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Rapist now works to stop sexual violence in South Africa
- Thread starter Gaborn
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There are absolutely no right answers to many of the questions you are asking. In terms of the labeling and language yes I guess you could still say he is a rapist and that would be proper English in terms of forming a thought.
Why does it matter if he feels bad? Well I would say that matters a lot. it means he is feeling guilt for what he did. Recognizing he committed a terrible act. I would say that is a very good thing. Means that there are some people in this world who are able to own up for their sins. Nothing can change that it didn't happen though. How is that even a question? I also have no clue what your last question means. If you mean is there a point in time where everybody should forgive him? That is really up to each individual to decide up depending on the circumstance of his case.
Devolution
Member
This thread is gross.
He raped someone, he is a rapist. His humanitarian work doesn't erase what happened to his victim.
He raped someone, he is a rapist. His humanitarian work doesn't erase what happened to his victim.
nice response, you're smart.
thank god most of civilized society knows there isn't black/white judgement call on every crime that is committed nor is it ok to rope in adolescents. the world would be a far darker place with your logic, gross indeed.
This is the same gaf that is generally for the idea of prisoner reformation, right?
The guy did it once when he was a kid. I mean, what do you want him to do now? Not sure I see in this thread where anyone says this erases what he did.
The guy did it once when he was a kid. I mean, what do you want him to do now? Not sure I see in this thread where anyone says this erases what he did.
I don't think we've seen people label him as a rapist because they believe he hasn't changed either - this is a debate over semantics .
I should have clarified: Why does it matter that he feels badly in terms of whether we call him a rapist?
The comparison to a smoker doesn't work. A smoker is someone who smokes, present-tense. A rapist is someone who has raped. Similarly, a murderer is someone who has murdered. You don't stop being a murderer because you stopped murdering people, not matter how bad you feel about having murdered someone. And you don't stop being a rapist because you feel bad about having raped someone.
Why do you minimize rape by pretending that you stop being a rapist because you feel bad about it?
Have absolutely no interest in arguing in the debate you are trying to form. semantics, linguistics, whatever, don't care about any of that. I have already said in a previous post you're right regarding the point you are making when it's written out in the manner you have written it and when it is interpreted literally. I don't care though. It may sound like I am blowing you off but the reason is because I feel like that is superfluous and doesn't have much to do with the point I am trying to make. I am not minimizing anything. As a matter of fact I would say it is your argument that is doing the minimizing. You form an argument but use semantics and meanings of words to support it over any actual thoughts on the situation. That makes no sense...
I think many would agree that sternly saying he is still a rapist and that it is gross to say he isn't anymore is just a shroud for a very close minded way to hide two arguments. 1st being whether or not he should still be shamed. 2nd being does he deserve forgiveness. I've previously said that those are two questions that don't have a right or wrong answer. Really depends on a person's beliefs and opinion on the situation. feeling he should be forgiven does not mean you are necessarily downplaying the horrible act he committed.
I can tell you that I think this is a terrible story that doesn't quite paint the full picture of innocence being taken in a society where women are "more likely to be raped than learn to read." (quoting the cnn story there)
Instigator
Banned
Well, it is a comment implying that what the boy did 'just happens'. Cause even if the pastor tried to ease the man's guilt by saying he was a young and 'foolish' boy, that won't make a difference to the victim. Her being raped can't get reversed, regardless of the age of the pereptrator or the circumstances under which this happened. Saying 'boys will be boys' is like making an excuse for what happened and giving a reason not to apologize 'cause he was just a boy and that's what boys do'.
Yup, it is a (possibly right, possibly wrong) interpretation of what has been said, but taking in mind the whole 'not caring about rape' thing going on anyway, I don't feel a reason not to share that possibility.
storafötter
Member
I remember seeing an important documentary about abused/molested/raped south african children at this festival once. There were these women who volunteered, adopted and cared for these children that most had abandoned. They used a teddy/plush doll for the child to describe what had happened to them to make them speak.
They spoke of how there is a taboo in tradition of Zulus to not confront or expressed feelings or discuss when bad things has happened. So that many people who are victims struggle with talking to someone as their families are not interested (or because the abuse happened among the family). Maybe not related to why rapists are overwhelming there, but this thread reminded me.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1179080/
Recommended for watching. Maybe not a well made documentary (in terms of entertainment) but eye opening and interesting.
What do people mean with rape politics? sounds very obscure to me. I know the past president said some crazy stuff about HIV, but the politics encouraging rape?
They spoke of how there is a taboo in tradition of Zulus to not confront or expressed feelings or discuss when bad things has happened. So that many people who are victims struggle with talking to someone as their families are not interested (or because the abuse happened among the family). Maybe not related to why rapists are overwhelming there, but this thread reminded me.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1179080/
Recommended for watching. Maybe not a well made documentary (in terms of entertainment) but eye opening and interesting.
What do people mean with rape politics? sounds very obscure to me. I know the past president said some crazy stuff about HIV, but the politics encouraging rape?
different place, different mentality. I'm rather inclined to believe this is exactly what he said (and meant)
Vermillion
Banned
All's well that ends well.
I will never see rapists as anything less than monsters that deserve death, but it is nice he's trying to do something for the world...I guess?
It's a shame he grew up in such a culture that pressures that onto boys, but it doesn't excuse what he did. Nothing can.
What good would it do? He no longer is a threat to society, and if anything, he will do more good being un-incarcerated. I don't know who would even feel better if he went to jail right now.
childplease
Banned
Hang him. Rape should not ever be forgiven.
Death would be the easy way out. Besides, the goal of law enforcement should be rehabilitation, not a pile of bodies.
And I know I'm late, but holy shit at that pastor. smh.
Vermillion
Banned
I don't want to excuse his actions because of environment and circumstances, but it's good that he's rehabilitated. What will killing him now do?
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
It was highlighted and underlined because, as a pastor, we expect certain attitudes from him. Its a social and political position that carries expectations, thus making the statement all the more shocking.
For people that deserve rehabilitation, sure.
I don't want to excuse his actions because of environment and circumstances, but it's good that he's rehabilitated. What will killing him now do?
Satisfy peoples senseless bloodlust.
There's nothing senseless about wanting justice for what happened. The guy didn't face any sort of punishment at all.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Define "justice" and define "punishment". This man is working to repent and repay the damage he caused. Isn't that exactly what we want our criminals to do after their crimes? If punishment wasn't required to encourage him to take those courses of action then what purpose would punishment serve?
Pollux
Member
We expect certain attitudes from a pastor in a Western country. The attitudes from a pastor in South Africa are obviously going to be tainted by the culture in which he was raised. Just as a pastor from South Korea is going to have different feelings on certain issues when compared to a pastor in Texas.
It's the same as looking at people from even 50 year ago and judging them by the standard of our society in 2012.
Depends on the crime. In the case of rape, being free in society isn't acceptable.
You're making it out like he just stole her lunch money or something. He did something unforgivable. It doesn't matter what he does to make amends, he can't.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Why not?
I'm not making it out to be anything of the sort. I'm saying what practical good do we as society derive from imprisoning/punishing someone who is already trying to make amends and prevent similar incidents? Even if he can't make amends, the fact that he's trying is more positive for society then killing him or locking him up forever.
Vermillion
Banned
There's no one who doesn't deserve rehabilitation.
crazy monkey
Banned
You're still an alcoholic if you've stopped drinking.
By the way, I recommend this book (as I often do, might be my favorite book):
very good book. Did anyone made movie about it?
Edit: yes some one did.
Pollux
Member
This.
And there's a difference between the guy creeping in the bushes who can't wait to rape another women, and the guy who was raised in a culture of rape-one where rape is so common place that that the society as a whole barely considers it a crime-and is pressured into it by his peers.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
I agree. To parrot Tech, he is doing exactly what we want criminals to do. Jailing someone who is actively dedicating their lives to end the tragic amount of rapes occurring in South Africa will do absolutely nothing. Well, it won't do nothing, it will remove a voice piece for gender equality which is obviously a negative.
Because it's rape.
Completely disagree. A killer that feels no remorse for their crimes does not deserve rehabilitation. And neither does a rapist, but that's just my opinion.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
But...he does feel remorse. And he's now an activist against rape. No matter what you think about the original crime there is more good for everyone resulting from his current actions then from whatever punishment you feel he deserves.
Pollux
Member
Key words. He feels remorse.
He didn't for a very long time. He admits he only thought about himself for a very long time.
Devolution
Member
So let's get this straight you'd rather this guy be thrown away in prison when he's one of the few people who shows remorse for his crime and seeks to educate more young men to keep them from raping as well?
What the fuck is wrong with you.
I just don't think any sort of humanitarian effort can excuse what he did. He can claim to feel remorse and work to right wrongs, but what's done is done. And justice was never served for it.
Like I said, it's great that he's helping the world...I guess. But it doesn't excuse what he did.
Devolution
Member
No you'd rather he suffer in a fucking prison than educate more young men to prevent them from raping their peers like he did.
You have problems. Deal with them.
Vermillion
Banned
I think you have the wrong idea of what justice is.
Don't tell me what I think unless you want other people telling you what you think.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Which is why I asked you to define justice. To me and those who agree with me justice is action taken to rehabilitate criminals or remove those who are too dangerous from the public. This man clearly isn't the latter, and there's no need for the former, so what does justice mean to you?
Devolution
Member
What do you think then? What the fuck is there to gain from throwing him in prison at this point other than some stupid ass smug satisfaction from you?
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