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[Teddman]

I liked Apple better when they were all about OS X and weren't trying to shoehorn iPhone OS onto all of their new products. They have been more aggressive about trying to funnel media playback and internet access on their devices through iTunes and other "walled garden" apps.

Apple has definitely lost their public image edge on Microsoft... They're more openly controlling and profit-hungry these days. Google is at least more about open source and open standards. For example:

The Microsofting of Apple

Google CEO Eric Schmidt is quick to admit Google's competition is just "one click away," but Google's model works because it does so much to foster "one-click" open access to its services. The more people on the Web, the more will use Google.
So Google open-sources the Web, as it were.

Not Apple. It's a phenomenally successful company, but its strategy is the inverse of Google's. Apple is all about creating a closed (but enticing) ecosystem, one that becomes more closed with every device, as Tom Foremski cogently argues. It's a bit more like Microsoft every day.

 

[trinest]

Google should just buy Apple and let this shit end.

 

[numble]

Google should just buy Apple and let this shit end.

With AAPL at a higher market capitalization than GOOG?

 

[Deleted member 1235]

google could lose this war and be alright.

Apple would hurt bad (they still have macs, but iphone is massive)

 

[Mecha_Infantry]

As consumers we really shouldn't feed into this corporate hype

I have a mac and promote macs, I use Google and have a Nexus One. Everything else doesn't concern me unless their directly and personally provide a service just to me. Since they don't they can duel it out and what not

 

[El Papa]

As consumers we really shouldn't feed into this corporate hype

I have a mac and promote macs, I use Google and have a Nexus One. Everything else doesn't concern me unless their directly and personally provide a service just to me. Since they don't they can duel it out and what not

Apple's lawsuit against HTC specifically mentions the Nexus One and Android. If Apple had it's way you won't be seeing you pretty N1 and Android 2.xx updates (multi-touch among others). I'm sure they'd like to see Android buried.

 

[Stat Flow]

If Apple had it's way you won't be seeing you pretty N1 and Android 2.xx updates (multi-touch among others). I'm sure they'd like to see Android buried.

Yeah, pretty much.

Fuck that noise.

 

[Baki]

Console wars are old news! It's all about smart phone wars now!

I'm with Google. But thats only because APPLE milks its consumers.

 

[Chittagong]

The media transformation of Apple over the last two years has been noting short of amazing.

The portrayal of Apple went from a lovable underdog from the birth era of iPod / OSX / early iPhone to a raging megalomaniac. It happened seemingly overnight. Somehow the whole atmosphere around Apple changed.

I think this has been evident in the media stories, too. While Apple / Jobs were the poster boy from 2002-2008, last year saw them emerge as evil. Instead of innovation and hipness, most visible articles seemed to focus on the negative - be it AppStore submissions, MacBook failures, internal Gestapo, competitor suing, child labor in subcontracting or the Google rivalry.

A perception of "big and evil" coupled with the sky high expectations is a bad recipe - as was evident in the cold / negative reception to the iPad introduction.

I guess the backlash was inevitable for anything so popular - still didn't think I'd see it coming.

 

[MightyKAC]

If I had to take a (uneducated ) guess I'd based on what I read from the article , I'd say that Job's is watching this whole scenario and seeing what happened to the mac in the late 80's happening all over again with the Iphone. And it looks like he's willing to do just about anything to keep it from happening.

 

[layzie1989]

As long as they keep pushing each other to release better technology, I'm the winner.

 

[Mecha_Infantry]

Apple's lawsuit against HTC specifically mentions the Nexus One and Android. If Apple had it's way you won't be seeing you pretty N1 and Android 2.xx updates (multi-touch among others). I'm sure they'd like to see Android buried.

To me that doesn't matter much as I believe the iPhone is the better phone!

 

[blame space]

If I had to take a (uneducated ) guess I'd based on what I read from the article , I'd say that Job's is watching this whole scenario and seeing what happened to the mac in the late 80's happening all over again with the Iphone. And it looks like he's willing to do just about anything to keep it from happening.

what was that?

 

[Pachael]

And here I was reading about the 'Microsofting of Google', which has seen itself in more than usual privacy and 'monopoly' concerns - the latter I think is a bit of a beatup by the EU courts, however there's something to be said about leaving a lot of a person's life tied up to just one corporation. (Microsoft was in this position circa killing Netscape).

Of course, alot of this talk comes from The Register, so take that with ten tons of salt.

 

[Chittagong]

what was that?

Somehow Apple sees itself as the original "inventor" of a certain technology while they were actually just the ones with the skills to take it to mainstream. And because they've the ones who popularized the technology, they feel it's only appropriate that they can be the only ones to use it from there on.

They are especially irritated of companies with "no sense of style" taking over the market with something they perceive is "their technology" (quotes are Apple's). Same happened with Windows vs. Mac OS, same will happen with iPhone OS vs. Android + Symbian. Both are arguably less pure in aesthetics but will cater the mass market.

Apple just doesn't get it. The way to prevent that from happening is not through control, it's through catering those markets better yourself. A phone with a true average selling price of over 600USD is leaving doors wide open for competition, and if Apple believes they can beat the heavyweights out from the market in the courtroom they are just mistaken.

 

[womp]

The thing is, even if others catch up, that would be in just a single product, they don't have a bunch of services available under just one account like Google does.

With one account, I can check my email, documents, pictures, blog, messenger, business information, etc...

Which is why I love and want to have sex with my Droid.

 

[El Papa]

To me that doesn't matter much as I believe the iPhone is the better phone!

...You're just not making sense now, bro.

 

[sonicmj1]

what was that?

To make it clearer, Apple originally popularized the home PC with the Apple II in the 1980s. Then IBM standardized the chips and Microsoft standardized the operating system, leaving Apple to languish at the outer limits of computer and OS market share for two decades.

I could imagine parallels with the current situation.

 

[POWERSPHERE]

Apple increasingly scares the shit out of me. Total control over what users can do with their software, decreasing usability with software 'upgrades', like iMovie & Quicktime... Might go back to PC if this continues.

 

[iamblades]

To make it clearer, Apple originally popularized the home PC with the Apple II in the 1980s. Then IBM standardized the chips and Microsoft standardized the operating system, leaving Apple to languish at the outer limits of computer and OS market share for two decades.

I could imagine parallels with the current situation.

I think apple needs to learn the lesson that closed systems never beat open systems in the long run.

They could have been Microsoft if they weren't so tyrannical in locking their software to their hardware. Their shortsighted attempts to protect their margins on their hardware are completely anti consumer.

Fuck em, I hope google kills them.

 

[Stat Flow]

As long as they keep pushing each other to release better technology, I'm the winner.

Sounds good, right, competition (especially in the technology market) is absolutely ideal for the consumer...I don't think Apple wants that to happen. They just want to shut out Android and control everything.

They might've been too late. If they don't blow open some new doors with iOS 4.0 this year, Android may have grown very large by the time they do reach that point.

Also, what would've happened with the ever so popular (and for some good reasons actually) iPod if Microsoft didn't allow iTunes to be compatible with the PC? :|

 

[deadhorse32]

A bunch of interesting blog entries about Apple/Patents/Control

http://daringfireball.net/2010/03/regarding_old_apple_microsoft_suit
http://benfry.com/writing/archives/608
http://jonathanischwartz.wordpress.com/2010/03/09/good-artists-copy-great-artists-steal/

Edit : http://daringfireball.net/2010/03/this_apple_htc_patent_thing

 

[Stat Flow]

A bunch of interesting blog entries about Apple/Patents/Control

http://daringfireball.net/2010/03/regarding_old_apple_microsoft_suit
http://benfry.com/writing/archives/608
http://jonathanischwartz.wordpress.com/2010/03/09/good-artists-copy-great-artists-steal/

It's funny that if a person buys a product, Jobs believes that they shouldn't be able to do whatever they want to/with it.

Oh, and that last dude owned Jobs. :lol

 

[deadhorse32]

If I had to take a (uneducated ) guess I'd based on what I read from the article , I'd say that Job's is watching this whole scenario and seeing what happened to the mac in the late 80's happening all over again with the Iphone. And it looks like he's willing to do just about anything to keep it from happening.

Yep replace Microsoft with Google and you have basically the same story.

 

[Mecha_Infantry]

...You're just not making sense now, bro.

How?

The Apple suits are based on Android features that orignated with the iPhone. If Apple go ahead and block those on Android it means nothing as Android is using Apple tech to keep up with the iPhone. I can just easily switch back to the iPhone, it's not really a big deal

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I am a fan of both companies, but I don't mind them fighting as long as Android isn't hampered by it.

Jobs is a douche, but this is decades-old news and his products (generally) rock.

 

[Haunted]

niiice. Infighting among big companies is awesome, reminds us that there are still humans at the top, not just corporate machines.

Here's hoping more pot shots are made public in the future.

 

[Pimpwerx]

Apple makes devices, but Google controls the internet. Google will win this one. Apple should form an alliance instead of trying to swim upstream. Google is gonna own us all eventually. PEACE.

 

[Dilbert]

Oh, I think this does sound personal. There are business reasons, sure, but I think Jobs is probably personally offended at the nonstop crop of imitators. Remember what he said about Microsoft?

The only problem with Microsoft is they just have no taste. They have absolutely no taste. And I don't mean that in a small way, I mean that in a big way, in the sense that they don't think of original ideas, and they don't bring much culture into their products.

That sounds like the same situation with Google. The various Android phones, however good, are basically a "me too" implementation of the iPhone, but without the attention to detail and end user experience which is so personally important to Jobs.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Oh, I think this does sound personal. There are business reasons, sure, but I think Jobs is probably personally offended at the nonstop crop of imitators. Remember what he said about Microsoft?

That sounds like the same situation with Google. The various Android phones, however good, are basically a "me too" implementation of the iPhone, but without the attention to detail and end user experience which is so personally important to Jobs.

I think that misses the mark describing Android, actually.

 

[Pimpwerx]

Oh, I think this does sound personal. There are business reasons, sure, but I think Jobs is probably personally offended at the nonstop crop of imitators. Remember what he said about Microsoft?

That sounds like the same situation with Google. The various Android phones, however good, are basically a "me too" implementation of the iPhone, but without the attention to detail and end user experience which is so personally important to Jobs.

Wrong on so many levels. Android multitasks and is more customizable than the iPhone. It's also open-source, so we have tons of ROMs out there. Google is ahead of Apple when talking about the user experience. PEACE.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

The media transformation of Apple over the last two years has been noting short of amazing.

The portrayal of Apple went from a lovable underdog from the birth era of iPod / OSX / early iPhone to a raging megalomaniac. It happened seemingly overnight. Somehow the whole atmosphere around Apple changed.

I think this has been evident in the media stories, too. While Apple / Jobs were the poster boy from 2002-2008, last year saw them emerge as evil. Instead of innovation and hipness, most visible articles seemed to focus on the negative - be it AppStore submissions, MacBook failures, internal Gestapo, competitor suing, child labor in subcontracting or the Google rivalry.

A perception of "big and evil" coupled with the sky high expectations is a bad recipe - as was evident in the cold / negative reception to the iPad introduction.

I guess the backlash was inevitable for anything so popular - still didn't think I'd see it coming.

...and yet, at least on pre-order day, the iPad was registering like 10,000 orders per hour.

crazy. I wonder how many of those people realize they're not getting a device that will replace their computers?

 

[wave dial]

A difference between the two companies is in how they publically talk about competition:
Apple gets angry about competition--they aren't thinking about how it benefits the consumer
Google will encourage competition, even with Bing (what they think might be another matter)

 

[Vyer]

Guess Jobs was really pissed at Droid's first shot while he was away. :lol

...and yet, at least on pre-order day, the iPad was registering like 10,000 orders per hour.

crazy. I wonder how many of those people realize they're not getting a device that will replace their computers?

Lots of people probably are. We always forget the real numbers of the mainstream out in the world. And lots of those people aren't really doing much of anything than getting on the internet and checking their email.

 

[Stat Flow]

That sounds like the same situation with Google. The various Android phones, however good, are basically a "me too" implementation of the iPhone, but without the attention to detail and end user experience which is so personally important to Jobs.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[cartoon_soldier]

I think Microsoft should emerge as the victor of this war.

crazy. I wonder how many of those people realize they're not getting a device that will replace their computers?

Does it matter?

Its by Apple, buy buy buy buy buy.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Somehow Apple sees itself as the original "inventor" of a certain technology while they were actually just the ones with the skills to take it to mainstream. And because they've the ones who popularized the technology, they feel it's only appropriate that they can be the only ones to use it from there on.

They are especially irritated of companies with "no sense of style" taking over the market with something they perceive is "their technology" (quotes are Apple's). Same happened with Windows vs. Mac OS, same will happen with iPhone OS vs. Android + Symbian. Both are arguably less pure in aesthetics but will cater the mass market.

Apple just doesn't get it. The way to prevent that from happening is not through control, it's through catering those markets better yourself. A phone with a true average selling price of over 600USD is leaving doors wide open for competition, and if Apple believes they can beat the heavyweights out from the market in the courtroom they are just mistaken.

on the contrary, Apple's OS caters to the masses. in fact, that's really the whole point. it's probably one of the easiest proprietary systems to use in the computing world.

and because many consumers are just getting into the world of dealing with all of these media formats and such, for many...their first experiences will become their "standards". so Apple doesn't really lose ground there.

I like the form and fashion of the Droid and Nexus One...but it's really Apple's AppStore that represents the difference between the products. well...and the name brand that has slowly built itself up over a decade of blood, sweat and tears. nobody has a brandable rival "store"...and I think most people are happy not having to go to 20 websites to find applications.

the ease and convenience are hard forces to overcome. I'm not sure how MS, Google, Samsung, Palm, or RIM beat that.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Guess Jobs was really pissed at Droid's first shot while he was away. :lol



Lots of people probably are. We always forget the real numbers of the mainstream out in the world. And lots of those people aren't really doing much of anything than getting on the internet and checking their email.

you're totally right.

if I know one thing, it's that Apple fairly accurately knows how to cater to the majority of consumers. the truth is that the only things that this device doesn't do that the mainstream will actually *miss* are printing, flash, and multitasking. it does everything else, and chances are that future updates will resolve at least the multitasking issue.

and who knows..maybe printer companies will begin to release printer "apps" or something to make use of printers on your home network. probably not...but it's fun to dream.

 

[LCfiner]

It's funny that if a person buys a product, Jobs believes that they shouldn't be able to do whatever they want to/with it.

Oh, and that last dude owned Jobs. :lol

Replace iPhone with xbox, ps2 or wii and then you'll have a better understanding of what apple is doing. We've always bought those things ad don't expect to run whatever we want on them without the need of modding

The iPhone is much more like a closed down console than an open computer. Apple sells macs for those who want to add system extensions and customize things.

The iPod, iPhone and ipad are consoles. Those have always been locked down.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Replace iPhone with xbox, ps2 or wii and then you'll have a better understanding of what apple is doing. We've always bought those things ad don't expect to run whatever we want on them without the need of modding

The iPhone is much more like a closed down console than an open computer. Apple sells macs for those who want to add system extensions and customize things.

The iPod, iPhone and ipad are consoles. Those have always been locked down.

the differences is, with console every manufacturer has always bought into that philosophy.

with smartphones and mp3 players? there is no consensus of that sort. some smartphones are more open; others less. some mp3 players only play 2 formats...others play a wealth of formats.

no?

 

[SnakeXs]

the differences is, with console every manufacturer has always bought into that philosophy.

with smartphones and mp3 players? there is no consensus of that sort. some smartphones are more open; others less. some mp3 players only play 2 formats...others play a wealth of formats.

no?

No, there was a time when consoles weren't "locked down" as well. I'll leave it up to you to see how that ended.

 

[Chittagong]

on the contrary, Apple's OS caters to the masses. in fact, that's really the whole point. it's probably one of the easiest proprietary systems to use in the computing world.

I would say that Apple caters technology that would be absolutely perfect to the masses as price points that are way beyond masses. I mean, when the average selling price in Q4 for Nokia was around 60e, and SonyEricsson's was about 120e, HTC's was some $350 and Apple's was $600. Apple is not even close to catering to masses.

And that's fine as a strategy, being a premium brand. In fact, Apple is making an absolute killing catering a much smaller demographic. It becomes a problem only when the other companies choose to cater the market Apple chooses to not cater, with products Apple views as "less stylish", considering itself the original inventor of the product type. Apple wants to block these products, yet does not want to provide product itself to people less wealthy.

 

[LCfiner]

the differences is, with console every manufacturer has always bought into that philosophy.

with smartphones and mp3 players? there is no consensus of that sort. some smartphones are more open; others less. some mp3 players only play 2 formats...others play a wealth of formats.

no?

Sure, and consumers have the option to buy those phones.

Just like they can buy a pc instead of a ps3.

Also, the c64 was a lot more open than the nes. So that choice has been available to consumers in the past.

No problem there. I just think it's dumb when people get mad at apple for selling them a console when they expected a pc. Go out and buy a pc then. It's not like apple was misleading with what can be done with the device or how they intend for it to be used.

I also don't get the comments in this thread hoping that apple dies somehow after all this. Seems so childish. One of the reasons that win7, zunehd, win phone7 and android are as good as they are is from competition -- a lot of it stemming from apple.

It'd be dumb to wish corporate death on such a strong competitor. All our products are better due to all these companies being around.

 

[SnakeXs]

I would say that Apple caters technology that would be absolutely perfect to the masses as price points that are way beyond masses. I mean, when the average selling price in Q4 for Nokia was around 60e, and SonyEricsson's was about 120e, HTC's was some $350 and Apple's was $600. Apple is not even close to catering to masses.

And that's fine as a strategy, being a premium brand. In fact, Apple is making an absolute killing catering a much smaller demographic. It becomes a problem only when the other companies choose to cater the market Apple chooses to not cater, with products Apple views as "less stylish", considering itself the original inventor of the product type. Apple wants to block these products, yet does not want to provide product itself to people less wealthy.

What are they trying to "block" exactly? The HTC thing was over patents and will all likeliness end in unpaid royalties, not trying to create some phone monopoly.

 

[overthehill99]

We really need to wait until Chrome OS comes out. Then the battle really starts.

 

[Vyer]

We really need to wait until Chrome OS comes out. Then the battle really starts.

At which point MS goes all in. Would be interesting.

 

[LCfiner]

We really need to wait until Chrome OS comes out. Then the battle really starts.

Yeah, and some people here are upset at the iPhone being locked down.

now take that concept and force every app to be a web page. Bam, that's a scary concept for a lot of folks. It's pretty much the exact opposite of android.

Chrome os is locked down as tight as can be.

And that's perfectly fine if google can back up and execute properly on that idea.

I just can't help but wonder if android on a netbook isn't better for google. Oh well, we'll see.

 

[Technosteve]

I think apple needs to learn the lesson that closed systems never beat open systems in the long run.

They could have been Microsoft if they weren't so tyrannical in locking their software to their hardware. Their shortsighted attempts to protect their margins on their hardware are completely anti consumer.

Fuck em, I hope google kills them.

Yeah Linux is like on every computer these days.....

 

[wave dial]

Yeah, and some people here are upset at the iPhone being locked down.

now take that concept and force every app to be a web page. Bam, that's a scary concept for a lot of folks. It's pretty much the exact opposite of android.

Chrome os is locked down as tight as can be.

And that's perfectly fine if google can back up and execute properly on that idea.

I just can't help but wonder if android on a netbook isn't better for google. Oh well, we'll see.

Chrome OS is open source, unlike the iphone. That's a big difference in open-ness.

 

[Technosteve]

Chrome OS is open source, unlike the iphone. That's a big difference in open-ness.

chromium is Chrome is not.