Support NeoGAF

[Zophar]

I'm not sure why you're having difficulty understanding this.

It doesn't create more detail, but 30fps in motion is a loss to clarity in comparison to 60. You have half the frames, and you will be able to see much less precise detail in motion.
And it isn't just about the animations, but the environment you're moving through. The textures on the wall, floor, etc...

At 60, you can make out every tiny detail in the texture as you move, at 30 you can't do this as you have half the frame rate and you lose a lot of clarity. As I said before, you can make the simple test and see it for yourself. It will be obvious when you do.

Read the thread I linked, plenty of people agree and perhaps someone there will word it in a way you understand.

Your condescending tone pretty much guarantees I'm not going to read your thread. I understand your meaning, it's just not correct.

 

[Peterthumpa]

I'm not sure why you're having difficulty understanding this.

It doesn't create more detail, but 30fps in motion is a loss to clarity in comparison to 60. You have half the frames, and you will be able to see much less precise detail in motion.
And it isn't just about the animations, but the environment you're moving through. The textures on the wall, floor, etc...

At 60, you can make out every tiny detail in the texture as you move, at 30 you can't do this as you have half the frame rate and you lose a lot of clarity. As I said before, you can make the simple test and see it for yourself. It will be obvious when you do.

Read the thread I linked, plenty of people agree and perhaps someone there will word it in a way you understand.

Half the framerate? Now 60 FPS is a standard? What about titles designed to be rendered at 30 FPS, like almost every console game out there? Are they lacking detail? Does The Order 1886 lacks detail to you? What about Batman AK? Come on.

I don't understand your reasoning, sorry.

 

[nib95]

Your condescending tone pretty much guarantees I'm not going to read your thread.

I don't think he understands the point you're trying to make. Also, this particular quote….

At 60, you can make out every tiny detail in the texture as you move, at 30 you can't do this as you have half the frame rate and you lose a lot of clarity.

Is not really true. You might be able to perceive more pre-existing detail, but it's not guaranteed that you'll be able to make out every tiny detail, just as you can't in real life whilst moving either. Most games even replicate the feeling of motion with things like motion blur etc as well, which in itself obscures visible individual details.

 

[Pif]

I would assume some PC game would have the edge graphically against The Order.

The game looks fantastic indeed. I would swap Until Dawn with the Witcher 3 though.

 

[Dragon Puncher]

I feel like MGSV should get some credit as well just for having a pretty good looking game, that runs at a rock solid 60 fps even with a ton of action on the screen. I can't say the top 5 are bad choices though.

 

[Zophar]

Is not really true. You might be able to perceive more pre-existing detail, but it's not guaranteed that you'll be able to make out every tiny detail, just as you can't in real life whilst moving either. Most games even replicate the feeling of motion with things like motion blur etc as well, which in itself obscures visible individual details.

Precisely. Running The Order 1886 at 60fps and taking pains to clarify every detail in motion and in the environment would largely miss the point of its aesthetic goals.

Or if you attempted to run Super Mario Bros at 240hz. Somehow its 3-frame running animation would be clearer because you tripled the framerate?

 

[wazoo]

I would assume some PC game would have the edge graphically against The Order.

Opinion from a random website, It is not even a website, just a youtuber.

 

[Glorious Ownage]

Have you played The Order 1886? It's hands down best looking video game on any platform.

I've played it at 4K maxed out. Only get around 30fps but even still I give the edge to the order. That game legitimately blew me away constantly on the graphics front

 

[Zophar]

I feel like MGSV should get some credit as well just for having a pretty good looking game, that runs at a rock solid 60 fps even with a ton of action on the screen. I can't say the top 5 are bad choices though.

In the video, he talks at decent length regarding its qualities as an honorable mention.

 

[W.S.]

Totally agree with the list.

Anyone want to take an educated guess who'll win 2016' Best grapics award? And why is it Uncharted 4?

It's too early to say.

Horizon Zero Dawn looks amazing but I'm doubtful as to whether that'll release in 2016. I'm sure Uncharted will be ONE of them but Ratchet and Clank looks great and so does Quantum Break, Zelda Wii U, and Fable Legends. I haven't even looked into the multiplatform stuff either.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Opinion from a random website, It is not even a website, just a youtuber.

What does that have to do with one's opinion?

People love to say shit like this as to discredit one's opinion over another.

It is almost as golden as, "who, never heard of him/her" type responses.

 

[Zakalwe]

I don't think he understands the point you're trying to make. Also, this particular quote….

I think it's the other way around.

Is not really true. You might be able to perceive more pre-existing detail, but it's not guaranteed that you'll be able to make out every tiny detail, just as you can't in real life whilst moving either. Most games even replicate the feeling of motion with things like motion blur etc as well, which in itself obscures visible individual details.

Firstly, motion blur can be turned off on pc. Games with forced motion blur lose a lot of points visually for me.

The thing is I know it to be true as I've tested it countless times.

Playing Borderlands 2, for example, at 60fps with physics set to high, when I explode a barrel that sends shrapnel bouncing across the environment, as I run and gun I can clearly make out each piece of shrapnel as it moves. This also helps to give a great sense of the virtual 3d space as I can clearly make out the distance between each partial due to the high level of clarity, and as I move around the particles I can see how they interlink with each other extremely clearly.

At 30fps, I simply cannot see the detail. With half the frames I don't get to see as precise a travel time for each particle, I don't get to see the clarity of their movement or get the same sense of 3d space. It's a definite lose to the detail I can perceive on screen, therefore a loss to the overall quality of the visuals.

If I run past a set of textures at 60fps, say bricks on the wall, I can make out each individual brick. At 3o I cannot as they blur a little as you've lost half the frames.

All of these things add to the overall visual quality of the game.

Again, I may be explaining this poorly and maybe someone in the thread I linked explained it better.

Your condescending tone pretty much guarantees I'm not going to read your thread.

Apologies for that, then. I must have misinterpreted your own tone as I felt as though I was responding in kind. My bad as that's a thoughtless thing to do on my part regardless

Half the framerate? Now 60 FPS is a standard? What about titles designed to be rendered at 30 FPS, like almost every console games out there?

I don't understand your reasoning, sorry.

Half of 60, as these are the two examples I'm using.

I'm not suggesting aside from the idea that FPS and resolution should be considered eye candy generating effects as much as any other visual effect. Every game has a different set of options, and there's trade-off involved in all of them. I'm not suggesting anything about a 60fps standard, nor am I saying fps is the most important factor.

 

[viHuGi]

It's not even a contest in 2016, nothing will top Naughty Dog, you are settling yourself for disappointment if you think Uncharted 4 is not gonna blow everything out of water graphically

Nothing will come close its Naughty Dog we are talking here.

 

[jonno394]

Got to agree with The Order:1886, though not a great game, the visuals and presentation were just astounding.

 

[His Majesty]

Can understand the top-3 but Batman: Arkham Knight is simply overkill on every post-processing option available. Really not impressed with its graphics.

 

[nib95]

It's not even a contest in 2016, nothing will top Naughty Dog, you are settling yourself for disappointment if you think Uncharted 4 is not gonna blow everything out of water graphically

Nothing will come close its Naughty Dog we are talking here.

It's not a foregone conclusion. Mass Effect 4: Andromeda, Star Citzen, Driveclub Expansion 2, Gran Turismo Sport etc, there's certainly some other titles that could still give it a run for it's money.

Playing Borderlands 2, for example, at 60fps with physics set to high, when I explode a barrel that sends shrapnel bouncing across the environment, as I run and gun I can clearly make out each piece of shrapnel as it moves. This also helps to give a great sense of the virtual 3d space as I can clearly make out the distance between each partial due to the high level of clarity, and as I move around the particles I can see how they interlink with each other extremely clearly.

At 30fps, I simply cannot see the detail. With half the frames I don't get to see as precise a travel time for each particle, I don't get to see the clarity of their movement or get the same sense of 3d space. It's a definite lose to the detail I can perceive on screen, therefore a loss to the overall quality of the visuals.

The situation described is definitely the kind of thing that benefits from the added frames, mostly because such things occur so rapidly that the more frames there are of it, the easier those things are to perceive. Those individual pieces of shrapnel are still there at 30fps, they're just harder to make out as there's less frames animating them.

 

[Synless]

Can understand the top-3 but Batman: Arkham Knight is simply overkill on every post-processing option available. Really not impressed with its graphics.

I think Arkham Knight looks incredible. Everything from the rain, the waves, textures, character models and performance.

I agree with the The Order being #1. The game was flat out amazing visually. I enjoyed it more than most gaffers did though and am praying for a sequel.

 

[Sky Saw]

It's not a foregone conclusion. Mass Effect 4: Andromeda, Driveclub Expansion 2, Gran Turismo 7 etc, there's certainly some other titles that could still give it a run for it's money.

Star Citizen?

 

[Peterthumpa]

Half of 60, as these are the two examples I'm using.

I'm not suggesting aside from the idea that FPS and resolution should be considered eye candy generating effects as much as any other visual effect. Every game has a different set of options, and there's trade-off involved in all of them. I'm not suggesting anything about a 60fps standard, nor am I saying fps is the most important factor.

Good explanation. Fair enough, although in my opinion, it doesn't work exactly like that.

I feel sorry for your pocket though, haha.

 

[R1CHO]

Can understand the top-3 but Batman: Arkham Knight is simply overkill on every post-processing option available. Really not impressed with its graphics.

The production is top notch, the level of detail on the scenario is very high. Animations, transitions between running/driving/fliying/cutscenes, overall it all has an amazing level of presentation.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

Star Citizen?

We're talking about 2016, you know...

 

[wazoo]

What does that have to do with one's opinion?

People love to say shit like this as to discredit one's opinion over another.

My point is "you like what he wrote, fine. You did not like it, fine too. You do not like that your prefered game is not 1, make your own video. This is just another guy on the internet."

 

[boredandlazy]

Opinion from a random website, It is not even a website, just a youtuber.

Opinion from a random GAF poster, they are not even a youtuber, just a user.

 

[Sky Saw]

We're talking about 2016, you know...

Last I heard it was due for a 2016 release, has that changed?

 

[cchum]

On consoles I agree. But RaT showed The Order at 60fps on a PC during last SIGGRAPH, so it's a matter of time their next title releases with PC in mind and it will probably blow everything.

Away? Blow everything away?

I agree with this list. Until Dawn is gorgeous too, and it deserves to be on the list or as an honorable mention.

 

[Auctopus]

It's not even a contest in 2016, nothing will top Naughty Dog, you are settling yourself for disappointment if you think Uncharted 4 is not gonna blow everything out of water graphically

Nothing will come close its Naughty Dog we are talking here.

avatarquote.jpg

Ugh, calm down. Take off the fanboy glasses and stop making claims about games that aren't out yet.

Yes, UC4 is going to look great but you don't need to shun other games. There will always be surprises.

 

[Pif]

Opinion from a random website, It is not even a website, just a youtuber.

He analyses graphics with a lot of technical jargon. Clearly above the average person in that regard. I'd still respect his opinion.

You are also just a random post from a random internet person.

 

[bigboss370]

Yeah, The Order deserves that #1 spot. Best looking video game to date, and polished as fuck too.

 

[The Artisan]

It's not even a contest in 2016, nothing will top Naughty Dog, you are settling yourself for disappointment if you think Uncharted 4 is not gonna blow everything out of water graphically

Nothing will come close its Naughty Dog we are talking here.

there have been several devs, at least last gen that've matched or even outdone ND's work last gen. I think the snowstorm in Kz3 looked better than Uc2's.

furthermore, EA dice were able to pull off the visuals of star wars while keeping the game up to 60fps yeah? something ND struggled with and ultimately dropped.

 

[Fredrik]

60fps has plenty of advantages, but more detail is not an objective quality as you stated

I think you're missing his point. He simply says that more frames per second keeps objects in motion crisp and clear even if they move quickly over the screen, with lower fps you can't get that. Simple as that. There is no magic to fix this, you either have to hide the stuttery motion with motion blur or move the objects slower, with a game like The Order this isn't really a problem since it's so slow but faster moving games often gets a kind of muddy look in motion because of this.

 

[wazoo]

You are also just a random post from a random internet person.

I am not making any list.

 

[Dictator93]

Precisely. Running The Order 1886 at 60fps and taking pains to clarify every detail in motion and in the environment would largely miss the point of its aesthetic goals.

Or if you attempted to run Super Mario Bros at 240hz. Somehow its 3-frame running animation would be clearer because you tripled the framerate?

You are using a broken analogy. The order's graphical rendering: animation interpolation, temporal sampling, etc. all gets better looking at higher frame rates. It is how rasterized graphics work that do not use fixed time steps (i.e. iterpolate). On the contrary, no frame rate, beyond making the game scroll better and animate sprite positions better, will add more discrete animation frames to super mario bros.

Every game that follows basic rules of how most games are rendered look better at higher framerates. The order is not nearly filmic enough in how it does its rendering for the opposite to be true.

We're talking about 2016, you know...

Last I heard it was due for a 2016 release, has that changed?

Star Citizen is not launching 2016, but Squadron 42 (its single player campaign) is planned for 2016.
//////

I personally think that Battlefront deserves more praise than the order in general due to keepinga 60hz refresh rate while maintaining a scarily similar over-all quality of rendering and rendering features. The order though does a lot of the same things... better.... on console at least: skin rendering, micro-detail on third person models (more geometry), and higher quality motion blur, higher quality DOF (on console).

 

[nib95]

there have been several devs, at least last gen that've matched or even outdone ND's work last gen. I think the snowstorm in Kz3 looked better than Uc2's.

When you look at what EA pulled off with Battlefront, a 60fps multiplayer game, the mind boggles to imagine what they could pull of with the same engine at 30fps with Mass Effect 4. I can't wait.

 

[Zakalwe]

I think you're missing his point. He simply says that more frames per second keeps objects in motion crisp and clear even if they moves quickly over the screen, with lower fps you can't get that. Simple as that. There is no magic to fix this, you either have to hide the stuttery motion with motion blur or move the objects slower, with a game like The Order this isn't really a problem since it's so slow but faster moving games often gets a kind of muddy look in motion because of this.

This might be a better way to explain it, thanks. :3

 

[Pif]

there have been several devs, at least last gen that've matched or even outdone ND's work last gen. I think the snowstorm in Kz3 looked better than Uc2's.

furthermore, EA dice were able to pull off the visuals of star wars while keeping the game up to 60fps yeah? something ND struggled with and ultimately dropped.

900p. 720p on xbone if I recall correctly.

 

[jmga]

It's not even a contest in 2016, nothing will top Naughty Dog, you are settling yourself for disappointment if you think Uncharted 4 is not gonna blow everything out of water graphically

Nothing will come close its Naughty Dog we are talking here.

We have already seen several footage from U4 and it is not that impressive if you compare with titles like Battlefront or The Order.

We will probably see things better than U4.

 

[Zakalwe]

We have already seen several footage from U4 and it is not that impressive if you compare with titles like Battlefront or The Order.

We will probably see things better than U4.

What about the animations? Is TO better than U4 in that regard, facial animations especially?

 

[eFKac]

Definitely agree with the first two.

Both fantastic looking games, the only ones I've played this year to make me go wow because of the visuals.

And even though they look very different and are rather hard to compare I would also put The Order on top based purely on visuals.

 

[The Artisan]

When you look at what EA pulled off with Battlefront, a 60fps multiplayer game, the mind boggles to imagine what they could pull of with the same engine at 30fps with Mass Effect 4. I can't wait.

fuck that, make Me4 60fps too!

900p. 720p on xbone if I recall correctly.

the important thing to take away from this in my opinion, is how amazing the visuals are at 60fps, regardless of having to sacrifice the resolution.

 

[Bioshocker]

Cant' argue too much with that list. Rise of the Tom Raider is a stunning looking game, and The Order: 1886 has the best visuals tech wise in 2015. Although I'm in love with both Ori and Tearaway Unfolded on another level. Those two games look amazing.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

fuck that, make Me4 60fps too!

the important thing to take away from this in my opinion, is how amazing the visuals are at 60fps, regardless of having to sacrifice the resolution.

BF visuals are fantastic, it can easily keep up with UC4 on a screenshot-duel. Thing is, if everything is set in motion, UC4 sense for insane details makes the difference. But yes, I am biased on this one, for whatever reason.

 

[wapplew]

It's not even a contest in 2016, nothing will top Naughty Dog, you are settling yourself for disappointment if you think Uncharted 4 is not gonna blow everything out of water graphically

Nothing will come close its Naughty Dog we are talking here.

I love ND but they are human too. Post like that will make enemy.
Plenty of dev are as good if not better than ND in graphic department. Just look at some battlefront screenshot on PC, it's photorealistic in 4K and 60fps multiplayer.
I think it's pretty save to say that look better than UC4 multiplayer beta.

 

[drotahorror]

there have been several devs, at least last gen that've matched or even outdone ND's work last gen. I think the snowstorm in Kz3 looked better than Uc2's.

furthermore, EA dice were able to pull off the visuals of star wars while keeping the game up to 60fps yeah? something ND struggled with and ultimately dropped.

I'm no wizard but I think ND could drop U4 down to 720p and keep the 1080p single player graphics and 60fps. They opted for IQ though.

 

[KKRT00]

Battlefront should deserve the top spot for sure. The details in environments are just unprecedented and they've actually managed to run it at stable 60fps on consoles.

 

[The Artisan]

BF visuals are fantastic, it can easily keep up with UC4 on a screenshot-duel. Thing is, if everything is set in motion, UC4 sense for insane details makes the difference. But yes, I am biased on this one, for whatever reason.

if you say so, man. keep in mind though, this "Uc4 sense for insane details" is what ND was shooting for at 60fps, but couldn't keep up with.

I'm no wizard but I think ND could drop U4 down to 720p and keep the 1080p single player graphics and 60fps. They opted for IQ though.

not exactly sure what you mean?

 

[kpaadet]

It's not even a contest in 2016, nothing will top Naughty Dog, you are settling yourself for disappointment if you think Uncharted 4 is not gonna blow everything out of water graphically

Nothing will come close its Naughty Dog we are talking here.

Dude you need to calm down a bit, we get it you like Uncharted/ND. But there are plenty of great looking games coming out this year so settle down.

 

[bj00rn_]

And i just noticed...

5. Until Dawn - PS4 exclusive.
4. Batman Arkham Knight - PC port sucks?
3. Rise of the Tom Braider - On Xbox One, slightly inferior to PS4 and PC.
2. Star Wars Battlefront - Multiplatform.
1. The Order 1886 - PS4 exclusive.

I don't think you need to spend a lot of money on a powerful PC to experience pretty graphics.

Nxgamer is a Sony fan first and foremost. It's plausible that affects his choices.

 

[The Artisan]

Nxgamer is a Sony fan first and foremost. It's plausible that affects his choices.

that's only because he's more impressed by their technical aspects, I think.

he's a ND fan first and foremost I think, and sony owns them.

 

[NeoRaider]

It's not even a contest in 2016, nothing will top Naughty Dog, you are settling yourself for disappointment if you think Uncharted 4 is not gonna blow everything out of water graphically

Nothing will come close its Naughty Dog we are talking here.

Lol, 2016 just started few days ago.
But nice try.

 

[RoboPlato]

Anyone else really love the point in rendering we've hit this gen? Both Battlefront and The Order are benchmark games, gorgeous and hold their performance targets quite well. I adore the look of both games.