-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
NYPD kill a man after he breaks up a fight between others.
- Thread starter params7
- Start date
- Status
Interfectum
Member
How come riots broke out after Rodney King yet this horrible case doesn't seem as inflammatory as the former? I know, it's a confluence and ammalgation of different factors, but this is straight up murder with severe racial undertones and power relationships resulting in death.
Or is the fear of simply existing as a Black man in the US too commonplace, too overpowering and too destructive for people to muster a reaction? I can't even imagine what it's like to live in constant fear of one's life in either death or a horrible US prison - hell, I wouldn't even know how I could continue living on considering all the racist bullshit from society, media, economy, history(!), employment, housing policies, education, legal system, prison system, etc. And this case seems like an obvious result of contemporary racist society with all its heavy bagage and burdens on the ones oppressed.
Or is the fear of simply existing as a Black man in the US too commonplace, too overpowering and too destructive for people to muster a reaction? I can't even imagine what it's like to live in constant fear of one's life in either death or a horrible US prison - hell, I wouldn't even know how I could continue living on considering all the racist bullshit from society, media, economy, history(!), employment, housing policies, education, legal system, prison system, etc. And this case seems like an obvious result of contemporary racist society with all its heavy bagage and burdens on the ones oppressed.
Yeah nothing at all.
Did you even read what I was replying to? I meant the choke wasn't that bad as to cause death to the average person.
BronsonLee
Member
You sure about that there, BJ Penn?
What are you talking about? This man was killed by a choke hold
FreedomFighter
Member
I think we're being desensitized to police violence - it's become normalized.
Black men have every reason to distrust police but I think the general public is getting hip to it all now that police and the criminal justice system as an institution became overzealous and started sweeping white suburban kids up into entrapment schemes and cash-for-kids scandals.
Well he wasn't the average person. He was asthmatic.
"But the police didn't know that."
Right, and there are a lot of healthproblems that could get problematic when this kind of hold is applied. Which is exactly why it is banned.
"But he could say something!"
Like... 'I can't breath! I can't breath! I can't breath!'?
"But he was struggeling!"
Because he literally was dying at that moment. It's natural for the body to try everything to function again.
After the hundreds of chokes I have seen, I think so.
BronsonLee
Member
Consider you say you saw the guy just resisting arrest, I'm not sure I can trust your eyes.
Or your judgement.
Also a hearty lol at the 'hundreds of chokes that I have seen', because lord knows you've seen a technique being improperly used hundreds of times for far longer than it should have!
Riots broke out after the acquittal of the cops who beat Rodney King. I think it is a fear of what the police have become. Quite a few police agencies have become militarized and are seen as untouchable by the general public.
Bill Maher talks about what police agencies are becoming.
http://youtu.be/b7JADq4tTsc
What else do you call it when one pulls away from being cuffed? I'm going off some major ones where guys have already been unconscious and are still getting choked. This guy had the ability to talk after the choke was let go.
Nope, did not need that in my day. Simply disgusting.
"Oh we have no evidence that his gun was ever fired,
and all the gunshots are into his back,
and we have witnesses that say he was forced to the ground on his stomach, no resistance
AND the police testimonies don't match up
AND there is direct evidence that police are lying about the situation (headlights were on)
...
but it's ok you can trust us, we're the police after all!"
"Hmm, sounds reasonable! 40 years!"
The most disgusting part is how they "celebrated" the conviction. Absolutely revolting.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
Why are you defending a technique that even the NYPD considers an unacceptable and dangerous form of restraint?
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
Woah, ease down on that imagination there, partner! You can't take the extreme negatives a few people of one group suffer and portray that as the common experience. That's pretty much a form of marginalization.
With that thinking you start to subconsciously look for anything and everything that fits your view to confirm its existence, which is pretty much as bad as pretending it doesn't exist when there's clear-cut evidence in the first place.
To twist a quote from one of my favorite movies, "You want to find [racism] in the world, you will be able to find it everywhere. [Racism] from a mere street corner to your front door. [Racism while] riding on the elevator. When your mind becomes obsessed with anything, you will filter everything else out and find that thing everywhere."
Generally speaking, people in NYC don't riot and destroy their city compared to other cities like LA.
Not even surprised, I posted a link to the article/video on facebook and a guy came to the defense of the officers and was crying about the negative perception of cops.
Guess his field of work.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
#notallcops
Finally watched the video... ugh.
I honestly have a bigger fear of NYPD than I do the Taliban or Al-Queda. And I've been through a multi-block shutdown and building evacuation in Times Square due to a bomb scare.
"Bin Laden been happening in Manhattan
Crack was anthrax back then, back when
police were Al-Queda to black men"
I honestly have a bigger fear of NYPD than I do the Taliban or Al-Queda. And I've been through a multi-block shutdown and building evacuation in Times Square due to a bomb scare.
"Bin Laden been happening in Manhattan
Crack was anthrax back then, back when
police were Al-Queda to black men"
Sho_Nuff82
Member
I posted about this after the Treyvon Martin verdict, but it's not really accurate to call it a fear anymore. Fear would imply an irrationality or even a dread. It's simply knowing at this point. I know, as an African American, that my life is statistically worth less than those of other races. I know that I'm more likely to be stopped, pulled over, searched, harassed, humiliated, slurred, beaten, or killed, even if I've done nothing wrong. The evidence is so overwhelming that dwelling on it constantly would drive you mad, almost like dwelling on the inevitability of death and taxes.
So I just live my life. If shit happens, it happens. I won't be surprised. I won't give them the satisfaction of begging, either.
theignoramus
Member
of course they do, because they see nothing wrong with the status quo and direct hostility towards those that do.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
No offense or anything but this sounds like a very self-defeatist mentality to carry.
The riots in LA were not simply because Rodney King got his ass beat. That was just what broke the camels back. There was plenty leading up to that. One of the major ones being the assassination of a 14 year old African American girl in a korean shop by racist store owners assuming she was trying to steal some milk(although she had the money to pay in her hand when they shot her). LA was boiling over long before Rodney King set off the storm.
Your last paragraph seems dramatic. As a brown person in America in the 21st century you are living in a state of revolution. You are occupied like any other occupied group on earth. With that in mind you must also think like an occupied person. That means the main objective should be conquering oppression. I feel that is where a lot of the older generation let kids down.
Many from my generation are sheltered so badly that they dont have the tools to protect themselves when the reality of their occupation smacks them in the face. This is what you see when some person is shocked and does the whole "Its 2014! THIS CANT BE HAPPENING" thing.That is where I feel revolutionary brothers and sisters need to come and educate people. You have the tools, and base, to deal with occupation when you know you are not in it alone. You have people out here suffering alone because the outreach has not been there for them. On the whole though I feel people dont want revolution. They want to be Americans. They want to embrace the title of their oppressors. They want to be him. They dont want to have to struggle, get that ass beating, ruffle those feathers, and to shake the core with which they stand to lose everything to gain true freedom. In the end though that is fine. True revolutionary brothers and sisters know not every person wants in. Some just want to live this illusion of life they have. The reality must be that if they accept this, then you must also be willing to be at the whim of your oppressor.
I don't see what's self-defeatist about it. Me personally I thought things would be better by now. I'm in my 30s, there's just no way in hell white society will ever see blacks as equals (this trickles down to how other minorities view blacks as well). Society views me as a nigger and there's not much I can do about it but prove people that interact with me individually wrong. Black people unfortunately are living the Sixth Sense in America, we have a special kind of existence and live on a different plane than most americans.
Neither. Unions contrary to recent shenanigans are loyal to the people they represent. An organization of employees for employees.
What bothers me is that this type of legal protection is easily available to cops and the rich but rarely anyone else.
If you're in your 30s that means you were born either in the later 1970s or early 1980s. In the time you have seen from your life to now what exactly makes you think things would have got better by now?
Two centuries ago Frederick Douglass said power concedes nothing without demand. We can't expect things to magically get better when our generation has done fuck all in terms of revolutionary action.
Seen being the key word here. I used to train with MMA guys, teaching them amateur wrestling moves. For fun I'd ask them to teach me some submissions. Once you lock in a rear-naked, it takes minimal effort from you to choke a guy out. Especially a guy with his hands behind his back. Add to the fact that he's asthmatic and already emotionally stressed from the situation, that choke hold would do.
Such a tragic incident.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Maybe because he agrees with that form of restraint.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
I just imagine these same people going "why did you resist, mom" when it happens to her. "That choke hold on my mother seemed appropriate."
A human being died for no reason in daylight on a sidewalk in the city from the hands of a professional company. Our usual criminal murderers aren't even this foul.
A human being died for no reason in daylight on a sidewalk in the city from the hands of a professional company. Our usual criminal murderers aren't even this foul.
Just read the last few pages and am still baffled that a) what the guy's doing is considered "resisting" and b) that this somehow justifies the cops just murdering him.
He has every right to argue with the cops, especially since they made up BS reasons to harrass him for no reason. If they can't respond in any other way than to murder him they aren't law enforcement as much as murdering scum.
He has every right to argue with the cops, especially since they made up BS reasons to harrass him for no reason. If they can't respond in any other way than to murder him they aren't law enforcement as much as murdering scum.
I was a rather naive youth.
Police are silent = #notallcops
Community is silent = LOL stop snitchin herpderplmao
Master_Funk
Member
This is one of the most cringe worthy videos I have ever seen. Its absolutely disgusting and heartbreaking. Hope that guy rots in jail, though I expect he won't
itzknickknac
Member
My god. I can't even finish watching the video.
The thing is that wouldn't necessarily qualify as resisting. Before the cops approach him his hands was in the air and he didn't make an attempt to flee. What the police officers should have done was calm him down.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
Half of reality (or at least part of it) is what others perceive of you. But most of it is of what you perceive yourself to be. Those other people...what do they matter? It isn't your job to be on a life mission to change their opinion, you're just supposed to pursue happiness. If those are their opinions, it is up to them to grow a brain and begin learning about reality outside of indoctrinating systems.
But some of it goes back to a self-perception problem, and lack of self-confidence. I can't totally blame the people who feel that way, given the ever-repetitious images media continues to recycle (which inevitably destroy self-confidence). And I can't even completely blame a lot of the people who come to believe those as the true reality, because most people are too lazy to think for themselves or go against rigid systems recycling those tired messages. But I've already said what I have to say about those individuals.
The real problem is a lot of black people in America today do not know about their heritage and history, and the only bits they DO know are the negative aspects. Every ethnic group has negative parts of their heritage, but by and large they also seem to balance that out with knowledge on the uplifting and positive aspects of their history. Black Americans, on the whole, do not do this. Part of the problem is the dependence on media to teach it, but media has no interest or responsibility to do so, and going into the factors for that is a discussion in itself. When such messages or images are given, they tend to be superficial (which in a sense is the case for all groups when it comes to media) and only set to trends for the sake of money. You won't find real worth there.
If black Americans came to know more about the parts of their history (and black people in general) that aren't related to racism, slavery etc., and taught that instead to youth, that would empower so many mentally. You wouldn't have a need for tripe like "The New Black" or w/e that mess is about; you'd have knowledge on real history, real information, and actual uplifting messages.
With that comes self-confidence and with self-confidence comes ambition, and with that eventually comes success. And of course, there will be individuals within and without who don't want that, but they can be dealt with along the way.
You're right. Right now two cops are sitting on deskjobs during the investigation. But apparently the latest investigation report fails to mention the illegal chokehold. It's probably not important, yes.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Hmmmm.......
Are you reacting to the content of my post or did I state a fact wrong? If so, please don't hold back. If I'm spouting bullshit tell me.
justanotheruserofgaf
Banned
Those doing the riots in LA were gang members not ordinary citizens. Same time that white truck driver was being beaten in the same location black gang members were beaten a hispanic man nearly to death and this was also captured on the same footage that captured Reginald Denny also being beaten and robbed. The gangs were planning on doing riots and looting the day of the verdict.
Something similar happened to my dad. He saw a drunk guy fighting a cop (and the cop was losing). He jumped in, beat the crap out of the guy as other cops showed up and started hitting my dad with their clubs and choking him with their sticks, still has breathing problems.
No good deed as they say....
No good deed as they say....
When Hannah Arendt was covering the trial of SS officer Adolf Eichmann she coined the phrase "the banality of evil" and I think this is what we see in the video.
What's in that video is as bad as any villian in a movie, any terrorist, any gangster. The man said "I'm tired of you harrassing me when I haven't done anything wrong" and they fucking killed him right on the spot.
It's all so normal, so every-day, so common feeling. It's just so banal but you have to realise that this is true evil. This is a form of monstrous tyranny. They effectively have authority to kill at will and the rest will be glossed over with paperwork and a bunch of worthless explanations and excuses. Oh it was an accident!
Black people being denied air has been an ongoing accident since slavery. My final remark is this particular accidental killing was done very quickly and professionally. That poor man only got a few "I can't breathes" in before the accident took place.
What's in that video is as bad as any villian in a movie, any terrorist, any gangster. The man said "I'm tired of you harrassing me when I haven't done anything wrong" and they fucking killed him right on the spot.
It's all so normal, so every-day, so common feeling. It's just so banal but you have to realise that this is true evil. This is a form of monstrous tyranny. They effectively have authority to kill at will and the rest will be glossed over with paperwork and a bunch of worthless explanations and excuses. Oh it was an accident!
Black people being denied air has been an ongoing accident since slavery. My final remark is this particular accidental killing was done very quickly and professionally. That poor man only got a few "I can't breathes" in before the accident took place.
Narpas Sword0
Member
Well you might need glasses because it was in fact fatal
justanotheruserofgaf
Banned
The guy had been arrested over 30 times for doing the same illegal action that he knew was illegal and that would get him arrested. It's hard to put blame on the police when they are dealing with a notorious repeat offender. He refused to be put in handcuffs instead he became irate and hostile.
Since slavery in Africa existed thousands of years before the first European slave trader set foot there and slavery in Africa still exists today with 1/3 to 40% of the b;acl population in several countries being slaves to the Arab population, how come black people are still breathing today?
Fenderputty
Banned
I'm wondering the same thing ...
It's hard to blame a police officer for killing an unarmed guy not committing a violent crime? Really?
Also that African slave myth needs to be called out. The place where Europeans took the people who would become African Americans didn't write so Europeans don't know a damn thing they did for thousands of years, much less their process of servitude nor terms of their class based societies.
This. This gets me really, really upset.
My father had a serious drug and alcohol problem and when police would show up at my house after neighbors heard him they would give him a serious beat down to arrest him. I was only 12 at the time and to this day I wish I had the courage to stand up to those fucking clowns.
I'm sure there are some decent cops but these guys should be punished severely.
My father had a serious drug and alcohol problem and when police would show up at my house after neighbors heard him they would give him a serious beat down to arrest him. I was only 12 at the time and to this day I wish I had the courage to stand up to those fucking clowns.
I'm sure there are some decent cops but these guys should be punished severely.
- Status