If reviewers aren't even going to try to be objective about something, why even bother with a score? Personally, I think scores are the real issue. The score is the click-bait, in my opinion.
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Phil Spencer: Some reviewers give games low scores to get more clicks
- Thread starter Raylan
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HeisenbergWW62
Banned
Agreed
Reviewers pointing out actual problems with the game is nothing more than clickbait
Reviewers pointing out actual problems with the game is nothing more than clickbait
scores are stupid but objectivity is impossible and not something anyone actually wants
Because Reviews by nature are subjective.
That could be an argument but the review is completely different.
Shiieeeeetttttttt LOL
BRocknRolla
Member
As I said to the other poster who responded as such, it doesn't really matter what their reason was for not liking it; it was their personal opinion about the game. If we make it such that we decide whether a review is "fair" every time one disagrees with a widely held opinion, we're in for a lot of trouble. You're throwing subjectivity on top of subjectivity in a misguided attempt to find some kind of objective standard opinion. As I said to the other poster:
Reviewers cannot be objective. Attempting to do so introduces so many levels of interpretation, that it's insane to think it's even possible. "I don't like this game, but the graphics look nice, and I can see how that would matter a lot to other people. I don't really like the shooting because it snaps to your targets, taking gameplay out of the scenario, but I guess others are used to that, and it seems pretty popular, I think. So while I don't like the game, objectively, it's probably good. 8/10." It just doesn't work.
There is also nothing wrong with a score. The only real problems with scores are either: 1.) People ignore the actual text which adds appropriate context to the score, making the score useless when it was otherwise just a summation of a level of appreciation, or 2.) The reviewer doesn't provide appropriate context for their feelings, leaving the score as a strange outlier that seems to conflict with their text. That isn't a fundamental issue with scores though, but rather, with consumption and creation of reviews.
Tomorrow's headline: Some journalists manipulate quotes for clicks.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Exhibit A
FinaruDensetsu
Member
Not just interact.
Timdogg and Crapgamer and others like them get free passes for events, free products and take photos with Phil, Greenberg and Major Nelson all. the. time.
Psst. Look at the entire conversation. They are friends who talk regularly. Sorry to be a party pooper and ruin your excitement.
It's like clockwork. And often despite someone posting the context of the actual quote, people will still go in on just the headline for multiple pages. Absolutely Amazing haha.
Wow. So Phil Spencer senpei really isn't any better than platform warring fanboys.
Deplorable. Xbox fanboys have to be the worst.
Deplorable. Xbox fanboys have to be the worst.
That's my point. Since nobody can avoid it, scores should just not exist. Who is it helping at the end of the day, anyway? I've always thought they were more harmful than helpful.
Mexen
Member
LOL come on, even the part where he said that it is up to devs to go 4K when asked if that should be a standard did nothing for you?
Dyson Industries
Banned
ReCore wasn't a good game.
LordBaztion
Member
A major publisher like MSS shouldn't be releasing games with technical issues, you have the pockets to delay what is necesary. Technical issues are easy to spot and basically the only objective thing a reviewer can get.
Great now give Recore and Quantum Break sequels
Crayon
Member
"Community". Treating timdogg and crap gamer fosters community.
hydrophilic attack
Member
arguing about which gaming company has the worst fanboys seems like one of the least interesting gaming discussions you could have
its Idea Factory
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Nice fanboy on GAF conspiracy theory level argument there Phil
I laughed...but am not sure I was suppose to.
Yeah, because Playstation fans never shitpost when they get a chance, oh wait... They are doing exactly just that in this thread!
Can you point out those posters so the moderators can take care of them?
I mean if they do the same stuff that Crapgamer and Tim Dog are doing then this is clear violation of the Terms of Service, as they are vile racists.
jordan0386
Member
If games do bad people may lose jobs.
Getting excited about games not doing well is very short sighted.
Fanboyism is annoying.
Getting excited about games not doing well is very short sighted.
Fanboyism is annoying.
He wasn't talking about Recore, he is talking about the critically acclaimed Forza Horizon 3.
79 Positive reviews on Metacritic
and a single review that gave it 40
http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-one/forza-horizon-3/critic-reviews
Phil Spencer said:
Hockeymac18
Member
Quoting you again because no one is getting the context - it wasn't about Recore, the statement was about giving FH3 a 4 out of 10...
I agree questioning review scores isn't a good look, but you do have to wonder how someone plays a game like FH3 and gives it a 4. I don't think the "clickbait" argument is that far off from being possible.
Then again, the head of a gaming division probably shouldn't be saying this stuff publicly, even if there's some argument there to be made.
I made a thread about the entire interview here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1290173
The interview itself is a really good read, encourage all to read it if you're interested in Xbox.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
I mean at this point doing the quote mining in the other direction is equally as shitty as what you guys accuse the OP of doing.
Just let's leave out the preceding part where Phil clearly talked about ReCore deserving 7-8-9.
And him saying this:
" I'm not saying Xbox is completely clean here, but as much as I have any influence on it at all, that's not something I will support or entertain. Sorry, that's just something I needed to get out"
when he continuous to interact with Tim Dog and Crapgamer which he has been informed about how they behave is mega empty words.
--
And that's coming from someone that thinks he is absolutely right about clickbait reviews.
Just let's leave out the preceding part where Phil clearly talked about ReCore deserving 7-8-9.
And him saying this:
" I'm not saying Xbox is completely clean here, but as much as I have any influence on it at all, that's not something I will support or entertain. Sorry, that's just something I needed to get out"
when he continuous to interact with Tim Dog and Crapgamer which he has been informed about how they behave is mega empty words.
--
And that's coming from someone that thinks he is absolutely right about clickbait reviews.
Night Angel
Member
And yet he brought it up when discussing reviews for Recore. Hmm, I wonder if he was trying to make a connection there.
Conkerkid11
Member
The game would have been received better if it had been a better game.
Electret
Member
It's called a tu quoque fallacy, and it's eminently legitimate. Calling out a logical fallacy is pretty germane to logical discussion, so I find it highly misguided and amusing that someone would characterize that as a petty method of deflection.
FinaruDensetsu
Member
I don't think so.
The question posed was specifically about Recore. He just went on a brief tangent about FH3 as another example of a game that got a 4. Literally 95% of his long answer is all about Recore. Before that one brief mention of FH3 being given a 4, he was talking about how:
1) Recore got reviews that were too harsh
2) Scores in the 7, 8, 9 range he feels are fair for Recore; and
3) Scores of 3 and 4 for Recore are again too harsh
Just as you said there is only a single review that gave FH3 a 40, but yet Phil Spencer's own words state "certain reviews". I think he's clearly talking about both, with a focus on Recore, or on an even broader level basically any game that gets a 3 or 4. He raised FH3 as another example of a game that got scores he feels may have been due to "clickbait".
Hockeymac18
Member
Eh, maybe. I just think he was making a general statement about reviews, in general, not necesarilly about Recore itself.
He probably shouldn't have made this comment, I agree. Even though he was directly asked about critical reception, he probably should have left it alone.
And I don't think what he's saying is really that far-fetched (I personally do think there are reviewers that sometimes go after more controversial scores, possibly to get clicks). But being in the position he's in, he shouldn't be making these kind of statements. He obviously cars about the project, and was venting a bit (when he shouldn't have).
Here's the full quote if you want proper context (from here):
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
For once I agree with him. This practice needs to stop. Reviewers do review too high in general, so a general lowering of scores would be nice not out-of-the-blue shocker low scores to get clicks.
Vegetable Lasagna
Member
It's okay around here when Sony does it.
RichiRamjag
Member
Yep. Timdog is a straight dbag. he was calling a gaffer piece of shit on twitter earlier.
I mean...I don't get this. Was there a gamespot article about that tweet as well or was it a three year old tweet most of us never saw?
It's not, where did you get that bs from?
Night Angel
Member
I've read the full quote. It still reads like he thinks reviews were low for clicks. There's no other reason he'd bring up the Forza review as a response to a question about the poor reviews for Recore.
It's already been discussed, look up the full conversation - he was joking.
JetSetRadio
Banned
Bring back Mattrick please. He would be able to handle a product selling like shit.
FinaruDensetsu
Member
Yeah exactly, nowhere was he prompted for an answer about FH3.
Remember the question he was responding to was:
How do you feel about the response to ReCore from critics, given it was highlighted as one of the major Xbox One exclusives?
Phil is NOT Donald Trump at the Presidential Debate. I think he can focus on the question being asked.
Vegetable Lasagna
Member
BS? Every time MS does something we get a shit show of a thread here about it to dump on them. Sony does the same thing and we get a thread about how hilarious it was.
Best example is MS's recent online marketing pointing out Xbox has UHD and HDR and the PlayStation 4 Pro doesn't. MS is clearly juvenile and using scummy marketing tactics was the shtick... But when Sony did it during E3 with the used games lie everyone thought it was just hilarious and good marketing, BS? Nah, fact.
What lie?
FinaruDensetsu
Member
So you don't really have an answer to his question, but are instead bringing up a bunch of other SonyToo not related to this thread.
RichiRamjag
Member
You're full of crap man. There were threads shitting on Sony for lack of mods, UHD, the pro not being great, etc. Only people ignoring those are those with an agenda imo.
tiredheadcrab
Member
I think he was referring to FH3. It was an interesting interview. Just click bait I think.
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