It's not a major refresh. While the original slim was heavier, the current one is already at 2.6Kg. They're just using a cheaper cooling system and less plastic on the new one, so it's a bit lighter.
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New PS3 Model (CECH-4000) Registered on FCC (Jeff_Rigby alert)
- Thread starter Pooya
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It's not a major refresh. While the original slim was heavier, the current one is already at 2.6Kg. They're just using a cheaper cooling system and less plastic on the new one, so it's a bit lighter.
jeff_rigby
Banned
So 15% drop in weight not 30% with 10% max power reduction. .5Kg dropped= 1.1 pounds
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1561500&postcount=1
Not significant but the 3000 model already went through a major weight reduction, where did Sony find the 1.1 pounds to remove?
Edit: on the weight reduction for the 3000 model
So the 3000 model did get a refresh to cell that makes it cost less as well as electrically more efficient which reduces heat like a die size reduction. Rolf NB mentions 70 watts not 80 watts for the K line = 3000 chassis. 10 watts savings as heat means smaller heat sink.http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4213678/Sony-goes--coreless--in-Cell-processors?pageNumber=1 said:
I would guess that removing the slot loading disc drive helped a little.
The system is much smaller. Not because they've made a huge jump in any particular area since the last revision, but because of all the improvements they've been making since the 2009 PS3 have all been adding up.
External power supply a'la PS2 slim?
No!
jeff_rigby
Banned
See my edit: In 2010 the 3000 weight reduction was in part due to a more efficient Cell processor at the same die size as the 2009 2000 model. Different manufacturing process made it more efficient. Rolf NB mentioned 70 watts for the K line = 3000 model not 80 watts in the information I cite and Massa corrects another cite on weight for the 3000 model.
So what are all the improvements since 2010 that are coming?
The slim case was designed to fit the 2000. We've now had: 2000->2100->2500->3000->4000. With each transition they reduce the number of components and the size of the required cooling solution. Eventually they would get to a point where they can fit the system in a smaller case, we've now reached that point.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Smaller case and motherboard for the 4000 = 1.1 pounds? No other revisions? We then must assume the max power drop seen in the Technoblog picture is not related to reduced power needs in the 4000 chassis.
This was the last motherboard for a revision, the 3000 4/26/2011 (From Graphics Horse last page, the yellow outline is an educated guess at the dimensions of the bottom of the 4000. Shave 1/4 inch or so each side of that and that's the Motherboard size. The upper right of the case extends out from the motherboard to house the blu-ray Drive which looks like it will still overlap the right side of the motherboard.)
Photo of Motherboard and outside case here at FCC. We have thanks to you and Rolf NM the weight and reduced power of the above motherboard. There have been no revisions since the 3000.
Notice in the above picture the Hard disk occupies the area at the bottom right. Moving it into the area currently occupied by Motherboard would require a taller PS3 design. To my untrained eye something has to condense like CPU and GPU in one package with reduced power supply area for the CPU. When trying to find a HDD door, just noticed there is no picture of the right side of the 4000 Chassis from Technoblog. The MB outline is smaller than the case where the Blu-ray resides. Thought the HDD might slide in from the front side like the original Fhat did, just from right side not left this time. Edit: Graphics Horse already caught this.
No eject motor + mechanism for the blu-ray drive
Plus I'm sure the 2.1 kg is for the 16GB model, which means no hdd.
Adding these two can easily give you 1.1 lbs, a 2.5" hdd weighs close to a pound on its own.
jeff_rigby
Banned
True, for the first time we can have a PS3 without a mechanical HDD. Just depends on the weight being min or max. For shipping I'd expect max weight being specified.
Have you taken apart a 2000 or 3000 and felt the weight of the blu-ray drive; very light, I don't expect much weight savings there as the top PS3 4000 case has to have an enclosure and lid to mount the drive which adds weight.
I've stumbled around trying to use the meager information we have to predict/confirm what's coming and Graphics Horse's picture appears to suggest more than any other method. Also a Shell and motherboard only redesign for shipping weight only is I think not practical. A major change like this requires the entire assembly line equipment to be realigned...everything changes. That's a big change, an entirely new line has to be developed.
BY3D Forum IBM presents 45nm Cell B.E. at ISSC (from 2008)
Black Republican
Member
with the new top loading ps3, i wonder if there will be a ps1 mod to play other region discs?
To me Nasne looks more like the existing slim, isn't matte?
I haven't really looked at it though.
Following the Slim launch, announced at GamesCom and then released Sept 1st iirc.
So probably along the same lines.
jeff_rigby
Banned
PS3-4000 skips gamescom, 16Gb Flash SKU goes cheap
1) Flip-lid not sliding lid.
2) "A gamescom reveal had been planned, but stock levels of the current build are said to be too high." There must be something very attractive about the 4000 series if it will trash sales of the 3000 slim. Sony could always phase in a cheaper price.
PS2 BC coming (via software emulation) which makes sense with Sony pushing sales to a more casual market. QA testing to ensure the PS2 games work properly under emulation. onQ123 posted about the PSN program of PS2 releases and in that thread was this post.
The PS3 4000 is also undergoing QA testing. (There was a post confirming a new PS3 coming from a "mate" who works in Sony QA in England.) You only have to do QA testing if there have been significant changes to Firmware or Hardware, if running under emulation for instance.
1) Flip-lid not sliding lid.
2) "A gamescom reveal had been planned, but stock levels of the current build are said to be too high." There must be something very attractive about the 4000 series if it will trash sales of the 3000 slim. Sony could always phase in a cheaper price.
PS2 BC coming (via software emulation) which makes sense with Sony pushing sales to a more casual market. QA testing to ensure the PS2 games work properly under emulation. onQ123 posted about the PSN program of PS2 releases and in that thread was this post.
The PS3 4000 is also undergoing QA testing. (There was a post confirming a new PS3 coming from a "mate" who works in Sony QA in England.) You only have to do QA testing if there have been significant changes to Firmware or Hardware, if running under emulation for instance.
Probably as the swap disc trick works on previous PS3 models.
There is a topic going on it already, and of the three apparent information tidbits they got a hold of, they have already gone back on one of them, tha being the apparent price.
At this point my socks are a more reliable source of information than VG247 are with their sources.
jeff_rigby
Banned
No way of knowing but TGS is late September and it has an added advantage for Sony, it's in Japan and Sony should finally be able to support DASH IPTV streaming like Netflix native to all their CE platforms. It may be when they fully support a streaming storefront and finally a SVG menu PSN. That could be launch day for the new and improved Sony on-line.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
Bet on a little before WiiU drops.
Wat. Can you finally stop perpetuating this nonsense please? CECH-3000 (K) is already down to 70W. Take one and measure it. I'm more than done explaining this.
jeff_rigby
Banned
1094 Sony patents give insight into Sony views on the future of XTV and gaming.
There is one about a System for Converting Television Commercials into Interactive Networked Video Games
Think about what Sony is envisioning for broadcast XTV.
There is one about a System for Converting Television Commercials into Interactive Networked Video Games
Think about what Sony is envisioning for broadcast XTV.
KennyLinder
Member
Why would they? It's got HDMI control and a really good bluetooth remote control.
AbandonedTrolley
Member
Logitech Harmony remote, but then it would be taking from Logitech for their overpriced PS3 adaptor.
Valkyr Junkie
Member
Yes, clearly the lack of IR is what has been holding the PS3 back all these years.
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
Think of all the sales!! They will hit 100m in weeks.
Meh... I like my bluetooth remotes
nothing like having my hand point in the direction it is is or even be in another room and use the remote to change the music via the bluetooth remote.
Why do people want old/cheap/has been technology?
I was pissed when apple included IR instead of bluetooth in the appletv
You want a real next gen feature? They should add a front facing digital clock.
LOL
I just want this remote to work with the PS3 or PS4
What is that? Link plz?
phosphor112
Banned
It comes with Sony's new Google TV thingy.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/26/sony-nsz-gs7-google-tv-review/
jeff_rigby
Banned
This had to be the PS3 4000 chassis. Everyone picked apart this rumor and even recently cautioned against using anything in the leak because Digitimes has been wrong in the past but:
1) we can check off one correct for the rumor....a new chassis was contracted to be assembled just not a PS4. The error in it's self is telling as it's probable that there were no recognizable "Cell" or PS3 specific hardware features.
2) Check off #2, Sony filed a patent for a depth camera 8 months after the above post and just after OpenMax 1.2 was published. A depth camera is needed with Kinect like controller built in.
That only leaves 20 million the first year which I feel is probably accurate as it's something that someone who is contracted to build them would have to know.
xclaw
Member
Has it been confirmed to not work? Being bluetooth you'd think it would be possible to pair up. I've replaced my wireless keyboard and mouse on the PS3 with an android app that lets you type and move the cursor around.
I don't know, hopefully it does
jeff_rigby
Banned
Next Xbox to arrive before 2014, Microsoft ad suggests
At a minimum a 2012 Xbox 360 refresh is taking the Xbox 360S @45nm one step further and now eDRAM will also be on the same 32nm SOI silicon with CPU and GPU. If it has HDMI pass-thru (Xbox 361) and low power modes then it will be significantly more advanced using hardware designs that support low power modes and that along with the other features (1080P, 3-D) needed might require a more modern GPU.
My wild speculation
Wouldn't the cheapest solution be to use a AMD APU (SOI) design, scale down the GPU CUs and replace the X86 CPU packages with two 1PPC3SPU+cache multi-processor packages. Wouldn't software emulation of both PS3 and Xbox 360 be cheaper than a complete new hardware design with power modes, this already in AMD APU designs. BC for both PS4 and Xbox 720 would use nearly the same emulation and the same two 1PPC3SPU multi-processor design packages in addition to two Jaguar multi-processor packages (4 in each package for a total of 8 CPUs). This gives a total of 4 multi-processor packages which appears to be a standard Crossbar switch design for AMD.
My speculation required both Microsoft and Sony next generation be X86 and both using similar AMD APU designs with core silicon exactly the same being the most cost effective.
This would explain Microsoft-sony.com and would have had AMD pointing out this possibility to both Microsoft and Sony in 2010 which was when, according to one rumor, Microsoft switched from PPC & AMD GPU to X86 & AMD GPU. I assume cost, HSA Fusion libraries and standards had a part in the choice. 2010 was when Sony patented a SPU multi-processor (1PPU4SPU) design.
Any way that's my guess and in such a scenario a picture of the Xbox or PS3 would have In & Out HDMI ports. The South American "TechnoBlog" has pictures they claim is of the PS3 4000 chassis and it does not have In&Out HDMI ports or even a Depth camera Kinect Like port which the Digitimes rumor seems to imply.
So we have a jeff_rigby alert, my wild speculation is completely wrong and Technoblog pictures are real or my speculation is mostly accurate and the Technoblog pictures are fake.
End wild speculation
The Digitimes rumor stated Sony (Change PS4 in 2012 to PS3) plans to sell 20 million the first year. This means something about it is very attractive, much more so than the current PS3 3000 chassis which is taking a downturn, as is the Xbox 360, in sales. Rumors have Sony not announcing the PS3 4000 chassis at Gamescom because stock of current PS3s are too high. This 1) supports a downturn in sales higher than expected and 2) That something about the 4000 chassis will disrupt PS3 3000 chassis sales. It can't be price as Sony has control of that. It can't be the ugly design of the PS3 4000 chassis or the top loading blu-ray player which some like but many find looks cheaper and would be a reason for a PS3 3000 chassis at a slightly higher price to co-exist with a PS4 4000 chassis.
XTV is coming in a big way Sept of this year. Khronos states that programmers can leverage the native libraries for Browsers to support Augmented Reality and it's also coming starting Sept. It makes sense to support BOTH a depth camera and HDMI pass-thru to support what's coming Sept.
Sony will have a Webkit2 browser with WebMAF HTML5 apps, HTML5 <video> with Microsoft Playready DRM as well as SVG support and WebGL. Microsoft will have a HTML5 browser and apps also. Both may have gesture and voice recognition control.
Sony's rumored PSN expansion we have all been waiting for will finally be reveled and the Sony IPTV Preview app (proof of concept) will be replaced with a WebMAF HTML5 <video> app. When will this happen and when will the PS3 4000 chassis be announced, at the same time is likely if I'm correct and would be a better reason for delaying the announcement.
At the end of this month Gstreamer 1.0 will be announced and the next Gnome/Webkit cycle is September 28.
Oh, Steam is going to start selling applications in addition to games this Sept 5th.
This could be a Xbox 720 or more likely it's referring to a Xbox 360 refresh that was mentioned in the Xbox 720 Powerpoint. The IBM Fab Dec 2011 tapeout and production of 10,000 disks @32nm containing PPC CPU-AMD GPU-edram rumored made for Microsoft with GloFlo8 also producing the exact same chips must be for the Xbox 360 refresh not Xbox 720 which is now, from multiple sources, known to be X86 and parts likely to be identical to parts of the PS4 SoC. Two Fab plants making the same Silicon for Microsoft means it's very important for Microsoft and they second sourced it or they expect Sales for the new design to be very high. But sales of the Xbox are dropping as expected in the Xbox 720 powerpoint.
At a minimum a 2012 Xbox 360 refresh is taking the Xbox 360S @45nm one step further and now eDRAM will also be on the same 32nm SOI silicon with CPU and GPU. If it has HDMI pass-thru (Xbox 361) and low power modes then it will be significantly more advanced using hardware designs that support low power modes and that along with the other features (1080P, 3-D) needed might require a more modern GPU.
My wild speculation
Wouldn't the cheapest solution be to use a AMD APU (SOI) design, scale down the GPU CUs and replace the X86 CPU packages with two 1PPC3SPU+cache multi-processor packages. Wouldn't software emulation of both PS3 and Xbox 360 be cheaper than a complete new hardware design with power modes, this already in AMD APU designs. BC for both PS4 and Xbox 720 would use nearly the same emulation and the same two 1PPC3SPU multi-processor design packages in addition to two Jaguar multi-processor packages (4 in each package for a total of 8 CPUs). This gives a total of 4 multi-processor packages which appears to be a standard Crossbar switch design for AMD.
My speculation required both Microsoft and Sony next generation be X86 and both using similar AMD APU designs with core silicon exactly the same being the most cost effective.
This would explain Microsoft-sony.com and would have had AMD pointing out this possibility to both Microsoft and Sony in 2010 which was when, according to one rumor, Microsoft switched from PPC & AMD GPU to X86 & AMD GPU. I assume cost, HSA Fusion libraries and standards had a part in the choice. 2010 was when Sony patented a SPU multi-processor (1PPU4SPU) design.
Any way that's my guess and in such a scenario a picture of the Xbox or PS3 would have In & Out HDMI ports. The South American "TechnoBlog" has pictures they claim is of the PS3 4000 chassis and it does not have In&Out HDMI ports or even a Depth camera Kinect Like port which the Digitimes rumor seems to imply.
So we have a jeff_rigby alert, my wild speculation is completely wrong and Technoblog pictures are real or my speculation is mostly accurate and the Technoblog pictures are fake.
End wild speculation
The Digitimes rumor stated Sony (Change PS4 in 2012 to PS3) plans to sell 20 million the first year. This means something about it is very attractive, much more so than the current PS3 3000 chassis which is taking a downturn, as is the Xbox 360, in sales. Rumors have Sony not announcing the PS3 4000 chassis at Gamescom because stock of current PS3s are too high. This 1) supports a downturn in sales higher than expected and 2) That something about the 4000 chassis will disrupt PS3 3000 chassis sales. It can't be price as Sony has control of that. It can't be the ugly design of the PS3 4000 chassis or the top loading blu-ray player which some like but many find looks cheaper and would be a reason for a PS3 3000 chassis at a slightly higher price to co-exist with a PS4 4000 chassis.
XTV is coming in a big way Sept of this year. Khronos states that programmers can leverage the native libraries for Browsers to support Augmented Reality and it's also coming starting Sept. It makes sense to support BOTH a depth camera and HDMI pass-thru to support what's coming Sept.
Sony will have a Webkit2 browser with WebMAF HTML5 apps, HTML5 <video> with Microsoft Playready DRM as well as SVG support and WebGL. Microsoft will have a HTML5 browser and apps also. Both may have gesture and voice recognition control.
Sony's rumored PSN expansion we have all been waiting for will finally be reveled and the Sony IPTV Preview app (proof of concept) will be replaced with a WebMAF HTML5 <video> app. When will this happen and when will the PS3 4000 chassis be announced, at the same time is likely if I'm correct and would be a better reason for delaying the announcement.
At the end of this month Gstreamer 1.0 will be announced and the next Gnome/Webkit cycle is September 28.
Oh, Steam is going to start selling applications in addition to games this Sept 5th.
yn-neko hates a cat
Banned
Is this the one that leaked that looked ugly as sin?
I don't know how true that is given that MS has been sitting on a pricedrop for almost 2 years now. You're also dealing with a stronger Yen (whatever the hell that means) but people say it hurts Sony more to drop than it will MS even if all other things remain equal.
I guess regardless of who loses the holiday, the buyer wins. I just don't want Sony to go out of business and I doubt they will but if you listen to all the doom-gloom on these boards, you begin to wonder.
I don't know how true that is given that MS has been sitting on a pricedrop for almost 2 years now. You're also dealing with a stronger Yen (whatever the hell that means) but people say it hurts Sony more to drop than it will MS even if all other things remain equal.
I guess regardless of who loses the holiday, the buyer wins. I just don't want Sony to go out of business and I doubt they will but if you listen to all the doom-gloom on these boards, you begin to wonder.
it's a redesign they will probably be making more money off of it at the lower price than they are making off of the PS3 now at the higher price the price drop isn't going to take them out of business it will help the business.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Yeah the 2010 Xbox 360S refresh seriously dropped the cost to produce a Xbox 360 by combining PPC and GPU on the same silicon. Sony has nothing like it for the PS3 and just about everyone but me is assuming the Cell and RSX will not be combined on the same silicon for the PS3 4000 chassis. There are two good reasons 1) RSX is bulk process not SOI but IBM/Microsoft solved that problem by designing a custom GPU that hardware emulated the Xbox GPU. 2) Cell would have to be redesigned but there is a Sony 2010 patent that would work as a redesign but it would require some OS emulation.
If there is a 2012 Xbox 360 refresh with eDRAM and more on the same Silicon we could be looking at the rumored $99 Xbox 360 with no Hard Disk drive. This imbalance in price between Sony and Microsoft production costs puts Sony in a fragile position. Anytime Microsoft wants to push their advantage they can and Sony has no counter except to loose money.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Sony’s gamescom press conference next week – “future of PlayStation" to be revealed
Could be anything; “future of PlayStation" is probably about everything most likely centering on PSN then how that is supported on the PS3 & Vita with the Firmware update we have been expecting. New president, new Playstation...dynamic new, under new management Sony. Lots of hype but lots of technology we have been hearing about since 2010 finally being released now that the Webkit2 browser and support libraries are complete enough to support it.
Could be anything; “future of PlayStation" is probably about everything most likely centering on PSN then how that is supported on the PS3 & Vita with the Firmware update we have been expecting. New president, new Playstation...dynamic new, under new management Sony. Lots of hype but lots of technology we have been hearing about since 2010 finally being released now that the Webkit2 browser and support libraries are complete enough to support it.
Opus Angelorum
Member
Not going to happen.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Gesh, post links or text, what you brought up is much more than my post. If it's a picture then most likely it is the PS3 4000 chassis and may differ from the current Leaked pictures:
I don't get your point besides I missed posting the picture...
Now I'm thinking - does he mean 4pm AU timezone?
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