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[MasLegio]

Did PA Kickstart this article?

they did not need to, it was paid for by a third party

 

[Kill Your Masters]

they did not need to, it was paid for by a third party

But they could double dip, that's good.

 

[Open Source]

It would give them a short term boost, to their long term detriment. When gamers can't trade it used games to fuel their next purchase, they'll see the harm.

Business executives can sometimes be extremely short sighted.

As long as publishers have full control over the pricing, they can and will drop prices as needed to stimulate demand just like GameStop can. The digital markets like Steam are proof that they are willing to do so. There is no need for "trade-in credit" to fuel new game purchases. In other words, used games do not increase net consumer $ spend on games, when publishers can discount prices at will to accomplish the same thing.

The only difference in the "long run" with used games is that billions of dollars go to gamestop instead of game creators.

It's the people here talking about how used games are essential who are short-sighted.

 

[MasLegio]

As long as publishers have full control over the pricing, they can and will drop prices as needed to stimulate demand just like GameStop can. The digital markets like Steam are proof that they are willing to do so. There is no need for "trade-in credit" to fuel new game purchases. In other words, used games do not increase net consumer $ spend on games, when publishers can discount prices at will to accomplish the same thing.

The only difference in the "long run" with used games is that billions of dollars go to gamestop instead of game creators.

It's the people here talking about how used games are essential who are short-sighted.

the digital markets on PSN and Xbox Live are proofs they are not willing to do so

 

[MMaRsu]

People aren't seriously thinking that games will get cheaper without used games right??? RIGHT?

 

[Open Source]

People aren't seriously thinking that games will get cheaper without used games right??? RIGHT?

Yes, seriously. Like I said, it's already happened on PC.

 

[BruiserBear]

Yes, seriously. Like I said, it's already happened on PC.

The key word there being PC. It's a different world from consoles. Publishers know that on PC piracy is a constant struggle. The same cannot always be said about consoles.

 

[Pyramid head]

Yes, seriously. Like I said, it's already happened on PC.

Valve doesn't own the PC platform; they have competition. Microsoft has no reason to lower prices.

And piracy.

 

[Dead Man]

Yes, seriously. Like I said, it's already happened on PC.

Open system versus closed. I'm not sure direct extrapolation is that useful.

 

[Shorty11857]

Valve doesn't own the PC platform; they have competition. Microsoft has no reason to lower prices.

And piracy.

Valve started doing sales before there was any real competition on the digital front

The only reason publishers allow sales on PC is because it makes them more money, it's entirely possible similar sales could happen on consoles if publishers think they can replicate the success

 

[Wolves Evolve]

As long as publishers have full control over the pricing, they can and will drop prices as needed to stimulate demand just like GameStop can. The digital markets like Steam are proof that they are willing to do so. There is no need for "trade-in credit" to fuel new game purchases. In other words, used games do not increase net consumer $ spend on games, when publishers can discount prices at will to accomplish the same thing.

The only difference in the "long run" with used games is that billions of dollars go to gamestop instead of game creators.

It's the people here talking about how used games are essential who are short-sighted.

We've heard it all before. All of this is accepted by most people. There's still no answers for:

- What about the right of people to sell the physical things they own? It's not a fucking bus ticket.

- If games retail relies on second hand games, what's the impact on the industry's retail presence if second hand goes under?

 

[catabarez]

Valve started doing sales before there was any real competition on the digital front

The only reason publishers allow sales on PC is because it makes them more money, it's entirely possible similar sales could happen on consoles if publishers think they can replicate the success

PC games have been cheaper than console games before Steam. I would love to see Steam-like sales, but it seems unlikely. I would love to be wrong though.

 

[Open Source]

- If games retail relies on second hand games, what's the impact on the industry's retail presence if second hand goes under?

It happened with movies and music already.

 

[Frodo]

But Gamestop would never accept that original trade if person 2 wasn't going to buy the used game. Why shouldn't Gamestop benefit? They are the middleman. You just want them to give people free money and throw the discs away?

No, here's the problem. Tomb Raider sold 3.4m units in the space of a month and it's a "failure" because it will fail to recoup its budget.

THREE POINT FOUR MILLION FUCKING UNITS FOR WHAT IS ESSENTIALLY A B-TIER FRANCHISE AND THAT'S STILL NOT ENOUGH TO MAKE ANY MONEY.

And killing used games would have solved this how? Would it have made the execs at Squenix who thought throwing $100m budget at a franchise that's been irrelevant since the turn of the century suddenly get a clue?

Oh, but no, they argue "GAMERS PUSH FOR HIGHER AND HIGHER BUDGETS AND WE HAVE TO GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT! THEIR ENTITLEMENT COMPLEX CAN'T BE SATIATED! WE HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO LET BUDGETS SPIRAL OUT OF CONTROL!" and that's lovely, but since when did they ever give a fuck about what we actually thought?

Are Microsoft going to turn around and backtrack on this DRM fiasco because "WE HAVE TO GIVE GAMERS WHAT THEY WANT!"? Are they fuck.

Are EA going to throw all their games up on Steam and patch Sim City to not need the stupid Origin authentication because "THAT'S WHAT THOSE ENTITLED GAMERS ARE SCREAMING FOR!"? Fuck no.

If you couldn't afford to give people what they wanted, then why didn't you just turn around and say no like you do with every other thing we complain about? Here's why; Every publisher big and small decided to get into a dick waving contest and it turns out that not everyone has a big dick. Squenix got its tiny little acorn cock out and went up against Mandingo Activision screaming "LOOK AT MY MASSIVE JUNK! YOU'LL WANT TO CARE FOR IT!" and everyone just turned around and shrugged and bought something else.

Not everyone has a big dick. Acting like you have a big dick when you don't have a big dick is going to make the reveal of your tiny little penis all the more humiliating. And that's what happened here. Squenix acted like Tomb Raider, a franchise that habitually sells less than 3m lifetime per entry was going to suddenly sell COD numbers just because they spent $100m on it and guess what happened? THE FUCKING INEVITABLE.

In terms of the franchise post-Core, the game is going to do really well, probably double what you'd expect from a Tomb Raider game post-PSone but it cost far, far too much.

But no, it's all used games that did this. Used games made Capcom make some horrible design decisions on DmC and piss off the entire fanbase. Used games made Activision and EA flood the market with guitar games and accessories long after people stopped caring. Used games made Microsoft make a fourth Gears of War game that nobody asked for from a developer nobody cares about. Used games made Sony pump out another God of War game after they spent the past few years flooding the market with HD remasters. Used games made Sony make a Smash Bros clone with no appealing characters to help sell it. Used games made Bizarre Creations make James Bond and racing games no-one wanted. Used games make publishers shutter studios the moment the game they were working on goes gold, before they've even had a chance to sell a single new copy, let alone a used one.

I could go on. And on. And on. You could write a book about every single executive level screw-up this gen and yet these same people with their million dollar salaries and their shill puppets still try to insult our intelligence and blame used games and awful, entitled consumers for companies shutting and talented people losing their jobs.

So please forgive our cynicism when we don't want to buy into the bullshit you're spouting.

Thank you. Thank you so much.

 

[BruiserBear]

But Gamestop would never accept that original trade if person 2 wasn't going to buy the used game. Why shouldn't Gamestop benefit? They are the middleman. You just want them to give people free money and throw the discs away?

No, here's the problem. Tomb Raider sold 3.4m units in the space of a month and it's a "failure" because it will fail to recoup its budget.

THREE POINT FOUR MILLION FUCKING UNITS FOR WHAT IS ESSENTIALLY A B-TIER FRANCHISE AND THAT'S STILL NOT ENOUGH TO MAKE ANY MONEY.

And killing used games would have solved this how? Would it have made the execs at Squenix who thought throwing $100m budget at a franchise that's been irrelevant since the turn of the century suddenly get a clue?

Oh, but no, they argue "GAMERS PUSH FOR HIGHER AND HIGHER BUDGETS AND WE HAVE TO GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT! THEIR ENTITLEMENT COMPLEX CAN'T BE SATIATED! WE HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO LET BUDGETS SPIRAL OUT OF CONTROL!" and that's lovely, but since when did they ever give a fuck about what we actually thought?

Are Microsoft going to turn around and backtrack on this DRM fiasco because "WE HAVE TO GIVE GAMERS WHAT THEY WANT!"? Are they fuck.

Are EA going to throw all their games up on Steam and patch Sim City to not need the stupid Origin authentication because "THAT'S WHAT THOSE ENTITLED GAMERS ARE SCREAMING FOR!"? Fuck no.

If you couldn't afford to give people what they wanted, then why didn't you just turn around and say no like you do with every other thing we complain about? Here's why; Every publisher big and small decided to get into a dick waving contest and it turns out that not everyone has a big dick. Squenix got its tiny little acorn cock out and went up against Mandingo Activision screaming "LOOK AT MY MASSIVE JUNK! YOU'LL WANT TO CARE FOR IT!" and everyone just turned around and shrugged and bought something else.

Not everyone has a big dick. Acting like you have a big dick when you don't have a big dick is going to make the reveal of your tiny little penis all the more humiliating. And that's what happened here. Squenix acted like Tomb Raider, a franchise that habitually sells less than 3m lifetime per entry was going to suddenly sell COD numbers just because they spent $100m on it and guess what happened? THE FUCKING INEVITABLE.

In terms of the franchise post-Core, the game is going to do really well, probably double what you'd expect from a Tomb Raider game post-PSone but it cost far, far too much.

But no, it's all used games that did this. Used games made Capcom make some horrible design decisions on DmC and piss off the entire fanbase. Used games made Activision and EA flood the market with guitar games and accessories long after people stopped caring. Used games made Microsoft make a fourth Gears of War game that nobody asked for from a developer nobody cares about. Used games made Sony pump out another God of War game after they spent the past few years flooding the market with HD remasters. Used games made Sony make a Smash Bros clone with no appealing characters to help sell it. Used games made Bizarre Creations make James Bond and racing games no-one wanted. Used games make publishers shutter studios the moment the game they were working on goes gold, before they've even had a chance to sell a single new copy, let alone a used one.

I could go on. And on. And on. You could write a book about every single executive level screw-up this gen and yet these same people with their million dollar salaries and their shill puppets still try to insult our intelligence and blame used games and awful, entitled consumers for companies shutting and talented people losing their jobs.

So please forgive our cynicism when we don't want to buy into the bullshit you're spouting.

One of the best posts I've ever seen on Gaf.

 

[Maxim726X]

Speaking of a bloated industry that no longer understands its consumer base...

What's up PA.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

Anyone who thinks killing off used games is a good thing, is a fucking moron. It's going to do so much damage to the industry.

 

[Wolves Evolve]

It happened with movies and music already.

Great, and this helps your point how?

 

[Dead Man]

It happened with movies and music already.

There's no second hand dvd or cd market? Or are you just speaking generically and unusefully about the reduction in music retailers?

 

[GHG]

But Gamestop would never accept that original trade if person 2 wasn't going to buy the used game. Why shouldn't Gamestop benefit? They are the middleman. You just want them to give people free money and throw the discs away?

No, here's the problem. Tomb Raider sold 3.4m units in the space of a month and it's a "failure" because it will fail to recoup its budget.

THREE POINT FOUR MILLION FUCKING UNITS FOR WHAT IS ESSENTIALLY A B-TIER FRANCHISE AND THAT'S STILL NOT ENOUGH TO MAKE ANY MONEY.

And killing used games would have solved this how? Would it have made the execs at Squenix who thought throwing $100m budget at a franchise that's been irrelevant since the turn of the century suddenly get a clue?

Oh, but no, they argue "GAMERS PUSH FOR HIGHER AND HIGHER BUDGETS AND WE HAVE TO GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT! THEIR ENTITLEMENT COMPLEX CAN'T BE SATIATED! WE HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO LET BUDGETS SPIRAL OUT OF CONTROL!" and that's lovely, but since when did they ever give a fuck about what we actually thought?

Are Microsoft going to turn around and backtrack on this DRM fiasco because "WE HAVE TO GIVE GAMERS WHAT THEY WANT!"? Are they fuck.

Are EA going to throw all their games up on Steam and patch Sim City to not need the stupid Origin authentication because "THAT'S WHAT THOSE ENTITLED GAMERS ARE SCREAMING FOR!"? Fuck no.

If you couldn't afford to give people what they wanted, then why didn't you just turn around and say no like you do with every other thing we complain about? Here's why; Every publisher big and small decided to get into a dick waving contest and it turns out that not everyone has a big dick. Squenix got its tiny little acorn cock out and went up against Mandingo Activision screaming "LOOK AT MY MASSIVE JUNK! YOU'LL WANT TO CARE FOR IT!" and everyone just turned around and shrugged and bought something else.

Not everyone has a big dick. Acting like you have a big dick when you don't have a big dick is going to make the reveal of your tiny little penis all the more humiliating. And that's what happened here. Squenix acted like Tomb Raider, a franchise that habitually sells less than 3m lifetime per entry was going to suddenly sell COD numbers just because they spent $100m on it and guess what happened? THE FUCKING INEVITABLE.

In terms of the franchise post-Core, the game is going to do really well, probably double what you'd expect from a Tomb Raider game post-PSone but it cost far, far too much.

But no, it's all used games that did this. Used games made Capcom make some horrible design decisions on DmC and piss off the entire fanbase. Used games made Activision and EA flood the market with guitar games and accessories long after people stopped caring. Used games made Microsoft make a fourth Gears of War game that nobody asked for from a developer nobody cares about. Used games made Sony pump out another God of War game after they spent the past few years flooding the market with HD remasters. Used games made Sony make a Smash Bros clone with no appealing characters to help sell it. Used games made Bizarre Creations make James Bond and racing games no-one wanted. Used games make publishers shutter studios the moment the game they were working on goes gold, before they've even had a chance to sell a single new copy, let alone a used one.

I could go on. And on. And on. You could write a book about every single executive level screw-up this gen and yet these same people with their million dollar salaries and their shill puppets still try to insult our intelligence and blame used games and awful, entitled consumers for companies shutting and talented people losing their jobs.

So please forgive our cynicism when we don't want to buy into the bullshit you're spouting.

Best post ive ever read on here. Take a bow sir.

Mods need to embed this post into GAF's TOS. This needs to be stickied to the top of every section on here. Its that perfect.

Well done.

 

[linkboy]

Yes, seriously. Like I said, it's already happened on PC.

What you're forgetting is that a PC is an open platform. Steam is in direct competition with other stores like Origin, GOG, Desura (more Indy based), and UPlay just to name a few.

That's the key difference between LIVE, Nintendo Network and PSN. With those services, you can't do the following

A) Use them without purchasing their respective console (as opposed to the PC markets, which work with your computer, a device that vast majority of people own)

B) Use the games you purchase on more than one machine (again, as opposed to the PC markets).

With the PC, while Steam is the top of the market right now, there's always the chance that someone could come in and knock them off. That's the biggest reason why Steam has those sales, to keep the competition at bay (people who think their doing it for our benefit are naive as hell).

With the console stores, you don't have those options. You're pretty much at the mercy of MS, Nintendo and Sony for pretty much everything.

Someone made the comment earlier about how LIVE is in competition with PSN and they were wrong, they're not in competition, at all. Each console's store operates in it's own little bubble due to the cost of entry. If you want to go from PSN to LIVE, the cost of entry is the price of a 360 (or One). If I want to go from Origin to Steam, all I have to do is download a client from a website.

There's no second hand dvd or cd market? Or are you just speaking generically and unusefully about the reduction in music retailers?

I don't get what he's talking about, there's a market for second hand DVDs and CDs. Hell, I have a Hastings in my town that is open pretty much because of that fact (in addition to games and books). I hardly buy my blu-ray and DVDs new, my first option is either Hastings or my local Pawn Shops (Blu-Rays for $8 there).

 

[jdmonmou]

People aren't seriously thinking that games will get cheaper without used games right??? RIGHT?

Yeah, you have to be pretty naive to think that the price of games will decrease if used games are killed off. Let's not forget there are such things as inflation and the rising costs of game development.

Eventually their plan is probably to kill off retail sales of games altogether mid-life cycle and make you just download games from xbox live. Taking a cut from used game sales is just phase 1 of their plan. Then you will have no place else to buy games except for on xbox live. At least on PC you have options (Steam, Origin, Green Man Gaming, Good Old Games, etc.). For people with an Xbox One, if you can only buy your games from one store front, there will be no incentive for them to offer competitive prices.

Taking away options from the consumer is never a good thing.

 

[linkboy]

I have a question to ask the people who think game prices will go down when the market is 100% digital.

A 100% digital market won't have to deal with things like instruction books (even though they're pretty much gone now), pressing discs and cases.

Now onto the question,

Have you ever seen a company after driving down the cost to manufacture their product, pass those savings onto their consumers?

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

My Marine buddy was in Iraq for a couple years. They played ancient, shitty PS2 and Gamecube games because that's all they had. He once told me that if he ever sees the Jedi Starfighter game case again, he will get PTSD. He was kidding (I think).

People who live in truly shitty areas of the world also may not have a high degree of personal safety, or they might not have the greatest cars, etc. etc.. I would think Internet and high end gaming systems would be the least of their concerns.



Empathy has nothing to do with it. I come from the real world, where toys cost money. I have a huge degree of empathy for people who don't know where their next meal is coming from, whose children have cancer, a home situation where both parents are unemployed and their kids aren't getting medical care, or any number of awful circumstances.

I do not have a large degree of empathy for entitled shits who think that because they exist, they deserve very expensive toys for minimal amounts of money. So yes. I do lack a lot of empathy for certain types of people.

I'm so glad people like you don't completely run our country yet. Some people work really hard every day for minimum wage just to scrape by. Maybe, they want to enjoy a few wonders of technology before they die. Maybe when the price of the console and a game they want is cheaper because it is used they can afford it. You nor anyone else in this country, usa, should be able to tell me what to spend my money own. And instead of having this idea that a minimum wage earner shouldn't be allowed something like a game console, because he should spend his money on other things, maybe our country should raise minimum wage. By your logic, since I'm not rich, I can never go to college, I should never have kids, I should never take a vacation, I should never need no nothing but what the good lord provide me. I should be glad my part time job that pays me $150 a week allows me to scrape by while my masters make their fortunes.

But it's cool cause us poor folk are thankful our masters care enough to not only pay us in chump change but are also kind enough to tell us how to spend our hard earned money.
Looking out for us they are.

 

[Open Source]

I'm so glad people like you don't completely run our country yet. Some people work really hard every day for minimum wage just to scrape by. Maybe, they want to enjoy a few wonders of technology before they die. Maybe when the price of the console and a game they want is cheaper because it is used they can afford it. You nor anyone else in this country, usa, should be able to tell me what to spend my money own. And instead of having this idea that a minimum wage earner shouldn't be allowed something like a game console, because he should spend his money on other things, maybe our country should raise minimum wage. By your logic, since I'm not rich, I can never go to college, I should never have kids, I should never take a vacation, I should never need no nothing but what the good lord provide me. I should be glad my part time job that pays me $150 a week allows me to scrape by while my masters make their fortunes.

But it's cool cause us poor folk are thankful our masters care enough to not only pay us in chump change but are also kind enough to tell us how to spend our hard earned money.
Looking out for us they are.

So not having $5-10 discounts on $50-60 games on a $500 system is what's going to prevent poor people from "enjoying the wonder of technology before they die"?

Give me a fucking break.

 

[Open Source]

What you're forgetting is that a PC is an open platform. Steam is in direct competition with other stores like Origin, GOG, Desura (more Indy based), and UPlay just to name a few.

That's the key difference between LIVE, Nintendo Network and PSN. With those services, you can't do the following

A) Use them without purchasing their respective console (as opposed to the PC markets, which work with your computer, a device that vast majority of people own)

B) Use the games you purchase on more than one machine (again, as opposed to the PC markets).

With the PC, while Steam is the top of the market right now, there's always the chance that someone could come in and knock them off. That's the biggest reason why Steam has those sales, to keep the competition at bay (people who think their doing it for our benefit are naive as hell).

With the console stores, you don't have those options. You're pretty much at the mercy of MS, Nintendo and Sony for pretty much everything.

Someone made the comment earlier about how LIVE is in competition with PSN and they were wrong, they're not in competition, at all. Each console's store operates in it's own little bubble due to the cost of entry. If you want to go from PSN to LIVE, the cost of entry is the price of a 360 (or One). If I want to go from Origin to Steam, all I have to do is download a client from a website.



I don't get what he's talking about, there's a market for second hand DVDs and CDs. Hell, I have a Hastings in my town that is open pretty much because of that fact (in addition to games and books). I hardly buy my blu-ray and DVDs new, my first option is either Hastings or my local Pawn Shops (Blu-Rays for $8 there).

Xbox is in competition with Playstation, PC, and even movie, music, and TV biz for entertainment dollars. It doesn't exist in a vacuum, closed system or not.

 

[nib95]

But Gamestop would never accept that original trade if person 2 wasn't going to buy the used game. Why shouldn't Gamestop benefit? They are the middleman. You just want them to give people free money and throw the discs away?

No, here's the problem. Tomb Raider sold 3.4m units in the space of a month and it's a "failure" because it will fail to recoup its budget.

THREE POINT FOUR MILLION FUCKING UNITS FOR WHAT IS ESSENTIALLY A B-TIER FRANCHISE AND THAT'S STILL NOT ENOUGH TO MAKE ANY MONEY.

And killing used games would have solved this how? Would it have made the execs at Squenix who thought throwing $100m budget at a franchise that's been irrelevant since the turn of the century suddenly get a clue?

Oh, but no, they argue "GAMERS PUSH FOR HIGHER AND HIGHER BUDGETS AND WE HAVE TO GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT! THEIR ENTITLEMENT COMPLEX CAN'T BE SATIATED! WE HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO LET BUDGETS SPIRAL OUT OF CONTROL!" and that's lovely, but since when did they ever give a fuck about what we actually thought?

Are Microsoft going to turn around and backtrack on this DRM fiasco because "WE HAVE TO GIVE GAMERS WHAT THEY WANT!"? Are they fuck.

Are EA going to throw all their games up on Steam and patch Sim City to not need the stupid Origin authentication because "THAT'S WHAT THOSE ENTITLED GAMERS ARE SCREAMING FOR!"? Fuck no.

If you couldn't afford to give people what they wanted, then why didn't you just turn around and say no like you do with every other thing we complain about? Here's why; Every publisher big and small decided to get into a dick waving contest and it turns out that not everyone has a big dick. Squenix got its tiny little acorn cock out and went up against Mandingo Activision screaming "LOOK AT MY MASSIVE JUNK! YOU'LL WANT TO CARE FOR IT!" and everyone just turned around and shrugged and bought something else.

Not everyone has a big dick. Acting like you have a big dick when you don't have a big dick is going to make the reveal of your tiny little penis all the more humiliating. And that's what happened here. Squenix acted like Tomb Raider, a franchise that habitually sells less than 3m lifetime per entry was going to suddenly sell COD numbers just because they spent $100m on it and guess what happened? THE FUCKING INEVITABLE.

In terms of the franchise post-Core, the game is going to do really well, probably double what you'd expect from a Tomb Raider game post-PSone but it cost far, far too much.

But no, it's all used games that did this. Used games made Capcom make some horrible design decisions on DmC and piss off the entire fanbase. Used games made Activision and EA flood the market with guitar games and accessories long after people stopped caring. Used games made Microsoft make a fourth Gears of War game that nobody asked for from a developer nobody cares about. Used games made Sony pump out another God of War game after they spent the past few years flooding the market with HD remasters. Used games made Sony make a Smash Bros clone with no appealing characters to help sell it. Used games made Bizarre Creations make James Bond and racing games no-one wanted. Used games make publishers shutter studios the moment the game they were working on goes gold, before they've even had a chance to sell a single new copy, let alone a used one.

I could go on. And on. And on. You could write a book about every single executive level screw-up this gen and yet these same people with their million dollar salaries and their shill puppets still try to insult our intelligence and blame used games and awful, entitled consumers for companies shutting and talented people losing their jobs.

So please forgive our cynicism when we don't want to buy into the bullshit you're spouting.

 

[Rolf NB]

It happened with movies and music already.

Selling your Blu-rays, DVDs and CDs is not worth the time and hassle because the media are cheap brand new. If you factor out shipping, platform cut (Amazon MP/EBay etc), you can maybe, possibly recoup 4~5€ on a used sale of a Blu-ray that you bought for 15€. If you do it really quickly, before the new price drops. Maybe. So you effectively paid, let's say 10€ plus the time for dealing with the buyer and the unscheduled trip to the post office. Plus the risk that the buyer goes into return mode or otherwise falls through. Instead of 15. It's not worth doing.

Selling your games OTOH, you start from a much higher new price, and your "gross margin" if you will, on that transaction, is much, much higher as well.

 

[-PXG-]

This one of those times where you don't have to read the opening sentence and know that the entire piece is riddled with bullshit.

Sycophants, ass kissers and apologists need to fuck off and keep their mouths shur

 

[-PXG-]

But Gamestop would never accept that original trade if person 2 wasn't going to buy the used game. Why shouldn't Gamestop benefit? They are the middleman. You just want them to give people free money and throw the discs away?

No, here's the problem. Tomb Raider sold 3.4m units in the space of a month and it's a "failure" because it will fail to recoup its budget.

THREE POINT FOUR MILLION FUCKING UNITS FOR WHAT IS ESSENTIALLY A B-TIER FRANCHISE AND THAT'S STILL NOT ENOUGH TO MAKE ANY MONEY.

And killing used games would have solved this how? Would it have made the execs at Squenix who thought throwing $100m budget at a franchise that's been irrelevant since the turn of the century suddenly get a clue?

Oh, but no, they argue "GAMERS PUSH FOR HIGHER AND HIGHER BUDGETS AND WE HAVE TO GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT! THEIR ENTITLEMENT COMPLEX CAN'T BE SATIATED! WE HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO LET BUDGETS SPIRAL OUT OF CONTROL!" and that's lovely, but since when did they ever give a fuck about what we actually thought?

Are Microsoft going to turn around and backtrack on this DRM fiasco because "WE HAVE TO GIVE GAMERS WHAT THEY WANT!"? Are they fuck.

Are EA going to throw all their games up on Steam and patch Sim City to not need the stupid Origin authentication because "THAT'S WHAT THOSE ENTITLED GAMERS ARE SCREAMING FOR!"? Fuck no.

If you couldn't afford to give people what they wanted, then why didn't you just turn around and say no like you do with every other thing we complain about? Here's why; Every publisher big and small decided to get into a dick waving contest and it turns out that not everyone has a big dick. Squenix got its tiny little acorn cock out and went up against Mandingo Activision screaming "LOOK AT MY MASSIVE JUNK! YOU'LL WANT TO CARE FOR IT!" and everyone just turned around and shrugged and bought something else.

Not everyone has a big dick. Acting like you have a big dick when you don't have a big dick is going to make the reveal of your tiny little penis all the more humiliating. And that's what happened here. Squenix acted like Tomb Raider, a franchise that habitually sells less than 3m lifetime per entry was going to suddenly sell COD numbers just because they spent $100m on it and guess what happened? THE FUCKING INEVITABLE.

In terms of the franchise post-Core, the game is going to do really well, probably double what you'd expect from a Tomb Raider game post-PSone but it cost far, far too much.

But no, it's all used games that did this. Used games made Capcom make some horrible design decisions on DmC and piss off the entire fanbase. Used games made Activision and EA flood the market with guitar games and accessories long after people stopped caring. Used games made Microsoft make a fourth Gears of War game that nobody asked for from a developer nobody cares about. Used games made Sony pump out another God of War game after they spent the past few years flooding the market with HD remasters. Used games made Sony make a Smash Bros clone with no appealing characters to help sell it. Used games made Bizarre Creations make James Bond and racing games no-one wanted. Used games make publishers shutter studios the moment the game they were working on goes gold, before they've even had a chance to sell a single new copy, let alone a used one.

I could go on. And on. And on. You could write a book about every single executive level screw-up this gen and yet these same people with their million dollar salaries and their shill puppets still try to insult our intelligence and blame used games and awful, entitled consumers for companies shutting and talented people losing their jobs.

So please forgive our cynicism when we don't want to buy into the bullshit you're spouting.

Quoting this because goddamn....spot fucking on.

Give this man GAF Gold. He's earned it

 

[Wolves Evolve]

So not having $5-10 discounts on $50-60 games on a $500 system is what's going to prevent poor people from "enjoying the wonder of technology before they die"?

Give me a fucking break.

It's the trading that matters, not the discount. The discount is shit because the trading works in concert. People of low socio-economic condition trade games at a much higher ratio than the rich. They do it to afford a new game like CoD.

I guess we'll see. Let the chips fall where they may. I think publishers are making a big bet on the permanency of their markets.

 

[Dead Man]

Xbox is in competition with Playstation, PC, and even movie, music, and TV biz for entertainment dollars. It doesn't exist in a vacuum, closed system or not.

You've utterly missed the point about the barrier to enaging the competitopn. You can't just change to a different console for free, there is a significant cost to doing that. Chaging DD clients on PC is free, deciding to watch a tv show or go to a movie involves no or very limited cost.

Once you buy a console, unless you have the money to buy another one, that's what you are going to be stuck with.

 

[Castef]

"as profit margins rise it's possible we'll see prices drop"

 

[RetroStu]

Gmaes have pretty much stayed the same price since the Snes/Genesis days, anyone who thinks games will go down for ANY reason is seriously deluded, in fact we have been damn lucky that prices have stayed the same over the last 20 years.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

People aren't seriously thinking that games will get cheaper without used games right??? RIGHT?

Some people actually do believe that. Everything will be cheaper according to some posters.
It's like they haven't heard any rumors.

The reason there's all this confusion is because Microsoft hasn't decided what the activation fee will be yet. The 40.84€ () figure reported in the story below sounds too high - perhaps it includes the shop's sale price as well.
My source confirmed that part of that activation fee will go to a publisher and part to Microsoft.

Sure sounds like cheap used games to me. Who knows, maybe with this move, developers will stop closing doors! And that money will somehow trickle down to new games too.

 

[Sushen]

But it should not be for the publisher. They already make their money from the new copies.

If publishers think that used games are so profitable, why didn't they set up their own used game stores?

Precisely. Nobody stops MS or any other publishers from competing in used game market like the used car market. What MS is trying to do is like red light camera (sit there doing nothing and collect money with hypothetical moral reason), except only governments can get away with this lazy way of making money.
It's going to be a costly social experiment for MS. What other industry let the companies double dip after first sale?

 

[Open Source]

You've utterly missed the point about the barrier to enaging the competitopn. You can't just change to a different console for free, there is a significant cost to doing that. Chaging DD clients on PC is free, deciding to watch a tv show or go to a movie involves no or very limited cost.

Once you buy a console, unless you have the money to buy another one, that's what you are going to be stuck with.

Not really. You can sell a console and not take a huge hit on it - especially compared to the hit you take on trading in used games at GameStop.

 

[Open Source]

Quoting this because goddamn....spot fucking on.

Give this man GAF Gold. He's earned it

Yawn. It's a couple of cherry-picked examples. What about all the examples of mid tier games that didn't have huge budgets failing?

There's been no viable alternative presented, and no acknowledgement of the fact that the AAA model does work a lot of the time.

The situation RIGHT NOW is that we have used games, dead mid-tier, and the *only* stuff surviving is AAA and digital. And people look at that and conclude that the surviving stuff is the problem. Asinine. And that used games could not possibly be the problem. Just as asinine. AAA model is the EFFECT, not the cause.

 

[Delusibeta]

Yes, seriously. Like I said, it's already happened on PC.

It happened with movies and music already.

Have you ever heard of The Pirate Bay?

Yawn. It's a couple of cherry-picked examples. What about all the examples of mid tier games that didn't have huge budgets failing?

There's been no viable alternative presented, and no acknowledgement of the fact that the AAA model does work a lot of the time.

The situation RIGHT NOW is that we have used games, dead mid-tier, and the *only* stuff surviving is AAA and digital. And people look at that and conclude that the surviving stuff is the problem. Asinine. And that used games could not possibly be the problem. Just as asinine. AAA model is the EFFECT, not the cause.

You're right that AAA model is the effect, but you're wrong on the cause: idiotic publishers spunking money trying to chase the Call of Duty market is the problem. Used games wouldn't be a problem for not-shit games, since they wouldn't be traded-in in the first place.

 

[FunnyBunny]

I need clarification on Burai's point.

I thought Tomb Raider, on its own, was a success. If it sold 3.4m copies at $60, it made more than $200m - more than enough to make up for its budget. I thought it was considered a "failure" because Square/Enix needed Tomb Raider to offset losses incurred by other games that sold poorly?

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

Not really. You can sell a console and not take a huge hit on it - especially compared to the hit you take on trading in used games at GameStop.

Not a huge hit, what are you, crazy? Most of the time you barely get half the cost of the console back. And even if you somehow think that's okay, that's still a larger cost than zero, which is what it is on PC. AND, on PC, when you swap competitors, you get to keep access to your games.

It's not the same thing. At all. They are not equivalent.

Yawn. It's a couple of cherry-picked examples. What about all the examples of mid tier games that didn't have huge budgets failing?

There's been no viable alternative presented, and no acknowledgement of the fact that the AAA model does work a lot of the time.

The situation RIGHT NOW is that we have used games, dead mid-tier, and the *only* stuff surviving is AAA and digital. And people look at that and conclude that the surviving stuff is the problem. Asinine. And that used games could not possibly be the problem. Just as asinine. AAA model is the EFFECT, not the cause.

What examples? We had a working model last generation.

AAA doesn't mean the budget has to be so fucking enormous that the game still fails after it sells well over the brand's expectations. That's the main problem. It's not even a "mid-tier" thing, it's a "high-tier has to be so insanely high-tier that we probably won't make a profit."

 

[Meia]

It's all the developers going after the Call of Duty money.

"Hey, if they sold 10 million units, we should be able to as well! Let's add things that that audience likes!" And hey, the result is entire franchises ruined because they started off in one area that was wholly their own, then they try branching off by adding things no one asked for from the original game. I'd almost call it the rule of 3s this gen, where by the third game the developer has lost their damn mind and forgotten what made the first two so great in the first place(Dead Space, Assassin's Creed, Uncharted to a certain degree).


Stop watering down your own product to try to appeal to people that flat out don't exist, and you'll do fine. That publications are trying to blame this on a scapegoat like used games is disingenuous, and really no different than people blaming violent video games on gun crime.

 

[ManUtdRedDevils]

Wait so corporations will cut prices when it's profit margin rises?!? Holy shit, clearly someone never took business classes in college.

 

[Open Source]

Not a huge hit, what are you, crazy? Most of the time you barely get half the cost of the console back. And even if you somehow think that's okay, that's still a larger cost than zero, which is what it is on PC. AND, on PC, when you swap competitors, you get to keep access to your games.

It's not the same thing. At all. They are not equivalent.



What examples? We had a working model last generation.

AAA doesn't mean the budget has to be so fucking enormous that the game still fails after it sells well over the brand's expectations. That's the main problem. It's not even a "mid-tier" thing, it's a "high-tier has to be so insanely high-tier that we probably won't make a profit."

- You can easily sell a console on ebay for within 80% of its value on ebay and the like. This was true even of less popular ones like the Vita and the Wii U for quite some time after launch.

- And I never said they are equivalent. But they are analogous, and the same downward price pressures would occur.

- Used games were far less ubiquitous last generation, and customers were less demanding

- Some companies screw it up, yes. I won't argue with that. But that's not a general rule. The big AAA games are the ones with the highest returns on the dollar.

 

[Dead Man]

Not really. You can sell a console and not take a huge hit on it - especially compared to the hit you take on trading in used games at GameStop.

hardcastlemccormick already replied for me. Your argument so far is not very convincing.

Even if you sell it for 80% of the value, you still take a pretty massive loss, especially if you factor re buying the games you already bought, for which you will now recieve almost no trade in value.

It is a much more significant financial burden than just changing a PC gaming client.

 

[Open Source]

You're right that AAA model is the effect, but you're wrong on the cause: idiotic publishers spunking money trying to chase the Call of Duty market is the problem. Used games wouldn't be a problem for not-shit games, since they wouldn't be traded-in in the first place.

Incorrect. People trade in games that they are finished playing, no matter how good they are. Want to know why multiplayer is tacked onto single player games? Part of the AAA push is making games that people can continue to play and thus won't want to trade in.

 

[NervousXtian]

This is like saying people who can't read shouldn't be concerned about free speech.

Gaming is not some kind of inherent right.

 

[Open Source]

hardcastlemccormick already replied for me. Your argument so far is not very convincing.

Even if you sell it for 80% of the value, you still take a pretty massive loss, especially if you factor re buying the games you already bought, for which you will now recieve almost no trade in value.

It is a much more significant financial burden than just changing a PC gaming client.

I don't think the friction is that much less, actually. You see on this board lots of people unwilling to buy games outside of Steam because they want all their games in one place.

 

[Meia]

Incorrect. People trade in games that they are finished playing, no matter how good they are. Want to know why multiplayer is tacked onto single player games? Part of the AAA push is making games that people can continue to play and thus won't want to trade in.

This I kind of doubt. Not that's not a reason, just not the sole one. Way more likely that they try tacking on game modes cause Bob from accounting is telling them that adding multiplayer to your game increases sales by 23%! Or that adding multiplayer means adding easy DLC, which further increases profits.



It's kind of a leap to say that multiplayer keeps people from trading in games, when if you made a game that people actually want to play more than once before throwing it away would better serve that purpose.


I keep a lot of games. I also trade some games in. The ones that go are not ones I can see ever playing again. Other massive problem is people thinking it's a great idea to have a mass game release schedule at like 2 points in the year, where prices really REALLY hurt.

 

[Dead Man]

I don't think the friction is that much less, actually. You see on this board lots of people unwilling to buy games outside of Steam because they want all their games in one place.

Now you are saying nobody will change client because they want their games all in the same place, and that is as big a deterrent as a financial hit that would be several hundred dollars at a minimum? You need to find your argument and develop it, not throw shit at a wall and see what sticks.

Good luck with your future endeavours.