Umm, that's because it should? If they are saying it seriously, they are pretty much killing themselves, or neglecting their kids for an MMO or something. Many people say this jokingly in a lot of things, such as binge watching a show on Netflix.
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Porn and video game addiction are leading to 'masculinity crisis'
- Thread starter theusedversion
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Umm, that's because it should? If they are saying it seriously, they are pretty much killing themselves, or neglecting their kids for an MMO or something. Many people say this jokingly in a lot of things, such as binge watching a show on Netflix.
psykobunny
Banned
Wow a lot of science deniers in here. The study was about men who play video games and jerk off to porn in EXCESS
He's actually really well established and well cited and respected. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss his findings
Yeah, it's kind of the typical knee-jerk reactions I would expect on here.
John Kowalski
Banned
I think they have Mustangs.
That's what renewable gender sources are for.
You nailed it right there. My parents ( who are in their 50's and 60's) freaked out when I told them that I have no interest in having kids. My mother even told me that she felt betrayed in a sense. So I can understand that.
hurricanes
Member
"Someone have a problem with my lifestyle so it must be women's fault!"
Please be joking.
Chris Murphy
Member
What's this about? Isn't this the opposite of what is portrayed.
Warablo
Member
At this point, maybe I should be rooting for VR..
entremet
Member
People again, traditional masculinity is defined by providing, protecting and fathering children in marriage. This is common across most cultures and their definitions of masculinity, not the caricature stuff from action movies.
It also has nothing to do with the toxic masculinity stuff that has been popular of late.
When researchers are talking about crises in masculinity that's what they mean.
It also has nothing to do with the toxic masculinity stuff that has been popular of late.
When researchers are talking about crises in masculinity that's what they mean.
Yeah more people should click through, its a legit study, hes not just pulling things out of his ass
bistromathics
facing a bright new dawn
Well both exist. The problem with the quoted article is that it has reduced the research to some brief sensational conclusions rather than expressing it as a whole. I'd bet that the published work has a better discussion
entremet
Member
Yep. It's a big generational shift.
theSlacker
Member
I like this post.
People also need to understand this instead of just assuming that people are bummed over the possibility of less wars and what not.
when young males see this picture and there first thought is 'eww what a hairy arm'
then i think we have a problem, i guess it's not anime enough.
see this gaf thread for proof...
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1037359
What? My arms is hairier than That!
And the sensationalist words such as "crisis" are the only reason this stuff or a lot of studies get news. Which causes knee-jerk reactions which the OP knew this would get when he posted it. Otherwise, it's yes, addiction causes psychological issues.
But also, I still think he's a hack.
The Omega Man
Member
Porn and Video games are ok, just don't mix them with Anime and you should be good.
Really Great Points.
That's a shallow look at the issue there. Work culture is producing a lot of single men and women. Social conditions have made it difficult for families to raise larger families, as society has become much more urban. Traditional outlets have been alcoholism, smoking, and gambling, and the shift to media consumption and collecting habits is really not a fundamental change here.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Thus the problem with nearly ALL pop-media reporting of psychology. It's infuriating. A study gets reduced to bite-sized news and fearmongering headlines.
Seamless
Didn't read the whole thing but the end is close to what I think:
Women are playing different roles in society from the 1950. (It's not totally impossible for a female to be the next American president). Men will have to adjust for the partnerships to still work. I think some people see this as the end of masculinity based on their definition of what it means to be masculine. Often, it's a definition that's still stuck in an era when "a woman's place is (only) in the home".
I don't think it's really a shallow look I very much think it could be a contributing factor among the other issues you have listed.
The study is specifically talking about men not seeking out marriage, family, and children which would directly lead to a decline in population. Japan also has a strong "otaku" culture which is exactly the kind of people this study looked at.
If they are using erectile dysfunction as their gauge of masculinity (which is stupid), then the porn thing makes sense to me, not so much the videogames.
It really seems this article is another case of another old person not understanding the past times of the current youth, and an opportunity for a sensational headline. It happened to me, it happened to my father, and my father's father. As far as I know this has been an observation by old people and a challenge for youth since the beginning of time.
It really seems this article is another case of another old person not understanding the past times of the current youth, and an opportunity for a sensational headline. It happened to me, it happened to my father, and my father's father. As far as I know this has been an observation by old people and a challenge for youth since the beginning of time.
So to even further distill this: Old man yells at clouds?
You are absolutely wrong. "Crisis" is justifiably used as it is in a lot of studies in psychology focusing on behavioural and mental health. The term is being used to identify what is a currently under appreciated phenomenon and one that needs more attention than it currently has, likely both in terms of research and treatment.
It is the article that makes it sensational by taking the words "masculinity crisis" out of context. The study is regarding "young men who play video games to excess, and do it in social isolation - they are alone in their room." As such, it is likely completely warranted considering the lack of research into the psychology and social dynamics involved in this sort of excessive behaviour; ie what he concludes to be an addiction in the scientific sense
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
Whats the definition of masculinity and addiction here?
Gnome Scat
Member
It's gonna ruin lives.
ZeroMaverick
Member
So...lemme get this straight.
We are supposed to be moving away from predisposed ideas about gender roles, right? Like, we aren't supposed to assume that all women should want to be in the kitchen or raising babies, right? And we aren't supposed to say, "You throw like a girl," right? But, for some reason, the issue of masculinity is still a topic of debate in modern psychology? Like, if a man's not "being a man" by working on cars or playing sports or whatever, his masculinity is in crisis?
I'm just trying to make sure I understand things properly.
We are supposed to be moving away from predisposed ideas about gender roles, right? Like, we aren't supposed to assume that all women should want to be in the kitchen or raising babies, right? And we aren't supposed to say, "You throw like a girl," right? But, for some reason, the issue of masculinity is still a topic of debate in modern psychology? Like, if a man's not "being a man" by working on cars or playing sports or whatever, his masculinity is in crisis?
I'm just trying to make sure I understand things properly.
SwordStruck
Member
I'm not worried about my masculinity because I go outside and chop wood for an hour every day.
/s
FloatingDivider
Member
I'll give him that accolade, as dubious as it may be. Doesn't change the fact that the man has a penchant, as do a lot of his peers, for reinterpreting a specific set of facts to tell a good story. I tend to like my science a little less storybook and a little more hard substantiated peer re-viewable fact.
Maybe, who knows. I rarely see him present incontrovertible proof for the causation of a specific fact, but I do see him present a lot of wishy washy story hour B.S that makes for an interesting book to write.
See above.
I'm not dismissing his statistical findings, I am dismissing his tenuously constructed argument that video games and porn are the sole causing factor for the specific subset of statistics he's selected.
Take for example his TED lecture, he gives you a bunch of stats where he compares boys to girls in fields of academia. These are valid stats, yet immediately following the presentation of those facts he makes an unsubstantiated leap that this must be caused by some sort of "new fear" of intimacy. He provides very little provable evidence that: this fear is new, more prevalent now, and not simply a result of men being more willing to self report a degree of social awkwardness. Nor does he prove that this social awkwardness is responsible for the lack of academic achievement. When someone use terms like I think it's caused by excessive internet use, excessive video gaming/porning they are not doing science. He's looking at a disparate set of stats and making up a story that seems to make sense to him internally. I apologize if I'm wrong in taking that with a serious grain of salt.
Kind of, yeah.
...Scatter...
Banned
I like the sensationalist title and then the context of "oh yeah, we're talking about neets who stay in their mom's basement".
Well duh. Unmotivated people with social anxiety disorders don't behave like prototypical people. The question is, are videogames and porn the cause (no) or just something one tends to do when they don't leave their house much.
Well duh. Unmotivated people with social anxiety disorders don't behave like prototypical people. The question is, are videogames and porn the cause (no) or just something one tends to do when they don't leave their house much.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
You don't understand it properly at all. That's not what's being said at all. For God's sakes, Zimbardo literally advocates for sex education talking about "emotions."
Whether it is justifiable use or not, "crisis" is still a buzzword in the media. If it didn't appear at all there would likely not even be an article covering this issue. And like I said, it basically boils down to "addiction is bad" which I guess is still news to people who think you can't be addicted to video games or porn. However, this story concludes nothing really that new as seen with the issue already being covered by Zimbardo, 3-4 years ago. Except now they just have more concrete data.
Consider "addiction" to be similar to something like gambling. It is a behaviour that has become habitual, and has impacts on the brain similar to that of addiction via substance abuse (as strange as that may sound) with similar consequences in terms of withdrawal and tolerance. It is a compulsive addictive behaviour.
You're missing the point. The words are used legitimately, and it is entirely on you to understand the context of why that is, particularly when talking about addiction (which is used correctly in the article). You shouldn't be taking offence to the notion of it, when most activities can be done to such an excess that it becomes an addiction and a real clinical problem that needs to be addressed. The discussion that this is something that isn't being dealt with is perfectly fine - and it in no way implies that this is true of ALL porn and video game users (although that seems to be what you are taking offence at)
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To be abundantly clear - this guy was the president of the American Psychological Association - the very same responsible for some of the leading scientific journals in America and widely used and respected around the world (also used in my very own thesis).
The guy is reputable and not a "hack"
orthodoxy1095
Banned
What do you think Zimbardo's ideal of a masculine man is? Did you read the article at all? He's not claiming that the problem is that they're not chopping wood and being "manly-men," but that they're rejecting emotional intimacy, contact and deep human relationships.
ZeroMaverick
Member
By using the term "masculinity" he is reinforcing predisposed gender roles.
when young males see this picture and there first thought is 'eww what a hairy arm'
then i think we have a problem, i guess it's not anime enough.
see this gaf thread for proof...
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1037359
Skinny, hairy arms are gross.
Yeah, if we're going to say there is a crisis because there are fewer 'masculine' providers then it should also be a crisis if there are fewer damsels to be provided for. It seems almost as if defining masculinity in that way is also asymmetric warfare on a career woman, for example, who opts not to have children because she doesn't have to, doesn't want to, and would rather keep her figure.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Maybe to your brain, and if you didn't bother reading the article. Because no, he's not. He's addressing the issue of men buying into the toxic modern meaning of "masculinity" (the "manly-man" view of being a man) and what he perceives as a emotional and social deficit in young men. We talk about "masculinity" in psychology because the "crisis of masculinity" is produced by the modern definition of masculinity itself. It inculcates an unhealthy view of maleness in young men.
Otaku culture is but a small part of the country and doesn't address the broad problems that the society has at its core. I would more argue that it is a manifestation of underlying social problems and that technology and economic progress are merely the tools that enabled it. Fundamentally, Japanese society is a highly-masculine and male-oriented society that does not accept social change, has well-defined objectives for male and female members of society in defining success, and ostracizes individuals who deviate from what is expected of them. If people want to solve Japan's declining population, they should first look into why its suicide rate is so high.
ZeroMaverick
Member
Do you have a link to his work because the article in the OP doesn't have this information.
Guys, guys, calm down a little. No one is advocating porn as rape prevention. I was just saying that watching porn is completely healthy in moderation. Anything taken in excess can be harmful, probably should've expanded upon that before.
And realizing that porn is an unrealistic representation of sex is pretty par if you're on the internet. Anyway, it's the same as a show on HS, like gillmore girls, or whatever new series kids watch. They understand it's a produced fabrication eventually.
chromatic9
Member
I think his argument would be that video games and porn are probably too good these days and much more captivating than other past times of seclusion like watching TV shows and stuff. You would probably get bored easier and maybe go out more, thus having more human contact, develop more social skills and not be shy around women, being able to hold a conversation with the opposite sex.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
I think this is the question that is debated within some circles right now: do they really learn it's a fabrication and do they really not inculcate some values from these media?
I think there are many within the field who would say, no. People "know" the sex they see in porn is a fantasy, or that the romance in The Notebook is a fantasy, but it's still possible that they're deriving values, expectations, hopes and dreams from those things.
Check out the book that covers the study. Man (Dis)Connected. I don't agree with many of his conclusions or rationales, and I don't even really like the study he used, but the ideas that he presents about young men growing up in the modern era are worth at least discussing. There is a "masculinity crisis," and its not that men aren't manly men. That is a fairly agreed upon sentiment within mainstream psychology.
the trend now is that most young people are holed up in their rooms because of videogames as it's much easier to socialize with people on the comfort of their couch.
With that being said, this topic hits home hard for me. My younger brother (who just turned 18) has always been social recluse because of video games and my parents just allowed it just so he didn't do the same dumb shit I did growing up (underage drinking, partying, etc). The consequence now is that he's completely awkward with everyone except for people online that he's never met in person. My mom is now afraid to send him off to the real world because she doesn't think he can take care of himself because he doesn't know how to do the most basic things such as cooking, paying bills and being responsible. He talks about going into the "real world" and owning a house and my dad says he doesn't know how to swing a hammer, work a saw, and anything that has to do with being a homeowner.
With that being said, it doesn;t make my brother any less masculine than the next person, but being holed up playing video games all day has stunted his personality and social skills so much that we believe that he's going to have the hardest time adjusting to the "real world" and taking care of himself and possibly others.