Support NeoGAF

[John Kowalski]

my yuri fantasies are coming true!

 

[HolyBaikal]

What kinda porn are you watching...?

I go out of my way to avoid violent and degrading and cruel sexual content. And I've seen far more than I would like of it.

It's hard to avoid this kind of thing, as an anime fan. I love anime, but I won't make any excuses for this part of anime culture. And I love anime, and I make excuses for a lot of parts of anime culture.

You don't have to go looking for horrible pornography, to find horrible pornography. It's the norm.

 

[Shake Appeal]

Nobody ever has to play Devil's Advocate. Just say sincere things.

I'm being sincere in all my posts. But I think it's usually better to be confrontational in the form of gentle questioning on behalf of a contrary position. And I was aware that some of what I've said in here may seem inconsistent.

 

[Bubbavelli]

And the BDSM community normalizes maledom and femsub and shames femdom and malesub. I think that's horrifying. All of the worst gender roles in the world are reflected in BDSM.

Have you watched femdom porn? Im not saying that to be condescending just a legimitate question because that shit is lit


My girlfriend's sister is really into bdsm. I havent really talked about it with her because i rarely see her and i imagine thatd be an odd conversation if my girlfriend knew. From the outside looking in, she seems to be a sub primarily but also a dom in other situations. What i do know is that shes a really strong woman who doesnt adhere to any gender roles or societal standards. She just happens to enjoy her sexuality that just so happens to he far from vanilla. Isnt that important?

 

[Deleted member 13876]

It's legit almost copy and paste from that thread.

Seems like it yeah.

 

[BannedEpisode]

This guy is projecting like a reel to reel.

 

[Laekon]

Well, if cellphones were invented in the 50's, we would have seen that trend spark up a lot sooner.

A lot of kids had an insta Polaroid cameras when I was in high school and yet I don't remember anything about girls sharing photos with boys they wanted to like them. Sure technology makes it much easier now but it wasn't impossible then.

 

[speculawyer]

This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a BangBus.

This is art.

 

[Brakke]

I'm being sincere in all my posts. But I think it's usually better to be confrontational in the form of gentle questioning on behalf of a contrary position. And I was aware that some of what I've said in here may seem inconsistent.

Yeah I read your post and I agree with it. This is more a style criticism. Your post reads just as strong and useful without establishing yourself as Devil's Advocate.

It didn't even seem like you were advocating for the Devil there. You straight up believed what you were saying and what you weren't saying was either provocative or confrontational.

 

[TheOGB]

Wait, you think that ALL porn is super fucked up, or just certain porn?

I think the porn industry is fucked up, not necessarily all pornography itself.

 

[Jburton]

Well that was a well written piece of crap.

 

[Mr. Giggles]

Huh, I always thought people did what they do in pron because it caters to the kinks/fetishes of the audience... I disagree with the connections made by the author.

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

I think the porn industry is fucked up, not necessarily all pornography itself.

Yeah, sure, images/videos of two consenting adults practicing safe sex is fine.

Commodification and literally turning men and women into products to be sold on the other hand...

 

[THRILLH0]

Sex shaming. One of the great contributions of organized religion.

Your reading comprehension is horrific.

 

[Ms.Galaxy]

Trust is a part of BDSM. And most of it is consensual.

But that doesn't mean it's the only part. And that there aren't bad parts.
Why would you want to call someone sexual or racial slurs in the bedroom if you love them?

Is roleplaying with your black girlfriend as a slave on a plantation really just harmless and doesn't mean anything more? And doesn't reflect internalized misogyny and racism?

My boyfriend loves me to death and I know when he calls me his slut, his whore, his "cock sock", he actually doesn't mean those things and furthermore I practically beg him to call me those things under my will. He treats me with great respect, and if I don't feel comfortable with him calling me that during sex, he'll apologize and treat me more lovingly instead.

As for the rough stuff, we don't go all the way with the BDSM. The furthest is when I asked him to whip me with his belt and pin me against the wall while he does his thing, but note that I said I asked him to do it. He had my permission to abuse me during sex and he was alright doing what I asked. If I ask him to do something he's not into, like slapping me across the face, he'll tell me he doesn't feel comfortable and I'll just say its okay, he doesn't have to do it.

Is he misogynistic? Heavens no, he treats me like his equal, and sometimes like a goddess. Do I hold any internalized misogyny, not really. I just like it rough, the feeling of a bit of pain just heightens my pleasure and I don't hold such slurs as malicious during sex with him because I know that he doesn't put much weight into them. If I feel uncomfortable having that kind of sex, I'll tell him and we'll just have more traditional, but extremely passionate sex. Really, it's all about trust and risky fun.

 

[YoungFa]

What about femdom porn tho?

 

[Kinyou]

And the BDSM community normalizes maledom and femsub and shames femdom and malesub. I think that's horrifying. All of the worst gender roles in the world are reflected in BDSM.

How do they shame it? The dominatrix is kind of iconic for BDSM.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

Not necessarily it doesn't. The character of consumption of the one is probably different than the other.

I guarantee there are more than 60 million people who have purchased (or viewed ads on) male-oriented porn films in the time since Fifty Shades released.

A lot of research suggests women are more drawn to literature and written depictions of erotica, while men respond a lot more to visual cues. Bisexuals seem to show a greater tendency to enjoy both. I get that you're trying to isolate 50 Shades as a standout success and looking at it from afar it is. Currently it seems to be the one mainstream sanctioned porn for women. That said, the romance genre on Amazon has experienced an enormous boom and is generating a lot of revenue as well. Maybe not comparable to the mainstream porn industry but it is significant.

 

[Kai Dracon]

The delusional leap from shaved pubes to child porn just demonstrates how poorly understood sensuality and sex are by those who oppose displays of them.

But, it has been said before that the fastest way to discover who is actually has any understanding of other human beings, is to bring up sex. Sexuality is such a fount of insecurity within a repressive culture, one quickly sees who isn't as mature as they believe they are.

 

[esms]

"cock sock"

Stealing this.

 

[THRILLH0]

It's interesting that in the black twitter/reddit thread some people were at least willing to examine the role of racial stereotypes in humour but when it comes to porn nobody gives a fuck beyond "but they consented!!"

 

[HariKari]

cruel, hardcore, violent porn

What is this person watching?

 

[injurai]

god damn it's too mother fucking cold out to be talkin bout this shit

ain't enough warm blood to get me in the mood

east coast sperm counts at record lows

 

[Rex Griswold]

While I know that some people mean violence in a playful way. Like playing Smash Bros. or something like that. Or that friends enjoy "banter" together. And that BDSM is often consensual. It really disturbs me.

I feel like BDSM fantasies don't come from a vacuum. And send harmful gender messages.

Like, the majority of pornography is maledom. And I love anime because it's often cute and happy and heartwarming. Cuteness and kindness of two of my three favourite things in love. So that's why I love anime.

But I stay far away from eroge and most visual novels because sexualizing violence is the opposite of cute and kind and happy. It normalizes violent feelings and fantasies that don't come from empathy. And it promotes the idea that women's sexuality is subservient and that women are supposed to be "pure" or not as sexual or sexually assertive as men.

And the BDSM community normalizes maledom and femsub and shames femdom and malesub. I think that's horrifying. All of the worst gender roles in the world are reflected in BDSM.

I'm a kink critical radical feminist, because I think that things like this are awful.

I think all of this is painful to think about. And I wish I didn't know about it. I want to live in an innocent world without the horrors of rape. In a world that women aren't expected to be submissive. In a world where cruelty and violence aren't sexualized. Where most people want to express their sexuality in an empathetic way.

What the fuck nonsense did I just read?

The fact that you used "often" when regarding consent in a BDSM relationship just shuts down any and all credibility you probably didn't even have. The single most important thing in a BDSM relationship is the trust. It's not about "often being consensual", it's about trusting your partner. When your partner says stop or you put away the restraints, you drop out of that character and get right back to loving each other to death.

By the way, you cannot claim to be a feminist if those are genuinely your views.

 

[Kinyou]

 

[MattyG]

I think the porn industry is fucked up, not necessarily all pornography itself.

Ah, ok. I can see where you're coming from on that one then.

 

[HolyBaikal]

Have you watched femdom porn?

I've seen more things that I would like to admit. And more things than I would like to have seen. I guess it makes me less cute in the eyes of many... and makes me a more "lewd" person. Especially since in many cultures, sadly, femininity and cute femininity... in particular.. it seems.. is associated with "purity".

I don't want to comment on whether I'm totally vanilla or whether I've seen it because I'm slightly submissive for women and feminine people. My sexual feelings like that are personal. And I don't think the thread would take a good direction that way...

But maledom is the norm in pornography. Most "vanilla" pornography is actually maledom. And femdom is very niche in comparison. And many of the things that men do in "vanilla" pornography, are considered degrading, emasculiting femdom when women do it to men. Over %90 of pornography I've had the unfortunate experience of seeing, has been maledom. While it seems like you really have to search for femdom, and it makes less than %1.

 

[CONRAD]

Porn isn't mainstream enough. I wish I could post videos of me fucking on Facebook and get feedback.

 

[Brakke]

A lot of research suggests women are more drawn to literature and written depictions of erotica, while men respond a lot more to visual cues. Bisexuals seem to show a greater tendency to enjoy both. I get that you're trying to isolate 50 Shades as a standout success and looking at it from afar it is. Currently it seems to be the one mainstream sanctioned porn for women. That said, the romance genre on Amazon has experienced an enormous boom and is generating a lot of revenue as well. Maybe not comparable to the mainstream porn industry but it is significant.

Yeah I feel you. I was actually curious how they figured women-marketed erotica was bigger than the kind of porn we're talking about here. I would love to know some kind of industry metrics (who buys, how many buy, how much do they buy, etc) about "romance literature".

It's interesting that in the black twitter/reddit thread some people were at least willing to examine the role of racial stereotypes in humour but when it comes to porn nobody gives a fuck beyond "but they consented!!"

Yeah porn is a weird space like that. Every time I've seen porn come up here there's like a thousand "who pays for porn lol" posts. Meanwhile that's a pretty complicated idea there, that it'd ok to pirate porn, or that it's ok to expect this thing to be free; that it's totally beyond the pale to consider paying for it. People are so flip about porn, so reticent to direct any critical capacity to it.

 

[THRILLH0]

But maledom is the norm in pornography. Most "vanilla" pornography is actually maledom. And femdom is very niche in comparison. And many of the things that men do in "vanilla" pornography, are considered degrading, emasculiting femdom when women do it to men. Over %90 of pornography I've had the unfortunate experience of seeing, has been maledom. While it seems like you really have to search for femdom, and it makes less than %1.

This really is insightful, especially the bolded. Too bad it will be dismissed out of hand.

 

[striferser]

Author need to see better porn than whatever shit he's watching

 

[Ferrio]

This really is insightful, especially the bolded. Too bad it will be dismissed out of hand.

What are these things? Penetration?

Vanilla porn is pretty much missionary fucking, that's it, maybe some doggy style thrown in.

At that point you're just classifying the act of sex as being degrading.

 

[THRILLH0]

Author need to see better porn than whatever shit he's watching

Yeah mate that's totally the solution to the very real issues the author was exploring. Quality post.

 

[HolyBaikal]

The fact that you used "often" when regarding consent in a BDSM relationship just shuts down any and all credibility you probably didn't even have.

But there are rapists who are into BDSM. I can't say always because of that.

I know that most people in BDSM do practice safewords and consent and that trust is very important. But it wouldn't be true if I didn't say there weren't rapists or very sexually exploitative people into BDSM.

The single most important thing in a BDSM relationship is the trust.

I'm sure it is. But can't you have trust in sex without trying someone up, having them say no, and calling them misogynistic and racist slurs?

I'm pretty sure the fetish or the kink isn't about the trust. Trust is just a part of it.

By the way, you cannot claim to be a feminist if those are genuinely your views.

So... kink critical radical feminism.. isn't feminism?

 

[The Technomancer]

While most of this isn't really worth addressing, there is a long history of social commentary/criticism exploring the modern sexualization of consumer goods and conspicuous consumption--nothing new there, and not particularly controversial.

Yup

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

I love Gale Dines. She perfectly encapsulates how I feel about commercialized pornography.

Pro-porn people are the same as gamergaters. Too afraid of change, equality, and getting their games/porn "taken away" to see the real issues with what they love.


I should clarify that when I say porn I'm talking about the commercialized misogyny that permeates the internet. Not amateur stuff people make in their bedrooms.

 

[The Technomancer]

What is this person watching?

A lot of porn is "violent". I...sort of agree with at least the perspective the author is trying to articulate, but every specific point is completely off the rails

 

[echoshifting]

But there are rapists who are into BDSM. I can't say always because of that.

I know that most people in BDSM do practice safewords and consent and that trust is very important. But it wouldn't be true if I didn't say there weren't rapists or very sexually exploitative people into BDSM.

Sexual torture and bdsm are not really the same thing, are they? I confess I don't know much about bdsm at all but I think self-identification - for all involved parties - is an important component.

 

[HolyBaikal]

My boyfriend loves me to death and I know when he calls me his slut, his whore, his "cock sock", he actually doesn't mean those things and furthermore I practically beg him to call me those things under my will. He treats me with great respect, and if I don't feel comfortable with him calling me that during sex, he'll apologize and treat me more lovingly instead.

I'm sure that's true. I just wonder, and it concerns me why people would want to be degraded like that with someone they love.

Just hearing those words in making me cringe and feel very uncomfortable because of the sexist history with them. Because they're just not nice words. I don't know why anyone would want to be called that, for sexual or non-sexual reasons.

Do I hold any internalized misogyny, not really.

Really? I feel like everyone on the planet has internalized some sexism and racism and homophobia and transphobia, even if we don't realize it.

Outwardly, I'm against transphobia. But I know I have internalized transphobia, because I was born in a transphobic society. It would be impossible for me not to have some internalized transphobia.

 

[The Technomancer]

To be more specific, the problems in porn aren't either a cause or a result, but should be seen as both of those things. Like many things its part of the great reflexive loop that is a society's relationship to its media

 

[Bubbavelli]

But maledom is the norm in pornography. Most "vanilla" pornography is actually maledom. And femdom is very niche in comparison. And many of the things that men do in "vanilla" pornography, are considered degrading, emasculiting femdom when women do it to men. Over %90 of pornography I've had the unfortunate experience of seeing, has been maledom. While it seems like you really have to search for femdom, and it makes less than %1.

This. This is a great critique of how porn stands. You lost me at the slave/plantation owner bdsm porn but this is good.

Can porn be damaging? Hell yeah i can agree with that as a person who watches a lot of porn. As a person who watches a lot of porn, do i consider myself sexist? Not at all.

As women's knowledge of self is increasing and as they shift away from established gender roles, i can see the paradigm of porn changing if women become more of a creator than just an actress.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I love Gale Dines. She perfectly encapsulates how I feel about commercialized pornography.

Pro-porn people are the same as gamergaters. Too afraid of change, equality, and getting their games/porn "taken away" to see the real issues with what they love.


I should clarify that when I say porn I'm talking about the commercialized misogyny that permeates the internet. Not amateur stuff people make in their bedrooms.

Uhh, there's plenty of shitty things about porn, but this article has no connection with reality. If there was an article like "Asian men should stop being portrayed so negatively in porn." and a bunch of people posted "how dare you!"... That might be kind of like #GGers.

This article is more similar to something like "video games are a product of war culture and inevitability lead to mass shootings."

 

[-tetsuo-]

That article is straight up comedy

 

[0.1.1.2.3.5.8.13.21.34.55]

.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

I'm sure that's true. I just wonder, and it concerns me why people would want to be degraded like that with someone they love.

Just hearing those words in making me cringe and feel very uncomfortable because of the sexist history with them. Because they're just not nice words. I don't know why anyone would want to be called that, for sexual or non-sexual reasons.

What I'm getting from this is that you don't understand something. That's fine and I'm inclined to agree you don't, but the problem is that you seem to be condemning all things that make you uncomfortable as stuff that is inherently evil.

I also don't get your point that the greater popularity of maledom completely invalidates all of femdom.

 

[DiscoShark]

I love Gale Dines. She perfectly encapsulates how I feel about commercialized pornography.

Pro-porn people are the same as gamergaters. Too afraid of change, equality, and getting their games/porn "taken away" to see the real issues with what they love.


I should clarify that when I say porn I'm talking about the commercialized misogyny that permeates the internet. Not amateur stuff people make in their bedrooms.

I feel like this view ignores the recent surge of like the X-Art-ish type of porn where there's much more focus on the mutual passion of the couple (god that feels weird to type) rather than the satisfaction of the male / dominance of the female. You can simultaneously like "commercialized" porn and be against the previous generation's focus on maledom as well.

That said, you still rarely ever see an interracial couple without the fact that they're interracial being either the focus of the video or the black performer being some hugely jacked dude.

 

[Rex Griswold]

But there are rapists who are into BDSM. I can't say always because of that.

Okay. Because of THIS statement, I'm done talking to you.

It is NOT BDSM if there is no consent.

Repeat after me.

THEY ARE RAPING.

BDSM and fucking rape are not even in the same... anything.

Edit: I'm irate as all hell because this is a disgusting generalization and you should really do some research before lumping a violent crime in with a sexual preference.

 

[HolyBaikal]

What I'm getting for this is that you don't understand something.

So where does my horror at misogynistic words like these come from, and other people sexual pleasure from them come from?

All sexual comes from somewhere. Whether we're born with it or something like that.

I also don't get your point that the greater popularity of maledom completely invalidates femdom.

I'm not saying that femdom is invalidated. I'm saying it's treated as niche and not normalized like maledom is. Femdom and malesub fantasies are suppressed.

 

[Rafy]

And they still have to go on Kink.com... I'd pay to see the writer of the article reacting to watching a Kink movie for the first time!

 

[Riposte]

back to hentai i guess.

When porn has suffocated the earth and all humans are dead, anime will rise in their place.