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[ZeroMaverick]

Check out the book that covers the study. Man (Dis)Connected. I don't agree with many of his conclusions or rationales, and I don't even totally like the study he used, but the ideas that he presents about young men growing up in the modern era are worth at least discussing.

Okay. I will, and if I can get to it this summer, I'll PM you my thoughts. I just got a different idea because the article in the OP didn't mention what you were saying. At first, it seemed a little reductive, but I'll check out the book and see what he's really saying.

 

[Insertia]

Considering how difficult it is for nerds to find a woman to wed I see no problem with porn. If you don't want me there are thousands of women online revealing themselves. Your choice.

The bigger issue in my opinion is the amount of fornication going on. It appears that we're (nerds) are being saved from the women who are least attracted to our way of life.

Dorks and nerds are simply communicating to God in the best way they can. God is communicating back.

 

[Khrno]

when young males see this picture and there first thought is 'eww what a hairy arm'
then i think we have a problem, i guess it's not anime enough.
see this gaf thread for proof...
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1037359

Weird, I didn't think anything about the hair since my arms are probably as hairy or a little bit more.

What I saw was the playstation watch, didn't think anything about anything else on that picture until after reading the post.

 

[Yarbskoo]

What do you think Zimbardo's ideal of a masculine man is? Did you read the article at all? He's not claiming that the problem is that they're not chopping wood and being "manly-men," but that they're rejecting emotional intimacy, contact and deep human relationships.

I guess I must not be getting out of it what I should be, because the only problems I see described here are:

1. Addicted men would rather play WoW than be in class.
2. Addicted men like porn because porn will always accept them even if women won't.
3. Addicted men can't get it up to porn.


On a semi-related note, if 2 hours of porn a week is excessive, then I'm not having nearly as many erection problems as I should be.

 

[plasmawave]

According to the picture it's only on Xbox.

We'll be ok with PlayStation and Nintendo.

Beta male tested for the future.

 

[Diffense]

Maybe to your brain, and if you didn't bother reading the article. Because no, he's not. He's addressing the issue of men buying into the toxic modern meaning of "masculinity" (the "manly-man" view of being a man) and what he perceives as a emotional and social deficit in young men. We talk about "masculinity" in psychology because the "crisis of masculinity" is produced by the modern definition of masculinity itself. It inculcates an unhealthy view of maleness in young men.

I'm not a psychologist but I've thought about this too. Most mass shooters are male. There is no difference in access to guns. What about the female social support structure, emotional makeup, and what's expected of her by society makes her less likely to perpetrate such acts? Probably the unspoken limitations on how a man can express emotion morphs male sadness into anger.

 

[SerTapTap]

I don't really understand what anything in the article has to do with "masculinity", just reads as standard "kids be playin games and not doin what I done when I did grown up, it's scurry, ain't natural *spits*" bullshit.

Oh wait it's Zimbardo, he's been fucking this chicken for years.

 

[Insertia]

He also called for better sex education in schools - which should focus not only on biology and safety, but also on emotions, physical contact and romantic relationships.

Play Metal Gear Solid if you want to experience dynamic relationships. Videogames have been very instrumental in teaching me about the opposite sex. I want a woman that will appreciate me, not through me to the dogs.

Men have options now and thats a good thing.

 

[tengiants]

the trend now is that most young people are holed up in their rooms because of videogames as it's much easier to socialize with people on the comfort of their couch.

With that being said, this topic hits home hard for me. My younger brother (who just turned 18) has always been social recluse because of video games and my parents just allowed it just so he didn't do the same dumb shit I did growing up (underage drinking, partying, etc). The consequence now is that he's completely awkward with everyone except for people online that he's never met in person. My mom is now afraid to send him off to the real world because she doesn't think he can take care of himself because he doesn't know how to do the most basic things such as cooking, paying bills and being responsible. He talks about going into the "real world" and owning a house and my dad says he doesn't know how to swing a hammer, work a saw, and anything that has to do with being a homeowner.

With that being said, it doesn;t make my brother any less masculine than the next person, but being holed up playing video games all day has stunted his personality and social skills so much that we believe that he's going to have the hardest time adjusting to the "real world" and taking care of himself and possibly others.

I don't believe your brother is a social recluse because of videogames. I believe he is a social recluse because he has low self esteem. Videogames just offer a challenge that he is able to overcome right now, and just the baby steps for him to take on bigger challenges like social interaction in the future. Remind him that he's good at something that isn't videogame related sometime.

 

[Irresistable Thing]

women will rule and everything will be better

I hope this isn't serious.

 

[Kama_1082]

I don't believe your brother is a social recluse because of videogames. I believe he is a social recluse because he has low self esteem. Videogames just offer a challenge that he is able to overcome right now, and just the baby steps for him to take on bigger challenges like social interaction in the future. Remind him that he's good at something that isn't videogame related sometime.

he was a great trumpet player in his high school marching band and since he graduated, he doesn't have that anymore. But he's been a recluse even before he started high school.

And to add; he's already going on 19, an adult. There's gonna be a time when my mom is going to make him pack up his shit to do something for himself. There's only so long you can hang off mommy's breast.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Okay. I will, and if I can get to it this summer, I'll PM you my thoughts. I just got a different idea because the article in the OP didn't mention what you were saying. At first, it seemed a little reductive, but I'll check out the book and see what he's really saying.

Awesome, I look forward to discussing the book with you over PM!

I'm not a psychologist but I've thought about this too. Most mass shooters are male. There is no difference in access to guns. What about the female social support structure, emotional makeup, and what's expected of her by society makes her less likely to perpetrate such acts? Probably the unspoken limitations on how a man can express emotion morphs male sadness into anger.

The support structure thing is a HUGE part of it in my mind. Also a willingness to seek help. Women, as far as I know, seem to show a far higher willingness to seek help from friends/family and even licensed mental health and medical professionals. There is a very toxic idea in our culture that spreads the notion that you're not a "man" if you need to talk to a friend about your "feelings" or if you need to talk to a psychologist.

1. Addicted men would rather play WoW than be in class.
2. Addicted men like porn because porn will always accept them even if women won't.
3. Addicted men can't get it up to porn.

That's actually a really legitimate critique of Zimbardo, which could be that there isn't a crisis and it's just an addiction problem.

 

[Insertia]

When I think about it videogames have offered relationships and bonds that I would have never experienced in the real world. The relationship with Snake and Otacon is to be dreamed for. A soldier and a scientist working together to bring peace. How innovative is that?

I dream of that kind of relationship in real life. Someone who has my back and I theirs on their journey of life.

Videogames offer roles and show imagery that we can only dream of experiencing in our young age. Videogames turned me into a man.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

I dream of that kind of relationship in real life. Someone who has my back and I theirs on their journey of life.

The problem is, theoretically, that people are only dreaming about it and not actually taking the motions necessary to find those relationships.

 

[ShyGuy0504]

So what I gather from this is that preferring one's own company over others is bad?

If I like to sit in my room and play video games and watch porn it shouldn't matter to anyone but me.

It's my life. I'm not bothering anyone and I'm happy.

Obviously if every single man on the planet suddenly started doing this then it would be a problem but that's not happening.

 

[Kama_1082]

When I think about it videogames have offered relationships and bonds that I would have never experienced in the real world. The relationship with Snake and Otacon is to be dreamed for. A soldier and a scientist working together to bring peace. How innovative is that?

I dream of that kind of relationship in real life. Someone who has my back and I theirs on their journey of life.

Videogames offer roles and show imagery that we can only dream of experiencing in our young age. Videogames turned me into a man.

that's marriage.

 

[bigdaddygamebot]

"Someone have a problem with my lifestyle so it must be women's fault!"

It's equally preposterous as the "masculinity crisis".

 

[Kama_1082]

So what I gather from this is that preferring one's own company over others is bad?

If I like to sit in my room and play video games and watch porn it shouldn't matter to anyone but me.

It's my life. I'm not bothering anyone and I'm happy.

Obviously if every single man on the planet suddenly started doing this then it would be a problem but that's not happening.

does playing video games and watch porn affect your life outside your room? Are you awkward at school/work, can you hold a job, relationship, etc? That's what this study is about

 

[TheRedSnifit]

In which we discover that GAFers don't like anything that criticizes their hobby.

Seriously, guys, you should try reading the article.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

In which we discover that GAFers don't like anything that criticizes their hobby.

Seriously, guys, you should try reading the article.

Discussing this on Gaming side and with the thread title it has was always going to be an uphill slog.

 

[geomon]

Hmm, sounds familiar....

 

[Mob_zter]

Porn & gaming is the only thing that keeps me going in my alone life.

 

[Insertia]

All I know about marriage is being miserable and having to put up with a womans shit. Being poor and working a job that doesn't pay well and in turn dealing with employees that don't give a shit about me.

Dear psychologist: I rather play videogames and struggle and focus on my education before ever settling for less.

 

[Mael]

So....is typical masculinity something to defend or to deny?
Make up your mind, gamers!

All I know about marriage is being miserable and having to put up with a womans shit. Being poor and working a job that doesn't pay well and in turn dealing with employees that don't give a shit about me.

Dear psychologist: I rather play videogames and struggle and focus on my education before ever settling for less.

This is marriage to some people?
Thank you for making me feel so lucky!

 

[Cidd]

women will rule and everything will be better

Lol if they're anything like my wife or daughter (Both which I love very much) then no way in hell.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

There is a massive reddit community called /NoFap that is about the virtues of removing porn from their lives and the benefits. They claim a lot of improvements and some of them have gone for years without masturbation. Some only cut porn but still masturbate.


There is also a sizeable /pick-up artist crowd that thinks they have a better chance at attracting the opposite sex if they build up their testeterone levels by not masturbating. I think it feeds off a belief used by atheletes who are not supposed tor masturbate/have sex, when they are about to perform.



There is still a lot of data we don't have on these things, and so it is difficult to conclude anything yet, but it is clear that with video games and porn being at the very heart of western civilization mass culture, that we need to put extra resources into getting some more answers on the effect on the psyche.

And yes, VR is scary. The article from Verge about VR-Porn and how a part of her brain was tricked into thinking it was real sounded both horrible and awesome. She talked about it like that she knew collectively it was not real, but it another part of her brain stimulates the responses and makes it feel real, increasing the effect.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

All I know about marriage is being miserable and having to put up with a womans shit. Being poor and working a job that doesn't pay well and in turn dealing with employees that don't give a shit about me.

Dear psychologist: I rather play videogames and struggle and focus on my education before ever settling for less.

This is exactly what Zimbardo is talking about. "A woman's shit"? Yeah that's not what marriage and lifelong relationships are.

 

[bomblord1]

There is a massive reddit community called /NoFap that is about the virtues of removing porn from their lives and the benefits. They claim a lot of improvements and some of them have gone for years without masturbation. Some only cut porn but still masturbate.


There is also a sizeable /pick-up artist crowd that thinks they have a better chance at attracting the opposite sex if they build up their testeterone levels by not masturbating. I think it feeds off a belief used by atheletes who are not supposed tor masturbate/have sex, when they are about to perform.



There is still a lot of data we don't have on these things, and so it is difficult to conclude anything yet, but it is clear that with video games and porn being at the very heart of western civilization mass culture, that we need to put extra resources into getting some more answers on the effect on the psyche.

And yes, VR is scary. The article from Verge about VR-Porn and how a part of her brain was tricked into thinking it was real sounded both horrible and awesome. She talked about it like that she knew collectively it was not real, but it another part of her brain stimulates the responses and makes it feel real, increasing the effect.

You might be interested in this. It's a fairly large thing at this point.
http://www.fightthenewdrug.org/

 

[Azuran]

In which we discover that GAFers don't like anything that criticizes their hobby.

Seriously, guys, you should try reading the article.

lmao at the thought of people reading what's on the OP. Most people just read the thread title, drive by post, and are never to be seen again.

 

[The Elite]

I jerk off and play video games all the time.

I think I do quite well.

 

[tengiants]

In which we discover that GAFers don't like anything that criticizes their hobby.

Seriously, guys, you should try reading the article.

I did. My problem is the headline and throwing the term 'masculinity' around without a definition of what it means to be masculine in their eyes. I can only assume they mean the classic meaning of 'masculine' which I don't really care for and I don't think is relevant in today's times.

I agree with limiting the amount of time you play videogames, watching porn, watching tv, doing drugs, drinking coffee, studying, playing chess, lifting weights, riding your bike, or any other single activity though (unless you're paid professionally and legitimately for any of them, then go for it).

 

[orthodoxy1095]

You might be interested in this. It's a fairly large thing at this point.
http://www.fightthenewdrug.org/

I'm personally a huge fan of Fight The New Drug because of how I've seen porn affect lives within my own circle of friends and family. That said, I want to see some more good, strong research done.

I can only assume they mean the classic meaning of 'masculine' which I don't really care for and I don't think is relevant in today's times.

Assumptions are dangerous.

 

[Sai-kun]

Play Metal Gear Solid if you want to experience dynamic relationships. Videogames have been very instrumental in teaching me about the opposite sex. I want a woman that will appreciate me, not through me to the dogs.

Men have options now and thats a good thing.

this really needs to be inspected

 

[ShyGuy0504]

does playing video games and watch porn affect your life outside your room? Are you awkward at school/work, can you hold a job, relationship, etc? That's what this study is about

I'm a little shy and awkward around other people but this has never caused me any problems.

I have no problem keeping a job.

I've never been in a relationship and don't think I ever will be as I simply don't have any desire to be in one. But if the desire struck one day I'm fairly certain I could handle it.

 

[pvpness]

this really needs to be inspected

Lol. Reading that cats posts makes me think they're either hilarious or terrifying.

 

[Ominym]

Wow a lot of science deniers in here. The study was about men who play video games and jerk off to porn in EXCESS

Knee jerk reactions will always happen on here, however the thread title isn't helping. You would think most would read the OP, but apparently not.

 

[tengiants]

I'm personally a huge fan of Fight The New Drug because of how I've seen porn affect lives within my own circle of friends and family. That said, I want to see some more good, strong research done.

Assumptions are dangerous.

I agree, which is why I don't like the article. They can't provide all the information or proof of the claims as they don't even present what they are measuring masculinity against.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Lol. Reading that cats posts makes me think they're either hilarious or terrifying.

Given the "having to put up with a womans shit" line, I'm betting they're more of a sad, somewhat humorous caricature.

I agree, which is why I don't like the article. They can't provide all the information or proof of the claims as they don't even present what they are measuring masculinity against.

Now that, unlike many of the drivebys posts, is a fair critique. I personally think Zimbardo is probably right about the negative effects of both and the possible relationship problems (or social isolation) they're creating in young boys. But you're right that the information, evidence and measurements are certainly lacking.

 

[KyanMehwulfe]

Gender? Sex? Identity? Much of it is just construction and programming at this point anyhow. Do what makes you happy and frag the rest.

Only a matter of time until we have this...

equating that.

Null sweat, chums. Time to deck in.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Knee jerk reactions will always happen on here, however the thread title isn't helping. You would think most would read the OP, but apparently not.

Years of internet forums should have taught us to think otherwise

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

Ahh, I just finished the BBC interview with Zimbado. Very nice. His definition of "excess videogaming/pornography" is when you would rather want to play games than anything else, and if you are with your friends you would rather be home alone and play games. He said that he saw pornography as an excess if you would rather be home and watch porn, even when you are having sex with a real girl.
Interesting.

I don't think many gaffers play that much(15 hours a day of World of Warcraft). But I do think many gaffers spend many, many hours on the internet every day.

You might be interested in this. It's a fairly large thing at this point.
http://www.fightthenewdrug.org/

Thanks will check it out.

 

[Gatzor]

Pretty much. If they are playing video games then they aren't bothering anyone, whats the problem?

hmm, that isnt a very good way to look at things. I don't cut myself and think, "well, I don't mind, it helps me cope with stress, and I'm not hurting anyone else" and come to the conclusion that there is no underlying problem (I use this example because I have heard this argument before)....

Implications and context man. If you don't think there is a problem with dudes jackin off every day from the age of 12 then get with a woman. Article doesn't say video games and porn are a cancer to society, it says that addiction to them is, and honestly both of those things are very easy to get addicted to for many people.

Also lets be real, I feel bad for any women that have to deal with a guy that actually use pornography as a model for what to do

 

[Insertia]

I've contemplated marriage many times. Videogames are the only things that have been a positive current in my life. And women fucking hate them. One chick destroyed my PS3 another broke my copy of GT4. But gaming has been getting progressively more positive.

If you have a woman in your life that has your back and doesn't call you ugly/gay/loser/faggot/wimp/ you have a good one. Have fun in heaven with her!

Unfortunetly I live in one of those states were the suicide rate is higher than nationaly average. Fortunetly I have videogames.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

An article from Psychology Today, however, argues that there are no demonstrable scientific links between porn consumption and erectile dysfunction.

Woah, an article that does some research on the subject, woah.

 

[tengiants]

Given the "having to put up with a womans shit" line, I'm betting they're more of a sad, somewhat humorous caricature.

Now that, unlike many of the drivebys posts, is a fair critique. I personally think Zimbardo is probably right about the negative effects of both and the possible relationship problems (or social isolation) they're creating in young boys. But you're right that the information, evidence and measurements are certainly lacking.

Thanks. I know a lot of female gamers and some are socially awkward, probably because they spend a lot of time alone. The social awkwardness isn't at all a masculine or feminine trait from what I've observed personally.

 

[Nzyme32]

WATCH THIS INTERVIEW SO YOU DON'T KNEE JERK - http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02qv3ng

 

[theusedversion]

I just copied the article title to use as the thread title. If a mod wants to change it, be my guest. But it is a good way to easily spot the ones who don't read the article.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

WATCH THIS INTERVIEW SO YOU DON'T KNEE JERK - http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02qv3ng

It's an interesting listen. I hope more listen to it.

 

[Kama_1082]

I'm a little shy and awkward around other people but this has never caused me any problems.

I have no problem keeping a job.

I've never been in a relationship and don't think I ever will be as I simply don't have any desire to be in one. But if the desire struck one day I'm fairly certain I could handle it.

see this isn't a problem for you. But for many others, including my brother, it's a bit worrying.

 

[afternoon delight]

While the video game / porn link seems a bit tenuous, right on to them for looking into the effects of porn on the male sex drive, I think the topic is weirdly fascinating. (Is it me secretly sizing up the competition in an area I'm devoted to? Dunno Freud.)

Two hours a week of highly stylized porn... Damn. That's just incredible to me as a person, but I have no trouble believing it. Only in the past five or six years have I really heard women describe encounters with 20 something men who could not perform unless porn was present... I think it's an easy and understandable link to say that kind of consumption desensitizes the brain to 'unenhanced' arousal. Not many women can keep up with professional sex workers in real life...

I think the two or three hours of hardcore has much more of an impact in viewing women and self judgement/performance than 12 hours of WoW, I just don't see games imparting that much of an impact on the self narratives we form for ourselves. Then again, both are rooted in fantasy fulfillment so who knows...