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[LordRaptor]

Not really. The Win32 API is an utter mess representing the accumulation of of 20+ years of functions, many of which are obselete or needlessly complex. Replacing that with a more rational API is a good idea.

I mean.... it clearly is highly debatable, because a page of debate just emanated from it.

If you want to argue that Win32 is soooooo broken we gotta get rid of it because its so filled with cruft from 20 years of improvements and real world field testing, my response is; so what?
Are desktop PCs so limited in CPU cycles, memory and storage space that what amounts to - at absolute hypothetical worst - a few hundred K of unnecessary includes going to 'break the bank' for anyone developing for Windows?
Are people developing for embedded devices where this might be an issue ever going to be buying Windows licences for their Smart Thermostats / Smart Fridges / Smart Televisions on a per unit basis in a world where Linux exists?

The problem with arguing for UWA - even at a conceptual level - is that it takes for granted the argument that Win32 is so busted and broke ass that literally anything would be an improvement, no matter how less functional that replacement might be, which is clearly operating under a logical fallacy that because Win32 is not perfect that it is irredeemably unfit for use, despite abundant real world evidence that - in fact - Win32 is fine.
Not perfect, but fine.

In much the same way you can point at Democracy as being broken, to paraphrase Churchill, its still better than any existing alternative.

 

[Trup1aya]

I mean.... it clearly is highly debatable, because a page of debate just emanated from it.

If you want to argue that Win32 is soooooo broken we gotta get rid of it because its so filled with cruft from 20 years of improvements and real world field testing, my response is; so what?
Are desktop PCs so limited in CPU cycles, memory and storage space that what amounts to - at absolute hypothetical worst - a few hundred K of unnecessary includes going to 'break the bank' for anyone developing for Windows?
Are people developing for embedded devices where this might be an issue ever going to be buying Windows licences for their Smart Thermostats / Smart Fridges / Smart Televisions on a per unit basis in a world where Linux exists?

The problem with arguing for UWA - even at a conceptual level - is that it takes for granted the argument that Win32 is so busted and broke ass that literally anything would be an improvement, no matter how less functional that replacement might be, which is clearly operating under a logical fallacy that because Win32 is not perfect that it is irredeemably unfit for use, despite abundant real world evidence that - in fact - Win32 is fine.
Not perfect, but fine.

In much the same way you can point at Democracy as being broken, to paraphrase Churchill, its still better than any existing alternative.

They shouldn't get rid of Win32. But they shouldn't nix UWP either. The vast majority of applications in existance aren't depreciated or are even enhanced by UWP. And with the exception of modding, there's no reason that UWP can't be improved to deliver a gaming experience that people will generally find acceptable.

But devs/publishers should always have the option to distribute their games as Win32. There's no reason the two can't do exist, even if MS only sells UWA in their 1st party store.

PS, aren't the win10 licenses free in a lot of the embedded device cases you mentioned? Legitamate question, I feel like I read that somewhere.

 

[michaelius]

Yeah it's odd UWP actually has a defense force, there is really no redeeming qualities

I've checked posting history of some of them and it was

xbox
xbox
halo
halo
off-topic
xbox
....

then 60+ posts in each thread about UWP, Microsoft , etc

So I guess UWP makes xbox fans really enthusiastic

 

[LordRaptor]

PS, aren't the win10 licenses free in a lot of the embedded device cases you mentioned? Legitamate question, I feel like I read that somewhere.

I can't definitively state as an absolute truth that there are no manufacturers of embedded systems using Windows on those devices, but AFAIK windows on embedded devices hasn't been a thing since WinCE, because why would it be?
If your business is primarily physical manufacturing, there are so many more reasons to use a free linux kernel tailored specifically to the operating specifications of your hardware than to buy a less performant generic 'does everything' solution from MS.

 

[madmackem]

I've checked posting history of some of them and it was

xbox
xbox
halo
halo
off-topic
xbox
....

then 60+ posts in each thread about UWP, Microsoft , etc

So I guess UWP makes xbox fans really enthusiastic

It does feel some are taking up defence of uwp because it's ms and Xbox relegated without thinking.

 

[Scaramanger]

Has there been any word from Remedy since the digital foundry article? I would buy this (again, I refunded original purchase) in a heartbeat if they can fix the 5/6ths frame rate issue

 

[Wowfunhappy]

UWP is one of the reasons that this game plays like shit now, so...

Read the series of posts you're responding to. We don't know that.

 

[texhnolyze]

Has there been any word from Remedy since the digital foundry article? I would buy this (again, I refunded original purchase) in a heartbeat if they can fix the 5/6ths frame rate issue

No, their last 'real/unreal issues' comment was just before the DF article up.

 

[DeepEnigma]

He's defending MS and by implication their shitty design decisions regarding UWP. I think it's more sad that folks defend shitty design decisions as I recall a few folks pre-release were doing. So many benefits to UWP hmm.. wait for Build?

Wait for the next //build/.

 

[Scaramanger]

No, their last 'real/unreal issues' comment was just before the DF article up.

Would it be so hard for them eat a little humble pie and respond to the community in a more positive way? Maybe I take it back about re-purchasing........

 

[nynt9]

Read the series of posts you're responding to. We don't know that.

Well, it is a reason why it plays like shit because we can't use external tools to cap the frame rate which is one of the main issues. So inadvertently it is responsible.

 

[Trup1aya]

Well, it is a reason why it plays like shit because we can't use external tools to cap the frame rate which is one of the main issues. So inadvertently it is responsible.

Rather, the reason you feel the need to use external tools is because it plays like shit.

UWP isnt causing the game to play like shit. It's preventing you from fixing it.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

I mean.... it clearly is highly debatable, because a page of debate just emanated from it.

If you want to argue that Win32 is soooooo broken we gotta get rid of it because its so filled with cruft from 20 years of improvements and real world field testing, my response is; so what?
Are desktop PCs so limited in CPU cycles, memory and storage space that what amounts to - at absolute hypothetical worst - a few hundred K of unnecessary includes going to 'break the bank' for anyone developing for Windows?
Are people developing for embedded devices where this might be an issue ever going to be buying Windows licences for their Smart Thermostats / Smart Fridges / Smart Televisions on a per unit basis in a world where Linux exists?

The problem with arguing for UWA - even at a conceptual level - is that it takes for granted the argument that Win32 is so busted and broke ass that literally anything would be an improvement, no matter how less functional that replacement might be, which is clearly operating under a logical fallacy that because Win32 is not perfect that it is irredeemably unfit for use, despite abundant real world evidence that - in fact - Win32 is fine.
Not perfect, but fine.

In much the same way you can point at Democracy as being broken, to paraphrase Churchill, its still better than any existing alternative.

Like I've said before, it should be great for us and devs to get the filet mignon without the deuce they've shat on it of blackboxing it, but said deuce was on from the beginning as if the recipe was percieved as incomplete without it by its chefs...

 

[CosmicQueso]

So how y'all liking your codes, those who bought the digital Xbox One version? Man, what a great offer, huh?

 

[joeygreco1985]

So how y'all liking your codes, those who bought the digital Xbox One version? Man, what a great offer, huh?

What's up with that? The ad said the codes would come release week right?

 

[3rdamention]

What's up with that? The ad said the codes would come release week right?

I think the codes will be released "by the 15th."

 

[MurfHey]

Yeah, it's a bit of a shitshow.

Still hoping to try it myself if I can nab a cheap code.

its on sale on amazon for 47.99 right now.

they are price-matching walmarts deal! so either order it on Amazon or go into Walmart and get it for 47.99 today!

(If youre from NA)

 

[Wowfunhappy]

Rather, the reason you feel the need to use external tools is because it plays like shit.

And I'll just add, the reason I think this distinction is important is because PC gamers shouldn't have to resort to using external programs to fix glaring and immediately noticeable issues like Quantum Break's frame pacing.

Having the ability to fix something certainly improves the situation a great deal, but the fact that we have to constantly rely on these tools is completely ridiculous.

 

[chromatic9]

Crapgamer had nuttin to worry about. I'd consider this only playable on Xbox One. MS should add that to the box.

Would it be so hard for them eat a little humble pie and respond to the community in a more positive way? Maybe I take it back about re-purchasing........

I'd wait a few days yet. Also there's a more indepth article to follow. I'm with you though and want to see Remedy acknowledge the basic stuff wrong with the game and the DF article/video is a good round up.

 

[prag16]

I'd consider this only playable on Xbox One. MS should add that to the box.

Who said there's no hyperbole in this thread.

 

[tuna_love]

has anyone got a refund on pc version? ms support refuses to acknowledge there is an issue with the game, said there is only one other case and its under review

 

[theultimo]

has anyone got a refund on pc version? ms support refuses to acknowledge there is an issue with the game, said there is only one other case and its under review

Plenty have, you have to do it through live chains or call Microsoft

 

[tuna_love]

Plenty have, you have to do it through live chains or call Microsoft

cheers!

 

[Weevilone]

You mean the Xbox One version you ordered isn't working? Not sure I understand this. Why would you buy the Xbox one version if you wanted the PC. Just buy the PC. If you wanted both, you have the xbox one version working and the PC code will come.

For the same money, why not get both and have options? I'd prefer to play it on PC if it plays well, and perhaps I was silly to think the code would be sent in a timely fashion. Maybe there was some fine print that I did not see.

And it's a strange circumstance, but the TV for my gaming setup began to experience issues since I preordered it, so right now there's an unforeseen obstacle on the Xbox front.

Edit: I know it's tough to read some things on the internet correctly, but I was also just kind of making fun of myself for giving a shit about the code.. since I really don't want to use the Windows 10 store, and the port is by most accounts not good anyways.

 

[Dinky Dino]

So recapping, the fact that they don't even want to allow options for film grain is terrible. Even rise of the tomb raider broke down the post processing effects into separate category to give us options. I get the feeling they just don't want to bother making it render normally for pc since they just built it around the xbox one limitations and didn't plan on much more. Either because MS didn't pay them enough to port it or they just don't want to bother with the work.

 

[High Fry Frow]

I'm pinching myself to make sure I'm not dreaming...Remedy is telling their PC gamers that film grain is a strict stylistic choice, so essential that disabling it would lessen their vision.

Film grain looks terrible. It always looks terrible. That's such a cop-out explanation. I have a real hard time believing the developers are so adamant about film grain, and bad film grain at that, they'd keep it mandatory no matter if it disappointed some people. Rather, I believe that just don't give a fuck about the PC version.

 

[Dinky Dino]

I'm pinching myself to make sure I'm not dreaming...Remedy is telling their PC gamers that film grain is a strict stylistic choice, so essential that disabling it would lessen their vision.

Film grain looks terrible. It always looks terrible. That's such a cop-out explanation. I have a real hard time believing the developers are so adamant about film grain, and bad film grain at that, they'd keep it mandatory no matter if it disappointed some people. Rather, I believe that just don't give a fuck about the PC version.

Yes but it hides flaws and imperfections just like CA does so it's ideal for a console version with limited graphical options and the pc version looks like a 1:1. They admitted they just don't want to bother lifting a finger for any graphical options and will defer to the stylistic choice excuse. They are also pointing fingers at MS constantly with other issues. I really feel like they just don't care either because they just weren't paid or pushed enough to do a proper pc port judging by the tone of their comments. Quantum Break is MS's IP in the end so it's easier just not to care once the job is done and you were paid for it. Course these are just my views and I have no evidence saying it's true.

 

[plagiarize]

I'm pinching myself to make sure I'm not dreaming...Remedy is telling their PC gamers that film grain is a strict stylistic choice, so essential that disabling it would lessen their vision.

Film grain looks terrible. It always looks terrible. That's such a cop-out explanation. I have a real hard time believing the developers are so adamant about film grain, and bad film grain at that, they'd keep it mandatory no matter if it disappointed some people. Rather, I believe that just don't give a fuck about the PC version.

If you could disable film grain right now, it would only make the game look even worse, since the film grain at least is done at native resolution and gives an illusion of detail.

 

[justgames7604]

Anyone know when a patch is coming, if at all? Been quite a while now. Pretty dissapointing.

 

[BHK3]

So recapping, the fact that they don't even want to allow options for film grain is terrible. Even rise of the tomb raider broke down the post processing effects into separate category to give us options. I get the feeling they just don't want to bother making it render normally for pc since they just built it around the xbox one limitations and didn't plan on much more. Either because MS didn't pay them enough to port it or they just don't want to bother with the work.

so its basically never going to get fixed...

 

[High Fry Frow]

I'm examining the NVIDIA shader compiles in the game folder. Unfortunately there isn't an obvious rendering config file like in Unreal Engine.

 

[TheSeks]

http://s18.postimg.org/o4g0yaii1/grain.jpg

I'm examining the NVIDIA shader compiles in the game folder. Unfortunately there isn't an obvious rendering config file like in Unreal Engine.

Hmm... so it'd be possible to hex edit out the film grain? UWP be damned?

 

[Crimsonclaw111]

What's up with Remedy acting like passive aggressive assholes? Bizarre.

 

[High Fry Frow]

Perhaps.
I've yet to see if UWP detects a program as pirated if a file has been modified. We'll see.
I don't have the sources to these DX12 shaders, it may be something entirely beyond my skill level, but at least it gives people a place to start looking.

 

[High Fry Frow]

Goddammit.

I was able to disable MSAA, but was introduced to bizarre looking artifacts and pixel rain. Now something is corrupted and I have to re-download.

If you intend on digging through the files, manipulate the file timestamps to their defaults after editing. I believe UWP authentication checks them every time you boot up the game.
Oh..and you may have to boot up your favorite linux partition to bypass file/folder permissions. All my old tricks weren't working.

Oh Microsoft.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

I can't definitively state as an absolute truth that there are no manufacturers of embedded systems using Windows on those devices, but AFAIK windows on embedded devices hasn't been a thing since WinCE, because why would it be?

Windows on embedded devices is absolutely still a thing. Windows Embedded is an ongoing, actively supported product line. There are multiple versions of Windows Embedded 7 and Windows Embedded 8 that companies can buy (I haven't actively heard of a Windows Embedded 10 quite yet, but I'd be surprised if it doesn't exist).

I'm also relatively sure it's not free.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

If you intend on digging through the files, manipulate the file timestamps to their defaults after editing. I believe UWP authentication checks them every time you boot up the game.
Oh..and you may have to boot up your favorite linux partition to bypass file/folder permissions. All my old tricks weren't working.

Oh... that explains a lot! When I was experimenting with Tomb Raider modifying anything always caused the game to refuse to boot, but I never thought of changing the timestamps!

 

[Lazaro]

I can't definitively state as an absolute truth that there are no manufacturers of embedded systems using Windows on those devices, but AFAIK windows on embedded devices hasn't been a thing since WinCE, because why would it be?
If your business is primarily physical manufacturing, there are so many more reasons to use a free linux kernel tailored specifically to the operating specifications of your hardware than to buy a less performant generic 'does everything' solution from MS.

I believe Sega, Taito and other Japanese arcade makers use Windows Embedded for their arcade units.

http://segabits.com/blog/2013/09/04/segas-next-hatsune-miku-arcade-game-to-debut-nu-hardware/

 

[DocSeuss]

I woke up today to discover I had a code! Hooray, It's... Alan... Wake? Where's my Quantum Break code? .-.

 

[SomTervo]

Played for 25 mins today.

Looked nice on mainly Medium - better than XBO - seemed to run pretty well.

Keen to try more, esp with full blown combat going on.

For ref: MSI GTX 960, i5 4690K, 16GB RAM

All factory

 

[joeygreco1985]

Still waiting for that PC code

 

[CosmicQueso]

Still waiting for that PC code

You and me both, buddy. You and me both.

 

[Arkanius]

The game is definitely a looker but the performance at 1440p with my 980 Ti is attrocious.

Had to turn to High and set the 30 fps lock.

I can't play like this

 

[Daingurse]

You and me both, buddy. You and me both.

Haha, already beaten the damn thing and you guys are still waiting on codes, man. Hopefully they'll have some fixes for you by the time the codes get distributed lol.

The game is definitely a looker but the performance at 1440p with my 980 Ti is attrocious.

Had to turn to High and set the 30 fps lock.

I can't play like this

Shitty framepacing makes everything worse. I can handle 33.3ms pretty well, but playing through QB was irritating because of the inconsistent frame times. Worst 30fps I've felt in awhile.

The fact that I still loved the game despite the severe issues, is a testament to the core game. Just wish my experience was fucking better.

 

[Phenomenal Flea]

I woke up today to discover I had a code! Hooray, It's... Alan... Wake? Where's my Quantum Break code? .-.

I had the exact same experience this morning! "Oh boy, that must be my code, fina--oh . . . It's Alan Wake."

The way it's been handled is pretty slack. Why did they decide to take this long to send out the codes?

I don't even know what performance I can expect from a i7-6700k and GTX 970.

 

[Pathfinder]

Quantum Break pre-order keys for Windows 10 are starting to go out. I just got mine a few minutes ago.

 

[hitoshi]

I am sorry if this has been already been asked but i have not been keeping my eyes on Gaf for the past...10 months

Just received my PC key, which I redeemed but upon downloading it I have encountered a problem: it says I don't have enough space. Since I have never used the W10 Store that's not surprising: I have changed the default location of downloaded apps in the System Settings to my E drive which has 250 GB of free space, yet every time I hit the download button, the error still comes up. What am I doing wrong?

 

[metareferential]

I am sorry if this has been already been asked but i have not been keeping my eyes on Gaf for the past...10 months

Just received my PC key, which I redeemed but upon downloading it I have encountered a problem: it says I don't have enough space. Since I have never used the W10 Store that's not surprising: I have changed the default location of downloaded apps in the System Settings to my E drive which has 250 GB of free space, yet every time I hit the download button, the error still comes up. What am I doing wrong?

You need to install on c: I guess.

 

[BorntoPlay]

Got my code..

 

[hitoshi]

You need to install on c: I guess.

EDIT: Deleting the already downloaded files and restarting the download solved it! Can be installed on any partition thankfully.