darth_infamous
Member
3rd person Kyle Katarn a la Uncharted? Yes please!
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Nolan North on UC4- 8mths of Hennig's story/performance work was thrown away
- Thread starter stryke
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3rd person Kyle Katarn a la Uncharted? Yes please!
privitsan02
Member
People tend to forget that Druckmann was a writer for Drake's Fortune and Among Thieves as well. Bruce directed Among Thieves, while Richmond directed 3. Neither Bruce nor Druckmann had a hand in Drake's Deception and its clear as day there's a quality drop there.
The game was rushed but its up to the director to decide if a delay was needed and its up to the creative director and writer, which was Amy in this case, to fix the story if there were any problems. Fact of the matter is that there are many holes in Drake's Deception with Talbot, Chloe and the lack of proper usage in Marlowe.
Sony clearly give Naughty Dog leeway with how they delayed Uncharted 4 and The Last of Us. They also allowed David Jaffe to delay Twisted Metal from Fall 2011 to Valentines Day 2012. Naughty Dog were incredibly high on their horses saying they had never delayed a game before and want to finish it on time. Had Naughty Dog request a delay, Sony would've let them. It's great to see the studio no longer wanting to do crunch time to finish a game, rather taking their time and not really focus too much on missing out on Game of the Year awards by releasing during the Holidays.
Uncharted 3 was still good. Even great. Amy Hennig is a great writer and she will do great things at EA but Bruce and Neil's impact in Drake's Fortune and Among Thieves is often overlooked. They were all equally a part of the first two games. Only Amy Hennig and Justin Richmond weren't able to replicate success like Bruce and Neil did with The Last of Us. This is saying a lot because Uncharted 3 was still very well received, won several game of the year awards and sold a lot as well. Its success is often overlooked due to the behemoth of a success Uncharted 2 and The Last of Us were.
Hopefully the new team that's cooking up a new IP there can bring forth new talent to the limelight.
Best wishes.
The game was rushed but its up to the director to decide if a delay was needed and its up to the creative director and writer, which was Amy in this case, to fix the story if there were any problems. Fact of the matter is that there are many holes in Drake's Deception with Talbot, Chloe and the lack of proper usage in Marlowe.
I still don't know how Talbot survived after being shot. All I know is Hennig responded in a tweet.. a damn tweet.
Sony clearly give Naughty Dog leeway with how they delayed Uncharted 4 and The Last of Us. They also allowed David Jaffe to delay Twisted Metal from Fall 2011 to Valentines Day 2012. Naughty Dog were incredibly high on their horses saying they had never delayed a game before and want to finish it on time. Had Naughty Dog request a delay, Sony would've let them. It's great to see the studio no longer wanting to do crunch time to finish a game, rather taking their time and not really focus too much on missing out on Game of the Year awards by releasing during the Holidays.
Uncharted 3 was still good. Even great. Amy Hennig is a great writer and she will do great things at EA but Bruce and Neil's impact in Drake's Fortune and Among Thieves is often overlooked. They were all equally a part of the first two games. Only Amy Hennig and Justin Richmond weren't able to replicate success like Bruce and Neil did with The Last of Us. This is saying a lot because Uncharted 3 was still very well received, won several game of the year awards and sold a lot as well. Its success is often overlooked due to the behemoth of a success Uncharted 2 and The Last of Us were.
Hopefully the new team that's cooking up a new IP there can bring forth new talent to the limelight.
Best wishes.
EmptySpace
Banned
and she was the lead writer for uc2, which most of gaf adore.
not only are you saying druckmann was the differentiator between uc2 and uc3, but you are also downplaying amy's role on uc2. it is seriously ridiculous.
she hasn't written one of the best storylines? and even bringing up her age like that has any bearing to anything.
hennig wrote the legacy of kain series and the uncharteds, two of the most beloved storylines in video games. druckmann wrote tlou and now not only has druckmann wrote "one of the best", but amy 'has not", and druckmann "is on a league of his own".
so one game nullified amy's whole career, and one game made druckmann *the* superstar.
yeah, total hyperbole and ridiculousness.
the level of hate for uc3 alone is ridiculous enough. there was a lot of things in uc3 both story and gameplay that were better than uc2.
And Indiana Jones (not counting 4) is much better and more cleverly written than anything in The Walking Dead (not counting the comic), just because you're going for lighthearted pulp doesn't mean you can't have great writing, or be compared to something else.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
You know, thinking about the entries since the original with the urban locations and such, I kind of miss having a meaty chunk of the game revolving around being alone and finding your comrades. Yeah, sure, we'll have a couple levels like such, but it's not QUITE the same. Some of the mystery and pulp is lost when they can just hop a jet and be at vacation city #12 with no issue.
People don't seriously think there's a chance in hell this is what it is, right? If anything they'll be building off the foundation laid by the 1313 project.
MuddyDonut
Member
Yeahp
I mean Druckmann made TLOU. Amazing game with an amazing story.
Amy did UC3 (I believe so right?) which had a terrible story and villains. UC2's story was good and the villain was serviceable but the set pieces and visuals are what blew me away. I heard great things about her work with the Legacy of Kain series but I have never played them to comment on them.
So I have a little more trust in Druckmann, but at the same time this could be out of his playing field and maybe Amy was always the right choice.
Who knows we'll see.
Amy did UC3 (I believe so right?) which had a terrible story and villains. UC2's story was good and the villain was serviceable but the set pieces and visuals are what blew me away. I heard great things about her work with the Legacy of Kain series but I have never played them to comment on them.
So I have a little more trust in Druckmann, but at the same time this could be out of his playing field and maybe Amy was always the right choice.
Who knows we'll see.
Obliterator
Member
Druckmann was involved in UC1 and UC2. Its not out of his realm. This will be the first one he's lead on though I believe.
Lion Heart
Banned
The game seems pretty light hearted going by the e3 demo and some of the banter was top notch, like the whole "we can never come back here" quip.
You can be light hearted and still have well thought out characters and great writing.
You can be light hearted and still have well thought out characters and great writing.
I'm splitting the Star Wars news off to a separate thread here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1072262
CalamityPixel
Member
Damn, that sucks. I'd have prefer Henning's work, but I don't like the idea of a new team building on from that work, especially TLOU team.
Its amazing how people continuously downplay Amy's involvement in the UC games or try to divorce her involvement from UC2, despite Amy being the creative director of the entire trilogy, there's a reason she gets presented with the GOTY awards for every UC game & not someone else, every single thing in the project has to be approved by her, that includes the bad AND the good.
And every time someone corrects the misinformation regarding UC2, the post gets ignored, in every single thread.
I loved Druckmann's work in TLOU, & I think he is a great writer (not better than Amy, I think Nate & Elena are better written characters), but some of the posts in here & other Amy threads are embarrassing.
Obliterator
Member
Hissing Sid
Member
Hmmmm. There seems to be a tendency amongst some posters to downplay Hennigs work whenever these threads appear. It's a bit weird tbh. Almost feels as though giving Hennig any credit for her accomplishments takes away some of the credit from the accomplishments of Druckmann and Straley. It doesn't have to be like that. It's ok for them all to have done some decent work. The universe won't cease to exist If this is acknowledged. Not everything needs to be turned into a Top Trumps pissing contest.
I think a lot of the complaints about AssCreed 3 were mechanical; it was a really disjointed experience. They spent like 40% of the game on flashbacks, tutorials and false starts, and the rest of it jumps around in a really weird way and suddenly rushes to a conclusion. The conclusion to Desmond's story felt similarly rushed, but I don't believe it was the main reason people disliked it.
Obliterator
Member
Amy was the leading force behind all 3 Uncharted games pretty much in terms of creative influence and characters. The game is going to feel different now. Nolan himself says it here in this interview.
Could be a good thing or a bad thing but its a fact the game will feel different than the other 3, Amy not being there will be felt.
Kralamoonard
Member
What's with all the crapping on Amy Hennig? I do think it's a tad unfair the attitude some people are having towards her work and taking it for granted and undermining it, to say the least.
I have no doubt Neil and Bruce will do an excellent job, as they have done previously, but lets not discredit Amy's work all of a sudden and ignore her talent.
I have no doubt Neil and Bruce will do an excellent job, as they have done previously, but lets not discredit Amy's work all of a sudden and ignore her talent.
And the franchise could not be in safer hands. Yes Uncharted is Amy's baby but the strong involvement of Neil and Bruce with UC2 is what catapulted the ip into stardom. I don't buy that UC3 was rushed because UC2 also came out within 2 years of UC1's release. Neil and Bruce are just a far better combo than Amy and Rich and understand the adventuring heart of UC better, no disrespect though, I am sure Amy/Rich will do great things at EA.
All I know is the last thing she did at Naughty Dog was U3. And the last thing Druckmann did at Naughty Dog was The Last of Us.
So, I'm gonna side with Druckmann.
It's kinda funny looking at Amy's twitter and seeing her praise most of the high-profile Sony showings at E3...except one which is conspicuously missing.
https://twitter.com/amy_hennig
I wonder if we'll ever know what went down there.
Damn! Really looking like there's some bad blood there. That IGN rumor may have had some truth after all.(Not saying Neil Druckmann and Bruce Straley did force her out but she may have felt a lack of support and decided to leave or something along those lines).
MuddyDonut
Member
Its so funny playing Black Flag when my last one was 2, just to find out wwhat Ubisoft did.
I think people are getting extremely defensive because in the first Amy thread, a lot of posters said UC4 is gonna suck, so some people started getting defensive by saying "UC wasn't good because of Amy anyway". Unfortunately since a lot of people read GAF, the false narrative that Druckmann was the creative director of UC2 has spread all over the internet.
CamHostage
Member
Yeah, often on GAF you see people griping about how the press doesn't ask enough "hard-hitting questions" or press harder for "the real answers" when they get coded/hedged answers that tell the story but clearly has some cushion in there to soften the blow... then you cringe to yourself as you read something unvarnished like this and just worry for what's going to happen next time this guy or his agent or somebody gets a phone call or office appt from the company.
I really appreciate how directly he answered the questions, and it sounds like even if it was a hard and perhaps ugly period in the Naughty Dog process, the end result will probably be for the best for both parties; ND has been able to retool the project that was frustrating the whole office, and Henning was able to jump onto the biggest franchise in entertainment history.
Obliterator
Member
Idk I'm leaning towards the force out. Nolans description of events basically sounds like Druckmann and Co. came in and ran over the entire project and made it theirs. May be the better game for it but saying stuff like "removed people from the project" and "making it their own" sure sounds like they didn't join in to finish the game. Sounds like they took their vision and got rid of whatever Amy and her team were doing
MuddyDonut
Member
Wait...so Neil and Bruce made Uncharted 2 good and not Amy?
That's like saying TLOU was great because of Bruce Straley & Jacob Minkoff*, & Druckmann was just inconsequential to the project. Amy was the creative director & writer for all the Uncharted games, & a main VA leaving the project isn't a theory, it is a fact, what do you think will happen to TLOU if Marlene's VA left in the middle of the project?
*Jacob Minkoff: Lead designer of The Last of Us, the exact same role Druckmann had in UC2.
a secret-boss
Banned
Can't wait for Amy's Star Wars game
Amy definitely needed Bruce/Neil there because the lack of them with UC3 is absolutely felt. The proof is the pudding; no Bruce/Neil, lacklustre follow up to UC2, and with them we got an astounding new IP.
Ricky Ricardo
Member
It's kinda funny looking at Amy's twitter and seeing her praise most of the high-profile Sony showings at E3...except one which is conspicuously missing.
https://twitter.com/amy_hennig
I wonder if we'll ever know what went down there.
Yeah, I don't think it was a "peaceful" intervention, seems like some feelings were hurt and respect lost. But it's been kept quiet, just like Corrinne Yu's departure.
MuddyDonut
Member
I'm glad you told me about this.
I'm sure as talented as the duo are they would have made it work in TLOU. Anyway we'll find out with the similar situation when UC4 releases. If Neil/Bruce are able to salvage UC4 despite rewrites and actor changes then they are insanely talented. And with what has been shown so far, I have the upmost faith in them
While I agree with you that one game does not diminish Amy Henning's great contribution, I completely disagree with the bolded. UC3's level design , set pieces, pacing, story etc.. everything was far worse. I cant think of anything except the graphics that was done better in UC3. Chapter 14 in UC2 shits on the entirety of UC3.
MuddyDonut
Member
They came in, scrapped everything and made it their own...
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
Uncharted is not loved for its great story. I think Uncharted 3 is slightly better than 2, the story was just below average. And Kain series now had one of the best stories ever lol? I never took away that she had a major role in U2. I'm just stating that Druckmann was not a part of 3 and she lead it, and it was by far the worst written of the three. TLOU is the best written game for me, so yes one game does put him above her. Her age does have meaning. She's 20 years older than Druckmann and hasn't written something as good as he has.
You seem to be on protect Amy crusade. She's still one of the best writers in the business. A loss for NG no doubt. However Druckmann is better.
Disagree. Set pieces overall were better in U3. Flashback, airplane, ship, dessert scenes were immaculate. The main problem for U3 was that it was U2.5 rather than a noticable full blown sequel, with a worse story and MP.Game4life said:
MuddyDonut
Member
Yes it does? WHen didn't it? Does Mamarobotnik need to come in here?
I'm not putting her down, I'm just saying Druckmann is better.
I like how you are trying to make a point of you being older and more well-known than me in the most childish way possible.
Druckmann was also co-writer of Uncharted and Uncharted 2. For some reason you left out 3 which is the one most people complain about and the one Druckmann didn't co-wrote.
Good point.
The thing is departures, people moving around, etc is not regular news we sometimes may hear it most of the time we don't. Corrinne Yu's departure seems like she may have wanted a career change given the difference in roles without accounting what may have happened behind the scenes.
diffusionx
Gold Member
What would ND have to say about Hennig? People switch jobs.
They would say boilerplate like "She's a great talent, she made the move that was best for her, we wish her all the best. However, ND has a lot of great talent and UC4 will showcase that."
Neil & Bruce were allowed to delay UC4, Amy wasn't given that luxury for UC3.
UC3 had a worse story & pacing, but the level design was far far better, there's nothing in UC2 that even comes close to the ship graveyard for example, but there's no shame in that, there's no other TPS in history that had a better level.
UC3 also debuted Naughty Dog's melee system, the same system used in the TLOU, & an improved iteration of it in UC4.
Listen, UC2 is my favorite UC game, but your post is full of hyperbole.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
Seriously...? When did this happen, right in time for this topic.
MuddyDonut
Member
Ship graveyard level is the best Unchated level out there. So many ways to tackle that area.
Druckmann didn't write anything in UC1, & he was a co-writer in UC2, but Amy had 3 people write small bits for the story for her in UC2 not just Druckmann, but those bits weren't consequential in any way to the story, & everything had to be approved & edited by her.
MuddyDonut
Member
You're right. One of the better narratives in gaming has not been good until just now. lol
Oh there's bad blood, all right. Friendships were destroyed.
Yes this surprises me. As highly regarded as Amy is I am shocked Sony didn't give her more time. Seems like this bad blood wasn't a recent thing. Maybe she isn't good with leadership and Sony saw that whereas Neil really knows how to command when making a game, just by seeing the TLOU documentary he really sells the story and characters incredibly well. You sorta know you're going to get an incredible product with the Straleymann combo.
Really hope Amy gets the freedom she deserves at EA. I mean she is working on her favourite franchise so that's good
This.
Amy Hennig wrote 90% of the script for ALL three Uncharted games, & for all the complaining UC3 gets for its story, the characters & dialog in that game were as good as ever, if not better.