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PES 2015 : 1080P 60 FPS on PS4 - 720P 60 FPS on X1

BibiMaghoo

Member
It's sad that the real specs of the Xbox One was so much of a let down for hardcore Xbox fans that someone like Misterxmedia (who just make up lies after lies about hidden Xbox One powers) was able to create a cult following. SMH

I seem to recall the same thing happening with PS3, just not nailed down so well to a specific person. MrXMedia is the evolution of TimDog, who is now last gen. Still, there has always been a subset of desperation in a very small amount of people. I see it more often with the hardcore Nintendo fans of late, but it's not that unusual. This case is only special because the all out lies are incredible in nature, because they are in most cases, completely, 100% impossible.
 

StuBurns

Banned
People in the industry don't really consider APIs/SDKs to be "tools". Tools usually refer to development tools (visual studio, debuggers, example projects, code examples). A dev codes against a SDK and/or API. This may be an solution provided by Sony/Ms or not. These usually aren't referred to as tools. Another degree of separation which is most used is a game engine. This is saves a lot of time, money and complications, but is by nature less optimized. In the case of pes they used an engine to create their game. This of course limits your ability to optimize to the metal.
What? Every game 'uses an engine'.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Well, how would you feel if any time you made a statement, someone went back through just your GAF history to show that you had a history of lying as a way to discredit you? I think you and I both know that would not be hard argument to make, given your history at GAF. Does that sound like a reasonable thing for me to do to prove that you're wrong about the percentage of power available for a console? Because, to me, it seems like it would be a pretty shitty thing to do over a dumb console war argument.

If you'd like to discuss it further, feel free to PM me.

Oops, didn't see your comment to go to PM
 

Teletraan1

Banned
No, I'm not going to provide you quotes and links, but I've definitely seen/heard a few developers say things suggesting the XB1 tools have gotten much better over the course of this year. Maybe even to the point where they're easier to work with than the PS4.

That's what Kampfheld comments suggested.

And no, none of this offends me. Unlike half of the people in this thread I bought both consoles the day they came out, and I've bought every third party game so far on my PS4. It's lovely having my objectivity questioned by people who only own one console though, but thisisneogaf.gif.

Owning both consoles doesn't mean shit. Big fucking deal you have $500 to waste on a plastic box. The words you spew into this site endlessly lets anyone who can read question your objectivity.

For the record I am not trying to make myself the bastion of objectivity. I have my own bias'. Anyone can read my post history and see that. I am also not fronting about how I am not biased. That would be the difference here.
 

mrb1972

Banned
You've stated your opinion without proof. People have refuted what you said with quotes.

You have given no evidence to back up your "theory/opinion", you have been asked multiple times to give evidence but you get offended.

This is a discussion forum, you're entitled to your opinion but if you don't back things you state as fact then you'll rightly be contested.

I just don't believe MS are that naive to build a crap console, I think they released it with a rubbish SDK which the Metro dev basically admitted, Sony didn't , this is why some launch title were rubbish in comparison, I don't think they had to tools ready to fully utilize the hardware yet.

Just my theory from what I have read from dev's since launch - I think the next wave of first party title will be much better (FH2 looks like a good example).

Im not anti PS4 , in fact if DC turns out as good as it looks (still yet to be convinced on gameplay) I will probably pick up a PS4 too (I had both last gen consoles too)
 

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Well, how would you feel if any time you made a statement, someone went back through just your GAF history to show that you had a history of lying as a way to discredit you? I think you and I both know that would not be hard argument to make, given your history at GAF. Does that sound like a reasonable thing for me to do to prove that you're wrong about the percentage of power available for a console? Because, to me, it seems like it would be a pretty shitty thing to do over a dumb console war argument.

If you'd like to discuss it further, feel free to PM me.

Well I think we should. If he feels it's okay to shit on people by digging up shite and making unsubstantiated accusations just to win a internet argument then folks should feel free to do the same to him.

It's horrible behaviour.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Well I think we should. If he feels it's okay to shit on people by digging up shite and making unsubstantiated accusations just to win a internet argument then folks should feel free to do the same to him.

It's horrible behaviour.

Please, what did I say that was "unsubstantiated"? What did I say that was not relevant? Hm? That's right, nothing.

And people DO dig shit up about me every day. I face at least one such comment per day from people who can't leave the past well enough alone. I don't complain about them making those comments because I have to live with my mistakes I've made from the past and prove to people I've changed enough to stop bringing up past mistakes.

Anyway, besada said go to PM, so I am.
 

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Please, what did I say that was "unsubstantiated"? What did I say that was not relevant? Hm? That's right, nothing.

If you feel happy with your behaviour then there is nothing further to discuss.
 
No, I'm not going to provide you quotes and links, but I've definitely seen/heard a few developers say things suggesting the XB1 tools have gotten much better over the course of this year. Maybe even to the point where they're easier to work with than the PS4.

That's what Kampfheld comments suggested.

And no, none of this offends me. Unlike half of the people in this thread I bought both consoles the day they came out, and I've bought every third party game so far on my PS4. It's lovely having my objectivity questioned by people who only own one console though, but thisisneogaf.gif.

Then your post is complete bullshit and is negligent to the current discussion.
 

Ramrock

Banned
I just don't believe MS are that naive to build a crap console, I think they released it with a rubbish SDK which the Metro dev basically admitted, Sony didn't , this is why some launch title were rubbish in comparison, I don't think they had to tools ready to fully utilize the hardware yet.
We already told you about the specs.
There is nothing to ~believe~ here. We're talking about tech, about facts.
Not about unicorns.
 
Can we go back to the PES topic ?

I was wondering if final build screenshots were available for PES 2015 so we could just make a proper comparison on the issue at hand ?
I mean i've seen and read my impression on PES 2015 but those were from the demo , right ?
Except from the website listing, do we have other sources ?

and by that i mean the technical aspect of it
 
Then you just built the engine for the specific game. It's still running on an engine.

Name a game that doesn't run on an engine.


Perhaps you did not understand my post. When I stated use an engine, these means use an existing engine (fox engine, frostbite, unreal, etc) This opposed to starting from the SDK/API level and developing the game from scratch. This again taking more time, costing more, but allows you to optimize to the hardware much more, rather than his to the engine.

TLDR: A existing game engine is used more than starting from scratch
 

NickFire

Member
I just don't believe MS are that naive to build a crap console, I think they released it with a rubbish SDK which the Metro dev basically admitted, Sony didn't , this is why some launch title were rubbish in comparison, I don't think they had to tools ready to fully utilize the hardware yet.

Just my theory from what I have read from dev's since launch - I think the next wave of first party title will be much better (FH2 looks like a good example).

Im not anti PS4 , in fact if DC turns out as good as it looks (still yet to be convinced on gameplay) I will probably pick up a PS4 too (I had both last gen consoles too)

The were not naïve. IMO, they looked at the success of Wii, Steam, and Facebook (targeted ads based off mass amounts of data collected), and devised the idea to target the masses (Wii - less power overcome by interface = more money), with an always online OS (no more used games unless they get a slice of the pie, plus more retail profits sales to them via digital), and with more targeted ads after they analyze and harness the data Kinect could have provided beyond the user subscriber sign up info (Facebook).

Sony, on the other hand, said lets focus on gamers first, and figure out how we can capitalize a little down the road. And hence, we have the first years sales results that are discussed daily now.
 

StuBurns

Banned
The topic wasn't PES, it was the technical gulf between the SKUs of PES, which is directly related to the architecture of the consoles, and their SDKs.
 

Vestal

Gold Member
Then you just built the engine for the specific game. It's still running on an engine.

Name a game that doesn't run on an engine.


An engine is usually referred to as a compilation of various frameworks used as the core aspect of your game to interface with a system be it PC or console etc.

It's just a term really, I could write a graphics, sound, and input wrapper and release a game. I wouldn't call it am engine though. Engine references something a bit more robust and reusable.
 

mrb1972

Banned
We already told you about the specs.
There is nothing to ~believe~ here. We're talking about tech, about facts.
Not about unicorns.

Right ok - lets drop this now, going round and round in circles - i gave my opinion and you can all tell me I told you if AC etc are much better on the PS4
 

Amir0x

Banned
The were not naïve. IMO, they looked at the success of Wii, Steam, and Facebook (targeted ads based off mass amounts of data collected), and devised the idea to target the masses (Wii - less power overcome by interface = more money), with an always online OS (no more used games unless they get a slice of the pie, plus more retail profits sales to them via digital), and with more targeted ads after they analyze and harness the data Kinect could have provided beyond the user subscriber sign up info (Facebook).

Sony, on the other hand, said lets focus on gamers first, and figure out how we can capitalize a little down the road. And hence, we have the first years sales results that are discussed daily now.

Yeah, I think the "problem" is Microsoft had a very specific vision for the Xbox One, and they designed it to meet those goals - the goals of being a very OS-focused multitasking beast with TV integration - and they made a system that is designed to meet those goals most effectively, compared to Sony's goal which was very narrowly focused on delivering the best performance for games.
 

Jack cw

Member
Can we go back to the PES topic ?

I was wondering if final build screenshots were available for PES 2015 so we could just make a proper comparison on the issue at hand ?
I mean i've seen and read my impression on PES 2015 but those were from the demo , right ?
Except from the website listing, do we have other sources ?

and by that i mean the technical aspect of it

There is a topic for the demo. This one is for the performance difference of the both current gen versions, so besides that comedy guy, this thread was pretty much within the topic.

And the final build of the game is around 3 or 4 weeks away and the community manager posted a screen of improved player models a couple of days ago (or was it today), so the retail version isn't out yet. Right now, the game runs at 1080p60fps on PS4 and 720p60fps on Xbone.
 

Cess007

Member
There is a topic for the demo. This one is for the performance difference of the both current gen versions, so besides that comedy guy, this thread was pretty much within the topic.

And the final build of the game is around 3 or 4 weeks away and the community manager posted a screen of improved player models a couple of days ago (or was it today), so the retail version isn't out yet. Right now, the game runs at 1080p60fps on PS4 and 720p60fps on Xbone.

Seeing how this has gotten widely know now, i'm pretty sure MS will go to Konami to help them boost the resolution. This is not good to MS if they resolutions remains as they're now.

Edit: And maybe they're already working with Konami?: http://www.gamepur.com/news/16399-k...-pes-2015-xbox-one-720p-resolution-after.html
 
And I totally understand you. At least right now. People are tired of this, I am not dumb. All I can say is: wait.

I think there needs to be less talk of cloud and more of what is actually being delivered as it merely a nebulous and meaningless term for hosted platforms and services. Games that ping facebook APIs can easily call themselves cloud based. It's pretty mundane as a concept now.
 

BibiMaghoo

Member
Then you just built the engine for the specific game. It's still running on an engine.

I don't agree with that perspective. Games existed before engines as we define them today. A game hard coded with no middleware or reusable functions enclosed, does not use an engine. The game is itself, not built around a framework.
 

StuBurns

Banned
An engine is usually referred to as a compilation of various frameworks used as the core aspect of your game to interface with a system be it PC or console etc.

It's just a term really, I could write a graphics, sound, and input wrapper and release a game. I wouldn't call it am engine though. Engine references something a bit more robust and reusable.
A game runs a simulation, it has running logic, and it runs on an engine. You might choose not to call it an engine because for some reason you put unwarranted weight on the term, but that's still what it's called.

The point was ultimately that this idea that a priority engine is better for 'coding to the metal' seems redundant, because practically no one uses technology once at this point. You could say 'look at UC4, coded to the metal' or whatever, but the truth is that the engine was at the least started with Uncharted 1, practically a decade ago. It might stay in-house, but it's still not ground up, and thrown away after.

With tools running into the millions of lines of code, no one is building from scratch for a single AAA project, so while there might be some theoretical benefit, there are no real instances of it happening.

Moreover, if we look at the results of engines, is bespoke always preferable? Gears was the visual stand out for 360 for the majority of last-gen, and that was Unreal, the most ubiquitous engine of the generation.
 

BibiMaghoo

Member
A game runs a simulation, it has running logic, and it runs on an engine. You might choose not to call it an engine because for some reason you put unwarranted weight on the term, but that's still what it's called.

I think you are the one putting unwarranted weight on the term. An engine is a framework. A shell. You do not need this to create a game. The first two statements above are correct, but how does that mesh with the third?

Please can you give me your definition of an engine? Not trolling here, but I don't understand your view, and you're not backing it up, you are just saying it is what you say it is.
 

On Demand

Banned
When I first opened the link I was surprised to see what looks like a professional Adam Bhatti tweet...

Then I scrolled down. :(

I'm amazed at the downplaying about resolution this generation all of a sudden. It's really crazy. But i guess in his case he has a game to sell.
 

Sayad

Member
I'm amazed at the downplaying about resolution this generation all of a sudden. It's really crazy. But i guess in his case he has a game to sell.
Regardless of what he says about the res(that's his job, after all), his tone is the problem. Check his twitter feed, it's full of insults and confrontational exchanges with PES fans. Lots of twitter conversations with him end up with the other guy getting blocked. It's the exact opposite of what's a community manager is supposed to do.
 

Biker19

Banned
All this lazy dev talk is funny. In a perfect world this might happen but in reality you have budgets, deadlines, console sales, talent and team sizes, management decisions and of course hardware bottlenecks where optimization or work arounds cost a lot of money. PS3 had to suffer from this too, where 360 was simply easier to work with. This time the differences are more noticeable because there is a wider power gap between the two systems and the stronger one is the default lead console.

This. A lot of 3rd party developers don't have time to get one version of a certain game up to par with the superior version, especially not within smaller publishers/developers.

And why is everyone still arguing with mrb1972? I would've just ignored him.
 

StuBurns

Banned
I think you are the one putting unwarranted weight on the term. An engine is a framework. A shell. You do not need this to create a game. The first two statements above are correct, but how does that mesh with the third?

Please can you give me your definition of an engine? Not trolling here, but I don't understand your view, and you're not backing it up, you are just saying it is what you say it is.
I didn't 'back it up' because the person I was talking to changed his point when replying to me.

Wikipedia puts it nicely, "A game engine is the software, i.e. some algorithms, solely responsible for the game mechanics and is strictly speaking not the rendering engine.", although Google too, "the basic software of a computer game or video game.".

Can't get it much more simple than that really.

There were games created without engines, as in the logic runs on the fixed printed board, but not anymore.



However, none of that is at all relevant to the discussion I was having with whoever it was.
 

BibiMaghoo

Member
I didn't 'back it up' because the person I was talking to changed his point when replying to me.

Wikipedia puts it nicely, "A game engine is the software, i.e. some algorithms, solely responsible for the game mechanics and is strictly speaking not the rendering engine.", although Google too, "the basic software of a computer game or video game.".

Can't get it much more simple than that really.

There were games created without engines, as in the logic runs on the fixed printed board, but not anymore.

However, none of that is at all relevant to the discussion I was having with whoever it was.

Yeah, you skipped the more meaningful part of the articles start.

A game engine is a software framework designed for the creation and development of video games.

Note the 'for' and the 'framework', note how the article speaks of an engine being used as a development tool, and not an essential part of development. If an engine was inherent to all games that wouldn't make much sense.

If you sat down at a keyboard and wrote a game using nothing but language, in a single script, there would be no engine.

Because otherwise, that makes any script that does anything at all, an 'engine', which is obviously false.
 

StuBurns

Banned
Yeah, you skipped the more meaningful part of the articles start.



Note the 'for' and the 'framework', note how the article speaks of an engine being used as a development tool, and not an essential part of development. If an engine was inherent to all games that wouldn't make much sense.

If you sat down at a keyboard and wrote a game using nothing but language, in a single script, there would be no engine.

Because otherwise, that makes any script that does anything at all, an 'engine', which is obviously false.
Because a game can be made without an engine. Read on.

Before game engines, games were typically written as singular entities: a game for the Atari 2600, for example, had to be designed from the bottom up to make optimal use of the display hardware—this core display routine is today called the kernel by retro developers.

That's why the article presents the delta between the game engine and a game, but it doesn't apply to any significant game made today. There is no 'coded to the metal' PS4 masterpiece that's not using an engine.
 

EGM1966

Member
Chaps this is PES thread on declared resolution not general IT terminology thread.

I'm finding it interesting but there's been a warning on going off topic already so suggest you consider slowing your rate of direct reply before we have an entire page without mention of PES.
 

EGM1966

Member
What that even means?
They're going to chat with MS about getting additional support - maybe for a post release patch?

Seems late in day for change but who knows.

I'd love to see an already optimised PS4 title get extra additional love just to see how much difference it makes.
 

Sou

Member
What that even means?

Seriously, if your company has put out official materials on the official website of the game saying specifically stating that different platform are running at different resolutions, what is there to stay tuned to?
 

StuBurns

Banned
They're going to chat with MS about getting additional support - maybe for a post release patch?

Seems late in day for change but who knows.

I'd love to see an already optimised PS4 title get extra additional love just to see how much difference it makes.
The follow up says MS is going to help with 'communication', not development.
 
If you feel happy with your behaviour then there is nothing further to discuss.

Kid, don't act like a mod and abuse the situation to take a last parting shot for free. Be a man and stfu.

I'm looking forward to the battle this year end between PS4 and XBONE. Sales spikes are always front loaded so I'm sure the XBONE baseline in the UK will still fall below PS4 next week. Microsoft have a lot more to do before they can achieve a higher baseline.
 

EGM1966

Member
The follow up says MS is going to help with 'communication', not development.
True - that sounds more like marketing input. Not sure what form that could take: do they think MS can advise them on sugaring the pill?

Of course communication could still lead to "we'll send over the engineers" although from what I understand of Fox Engine this sounds a tougher challenge that helping out with Destiny or Diabalo.

Cynically maybe they're just going to consider some communication to try and offer some expectation for improvement: something in line with Respawn communication on possibly increasing TitanFall resolution?
 
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