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[TheSpecialOne]

I mean... me too. But I disagree.

And here i thought you were going to post a good looking game. The witcher 3 doesn't even look better than for honor talk-less of uc4. This graphics hardon for the TW3 has got to stop. It's an average looking game that'll age very poorly.

Batman Arkham Knight looks better, AC Unity looks better, HZD looks better, Star Wars Battlefront looks better. I mean, even Crysis 3 looks better. You'd be hard pressed to find a big budget AAA game that doesn't looks better than TW3 especially on consoles.

 

[Dictator93]

Why do people always ignore the fact low - mid end PCs hold high end PC back just as much as consoles do?

One cannot forget though how even low end PC CPUs are better than the console CPUs.

I am pretty sure this dev is not exactly talking about GPU performance... probably RAM and CPU single threaded performance.

 

[geordiemp]

I mean, Zelda is also only available on an extremely limited supply new console and the wii u which was a failure. And sales don't define quality. And GTAV is hardly a new or cutting edge game either at this point

Quality is subjective, I know every zelda game gets > 90, but using Nintendo 'inflated' scores to suggest games are fine populated with a few enemies at 720p I dont agree with, sorry.

 

[Jingo]

Isnt ps4 and xbox one also slowing pc? And all the other generations of consoles? Im yet to see a game on a pc that looks miles away from the consoles.

 

[Ravelle]

I'd say it challenges them, the PS4 is more capable than you think.

I mean, look at what Naughty Dog and Guerrilla Games is still able to do with it.

 

[120v]

If PS4 is holding PC back, than why does a first party game like Horizon Zero Dawn make anything on PC look like an upscaled port of a gen 1 console game? Where is that one massive game like Crysis. Where is that one high profile PC exclusive that takes even the slightest bit of power from a single Titan X? If the answer is Black Desert or Arma 3, we got problems.

Truth be told, do we really want anything that surpasses the power we have now when a God of War in 4K takes up half the hard drive space? Also, what do companies want to do with all that power? Shadow of War fetch quest games with a 200 million dollar budget? Seems like the more power we get, the more static worlds we get. I'd rather play an HD ps1 game like Minecraft if it means more gameplay possibilities.

not that Horizon isn't a miraculous feat for the hardware but nobody has the resources to optimize a PC game like Guerrilla did with ps4. except Valve of course, but we all know the story there

 

[NullPointer]

It was technically outdated from the jump.

Outdated for what exactly?

What PC games are held back from coming to the consoles that aren't only because of UI/controller interface issues?

 

[KageMaru]

This I agree with. I've been saying it's more about the budget, resource and the developer skill level than it is about power.

And with them being an indie studio, they aren't guaranteed to have any of that. So when criticism about the game's presentation come up, he has a good reason to point at consoles since they are a necessary evil. He needs to support them to get funding but they do impose their own set of limitations. If the lowest common denominator was the Pro and X, it would take less effort, and less time/money, to reach the intended level of fidelity.

Of course with more power, expectations tend to rise, raising budgets and demands even higher but that's for a different conversation entirely. Basically in the end, if the E3 trailer is their goal, their jobs would be easier if the base consoles were more powerful.

 

[Aaronrules380]

Quality is subjective, I know every zelda game gets > 90, but using Nintendo 'inflated' scores to suggest games are fine populated with a few enemies at 720p I dont agree with, sorry.

Most people who have actually played it loved it.

 

[KillerMan91]

Budgets are holding developers back and more powerful hardware makes the problem just bigger. Reason why exclusive PC games that really push graphics have pretty much died.

 

[RedSwirl]

It's mostly money, but I guess you could make the argument that Sony's and Microsoft's choices of CPU are holding things back a bit.

 

[OptimusLime]

Im yet to see a game on a pc that looks miles away from the consoles.

NotSureIfSerious.gif

 

[Laiza]

And with them being an indie studio, they aren't guaranteed to have any of that. So when criticism about the game's presentation come up, he has a good reason to point at consoles since they are a necessary evil. He needs to support them to get funding but they do impose their own set of limitations. If the lowest common denominator was the Pro and X, it would take less effort, and less time/money, to reach the intended level of fidelity.

Of course with more power, expectations tend to rise, raising budgets and demands even higher but that's for a different conversation entirely. Basically in the end, if the E3 trailer is their goal, their jobs would be easier if the base consoles were more powerful.

This, basically.

It's just easier to work with a higher baseline when their goals are as strict as they are. They're not saying that what they're after is impossible on the consoles, just that they have to work harder to meet their performance targets given the asset quality they want.

 

[geordiemp]

Most people who have actually played it loved it.

Thats fine, its subjective, when I had Wii Excite truck for me was >>>>>>>>>> Zelda TP which I got bored after second dungeon.

I prefer action, challenging combat that is involved and lots of enemies so its not for me. Excite truck was great though.

The point of this thread is would it not be better if there was 10-15 enemies around that fire (CPU), For me yes it would.

 

[TheSpecialOne]

NotSureIfSerious.gif

Please enlighten me, my high end pc remains untested.

 

[Jingo]

NotSureIfSerious.gif

5 years away difference?

 

[Aaronrules380]

NotSureIfSerious.gif

I mean, even if the point of this thread is that consoles hold PC games back, that wouldn't explain the lack of PC exclusives that looks miles ahead of consoles. Of course, part of the reason is that even without consoles most pc users don't have high end pcs anyways

 

[RedSwirl]

I really like the irony of people defending the PS4 now but complaining about cross-gen games a few years ago.

Just look at what happens when a 3DS game is announced.

I never wanted to say it, but has sort of been a thing with some people. They'll want consoles to constantly push the bleeding edge and complain when developers stick with older hardware, but turn around and defend consoles against high-end PCs or even upgraded consoles coming out three years later because they don't want to upgrade too often.

Some people just want to be comfortable knowing they possess the bleeding edge hardware and for it to stay that way for five years straight without them having to spend more than $400. That's not possible. Computer technology constantly marches forward at a rate much faster than that, but at the same time it's more economical for most developers to target mature, affordable hardware. Some people want to act like consoles are the bleeding edge while also knowing they're really just in the middle.

Maybe they got like this because of how consoles used to expensive hardware sold at a loss.

 

[Josman]

Curse the PS4 for having a 60 million base where devs can sell their games, it's really hurting them

 

[OptimusLime]

Ok just for clarity, "miles" is 5 years, and the proof has to be a PC exclusive? These goalposts move quickly, I need to be sure.

 

[Aaronrules380]

Ok just for clarity, "miles" is 5 years, and the proof has to be a PC exclusive? These goalposts move quickly, I need to be sure.

I mean, the claim here is that the technology of consoles is holding back PC games, so while the example doesn't have to be PC Exclusive, I would imagine a PC Exclusive would be the easiest example of a "game not held back by consoles" to find. I imagine the 5 year thing is coming from how old the ps4 xbox one specs are

 

[Stiler]

This is a real time cutscene, the in-game model is not that high quality. Also a game is not made only of character model. Uncharted 4 looks really, really, really good, and it's amazing art direction helps making it looks even better. But stop if you think that's the most technical amazing game currently.

Show me a current pc title that can get anywhere near UC4 in terms of its graphical fidelity throughout the entire game from it's animations, details, physics, facial animations, etc.

Same with Horizon Zero Dawn.

If the ps4 is supposedly "holding" back pc games, then that would mean that these two games, one being a linear story driven game and the other being a huge open world rpg, would be examples of the lower end of pc graphics for current games, but they are not, by far.

The majority of pc releases do not hit anywhere near the quality of either of these games in terms of the graphical fidelity/animation detail, etc as a whole.

Even Witcher 3, which looks great, does not outshine Uncharted when it comes to facial detail/animations or physics/movement.

 

[Trace]

I mean, even if the point of this thread is that consoles hold PC games back, that wouldn't explain the lack of PC exclusives that looks miles ahead of consoles. Of course, part of the reason is that even without consoles most pc users don't have high end pcs anyways

There just isn't money to be made in PC exclusives, so you're not going to see that Crysis AAA money put into a PC exclusive anymore. The closest thing you're probably going to get is Star Citizen which looks absolutely insane (at least IMO).

https://fat.gfycat.com/ContentExcellentCommabutterfly.webm

 

[KageMaru]

I mean, even if the point of this thread is that consoles hold PC games back, that wouldn't explain the lack of PC exclusives that looks miles ahead of consoles. Of course, part of the reason is that even without consoles most pc users don't have high end pcs anyways

It's true that high end PCs make up a smaller portion of the PC market, but even when looking at the minimum requirements, they usually beat out consoles handedly.

Curse the PS4 for having a 60 million base where devs can sell their games, it's really hurting them

I don't think you understand the point he was trying to make.

What is it with people getting so defensive over what's said about a piece of plastic?

 

[Laiza]

I mean, the claim here is that the technology of consoles is holding back PC games, so while the example doesn't have to be PC Exclusive, I would imagine a PC Exclusive would be the easiest example of a "game not held back by consoles" to find. I imagine the 5 year thing is coming from how old the ps4 xbox one specs are

Show me a current pc title that can get anywhere near UC4 in terms of its graphical fidelity throughout the entire game from it's animations, details, physics, facial animations, etc.

Same with Horizon Zero Dawn.

If the ps4 is supposedly "holding" back pc games, then that would mean that these two games, one being a linear story driven game and the other being a huge open world rpg, would be examples of the lower end of pc graphics for current games, but they are not, by far.

The majority of pc releases do not hit anywhere near the quality of either of these games in terms of the graphical fidelity/animation detail, etc as a whole.

Even Witcher 3, which looks great, does not outshine Uncharted when it comes to facial detail/animations or physics/movement.

You guys are taking the title quote too literally.

The dev was literally just complaining about the difficulty of hitting performance targets on old consoles as an indie developer. That's it.

Mentioning how first-party devs (with access to resources that are obviously far in excess of what an indie developer could possibly ever have) managed to do just fine is kind of missing the entire point.

 

[Gurnlei]

Show me a current pc title that can get anywhere near UC4 in terms of its graphical fidelity throughout the entire game from it's animations, details, physics, facial animations, etc.

Same with Horizon Zero Dawn.

If the ps4 is supposedly "holding" back pc games, then that would mean that these two games, one being a linear story driven game and the other being a huge open world rpg, would be examples of the lower end of pc graphics for current games, but they are not, by far.

The majority of pc releases do not hit anywhere near the quality of either of these games in terms of the graphical fidelity/animation detail, etc as a whole.

Even Witcher 3, which looks great, does not outshine Uncharted when it comes to facial detail/animations or physics/movement.

IMO this is all because of budget. Console exclusives can afford to put money towards assets because they have a guaranteed install base. PC exclusives can't rely on that market since most are closer to a PS4 level hardware wise.

I would love to see a team given the budget of Uncharted 4 and cater it towards top of the line GPUs/CPUs.

 

[The Greek Freak]

Well then they can put out a new machine instead of these trash half steps.

My biggest question about half step systems is how do we push the generation further if games are mandated to run on base model systems?

You can't without fucking early adopters.

Clean breaks are the only thing that makes sense beyond milking idiots for an extra 4-5 hundred.

 

[LittleBigGamer]

For a moment I believed that we went back in time. In 90s, Early 00s.
These statements are too old.

I thought we had a mature gaming community these days.

 

[CJY]

Shitty article.

The chosen quote is shittier than the article itself

 

[Nuno Pinto]

I played Horizon just a few months ago on a base PS4.

This console is fine lol

Whenever something new launches the developers are being held back, there's always something better. Just learn how to work and do your best with what you have, you can still make great things. We can't have a new console every single year.

 

[TheSpecialOne]

There just isn't money to be made in PC exclusives, so you're not going to see that Crysis AAA money put into a PC exclusive anymore. The closest thing you're probably going to get is Star Citizen which looks absolutely insane (at least IMO).

.

1 unreleased game that likely won't be fully released before ps5/xb2 which will be powerful enough to run the game.

 

[Rellik]

Agreed. I'm ready for the PS5 and hopefully it's announced next year.

 

[Lord Panda]

There just isn't money to be made in PC exclusives, so you're not going to see that Crysis AAA money put into a PC exclusive anymore. The closest thing you're probably going to get is Star Citizen which looks absolutely insane (at least IMO).

https://fat.gfycat.com/ContentExcellentCommabutterfly.webm

I will be building a new PC around this game.

 

[Jedi2016]

I fail to see how this argument is any different from every other console ever made. Since the advent of cross-platform games, consoles have always held back PCs. PS4 isn't suddenly doing anything differently in that regard.

 

[Papo Swing]

A game like Horizon begs to differ. Not only because it looks so good on that old hardware, but also because I doubr even with more powerful consoles they'd try to do a lot more.

 

[OptimusLime]

I mean, the claim here is that the technology of consoles is holding back PC games, so while the example doesn't have to be PC Exclusive, I would imagine a PC Exclusive would be the easiest example of a "game not held back by consoles" to find. I imagine the 5 year thing is coming from how old the ps4 xbox one specs are

Thats pretty laser focused. I would point out that non-exclusive games do look "miles" ahead on a high end rig compared to their console counterparts. Even something as widespread as Overwatch benefits greatly graphics-wise from being on a top-level PC.

To be honest, Im not sure I can find a PC exclusive to demonstrate my point, its not worth AAA studio time to develop solely for top end PCs. But if one was to drop such a title, in my opinion it would be light-years ahead of any other current AAA console title. How could it not with true 4k+, 60+fps, massive CPUs, and FreeSync 144Hz+ type monitor technologies available to PC?

 

[reptilescorpio]

"You want the honest truth? This machine is not so strong as you think," Fares says, pointing to the PS4 running his game. "This is like a five-year-old PC. If consoles were as powerful as PCs are today, you would see all different games. Most of the work developers put out there is to make them work on consoles."

I'm sure that means the Pro/X annoyed the hell out of him since he's still shackled to the PS4/X1 rather than the new hardware.

Won't be the only dev saying this IMO.

 

[TheFatMan]

Sounds like a guy making excuses.

When you're game looks better then Horizon Zero Dawn you can start complaining about not having enough power.

 

[martincrimson87]

I never wanted to say it, but has sort of been a thing with some people. They'll want consoles to constantly push the bleeding edge and complain when developers stick with older hardware, but turn around and defend consoles against high-end PCs or even upgraded consoles coming out three years later because they don't want to upgrade too often.

Some people just want to be comfortable knowing they possess the bleeding edge hardware and for it to stay that way for five years straight without them having to spend more than $400. That's not possible. Computer technology constantly marches forward at a rate much faster than that, but at the same time it's more economical for most developers to target mature, affordable hardware. Some people want to act like consoles are the bleeding edge while also knowing they're really just in the middle.

Maybe they got like this because of how consoles used to expensive hardware sold at a loss.

this post was great. Someone had to say it.

 

[MazeHaze]

1 unreleased game that likely won't be fully released before ps5/xb2 which will be powerful enough to run the game.

UC4 and HZD are beautiful games. I played the latter on an HDR display and it blew me away. But both of these games in motion running at 30fps give them a soft look due to the motion blur that's there to cover up how jerky 30 fps is. On pc these games could run native 4k at 60 fps, which would be incredible to see.

If I'm being honest, games like Shadow Warrior 2, Rise of The Tomb Raider, and TW3 at 4k/60 look better in motion than UC4 or HZD. Screenshots are one thing, but when you turn the camera the image just smears, which isn't the case for high fidelity PC games.

 

[jim2point0]

And here i thought you were going to post a good looking game. The witcher 3 doesn't even look better than for honor talk-less of uc4.

You say that like For Honor isn't fucking gorgeous. That game looks insane.

 

[KageMaru]

For a moment I believed that we went back in time. In 90s, Early 00s.
These statements are too old.

I thought we had a mature gaming community these days.

Yeah it's kind of sad that unless a developer is praising any or all of the platforms, there is backlash when they try to share some insight into the development side of things. I've seen it with Xbox gamers with Matt when he's trying to temper expectations with the X instead of treating it like the next coming of christ, I've seen it from PC gamers when a dev compares the Pro or X favorably against more expensive PCs, and we see it again from PlayStation fans in this thread even though he's talking about consoles in general.

 

[MazeHaze]

Sounds like a guy making excuses.

When you're game looks better then Horizon Zero Dawn you can start complaining about not having enough power.

This argument is ridiculous. There is no possible way for an indie dev to have the same budget as a major first party flagship title.

 

[perfectsil]

PS4 Pro shows what more powerful hardware can do, even tho it's still shackled by base PS4

 

[MrCaliaztec]

So these guys make a time exclusive game for the Xbox One, and bad mouth the PS4 for holding them back? Even though their first game was developed for a weaker console firstly, and this very same game is also being developed for that same slightly weaker console but they feel the need to point and call out the PS4. I find this very funny.

 

[NullPointer]

PS4 Pro shows what more powerful hardware can do, even tho it's still shackled by base PS4

Those are some damn nice shackles.

 

[Icedburden]

Every argument with console power boils down to, "I want top-end PC power, but at half the price." It isn't going to happen. When you start designing a console two years beforehand, there are thousands of things to take into account.
Most people seem to think they can throw stuff together and boom!, an affordable yet powerful console appears. Look at all the "lol no" quotes for the XBONEX. 500 for a pretty robust console power-wise. You HAVE to have trade-offs somewhere.

 

[A-V-B]

Isn't this the case with most consoles? Pretty good on release, but down the road PCs catch up and surpass it. And consoles stay surpassed until the next iteration is out.

 

[LittleBigGamer]

Yeah it's kind of sad that unless a developer is praising any or all of the platforms, there is backlash when they try to share some insight into the development side of things. I've seen it with Xbox gamers with Matt when he's trying to temper expectations with the X instead of treating it like the next coming of christ, I've seen it from PC gamers when a dev compares the Pro or X favorably against more expensive PCs, and we see it again from PlayStation fans in this thread even though he's talking about consoles in general.

You can criticise or praise any system with legit arguments.

the ''holding developers back" thing is very old and stupid.

Developers know that a console can't cost 900 euros, and if they have to make the 'A Way Out' game exclusive for a system, a 400 console will be the most reasonable choice.

when ps3 was 600 euros, devs were really unhappy. I remember them to say that it needs I price drop.

cheap console=more people to buy it= more games to sell= more money for developers=better production values.

Easy.

 

[ronaldthump]

There just isn't money to be made in PC exclusives, so you're not going to see that Crysis AAA money put into a PC exclusive anymore. The closest thing you're probably going to get is Star Citizen which looks absolutely insane (at least IMO).

https://fat.gfycat.com/ContentExcellentCommabutterfly.webm

isnt this vapourware? I'm surprised you posted gifs.


anyhow, choice quote to pull from that whole article you can't disagree with him but then, if he thinks PS4 is a 5 year old pc, then what is xbox one or a switch?