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[H_Prestige]

The PS4's hardware will be able to handle ps2 software emulation, its wether sony will support it or not now they know HD classics = easy money

I'm curious, what has generated more money for Sony and third parties, psone classics or ps2 HD remasters? I'm guessing the former.

 

[Sid]

The fact it's potentially codenamed 'Liverpool' is a bit ironic, eh?

Why?

 

[StuBurns]

Why?

Because a Sony studio at Liverpool just died.

Guys, does anyone have a pretty simple comparison of the latest rumored specs of this and Durango, how they compare etc?

 

[Sid]

Because a Sony studio at Liverpool just died.

Guys, does anyone have a pretty simple comparison of the latest rumored specs of this and Durango, how they compare etc?

Ps4 dead before arrival,my gawhd!

 

[Emitan]

The fact it's potentially codenamed 'Liverpool' is a bit ironic, eh?

Rabid Nintendo fanboys have told me that the PS4 will never be released. Maybe Sony accidentally killed Studio Liverpool instead of the PS4?

 

[itsgreen]

Rabid Nintendo fanboys have told me that the PS4 will never be released. Maybe Sony accidentally killed Studio Liverpool instead of the PS4?

lol, I can imagine a board meeting "Yes, let's just cancel Liverpool"

 

[Spinluck]

I guess it will be for the OS & other things , just like the 4GB of flash is used in the PS Vita.

Yesss.. I'd love for the OS, small apps, and game saves to be on flash. So it can run nice and smoove. But it'll probably just be the OS.

Btw, excuse me for my ignorance GAF, but does Jeff Rigby know something we don't? Or is he just super knowledgeable about tech? And did he know something about the new "rumored" PS3 model before it was leaked? Thanks, I appreciate the answers, whether they're from GAF or Jeff himself, lol.

 

[DeanoCalver]

Btw, excuse me for my ignorance GAF, but does Jeff Rigby know something we don't? Or is he just super knowledgeable about tech?

He's just guessing, badly imho

Deano

 

[Sid]

He's just guessing, badly imho

Deano

He has guessed a lot of stuff all of which is wrong?

 

[Rolf NB]

He has guessed a lot of stuff all of which is wrong?

A broken clock is right twice a day.

 

[Sid]

A broken clock is right twice a day.

So you have insider info regarding ps4?

 

[RoboPlato]

Also when I was quoted it left out this:


The description of the 2.5D/3D stacking above would be in the PS4 as most of us have agreed based on the Sony CTO comments. To get the 2.5/3D stacking it will be a 2014 design which is the first AMD SoC that allows third party IP in the SoC which makes it a lock for a game console SoC that has Sony IP and is a custom design differing from the PC version.

Up until the 2014 AMD SoCs with stacking, it's a one silicon chip Fusion of CPU and GPU with only AMD designs. With 2.5D/3D other companies CPUs, FPGA, DSPs and more can be in the SoC and it can be a custom design.

Jaguar from multiple "leaks"
GCN GPU but with 2014 design it could and most likely will be a 8000 series that is 1.2 times as efficient as a 7000 series.

FPGA Augmented ASICs is interesting but there is no support for this other than the Sony CTO saying programmable arrays and Charlie at SimiAccurate interpreting that to mean FPGA. FPGA in addition to a GPU is currently how more efficient Ray tracing is accomplished. ASIC is an Application Specific Integrated Circuit and a GPU can be called a ASIC.

Do we know how late in 2014 those SoC's are expected?

 

[Rolf NB]

So you have insider info regarding ps4?

I have insider info regarding Jeff Rigby's research methodology.

 

[slider]

He has guessed a lot of stuff all of which is wrong?

FWIW, I remember Deano from B3D (I'm assuming no one would be impersonating him!); he used to work for Sony... some studio or other. I want to say Cambridge but I'm not sure. Anyway, he left for another employer so, afaik, isn't at Sony anymore but I'm sure he's still ahead of random internet folk (no offense to anyone least of all jeff_rigby).

Cheers.

EDIT: D'oh, Splash Damage.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

FWIW, I remember Deano from B3D (I'm assuming no one would be impersonating him!); he used to work for Sony... some studio or other. I want to say Cambridge but I'm not sure. Anyway, he left for another employer so, afaik, isn't at Sony anymore but I'm sure that puts him ahead of random internet folk (no offense to anyone least of all jeff_rigby).

Cheers.

Programmer on Heavenly Sword I think.

 

[slider]

Programmer on Heavenly Sword I think.

Thanks dude. When you get to my age everything merges into one.

 

[RoboPlato]

So you have insider info regarding ps4?

It's just an expression. Some stuff Rigby says will probably turn out to be true but a lot of it won't. The stuff that winds up being true also isn't proof that he knows everything. Still, I enjoy his posts. Fuels a lot of speculation and I've learned a lot about tech through them.

 

[Sid]

It's just an expression. Some stuff Rigby says will probably turn out to be true but a lot of it won't. The stuff that winds up being true also isn't proof that he knows everything. Still, I enjoy his posts. Fuels a lot of speculation and I've learned a lot about tech through them.

I agree

 

[yurinka]

The fact it's potentially codenamed 'Liverpool' is a bit ironic, eh?

I thnk they knew it since some time ago and it's some kind of tribute.

 

[coldfoot]

I would feel a lot better if Sony worked on the Hardware and outsourced the software/OS side to Google. Having Android on the PS4 would solve all the problems that we have today with the PS3 OS. I'm talking about similar to what Amazon did with the Kindle.

 

[onQ123]

I would feel a lot better if Sony worked on the Hardware and outsourced the software/OS side to Google. Having Android on the PS4 would solve all the problems that we have today with the PS3 OS. I'm talking about similar to what Amazon did with the Kindle.

The only problem with that is the fact that Sony would be losing money on hardware while google getting paid off the software.

 

[spwolf]

I would feel a lot better if Sony worked on the Hardware and outsourced the software/OS side to Google. Having Android on the PS4 would solve all the problems that we have today with the PS3 OS. I'm talking about similar to what Amazon did with the Kindle.

all of your problems with PS3 software have nothing to do with software but with low amount of RAM... and looking at how inefficient Android is with RAM, i doubt you want that.

 

[bigtroyjon]

I would feel a lot better if Sony worked on the Hardware and outsourced the software/OS side to Google. Having Android on the PS4 would solve all the problems that we have today with the PS3 OS. I'm talking about similar to what Amazon did with the Kindle.

Would be pretty much impossible for them to compete with Microsoft if they were paying licensing fees to MS for every PS4 sold.

 

[coldfoot]

all of your problems with PS3 software have nothing to do with software but with low amount of RAM... and looking at how inefficient Android is with RAM, i doubt you want that.

I guess the low memory is responsible for having full updates instead of incremential ones?
Or how about the fact that you have to press a button to move a download to the background instead of the PS3 doing it for me automatically?
How about the inability to download updates in the background?
How about that terrible messaging system where your messages and responses go on different inboxes? Because that has to be done like that due to low memory?

PS3 OS, while the XMB is nice and intuitive, has some really badly designed sections.

 

[coldfoot]

Would be pretty much impossible for them to compete with Microsoft if they were paying licensing fees to MS for every PS4 sold.

MS only gets royalties from about 50-70% of Android devices, and those patents will expire by the time, or shortly after the PS4 is released.

 

[somuchwater]

ER wasn't dead end technology, the VUs created a foundation which CELL's SPEs expanded on massively.

And I still don't think CELL is dead end tech either. They might have mothballed it, but that doesn't stop it being a good solution for a gaming console. Not ideal for general purpose computing, but you could fit a ton of SPEs on a modern process chip. Isn't larrabee similar to what cell was doing?

Alternatively, if GPGPU does effectively the same thing, you could argue for a decent quad core CPU + GPGPU on the same die, with the GPGPU handling physics and other systems that are suited, the CPU doing housekeeping and more general tasks, and then a nice discrete GPU for rendering

I'm not a tech person, but based on previous threads, the argument has been that nothing the Cell.can do is particularly with the investment vs just using of the shelf parts. As far as I understand, you'd have to sink a lot of money into building a CPU that'd only give you marginal benefits - if any at all - over something that costs way less.

 

[Sid]

I'm not a tech person, but based on previous threads, the argument has been that nothing the Cell.can do is particularly with the investment vs just using of the shelf parts. As far as I understand, you'd have to sink a lot of money into building a CPU that'd only give you marginal benefits - if any at all - over something that costs way less.

Using cell not as the main cpu in ps4 but to provide b/c

 

[KageMaru]

ER wasn't dead end technology, the VUs created a foundation which CELL's SPEs expanded on massively.

And I still don't think CELL is dead end tech either. They might have mothballed it, but that doesn't stop it being a good solution for a gaming console. Not ideal for general purpose computing, but you could fit a ton of SPEs on a modern process chip. Isn't larrabee similar to what cell was doing?

Alternatively, if GPGPU does effectively the same thing, you could argue for a decent quad core CPU + GPGPU on the same die, with the GPGPU handling physics and other systems that are suited, the CPU doing housekeeping and more general tasks, and then a nice discrete GPU for rendering

It's true Cell would still be a decent chip in a next gen system. Problem is it straddles the line between a cpu and gpu but doesn't always excel in either direction. There is a thread at B3D titled "Was Cell any good?" I suggest anyone looking for insight on the chip, to read that thread. Some great posts by some devs.

Btw, excuse me for my ignorance GAF, but does Jeff Rigby know something we don't? Or is he just super knowledgeable about tech?

Neither. He searches the net for rumors and patents and creates walls of text with bolded and colored lines, but he's rarely able to apply this info logically.

IMHO it's a joke so much of GAF follows him like they do.

I have insider info regarding Jeff Rigby's research methodology.

lmao

 

[onQ123]

Well until we get solid facts all we can do is research & speculate with the info that we do have, so I don't see why anyone here would have a problem with what Jeff is doing.

 

[injurai]

The fact it's potentially codenamed 'Liverpool' is a bit ironic, eh?

Ps4 dead before arrival,my gawhd!

Sony is just skipping next-gen.

 

[onQ123]

Sony is just skipping next-gen.

Not possible because next-gen doesn't start until Sony say so.

 

[spwolf]

I guess the low memory is responsible for having full updates instead of incremential ones?
Or how about the fact that you have to press a button to move a download to the background instead of the PS3 doing it for me automatically?
How about the inability to download updates in the background?
How about that terrible messaging system where your messages and responses go on different inboxes? Because that has to be done like that due to low memory?

PS3 OS, while the XMB is nice and intuitive, has some really badly designed sections.

you do realize how Android is inefficient? It uses 150 MB ram more than PS3 OS. Games are running under VM, so it is very slow with no direct access to hardware.

Using Android would just make it all suck a lot more and games would perform worse than on competition.

 

[Tripolygon]

WTF did Jeff ever do to any of you, constantly bickering over anything he posts. Do your own research and find rumors and patents, last I checked the title of this thread is PS4 Rumors. I sense some bitterness towards Jeff from some people for no reason, every freaking thread Jeff's in the same people (you know who you are) crawl out of the wood works to claim how supposedly illogical and crazy Jeff is. (time to ban some people gaf, its getting old)

 

[thuway]

The only problem with that is the fact that Sony would be losing money on hardware while google getting paid off the software.

With all the help Sony is offering google by offering Google TV, adding to the AOSP, and shoehorning Android into the PlayStation Suite- I think Google and Sony could have a loving relationship.

 

[SniperHunter]

there haven't been any PS4 leaks in a while. I am guessing Sony ninjas sealed the leak or PS4 got delayed to 2014, since Sony keeps announcing PS3 games one after another.

 

[bgassassin]

haha...yea i forgot about that. so what do you think will be the final spec, just guess?

I'm personally not expecting any radical changes from the fundamental target specs. If the Jaguar rumors are true, then I suspect Sony went that route to reduce heat and cost further.

 

[Sid]

I'm personally not expecting any radical changes from the fundamental target specs. If the Jaguar rumors are true, then I suspect Sony went that route to reduce heat and cost further.

How much RAM amount have you heard?

 

[Giant Panda]

there haven't been any PS4 leaks in a while. I am guessing Sony ninjas sealed the leak or PS4 got delayed to 2014, since Sony keeps announcing PS3 games one after another.

I am starting to worry PS4 got moved to 2014 as well which worries me. Missing holiday 2013 seems like a huge mistake and would give too much time to MS and Nintendo to capture the momentum.

 

[bgassassin]

How much RAM amount have you heard?

2GB of GDDR5. 4GB if the densities increase. They could invest in creating larger density GDDR5 on their own IMO.

 

[Sid]

2GB of GDDR5. 4GB if the densities increase. They could invest in creating larger density GDDR5 on their own IMO.

Wow so 4gb gddr5 is possible,so ultimately we are looking at a major step up from the ps3 all things considered?

 

[bgassassin]

Wow so 4gb gddr5 is possible,so ultimately we are looking at a major step up from the ps3 all things considered?

Copying and pasting what I said day or two ago:

I think PS4 is shaping up to be a very good balance of cost and power. And their cost should scale really well this time making it easier to profit off of the hardware early.

 

[injurai]

Not possible because next-gen doesn't start until Sony say so.

Haha, true true.

 

[SRG01]

you do realize how Android is inefficient? It uses 150 MB ram more than PS3 OS. Games are running under VM, so it is very slow with no direct access to hardware.

Using Android would just make it all suck a lot more and games would perform worse than on competition.

Very much so. The VM component of Android is necessary to support different hardware platforms. It isn't necessary for a console, nor would it be a wise decision.

Then again, there are ways to get direct hardware access using OpenGL and other methods, but they're rarely used.

 

[SniperHunter]

I am starting to worry PS4 got moved to 2014 as well which worries me.

yea that would suck big time.

 

[Just Lazy]

I can't see Sony launching much later than MS. If MS launch the nextbox in Q4 2013 as rumoured Sony will be aiming to launch late 2013 as well. Would be madness from Sony to allow MS a free run at the xmas trade.

 

[Raoh]

I am starting to worry PS4 got moved to 2014 as well which worries me. Missing holiday 2013 seems like a huge mistake and would give too much time to MS and Nintendo to capture the momentum.

I can't see Sony launching much later than MS. If MS launch the nextbox in Q4 2013 as rumoured Sony will be aiming to launch late 2013 as well. Would be madness from Sony to allow MS a free run at the xmas trade.

I really dont' think launching before or at the same time as ms matters. Their PS4 launch hust has to be successful.

If xbox launched after sony it wouldn't matter it would just have to be a good launch and good software/hardware.

The core fans of each will buy regardless of when. The rest just need to see a successful launch to follow. Lets face it consumers aren't as bright as we give them credit for.

More than the hardware/lineup/price sony's biggest battle isn't MS but the Pro MS/Anti Sony Media/Press/Blogs. Even with successful hardware the sony hate train will be on time and full of passengers.

 

[Mindlog]

More than the hardware/lineup/price sony's biggest battle isn't MS but the Pro MS/Anti Sony Media/Press/Blogs. Even with successful hardware the sony hate train will be on time and full of passengers.

Hogwash.

2GB of GDDR5. 4GB if the densities increase. They could invest in creating larger density GDDR5 on their own IMO.

What's the pessimistic timetable on that kind of density?

 

[Giant Panda]

I really dont' think launching before or at the same time as ms matters. Their PS4 launch hust has to be successful.

If xbox launched after sony it wouldn't matter it would just have to be a good launch and good software/hardware.

The core fans of each will buy regardless of when. The rest just need to see a successful launch to follow. Lets face it consumers aren't as bright as we give them credit for.

More than the hardware/lineup/price sony's biggest battle isn't MS but the Pro MS/Anti Sony Media/Press/Blogs. Even with successful hardware the sony hate train will be on time and full of passengers.

Well yes, a successful launch matters more than launching at the same time as MS, but only if the gap between launch dates isn't too big. Q1 or Q2 2014 wouldn't be too bad. Q3 would be bad.

 

[bgassassin]

What's the pessimistic timetable on that kind of density?

Honestly I don't think there is a (public) timetable for something like that.

 

[Raoh]

Well yes, a successful launch matters more than launching at the same time as MS, but only if the gap between launch dates isn't too big. Q1 or Q2 2014 wouldn't be too bad. Q3 would be bad.

I like a spring release for PS4. Gives time for bundles and price adjustments come xmas. Also SOny tends to be more of an adult device. A release around tax return time is more appealing to me than an xmas release time when I have to think of others instead of myself.