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[KageMaru]

You can criticise or praise any system with legit arguments.

the ''holding developers back" thing is very old and stupid.

Developers know that a console can't cost 900 euros, and if they have to make the 'A Way Out' game exclusive for a system, a 400 console will be the most reasonable choice.

when ps3 was 600 euros, devs were really unhappy. I remember them to say that it needs I price drop.

cheap console=more people to buy it= more games to sell= more money for developers=better production values.

Easy.

Thing is his comment is legit.

 

[stargateheaven]

When you have games like horizon and uncharted it makes me feel like why would you need more power? What held them back?

 

[LittleBigGamer]

Thing is his comment is legit.

This ''holding back'' thing no.

childish comment.

 

[jonscrambler]

When you have games like horizon and uncharted it makes me feel like why would you need more power? What held them back?

Do these games not look (a lot) better on PS4 Pro?

If we have PS4 Pro 2/PS5 remasters that can run them at even higher resolution/settings/framerate, would they not look even better?

 

[LittleBigGamer]

Do these games not look (a lot) better on PS4 Pro?

imo no.

 

[jobrro]

With often 3 year development cycles I am pretty sure many devs should be starting work on the first PS5 era games in the next 12-18 months anyway.

 

[Button]

Do these games not look (a lot) better on PS4 Pro?

Uncharted looks cleaner on Pro, but Horizon is almost identical.

 

[ronaldthump]

This ''holding back'' thing no.

childish comment.

I think its more an observation - like saying "we could have done more but we're limited by the base hardware" - which I think is a fair enough statement - but that said if they had more grunt, I wonder if they really use more. its all talk until you make it happen

 

[dr guildo]

I just can't stop laughing about this thread...

A reminder from what I posted before:

Forget consoles exist and think about how mixed the PC environment is in terms of hardware. What % of the worlds PCs are top notch?

...then continue laughing your way through the day!

I think this post is the most wise post I read in this thread... Nothing more to add...

 

[TetraGenesis]

I mean. That's how consoles work? You can get a PS4 for $250.

 

[What The Forest Taught Me]

EPIC

Hahaha

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

The PS4 wasn't made today tho.

 

[TheSpecialOne]

UC4 and HZD are beautiful games. I played the latter on an HDR display and it blew me away. But both of these games in motion running at 30fps give them a soft look due to the motion blur that's there to cover up how jerky 30 fps is. On pc these games could run native 4k at 60 fps, which would be incredible to see.

If I'm being honest, games like Shadow Warrior 2, Rise of The Tomb Raider, and TW3 at 4k/60 look better in motion than UC4 or HZD. Screenshots are one thing, but when you turn the camera the image just smears, which isn't the case for high fidelity PC games.

You're speaking to someone who used to game at 4k till I switched to 3440x1440p ultra wide. I haven't played shadow warrior but I've played the other 2 at 4k60 and wasn't remotely impressed. The witcher 3 is an average looking game with it's jello looking water, average texture work, poor fooliage and etc. Tomb raider just looks crossgen. Sorry but neither of those games are even in my list of best looking pc games.

 

[TetraGenesis]

i wish Sony start allowing VR games to be released exclusively on pro.
I think normal games can be released on ps4 since they only need to run at something like 15-20 fps (lol) and on a higher frame on pro, but VR games need to run at a high stable fps to work and avoid motion sickness.

Now this I agree with.

I know it would be a business and PR disaster for them, but Pro-exclusive VR would open a whole new world of games and ports.

But for right now, super sampling is already a huge boon for VR.

 

[Aenima]

Im playing Horizon Zero Dawn right now on a base PS4 and im in awe by the job Guerrilla did in an open world game, that i dont feel any need to rush for a next gen so soon.

This talk of "console" is holding a game back is nonsense unless your only objective is to achieve ultra realistic grafics for the game. Just this year i played Nier Automata, Persona 5 and Yakuza 0 they was all amazing games and grafically they are all / look cross gen PS3/ PS4 games.

 

[Lister]

There just isn't money to be made in PC exclusives, so you're not going to see that Crysis AAA money put into a PC exclusive anymore. The closest thing you're probably going to get is Star Citizen which looks absolutely insane (at least IMO).

https://fat.gfycat.com/ContentExcellentCommabutterfly.webm

(the bolded)

Come again?

There are a LOT of money making PC exclusives that would say otherwise. Some of them pretty darn AAA too. Even if you were excluding games like DOTA and League and WOW for some reason - some of the biggest game son the planet, you sitll have other big Pc exlcusives or once exclusives like Mine craft and Diablo, and other 3+ million sellers like Total War and Civ.

What there isn't is a multi billion dollar corporation willing to spend money on making a PC exclusive for shits and giggles. Third parties are going to want to maximize profits, and that means tapping as wide a market as possible.

Star Citizen not withstanding - though if anything shows that a AAA PC exclusive title could work, that certainly does.

It just can't be some stupid, on rails action adventure game with whack a mole third person shooter mechanics and juvenile writing. PC gamers aren't going to buy that.

 

[Iced Arcade]

Look what devs were able to put out on consoles with 512mb of ram last gen... I find it hard to believe this gen has been maxed out.

 

[Demoskinos]

Hey guys, they made DOOM run on PS4.

Not only did the make it run on PS4 it fucking runs at 60fps. Doom is like black magic. I still cannot believe they made that game look that good and run that well on a console.

 

[Netherscourge]

So, a 3.5-year-old console runs like 5-year-old PC.

Thanks for the update.

 

[sssstententen]

If PS4 is so dated and busted, why the hell do Uncharted and Horizon look better than 99% of PC exclusive games even put out by AAA's.

Give me a break. Sure they'd be a bit better but no one is going to pay $800-1000 for a cutting edge machine, thats not the point. And PC devs have yet to show any genuine graphical leap. Graphics have relatively plateau'd in my opinion. Its all about small gains and optimization now.

 

[NullPointer]

Not only did the make it run on PS4 it fucking runs at 60fps. Doom is like black magic. I still cannot believe they made that game look that good and run that well on a console.

And it controls like a dream, which is a little unexpected given the game's speed.

 

[LittleBigGamer]

I think its more an observation - like saying "we could have done more but we're limited by the base hardware" - which I think is a fair enough statement - but that said if they had more grunt, I wonder if they really use more. its all talk until you make it happen

But everything is limited by every current hardware. Even the best hardware available today for games is not the best that they can make.

Hypothetically they can design a 50.000 euros hardware in the size of a roomP) that could run games with real life quality graphics. And every hardware out there we can say that is really holding developers back.
Which is true but also stupid to say it, because gaming couldn't exist if hardware was not affordable for people to buy it.

That's why developers need a 400 euros hardware to exist and that's why the ''holding back'' thing is childish IMO.

 

[Shin]

He's stating the obvious, the gap might be closing a little bit between consoles and PC's.
Consoles will always be behind, simply because the generations last too long and consumers don't want to spend so much.

 

[Astral Dog]

When you have games like horizon and uncharted it makes me feel like why would you need more power? What held them back?

The Jaguar.🐆

 

[Lister]

If PS4 is so dated and busted, why the hell do Uncharted and Horizon look better than 99% of PC exclusive games even put out by AAA's.

Because PC exclusives tend to focus on gameplay, and replayability and mechanics and challenge, etc, etc.

Market forces. Building a graphical showpiece like Horizon is costly and the PC market would probably much prefer a game with narrative agency and more tactical considerations.

Sony can put a lot of money on the table just to say, hey look, we got this game that's on TV and youtube, etc and look at the graphics!!! And it's exclusively on our platform!

It has nothign to do with hardware. If they wanted to they could release the game on PC and it would look and run better there. and with more CPu time, could probably feature you know, actual AI.

 

[Kssio_Aug]

And here i thought you were going to post a good looking game. The witcher 3 doesn't even look better than for honor talk-less of uc4. This graphics hardon for the TW3 has got to stop. It's an average looking game that'll age very poorly.

Batman Arkham Knight looks better, AC Unity looks better, HZD looks better, Star Wars Battlefront looks better. I mean, even Crysis 3 looks better. You'd be hard pressed to find a big budget AAA game that doesn't looks better than TW3 especially on consoles.

The Witcher 3 on PC looks pretty amazing to me. I wholeheartedly disagree with you.

 

[Astral Dog]

Not only did the make it run on PS4 it fucking runs at 60fps. Doom is like black magic. I still cannot believe they made that game look that good and run that well on a console.

I love DOOM but the game is very limited on scope and not much variation on the environment art.

Its like an old school fps on steroids 😊

 

[jdstorm]

I mean, Zelda is also only available on an extremely limited supply new console and the wii u which was a failure. And sales don't define quality. And GTAV is hardly a new or cutting edge game either at this point

This. GTA5 Ran on the PS3 and X360 while Zelda BotW was built ground up for a more powerful system (The WiiU). GTA5 is a game that was designed to run on hardware that is a decade old.

If GTA6 was designed to run on a 2019 Rysen CPU clocked similarly to the jaguars in the PS4 it would be so far beyond what we currently see.

 

[Valonquar]

Games are usually developed with 5 year old gaming PCs in mind. Not everyone drops 1K on bleeding edge cards either.

 

[ReaperXL7]

(the bolded)

Come again?

There are a LOT of money making PC exclusives that would say otherwise. Some of them pretty darn AAA too.

What there isn't is a multi billion dollar corporation willing to spend money on making a PC exclusive for shits and giggles. Third parties are going to want to maximize profits, and that means tapping as wide a market as possible.

Star Citizen not withstanding - though if anything shows that a AAA PC exlcusive title can work that certainly does.

It just can't be some stupid, on rails aciton adventure game with whack a mole third person shooter mechanics and juvenile writing.

I bet many of those games can be run on hardware that's about as as old as the PS4 if they aren't on PS4 already. It's a Tough thing to predict how things go if high end PCs were the only option, even CDPR doesn't think they could have made Witcher 3 if it hadnt been for the cash flow provided by the console versions

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...he-witcher-3-graphics-downgrade-issue-head-on

"If the consoles are not involved there is no Witcher 3 as it is," answers Marcin Iwinski, definitively. "We can lay it out that simply. We just cannot afford it, because consoles allow us to go higher in terms of the possible or achievable sales; have a higher budget for the game, and invest it all into developing this huge, gigantic world.

It's all fun and games to go to war for PC because in theory consoles do hold games back because of lower specs, however I also think that if developers only made games for the types of PCs that would eliminate those restrictions then we wouldn't see very many AAA games anymore.

To my knowledge the real AAA PC exclusive success stories are few and far between and are only enjoyed by a handful of devs with many years of PC exclusive development like Blizzard. I'm sure PC exclusives that target the top tier of PCs could make some money, but not enough to sustain an industry as big as games have become.

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

I'll say this....Some devs seem to think that more power solves everything and I feel like his quote explains that. But how many times have we seen that power isn't everything and optimization is the REAL issue? That's what kind of gets me about this quote. However, I mean....the devs can still make PC exclusive games if they feel that way but I mean, I'm sure he understands that while the PC community is large, more dollars typically come from the Console space than there...which makes the sacrifice easier to swallow....

...even though that's not guaranteed for everyone

 

[Tagyhag]

(the bolded)

Come again?

There are a LOT of money making PC exclusives that would say otherwise. Some of them pretty darn AAA too. Even if you were excluding games like DOTA and League and WOW for some reason - some of the biggest game son the planet, you sitll have other big Pc exlcusives or once exclusives like Mine craft and Diablo, and other 3+ million sellers like Total War and Civ.

What there isn't is a multi billion dollar corporation willing to spend money on making a PC exclusive for shits and giggles. Third parties are going to want to maximize profits, and that means tapping as wide a market as possible.

Star Citizen not withstanding - though if anything shows that a AAA PC exclusive title could work, that certainly does.

It just can't be some stupid, on rails action adventure game with whack a mole third person shooter mechanics and juvenile writing. PC gamers aren't going to buy that.

There is money to be made sure, but not every game out there could survive on the PC by itself.

Like Reaper posted, there is only a certain amount of money. Witcher 3 wouldn't have made its budget if it was PC-only, simple as that.

 

[jdmonmou]

If developers feel so strongly about the lack of power in consoles then why don't they just release a PC exclusive? Or put their vision on PC and scale back for consoles? Saying the PS4 is holding developers back is hyperbole.

 

[Lister]

I bet many of those games can be run on hardware that's about as as old as the PS4 if they aren't on PS4 already. It's a Tough thing to predict how things go if high end PCs were the only option, even CDPR doesn't think they could have made Witcher 3 if it hadnt been for the cash flow provided by the console versions

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...he-witcher-3-graphics-downgrade-issue-head-on



It's all fun and games to go to war for PC because in theory consoles do hold games back because of lower specs, however I also think that if developers only made games for the types of PCs that would eliminate those restrictions then we wouldn't see very many AAA games anymore.

To my knowledge the real AAA PC exclusive success stories are few and far between and are only enjoyed by a handful of devs with many years of PC exclusive development like Blizzard. I'm sure PC exclusives that target the top tier of PCs could make some money, but not enough to sustain an industry as big as games have become.

Uhm.... yes, that's what I said.

The reverse in fact is almost certainly true as well, something lost on most apparently. They needed to put the game on BOTH PC and consoles in order to maximize their return on investment.

For a platform that some of you insist makes so much money for developers, there sure seems to be precious few exclusives on it compared to PC. You would think the opposite would be true, but for the most part, the only exclusives are directly financed by the console manufacturers.

 

[KingBroly]

I love DOOM but the game is very limited on scope and not much variation on the environment art.

Its like an old school fps on steroids 😊

So was Wolfenstein the New Order. And they both showed that there's a desire for those types of games. Not everything needs to be super linear and overly cinematic or open world or multiplayer-heavy with loot crates. There's more variety developers COULD be making and selling if they recognized people liked it enough for it to be made.

 

[III-V]

Im playing Horizon Zero Dawn right now on a base PS4 and im in awe by the job Guerrilla did in an open world game, that i dont feel any need to rush for a next gen so soon.

This talk of "console" is holding a game back is nonsense unless your only objective is to achieve ultra realistic grafics for the game. Just this year i played Nier Automata, Persona 5 and Yakuza 0 they was all amazing games and grafically they are all / look cross gen PS3/ PS4 games.

yes, this is essentially a load of BS. HZD and UC4 among others are achievements, fun, and gorgeous to boot.

 

[jdstorm]

yes, this is essentially a load of BS. HZD and UC4 among others are achievements, fun, and gorgeous to boot.

Tell that to Just Cause 3, Mirrors Edge Catalyst and Assasins Creed Unity. Those games are all over a year old, and all were significantly held back by the jaguars.

 

[jdmonmou]

Tell that to Just Cause 3, Mirrors Edge Catalyst and Assasins Creed Unity. Those games are all over a year old, and all were significantly held back by the jaguars.

Those were mediocre games anyway. Extra power wouldn't have helped.

 

[Lister]

Those were mediocre games anyway. Extra power wouldn't have helped.

Well regardles sof what you may think about them I think the issue was clear, these games attmpted much more crowded, realisitc worlds. Uncharted and Horizon just didn't feature that level of density in terms of other AI.

 

[KageMaru]

When you have games like horizon and uncharted it makes me feel like why would you need more power? What held them back?

Ask yourself this, does this indie studio have the resources and budget of a AAA game while only needing to worry about two very similar systems?

This ''holding back'' thing no.

childish comment.

No it's not. All of the time and money needed to get the base consoles up to an acceptable level of performance and/or fidelity could have been used elsewhere in the game to further improve the game. If the studio would be given the same budget but only had to port to the Pro and X consoles, there's a good chance the game could have had visual or gameplay improvements.

 

[Kyzer]

Do these games not look (a lot) better on PS4 Pro?

...so its not holding them back?

 

[jdstorm]

Those were mediocre games anyway. Extra power wouldn't have helped.

That is blatantly untrue. Especially for Mirrors Edge which couldnt realise its vision of an Open World Mirrors Edge and had to compromise its core design to hide loading screens. Just Cause 3 barely runs on a base PS4 and No Assasins Creed since Unity has aimed for the same level of visual fidelity.

These are 3 games that came out early in this gen and were limited by the CPU's in the base PS4. Devs just stopped targeting things that they couldn't achieve. If they had more CPU power they would target more interesting things.

 

[ArtHands]

If developers feel so strongly about the lack of power in consoles then why don't they just release a PC exclusive? Or put their vision on PC and scale back for consoles? Saying the PS4 is holding developers back is hyperbole.

There are countless developers already doing so (release PC exclusives).

This is coming from a dev who havent decided to do so yet.

 

[Infinite Xero]

There are countless developers already doing so (release PC exclusives).

This is coming from a dev who havent decided to do so yet.

I doubt there are many (if any) devs who are releasing exclusively on PC because of it's power.

 

[TirMcGrey]

Whomever wrote this article has the mental capacity of a 12 year old. The way the grammar and sentences run off / take a good 2nd look to figure out their point doesn't help.

 

[RedSwirl]

I said at the tail end of last gen you started to see multiplat games target gaming PCs first which is how you got Battlefield 3, Witcher 2, and Crysis 2. There's actually already an advantage of a game that basically did the same for current-gen: Assassin's Creed Unity. Game still looks amazing but ran like crap on consoles when it first came out. It took PS4 Pro boost mode to make it more playable on console.

There just isn't money to be made in PC exclusives, so you're not going to see that Crysis AAA money put into a PC exclusive anymore. The closest thing you're probably going to get is Star Citizen which looks absolutely insane (at least IMO).

https://fat.gfycat.com/ContentExcellentCommabutterfly.webm

What video is that first gif from?

Every argument with console power boils down to, "I want top-end PC power, but at half the price." It isn't going to happen. When you start designing a console two years beforehand, there are thousands of things to take into account.
Most people seem to think they can throw stuff together and boom!, an affordable yet powerful console appears. Look at all the "lol no" quotes for the XBONEX. 500 for a pretty robust console power-wise. You HAVE to have trade-offs somewhere.

Yeah this is pretty much it here.

 

[TheSpecialOne]

Well regardles sof what you may think about them I think the issue was clear, these games attmpted much more crowded, realisitc worlds. Uncharted and Horizon just didn't feature that level of density in terms of other AI.

None of it actually impacted the gameplay for the better. I played just cause 3 and unity on pc, both games still sucked at 60fps. Oh and mirrors edge catalyst wasn't held back by hardware, it was held back by bad game design. I suppose the same is true for you other 2 examples. Try again.

 

[MazeHaze]

None of it actually impacted the gameplay for the better. I played just cause 3 and unity on pc, both games still sucked at 60fps. Oh and mirrors edge catalyst wasn't held back by hardware, it was held back by bad game design. I suppose the same is true for you other 2 examples. Try again.

Man, for somebody with a sweet gaming PC, it's weird how you have such a hostile tone when trying to defend HZD and UC4 as the best looking, best playing games ever.

 

[Lister]

Man, for somebody with a sweet gaming PC, it's weird how you have such a hostile tone when trying to defend HZD and UC4 as the best looking, best playing games ever.

Everyone on GAF has a 1080ti and water cooled i7.... but prefers to play on their PS4.

Get with the program!

 

[jdmonmou]

There are countless developers already doing so (release PC exclusives).

This is coming from a dev who havent decided to do so yet.

Can you name a few? I'm not talking about indie devs. Which devs released a truly cutting edge game too powerful for consoles exclusively for PC? I can't remember the last time that happened since EA/Crytek released the first Crysis.