This is the real issue.
I don't think they'll launch with LCD, but if they do, and all the early adopters get shit on when an OLED version comes out the next year, there's going to be a major backlash.
Don't fuck this up Sony, it has to be OLED.
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Questions/Community Feedback Regarding Project Morpheus
- Thread starter Liberty4all
- Start date
I don't think they'll launch with LCD, but if they do, and all the early adopters get shit on when an OLED version comes out the next year, there's going to be a major backlash.
Don't fuck this up Sony, it has to be OLED.
Make all PS4 games compatible with Morpheus.
When I say this, I don't mean make all future PS4 games VR experiences, or port older existing titles. Just let us play normal PS4 games like BF4 or Killzone with Morpheus like we would play then with a Sony HMZ head mounted display.
Oh and please, no LCD. Oled only.
Price is obviously a factor, specially for someone like me who lives in latin america and has to deal with abusive prices. I have confidence Sony can find the sweetspot like they did with the US PS4 price, but on the other hand the PS4 price on my country is ridiculous (and that's why I imported mine).
When I say this, I don't mean make all future PS4 games VR experiences, or port older existing titles. Just let us play normal PS4 games like BF4 or Killzone with Morpheus like we would play then with a Sony HMZ head mounted display.
Oh and please, no LCD. Oled only.
Price is obviously a factor, specially for someone like me who lives in latin america and has to deal with abusive prices. I have confidence Sony can find the sweetspot like they did with the US PS4 price, but on the other hand the PS4 price on my country is ridiculous (and that's why I imported mine).
George Claw M.D.
Member
I just want to post to counterbalance people asking for arbitrary "mainstream" price points like $200-$250. I personally don't want Sony to compromise their VR experience for cost. I want the best possible experience for the time they plan to launch. If $200 will get me the best VR tech available at launch, that would be great! But I don't mind paying more for superior tech, if it means "presence" is better achieved.
Sony said VR is a medium, not a peripheral. So I think arbitrary pricing rules like, "A peripheral can't cost more than the console," shouldn't apply. I don't want a watered down initial experience to turn people off. If the experience is compelling enough, people will want it even if they can't currently afford it. Prices will eventually come down, and people will jump in then or find ways to do so earlier. I don't want another Wii scenario where the original Wii remote set the general impression of wand motion controls. It set a low standard, and most people didn't see/understand the benefit of better tech in Wii Motion Plus or Move.
edit: I liked this quote from Palmer Luckey.
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/03/oculus-rift-dk2-eyes-on-finally-vr-without-the-ocu-latency/
Sony said VR is a medium, not a peripheral. So I think arbitrary pricing rules like, "A peripheral can't cost more than the console," shouldn't apply. I don't want a watered down initial experience to turn people off. If the experience is compelling enough, people will want it even if they can't currently afford it. Prices will eventually come down, and people will jump in then or find ways to do so earlier. I don't want another Wii scenario where the original Wii remote set the general impression of wand motion controls. It set a low standard, and most people didn't see/understand the benefit of better tech in Wii Motion Plus or Move.
edit: I liked this quote from Palmer Luckey.
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/03/oculus-rift-dk2-eyes-on-finally-vr-without-the-ocu-latency/
It could be Luckey trying to project his own wishes (that I share) onto Sony, but I hope Sony feel the same way.
Canis lupus
Member
You don't know that. Thats why we are giving our feedback here on what we want.
There seems to be a lot of mutual respect. At least that's what I got from Sony's talk. They mentioned OR a lot.
You can give all the feedback you want. They designed the camera for it, which they decided to lock out with a non-standard USB3, and Shu said they'll be selling it at cost. It's PlayStation only, and the decision had to have been made long ago.
As for Palmer's comment, makes me wonder which VR companies he thinks aren't in it for the right reasons.
Natureboy99
Banned
Here is what I would like to see:
-Fully immersive vision. I don't want to see the black borders in my peripheral vision.
-OLED. Black levels are important
-no screen door effect, so high resolution
-Wireless. 3 hour minimum. Charge cord should be long. Weight is not a big deterrent to me but heat is.
-Big screen mode for movies and non vr games. This one is very important.
-price $300 feels like the sweet spot, but if you hit every one of my preferences I could go to $400.
-Do whatever it takes to get Star Citizen. Its a Killer App.
-Push the virtual travel and virtual shopping idea. Partner with big companies like Amazon.
-Fully immersive vision. I don't want to see the black borders in my peripheral vision.
-OLED. Black levels are important
-no screen door effect, so high resolution
-Wireless. 3 hour minimum. Charge cord should be long. Weight is not a big deterrent to me but heat is.
-Big screen mode for movies and non vr games. This one is very important.
-price $300 feels like the sweet spot, but if you hit every one of my preferences I could go to $400.
-Do whatever it takes to get Star Citizen. Its a Killer App.
-Push the virtual travel and virtual shopping idea. Partner with big companies like Amazon.
lightning2k3
Member
This. I will pay up to $399 (or more) for a VR headset if it means that it works flawlessly. As people have mentioned, if you nail the FEEL of VR, people will be lining up to drop ungodly amounts of money, ala Wii units on Ebay. Eventually, you can decrease price due to cheaper components and economies of scale, but if you don't nail it right the first time by cheaping out on the components, people won't buy it even if it's 200 bucks.
Also, make sure you have content. Content is king. AO Content is even better, just because it will drive adoption.
George Claw M.D.
Member
Heh. Reading all the requests for AO content ... you just know there will be some guys/girls who will try having real physical sex with their wives/girlfriends/boyfriends/husbands while playing POV VR porn.
lightning2k3
Member
Unfortunately, (or fortunately), porn drives adoption of new technologies faster than almost any other content. I mean, if you could pay x amount of dollars to feel like you are doing it with a porn star, i bet millions of units would be sold.
As a side note, I wonder what is sadder, being the guy or the girl in that situation.
I've got some initial thoughts and suggestions here, then a few questions:
Thoughts on VR
Questions
Thanks for reading.
Thoughts on VR
- I really like the design overall.
- This has huge potential that I don't believe OR has at this point simply because of the nature and visibility of the Playstation platform, but implementation and software is key.
- You need a Shahid or Adam Boyes to promote and push VR constantly. I can't stress this enough. Clone them.
- It needs to support streaming. It may already by default, but it can't be exempt from that publicity.
- Launch software has to be compelling. OR can get away with a piece-meal build-up due to it's PC background, but I don't believe a console system can do so. Initial software needs to shine.
- Buyers need to believe such an expensive Sony 'peripheral' is going to be properly supported (see Impeccable's post above).
- Improve the basic specs as much as possible: some are desireable but optional (wireless), but OLED and an expanded FOV are pretty important (fixing the issues noted at GDC basically), while eye tracking, possibly an external camera and the ability to watch non-VR content are highly desirable (particularly eye tracking - wow) but not essential.
- It needs a breadth of experiences, but they need to be compelling. Think No Man's Sky and The Witness, not short-lived if swanky tech demos. Those are expected but throwaway. Wish fulfillment is one way to sell it to the wider public, whatever form that might take, but the initial adopter needs compelling experiences/games.
- Don't be afraid of going back to older games for good content - think Colony Wars, Jumping Flash or Destruction Derby for example. Flower would have been great. Portal 2 would also be great, if such a thing were possible. Graphical excess isn't as important as the experience. Raid that back catalogue for anything that will fit VR.
- Multiplayer VR might be crucial to mitigate the anti-social element of helmet-on-head. Games that promote a social experience through hot-
seat-visor play would be great. Anything that supports online play would also be very valuable. I don't know the technical difficulties of online VR, but the potential is huge for making VR something people want to continue to do. Imagine FFXIV in VR for example - it already has a FP mode and can be played without a keyboard. Or co-op online games - they don't have to be amazing or huge, but playing with friends is always better and allows you to share the VR experience with like-minded others.
- Price - absolutely under £350, sweetspot £199-249. It needs to be broadly comparable to OR, although slightly less advanced would be okay. On the other hand, if it looks great and has compelling software, people (initially) will pay a premium for the experience. A cheaper set that doesn't excite anyone because it's weak tech/poorly supported won't sell regardless. Direct comparisons are going to be made with OR; if there's a notable difference (negative: eg. weaker tech/positive: eg. eye tracking) then that factors in. Ultimately the experience has to be there or it won't be attractive no matter the price.
- It needs to be shown to people to build interest, including online video, public demos, tours, etc.
- You need to teach the audience about the strengths and weaknesses of VR - what works, what doesn't and why. That should help to quash confusion and unrealistic expectations, which are appearing even in this thread, which should tell you something about the need for education even among the dedicated (I include myself in those needing education).
- I see no reason why Morpheus shouldn't work with PC (ditto the DS4), but that would need PS Camera support for PC too. I think it's worth considering, even if it isn't supported with Playstation software since it makes PC owners more likely to buy one and potentially therefore a PS4 for the library.
Questions
- Will you consider improving or re-designing the Move alongside the headset? Obviously it would be wise to support legacy controllers, but even if the functionality is broadly the same, a VRMove controller with DS4 features (sticks, triggers) and a Morpheus-matching design aesthetic would look a lot more chic and desirable than 'that stick with a ball on the end from last gen'. It needs to be noticeable that the whole thing is new, although avoiding that whole Wii/WiiU confusion is also important. Education again. Dual sticks/Moves would also seem desirable.
- Will you make upgraded visors in future? A two year cycle might be wise - nobody wants to think their current set will be obsolete soon, but it's a growing field with continually advancing tech. Nobody wants to get left behind either. It's a tricky question, but one worth considering.
- Can we try to lay some ground-rules for VR as it's still in it's relative infancy? For example, is it 'a headset'? Can't we call it something else, like a visor (VisR?!) - it might sound stupid but this kind of thing can be important, especially in setting out your stall as a leader in a field. To many a headset is for voice comms. Shouldn't VR tech have a dedicated noun or two?
- Is the screen easily liftable so you can interact with the outside world easily? If not it's worth considering designing it as such, or consider an external camera (it could be really basic since you aren't going to need it much) for peace of mind for users. This kind of thing might become more important as uptake broadens.
Thanks for reading.
- No more than £250 (bundled with camera)
- Major support (scared it will be unsupported and then damage the current VR momentum)
- Wireless and a good battery life
- Responsiveness/performance over graphical showcases
- No screen door effect
- Eye tracking and good FOV
- OLED screen
- Get No Man's Sky and Star Citizen support
- Future PC support
- Demo it to the public at trade shows and stores when viable.
- Major support (scared it will be unsupported and then damage the current VR momentum)
- Wireless and a good battery life
- Responsiveness/performance over graphical showcases
- No screen door effect
- Eye tracking and good FOV
- OLED screen
- Get No Man's Sky and Star Citizen support
- Future PC support
- Demo it to the public at trade shows and stores when viable.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Even if it's cheap, it won't be worth it if the hardware sucks. Make sure the hardware is up to snuff to give an exceptionally positive user experience so that consumers realize the value in what they were paying. PS3 was five hundred ninety nine US dollars, but was it worth $599 in value? I'd say no. Make the VR experience worth the money.
Please have considerations for users with myopia so that they don't have to wear glasses or contacts with the device.
Please have considerations for users with myopia so that they don't have to wear glasses or contacts with the device.
Pound_lb003
Member
Really don't want to buy a peripheral. Really don't want this peripheral getting in the way of games I love.
Please tread carefully.
Please tread carefully.
Reallink
Member
Based on fairly substantial experience with my Rift DK1 (since day 1, unit #62 to be exact) my suggestion would be not to cheap out on the hardware. A 1080p DK1 would be a guaranteed long term failure, no doubt about it. The experience has to be of the highest quality possible to get people to change their habits and keep them investing in the ecosystem. The screen needs to be a calibrated top shelf OLED, low persistence, 1080p or 1440p, at >60Hz. It needs a physical IPD adjustment/slider. It needs to hit the lowest latency possible. In other words every potential or theorized cause of simulator sickness needs to be addressed as it will be (above all else) the ultimate determinate of VR's success or failure. Putting out a "good enough" device to hit some arbitrary price point is a sure path to failure.
Natureboy99
Banned
Or just a flight stick period.
serversurfer
Member
Excellent news!! I missed that. Do you happen to have a link?
I think Move would've fared much better if they'd done the same with it. Not that wands were ridiculously expensive, but they they certainly weren't as cheap as they could've/should've been.
vpance
Member
Needs 3rd party AAA game support, first off. And not just toned down lite gameplay VR versions of the yearly big hits mind you.
And do whatever it takes to get the tech in there that lets this happen without having to severely cut back on game visuals! I think most will agree that's going to be eye tracking.
And do whatever it takes to get the tech in there that lets this happen without having to severely cut back on game visuals! I think most will agree that's going to be eye tracking.
qa_engineer
Member
Price: $300-349.99 bundled with camera + move controller.
Specs: 1080p OLED, >90 FOV. Match or exceed the Oculus Crystal Cove. Give me one in matte black.
Functionality: Ability to watch movies, play standard 2d games, custom VR UI, and ability to view surroundings through camera.
Specs: 1080p OLED, >90 FOV. Match or exceed the Oculus Crystal Cove. Give me one in matte black.
Functionality: Ability to watch movies, play standard 2d games, custom VR UI, and ability to view surroundings through camera.
TGateKeeper
Member
Support is key for me. I have no problem paying between $299 and $899 for the device. However, without games this thing will be a paper weight. Sony will need a strong indie vr community and the device should be compatible with pc in order to open up more opportunities. there should be a wide variety of games, from simple to complex (graphic wise). There should also be different and new genre of games.
Killroyskbg
Member
Price < 399$
Both casual and core game experiences for the whole family as well as locations, home etc.
OLED!!!
Don´t cheap out! KANDO!!!
If not hurting any experience wireless.
Edit: Perhaps 2 models?
Both casual and core game experiences for the whole family as well as locations, home etc.
OLED!!!
Don´t cheap out! KANDO!!!
If not hurting any experience wireless.
Edit: Perhaps 2 models?
VindicatorZ
Member
The two biggest things for me is the Field of View and removing the gap on the bottom of the headset. I understand that some people may not want to be fully immersed in the headset and still want to be able to see their surroundings, but make this OPTIONAL, with the headset being able to be adjusted to your preferences. Don't make this a glaring difference from Oculus.
As for the 90 degree field of view, this has to be improved. Michael Abrash said that a 120 degree field of view should be possible on 2015. If this requires a higher resolution screen and increase in price, then so be it. But don't gimp the FOV from the beginning. I personally think $400.00 dollars isn't a bad price to start off (bundled with camera). The hardcore gamer and VR enthusiasts will support this from the beginning. 400 is pretty reasonable.
And since Sony is treating this as it's own medium, it needs to be marketed as such. Have a big launch for it, with big launch titles, and bundled with free to play stuff, such as VR demos, Virtual Tours, and other cool experiences to sell people on VR. Obviously have kiosks in stores such as Best Buy, Target, Walmart, etc, to blow peoples minds.
And one last hopeful thing would be to include the VR Cinema within the headset, untethered from the PS4. This will probably require some processing on board and may increase the price, but it doesn't even need to be a rendered movie theater. It can simply be a huge IMAX style screen that floats in front of you, and plays your downloaded movies on a memory stick or whatever. This will be great for the mass market. You can watch movies on an airplane, or laying in bed. The benefits of Sony's HMZ headset, but even better.
And obviously continue to improve the tracking and low persistence, but I'm sure that's the least of our worries. And keep the glowing LED Lights on the front, they look cool and are sure to attract attention.
As for the 90 degree field of view, this has to be improved. Michael Abrash said that a 120 degree field of view should be possible on 2015. If this requires a higher resolution screen and increase in price, then so be it. But don't gimp the FOV from the beginning. I personally think $400.00 dollars isn't a bad price to start off (bundled with camera). The hardcore gamer and VR enthusiasts will support this from the beginning. 400 is pretty reasonable.
And since Sony is treating this as it's own medium, it needs to be marketed as such. Have a big launch for it, with big launch titles, and bundled with free to play stuff, such as VR demos, Virtual Tours, and other cool experiences to sell people on VR. Obviously have kiosks in stores such as Best Buy, Target, Walmart, etc, to blow peoples minds.
And one last hopeful thing would be to include the VR Cinema within the headset, untethered from the PS4. This will probably require some processing on board and may increase the price, but it doesn't even need to be a rendered movie theater. It can simply be a huge IMAX style screen that floats in front of you, and plays your downloaded movies on a memory stick or whatever. This will be great for the mass market. You can watch movies on an airplane, or laying in bed. The benefits of Sony's HMZ headset, but even better.
And obviously continue to improve the tracking and low persistence, but I'm sure that's the least of our worries. And keep the glowing LED Lights on the front, they look cool and are sure to attract attention.
Liberty4all
Banned
Honestly guys you aren't going to see "every" game compatible (IMHO). As much as I wish that could happen, the bottom line is that the PS4 can't push over VR what it can do over a regular screen. That fact alone will guarantee a dual generation (regular experiences versus VR experiences).
Regardless of that fact I am confident that we will see "blow you away" VR experiences on the PS4 and this generation will be a gateway to what's to come. Honestly guys consider yourselves lucky. I"ve been waiting for this since the 80's (Born in 76). Most of you weren't around for the late 80's early 90's promise of VR. It was SO close (at least it felt that way due to marketing) only to be snatched away in the jaws of dissapointment.
Only a child of the 70's (teen of the 80's/90's) can undertand how monumental, how big this is, after what came before.
I am confident though. The guys working on this right now are the same guys that went through the aforementioned experience. It isn't hyperbole to say that the older gen of gamers (now devs) not only wants this to happen but WILL NOT REST until it happens. This is the finalization of a promise made to us in the 80's.
edit: Keep up the advice. This thread is being actively monitored by SCEA.
Regardless of that fact I am confident that we will see "blow you away" VR experiences on the PS4 and this generation will be a gateway to what's to come. Honestly guys consider yourselves lucky. I"ve been waiting for this since the 80's (Born in 76). Most of you weren't around for the late 80's early 90's promise of VR. It was SO close (at least it felt that way due to marketing) only to be snatched away in the jaws of dissapointment.
Only a child of the 70's (teen of the 80's/90's) can undertand how monumental, how big this is, after what came before.
I am confident though. The guys working on this right now are the same guys that went through the aforementioned experience. It isn't hyperbole to say that the older gen of gamers (now devs) not only wants this to happen but WILL NOT REST until it happens. This is the finalization of a promise made to us in the 80's.
edit: Keep up the advice. This thread is being actively monitored by SCEA.
Liberty4all
Banned
Do you know if they're reading the "unveiling" thread? There's A LOT of (mostly
) helpful stuff in there and its quite big.
Liberty4all
Banned
Do you know if they're reading the "unveiling" thread? There's A LOT of (mostly
They know about it but honestly I think they are just reading this one.
One of my "jobs" on NeoGAF is to point them in the direction of what's "important". There is so much on here that "important" could mean a zillion threads.
I have to narrow it down. All I can say is that this thread here is being monitored. Anything posted in this thread is being read and considered by SCEA management.
Release it in 2014. Don't perfect it into its grave ala Oculus. VR on the level of Morpheus & OR DK2 is already mindblowing.
The whole PS4 OS needs to be VR compatible! This was a *HUGE* problem for the PS Move as you could only use it for certain segments (the OS should have been pointer compatible, not just swipe). I should be able to put on my Morpheus and turn on the PS4 and not have to take it off before after turning off the system. Never-ever break the illusion. Head-motion is law etc.
You NEED an updated PS.Move controller that has sticks on it for traversal. 'Loosing a virtual arm' by only supporting the navigation controller is unacceptable.
The standalone HMD must cost $199 or less.
A VR bundle with HMD, controllers and camera for $299.
You can introduce a luxury model later on (year+) with the best screen technology and wireless tech for a premium price. Just make sure to initially release it dirt cheap and with as few configurations as possible as early as possible.
License 'Ready Player One' videogame rights and make it happen.
Virtual Cinema (possibly w/multiplayer capability) needs to be a standard OS app from day one.
Virtual Arcade hall where the arcade cabinets are streaming PS.Now content.
Make sure the wire unplugs easily so infants running around with the thing just disconnects it in contrast to bringing down the home cinema setup. Maybe consider having a LED on the wire at chest height.
Outward facing cameras, gloves and eye tracking... obviously PS5-era VR tech. Pick your battles.
Minecraft VR. Do whatever it takes to make this (virtual)reality.
The whole PS4 OS needs to be VR compatible! This was a *HUGE* problem for the PS Move as you could only use it for certain segments (the OS should have been pointer compatible, not just swipe). I should be able to put on my Morpheus and turn on the PS4 and not have to take it off before after turning off the system. Never-ever break the illusion. Head-motion is law etc.
You NEED an updated PS.Move controller that has sticks on it for traversal. 'Loosing a virtual arm' by only supporting the navigation controller is unacceptable.
The standalone HMD must cost $199 or less.
A VR bundle with HMD, controllers and camera for $299.
You can introduce a luxury model later on (year+) with the best screen technology and wireless tech for a premium price. Just make sure to initially release it dirt cheap and with as few configurations as possible as early as possible.
License 'Ready Player One' videogame rights and make it happen.
Virtual Cinema (possibly w/multiplayer capability) needs to be a standard OS app from day one.
Virtual Arcade hall where the arcade cabinets are streaming PS.Now content.
Make sure the wire unplugs easily so infants running around with the thing just disconnects it in contrast to bringing down the home cinema setup. Maybe consider having a LED on the wire at chest height.
Outward facing cameras, gloves and eye tracking... obviously PS5-era VR tech. Pick your battles.
Minecraft VR. Do whatever it takes to make this (virtual)reality.
geordiemp
Member
Totally agree - $ 399 for an excellent experience, day 1
$ 200 for an experience that is blurr and not so good - not so excited
Or give us 2 products...keep the $ conscious people happy, give enthusiasts what they want
geordiemp
Member
Agree they need to sort out the initial reference point for Move....
I don't want a cheap lower experience display - I will pay up to $ 400 for the best experience.
Please don't bundle, I already have a camera and 4 move controllers.
Oh and try to hit Xmas holiday 2014 even with demo software - remember this would be a great Xmas present and will get you the 1 to 2 million start you need to kick 3rd party games support
Liberty4all
Banned
Agree. I will pay up to 399 for a VR experience that is +excellence
With that said I own a PS4 already. I'm sure that Sony has to consider that casual crowd that needs to buy a PS4 in additon to a VR unit.
In my mind that means 599 all in (PS4 + VR Unit). Anything more is a flop. Again just my opinion and not the opinion of SCEA.They will be testing these things nation wide in malls (IMHO). I am willing to stand on it that anything more than 599 will be a flop.
That doesn't seem to make sense.
You think $400 is right for the VR, but PS4+VR needs to be $600 next year, so you're suggesting PS4 needs to be $200 next year?
That's not in the realm of possibility.
Liberty4all
Banned
I think that 599 for a PS4 + VR unit (camera/helmet/MOVE) is reasonable.
That's just my IMHO. The bottom line is that Sony is going to have to consider not only what people who already own PS4's are willing to pay for this but what the casual crowd will pay to "buy in". And make no mistake this is a casual crowd proposition ala WII from last gen.
I think it'll be $600/650ish, but I don't think the solo unit will be $400, because that seems a bizarre gulf.
The casual crowd you mention are the crowd that value technology cost the least, the people who did buy a Wii literally just for WiiSports, they were willing to throw cash at a single experience.
I think it really depends on if we see a 'killer app'. Sony's stance is that presence is the killer app, that's nice, and in a way it's true, but analog input needed Mario 64, and the WiiMote needed WiiSports. Just having cool technology isn't enough, as the Move clearly displayed (not that the Move flopped).
I don't know what Sony has cooking, I don't know if wondering around Mars, or a B-Movie horror game in the woods, or MM's Dreamcatcher, etc, is going to be that thing, but VR needs it's Mario 64.
It's a bad position, because are Sony really going to put their top teams on VR? I would say almost certainly not.
- Built-in microphone for online chat/voice recognition.
- Outward facing stereo camera to exit VR environment without having to remove the HMD (easier for user to interact with people in the room / answer the phone / pickup the controller / post on GAF etc) + Augmented Reality functionality (also: Eye of Judgment 2 please)
- Release analogue stick-equipped PS Move attachment like the STEM system.
Would pay up to $400 for the headset alone.
- Outward facing stereo camera to exit VR environment without having to remove the HMD (easier for user to interact with people in the room / answer the phone / pickup the controller / post on GAF etc) + Augmented Reality functionality (also: Eye of Judgment 2 please)
- Release analogue stick-equipped PS Move attachment like the STEM system.
Would pay up to $400 for the headset alone.
Liberty4all
Banned
Sony will go where the money is.
We learned last gen that the money can be in areas we never imagined (Wii Motion controls). We won't be left behind again. Look at the research gone into VR ... since 2010. That was 4 years ago. We are taking this seriously.
There is a reason I am here posting questions. We want to hear from you guys, the hardcore crowd. What you say matters. It affects our bottom line. Last gen Microsoft made alot of money via Kinect and Nintendo killed it with the Wii. We won't be left behind again.
Beyond the obvious technical things, like a move to a "mura-free" OLED panel, a wider FoV, no light bleed from the bottom, etc, but that stuff is all obvious, and must have already been discussed internally.
In terms of real feedback it's a question of Sony's dedication to VR as a platform (or medium as they stated at the reveal). Sony is already winning significantly, they can afford putting some of their top teams on VR exclusives that can result in that 'killer app'. There's no point butchering GoW4 or UC4 to force them to work within VR, but some of Sony's best and brightest need to be dedicated to VR exclusive games I think.
It looks like you could use a normal headset with mic instead of having it built-in.
I haven't seen the Stem system before, but it's the kind of thing I feel Sony should be thinking about with Move - make the Move with a stick and support pairs of them for certain games. You could support legacy Move/nunchuck combo for initial games (think Vita Remote play alt controls here), but start to move towards the new Move as time goes on and the experience broadens. Saying that, if eye tracking works it might be possible to go with just one stick, but I think controller design really need to be looking specifically at the VR experience, which the Move was not initially designed for. It may be however that Move is good enough to begin with and the design can evolve as VR gets bigger and more established.
The Playstation VR experience is going to require at least a PS4, VR headset and PS Camera, which is a significant investment. I don't think the casual crowd - desirable though their custom may be - are going to factor in at this point. Wii was what, $250? And a social experience. VR is probably more compelling but there are significant barriers there, cost not the least.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but OR DK2 is retailing at $350 - if Morpheus is broadly similar in price, even sold at cost I can't see it coming in at much less than $299 for an experience comparable to OR DK2 (although here's hoping). For the non-PS4 owner then that's going to be an initial cost of ~$700+. I don't see many casuals going for that unless they are so blown away by the experience that money becomes no object.
Re: my previous suggestion to raid the PS back catalogue - I really mean consider some of the experiences that Playstation fans love and that might work well with VR. Destruction Derby for example fits well with the sitting, driving, holding a wheel experience that seems to fit well with VR, but if high speed is currently an issue (as Shu seemed to experience with Drive Club), Destruction Derby was never about speed and one mode took place in a bowl, but it would still make for a driving game that didn't necessarily require skill to enjoy (welcoming for VR newbies) and gave an exciting experience with lots going on all around the player. It might be a poor example, but you can maybe see what I'm driving at there. A simple helicopter game (G-Police?!) might also suit VR.
Liberty4all
Banned
Thanks Socky. I get what you are driving at, and they will read this.
You can, yeah, and I'm sure Sony is considering the PS4 one as the default headset+mic combo. You just plug it into the HMD instead of the DS4.
But they also stressed the fact that you can use any headset, either wired or wireless. And not every headset comes with a mic.
Moreover, I think VR opens up some rather cool opportunities with regards to voice recognition applications or "voice/sound based interactions".
Plus, I don't think a built in mic would be that expensive (both in terms of money and power). So why not just add it?
CitizenCope
Member
I just want to continue to use the DS4 with all my games and nothing else.
No black bars if possible.
While I'm on a fixed budget I will find a way to pay whatever for this thing so make it awesome!! =)
No black bars if possible.
While I'm on a fixed budget I will find a way to pay whatever for this thing so make it awesome!! =)
No, but every PS4 does. It isn't great, but it's there.
Cool - like what for example?
Maybe because if you include one then it might stop you from using the one you prefer with your own headset? I don't know, it might be useful to have one built-in, but I'm of the opinion that if a feature can be added later and it's not directly related to enhancing the core VR experience, it shouldn't go in. Mics and headsets are very cheap and easy to add, so it really shouldn't be a big deal unless the mic has to be integrated, and I don't see any reason why that should be the case.
If the OP wants more feedback from GAF and this thread is likely to be prioritised over other Morpheus threads here, I'm wondering if a title change might be a good idea? 'Give feedback direct to Sony here', or something like that? EDIT: lol, I see it already has, ignore me.
That's the point. It isn't great and as far as I understand, good audio is an important component of a good VR experience. So you might very well want to use a good headset, which might very well not come with a mic.
Here are a few examples from the top of my head I think would add to the immersive experience VR is all about.
- Voice recognition could be used to select lines in Masse Effect-like dialogs while looking at a character you want to talk to.
- Whistle to call your horse in "Red Dead Redemption VR" or blow to put out a candle.
- Give orders to an AI driven companion.
I guess you could do most of this stuff with the PS Camera mic, but I think talking to a mic close to your mouth results is a more robust voice recognition. I personally hate having to talk to do stuff, but that's mostly because I have to basically shout to get heard. A close mic would allow me to talk normally/more naturally.
Well, I think it is directly related to enhancing the core VR experience. When I first tried the Rift DK1 with the Doom demo at Gamescom 2012 I found myself talking to the spider bot that was following me. I usually don't do that when I play on TV, but I was so into the world it felt natural. This got me thinking voice-based interaction might have a legitimate place in VR.
serversurfer
Member
Oh, is the stereo camera being used to improve z accuracy with Move and Morpheus? If so, is that handled by the libraries, or do devs need to calculate it themselves? What kind of system resources are devoted to tracking? Which camera settings are you guys using with Morpheus currently, and what kind of accuracy is that giving you? Would devs be free to use other settings for head tracking, or would that be a bad idea?
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