheaper to make.

 

[patsu]

There are new configurations. No one reading the patent? Edit: I didn't read the old patent and compare. Shame on me, TTP pointed this out below. What has changed to justify republishing the patent?

Heh heh, I didn't read the original patent too. Something on iOS devices doesn't like the website. I can't see the patent images very well. ^_^

There are descriptions that are indicating use with Different a new camera(s). Camera exposure settings and variable intensity of the LED lighting. Smaller rubber and detachable rubber bulbs would indicate higher res and depth camera use. Not needing LED lighting in another just recognition of a color and size, again better camera.

As said before and applies more in this case; this is an ?updated patent? for the Move controllers that could be used with the current camera and with a newer camera. It does not indicate anything beyond possibly multiple configurations that might work with both new and old cameras. That it is published now just gives weight to a new updated camera for the PS3. It could be a depth camera but that is less likely.

Joystick, Basic and Pointer mode. Holding it like a Pen or brush. Like a joystick with bottom against a horizontal surface. Smaller bulb (higher res camera). Use from sitting position rather than in a 7-10 foot zone from camera.

We have heard rumors of a PSEye followup, possibly HD, since 2 years ago. Perhaps they are wrapping up ?

 

[patsu]

Sony should stop with the Move and make their own camera like Leap Motion, a universal device you can use to control both your Bravia, PS3 and Vaio laptops. So much potential Sony. You dont have to copy what MS is doing with Kinect and half integrate them in games.

LeapMotion looks amazing. But yeah... no point chasing after Kinect. Should aim higher.

 

[TTP]

the only difference that I can see right off is that they show the contoller in 2 views on the 1st page.

Yeah, that's the only one and it isn't much.

Besides, I find it quite unlikely for Sony to release a new Move now because of all the Move peripherals. It wouldn't fit in the SS. It wouldn't fit in the racing wheel, which is yet to be released too.

Nah.

 

[onQ123]

They can't obviously.



It's ~2/3 the volume and the weight, and should be cheaper to make.

& the reasons for it being ~2/3 the volume and the weight should be because they made the chips smaller & more energy efficient making less heat so they can fit it in a smaller case.

maybe the 16GB of on board flash kept the Power Supply Watts up in the new design but I don't think that's enough to keep it from going down more than 10W on a redesign like this.

 

[FLEABttn]

The new Slim is at 190W when the old design was 200W that would mean that the new design is mostly just cosmetic & not much has changed in the inside.

Why would they even waste time redesigning the PS3 just to use the same parts inside of it without removing older parts & saving money by making them smaller & more energy efficient?

& how can they do a more energy efficient redesign & only come away with a savings of 10W on the new Power Supply ?

I think they might have added something unless they are having a real hard time saving energy.

I wouldn't necessarily read into the PSU wattage for a direct translation of energy efficiency.

The CECH-20xxA and CECH-21xxA use the same 250W PSU but the CECH-21xxA uses in upwards of 24 watts less than the CECH-20xxA does.

I don't think the current slim uses much past 80W despite having a 200W PSU.

 

[CorrisD]

I wouldn't necessarily read into the PSU wattage for a direct translation of energy efficiency.

The CECH-20xxA and CECH-21xxA use the same 250W PSU but the CECH-21xxA uses in upwards of 24 watts less than the CECH-20xxA does.

I don't think the current slim uses much past 80W despite having a 200W PSU.

I was going to say the same thing.

I wouldn't directly use the PSU as evidence of anything considering previous models don't really come close to using the 200W currently, as far as I know not since the introduction of the Slim none of the models use over 100.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Back to the new PS3 4000 chassis. Alert in thread title is because of my wild speculation that follows.

A pair of debugging stations are also present in the filing, DECH-4001x and DECH-S4001x, suggesting that Sony is putting at least some new hardware through its paces &#8212; debugging stations are traditionally used when there's been a change to the chips inside. This could indeed be an all-new slimmer model, but is just as likely to be an internal hardware change as Sony continues to cut the console's cost.

Can we say Die size reduction confirmed? (from 40nm to 32nm)

The following is about 32nm SOI chips being produced for "Gaming" among other uses starting in Dec 2011 at IBM and GF foundries. This is too early and at 32nm not the rumored 28nm for PS4 and Xbox720. My guess is WiiU as well as Xbox361 or PS3 4000 chassis or both. Charlie at SimiAccurate stated that he heard Oban using this node size and process was being manufactured for Microsoft. He speculated/heard it was for the Xbox720 which NOW does not seem likely. Here are two links speculating on that IBM Dec 2011 5000 wafer production.

http://venturebeat.com/2012/01/25/rumor-control-xbox-720-chips-in-prototype-production/
http://www.fudzilla.com/processors/item/25619-oban-initial-product-run-is-real

And here are News articles that give us information on the Dec 2011 32nm SOI chip production. IBM and AMD/Global Foundries are partnering on design and production.

http://www.globalfoundries.com/newsr.../20120109.aspx
http://www.advancedsubstratenews.com...ibms-32nm-soi/

The press release put SOI front and center, saying, &#8220;The technology vastly improves microprocessor performance in multi-core designs and speeds the movement of graphics in gaming, networking, and other image intensive, multi-media applications.&#8221; IBM&#8217;s 32nm SOI technology was jointly developed with GF and other members of IBM&#8217;s Process Development Alliance

The companies' 32/28nm technology uses the same "Gate First" approach to High-k Metal Gate (HKMG) that has reached volume production in GLOBALFOUNDRIES' Fab 1 in Dresden, Germany. This approach to HKMG offers higher performance with a 10-20% cost saving over HKMG solutions offered by other foundries, while still providing the full entitlement of scaling from the 45/40nm node.

The release also notes that the chips rolling off this new line feature IBM&#8217;s embedded DRAM (eDRAM). ASN readers will remember that IBM&#8217;s eDRAM guru Subu Iyer, wrote in ASN about the role that SOI plays therein back in 2006. He noted that while eDRAMs had previously been done in bulk silicon, &#8220;The complexity adder is about half in SOI compared to bulk for deep trench based eDRAMs.&#8221;

Interesting, too, that the announcement cites networking, gaming and graphics. IBM, of course, has its own successful SOI foundry business, and owns the high-end gaming market, fabbing SOI-based chips for the big three: Sony PS3, Microsoft Xbox 360 and Nintendo Wii (and the upcoming Wii U).

For its part, GF has all the AMD SOI-based business, including all the Opterons, the FX and the &#8220;A-series&#8221; APUs &#8211; including the upcoming &#8220;Trinity&#8221; for desktops & high-end laptops, with the new Bulldozer core.

My guess (from reading the articles) is all on one SOI chip @ 32nm that includes IBM Processors, AMD GPU, AMD Southbridge and eDRAM (larger than 10 megs and not dedicated to GPU?) This is 100% doable with little effort for Xbox360 as the Xbox360S refresh was already more than half way to this (it had an updated IBM PPC processor and AMD GPU). An all on one silicon wafer would be cheaper than the Xbox 360S SOC that 2.5D attached eDRAM. The 2010 360S SOC used a newer PPC processor and GPU with custom Southbridge.

Speculation on Xbox refresh (my opinion Dec 2011): Before you dismiss this, read the Xbox360S refresh link above.

I expect a 2012 refresh to use even more updated components that increase efficiency and reduce cost, this includes hardware changes that support DDR3 256 bit buss, UMA, Zero copy, multiple power modes and might include GPU as CPU (all of which would require OS Software changes).

This would actually cost less and use less power. For instance a 256 bit memory buss instead of 128 bit reduces drive power as memory can be run slower and still have the same bandwidth/throughput. If memory is on a multi-layer substrate between the SOC and the Motherboard, costs to implement a 256 bit buss would be minimal with game console volume.

The 360S shows that it's possible to emulate older hardware even after significant changes. The only question is whether the added performance will be allowed to show through and how much Microsoft will fragment the Xbox 360 market. The desktop or dashboard and some OS routines can be made more efficient/faster without impacting game compatibility.


Even without my speculation a new all on one silicon chip refresh for Xbox360 would allow them a price advantage that Sony can not survive if Microsoft decides to press their advantage. A sales downturn is now happening and price drops will happen soon to try to increase sales.

Sony must refresh to allow a cheaper price point for PS3.

For PS3 a refresh to an all on one Silicon chip @ 32nm is not easily possible thus Sony's delay. Dumb PS3 Cell shrink is not possible due to the Flex I/O and Rambuss connectors on either side of the Cell so a total CPU redesign is needed and RSX GPU was not designed to work on SOI.

Speculation PS3 refresh (4000 chassis): Both Xbox and WiiU would be using the most efficient and cost effective design which would be IBM's all on one chip SOC, Sony should do so also if it's possible.

For CPU Sony has already published a patent that indicates they think the current Cell design is dead. Including on a SOI wafer @32 two 1PPU4SPU (Sony 2010 patent) CPU packages with cross bar switch like the Xbox360S or AMD uses in their A series APUs makes sense. Ok we now have no XDR RAM interface or Flex I/O so what do we use?

For GPU if the new PS3 is to be made by IBM or GF as an all on one silicon chip SOC, it appears it would be a AMD GPU as it would support low power modes and is already a SOI process design (likely the same one the Xbox uses). It's either this and software emulation of the RSX or a costly redesign to support low power modes and SOI; software emulation would be cheaper.

If this is what's happening for the PS3 then as far as CPU, everything is in this Chip made for a PS3 to support Xbox360 as Xbox uses one of the PPU processors for OS duties which can be emulated safely by other hardware. Likely the same southbridge and GPU used by the Xbox refresh at 32nm will be in the PS3 SOI wafer also. 256 bit buss memory should be as fast as XDR and 4 64 bit wide 256meg memory chips can give enough extra memory for emulation overhead and a little more for OS features. Again the question is what extra features and performance will Sony allow.

Since both Xbox and PS3 refresh to 32nm on one SOI silicon wafer could be using the same hardware except for the extra SPUs needed for a PS3, one SOI chip @ 32nm design could be used by both. microsoft-sony.com and both get the most cost effective design and share the design and setup costs.

In the above, there could be differences outside the SOC between Xbox361S and PS3S like wireless G for PS3 and Wireless N for Xbox.

If this is happening then WiiU may not be much more powerful than a refreshed PS3 or Xbox would have as potential (maybe not being used), it would just have new APIs and would not have to worry about fragmenting a market.

There is follow-on speculation for both PS4 and Xbox720 using the 1PPU4SPU CPU packages for BC and would refreshed PS3 and Xbox360 @ 32nm be powerful enough for last generation BC.

Anyone see any holes in the above?

SONY DETAIL 2012 GAMESCOM PRESS CONFERENCE
It's gonna be a big one. The invite locks down the date as Tuesday 14th August and it&#8217;ll be at 7pm local time, at Staatenhaus am Rheinpark, Cologne.

State House on the Rhine Park

THE ARCHITECTURE STRETCHES A STATEMENT ON
. MULTIFUNCTIONAL APPROACH
. MEET AND MARKET PLACE AT THE SAME TIME
. WITH A LIVELY DIALOG IN THE HALLS AND COLONNADES . FUNCTION AND ATMOSPHERE - ROOM FOR SUCCESS


I'd guess, new PS3, new XMB, New OS features, Full browser and more.

 

[MrBS]

I love you rigby but to speculate about extra horsepower for emulation? Do you want to see the children cry when it doesn't happen.

Also if it does happen I'm up for wearing a 'team rigby' shirt out in public for a bit.

 

[googleplex]

Aren't the glowy balls just because they wanted to reuse the pseye? For a new system they can release a new camera (with dedicated connector or USB 3) and build in whatever is needed to get rid of the balls. Eg copy wii with camera/IR LEDs or something else

Fuck no! the beauty of the PSEye Move combo is that the PS3 know exactly where in 3d space the controller is,(See Tumble) I really hope some new version of PsMove is packed in with every PS4.

Besides, with a higher resolution Camera the glowing balls can be much smaller. A new "higher" resolution 3d PSeye with a controller that can function as a motion contoller and standard controller, and all bases are covered.

 

[Canis lupus]

Whats more likely: PS4 getting a gpu comparable to the coming HD88xx series or HD89xx series?

 

[Graphics Horse]

Fuck no! the beauty of the PSEye Move combo is that the PS3 know exactly where in 3d space the controller is,(See Tumble) I really hope some new version of PsMove is packed in with every PS4.

Sony has patents on using I/R LEDS on glasses to know exactly where they are. Add I/R camera to PS EYE, replace glowy ball with LED array, simples.

Back to the new PS3 4000 chassis. Alert in thread title is because of my wild speculation that follows.

A pair of debugging stations are also present in the filing, DECH-4001x and DECH-S4001x, suggesting that Sony is putting at least some new hardware through its paces &#8212; debugging stations are traditionally used when there's been a change to the chips inside. This could indeed be an all-new slimmer model, but is just as likely to be an internal hardware change as Sony continues to cut the console's cost.

Can we say Die size reduction confirmed? (from 40nm to 32nm)

More reasonable speculation might be that the new model features a new connection to an optional 16GB chip on the motherboard. Or they don't want to keep the old production line just to build new debug units, say.

 

[nofi]

I'd guess, new PS3, new XMB, New OS features, Full browser and more.

Read nothing into that line.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Read nothing into that line.

Read "Location" says big, big I'd guess is what I posted.

 

[ekim]

Jeff - is this your PS 3.5:?
http://kotaku.com/5927310/unboxing-the-nasne-sonys-new-media-hub/gallery/1

 

[CorrisD]

Jeff - is this your PS 3.5:?
http://kotaku.com/5927310/unboxing-the-nasne-sonys-new-media-hub/gallery/1

That's a very Sony thing to do, bring out device that matches current hardware, develop new looking hardware to replace old one that doesn't look the same, lol.

 

[Moor-Angol]

Can somebody tell Sony to add PS2 BC back in this new model so I can buy it please?

Okami HD
Devil May Cry Collection HD
Metal Gear Solid Collection HD
God of War Collection HD
ZOE Collection HD
Sengoku Basara Collection HD
Silent Hill Collection HD
ICO Collection HD
Yakuza HD Collection

the answer

 

[Road]

That's a very Sony thing to do, bring out device that matches current hardware, develop new looking hardware to replace old one that doesn't look the same, lol.

The sides and the front are like the new PS3 design (with that little PS logo on the side and the top and front covers with the small gap), the top/bottom covers are like the current Slim. (speaking of both standing horizontally)

Should've made the new PS3 exactly like Nasne, without the horrendous grill. Looks so much better.

 

[phosphor112]

Thought this was interesting, but...

Sony has been pulling their Nasne DVR kits from stores before release. Some assumptions as to why is because of a glitch or something. Odd that they can't just patch it, as you'd have to connect it to the internet to work anyway. Maybe there is something else going on?