Pokemaniac
Member
I think the rushing has more to do with the anniversary than anything. Some of the stuff they've said suggests some sort of anniversary tie-in.
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Reddit [verified] User shares NX info: x86 Architecture, Second screen support etc.
- Thread starter DaSorcerer7
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I think the rushing has more to do with the anniversary than anything. Some of the stuff they've said suggests some sort of anniversary tie-in.
I really do hope that things like Federation Force, Animal Crossing Amiibo Party, etc are simply fillers instead of the actual direction they're going in. This E3 is going to be a wild ride for Nintendo any which way they go.
You know there's more to a consoles price than BoM, right? There's R&D, markup, licensing fees (Dolby, etc) royalties to the chip makers, manufacturing, transportation, packaging, etc. What you want from Nintendo would likely be a $499 box and Nintendo can't get away with charging that after the Wii U and their current place in the market.
Certain engine designs favor cpus, we know this from benchmarks. If NX isn't up to a certain spec no gpu, ram, or overall architecture design is going to work magic for games that need the grunt in that area. Devs who wouldn't spend time on WiiU 360/PS3 are going to do the same now on NX in similar situation, why?
Right, but if you're telling us that it's better than the PS4/XB1 then it won't need magic in the first place, it'll essentially be marginally better than the standard- PS4/XB1 spec. Anyone essentially putting their games on either system would need to make it work on a platform with a weaker CPU than Nintendo's.
gingerbeardman
Member
Nintendo could do backwards compatibility the way Apple did with OS X (Rosetta) and Microsoft have with Xbox on Xbox One.
Google "Transitive"
Since you're looking for something practical they can do the ARM cpu chips at 2.0GHZ or I3 that plays most current multiplatforms not an I7 though older ones are still technically better. PS4 is struggling against I3/I5 stock or oc, PS4k won't change that nor NX. So why would devs who really want more give a shit?
I never said what I wanted or would accept, I just said what they are doing don't interest 3rd parties they really want to court, change that argument all you like that's the crux of my point, Reality will prove me out I have no problem months and weeks out from seeing something coming making a prediction.
I'd say that wasn't the only factor that made the deluxe sell more.
I mean what I'm about to say is only one thing and it may seem like a small thing to get hung over about but I think storage may have been one of those things to do with it selling more. I know you can attach an external drive but I think with some people, they don't want buy and wire up another device. So compared to an 8GB vs 32GB offering, they'll go with the bigger one.
And wasn't the black console color limited to only deluxe as well?
I think the point he's making is that none of these systems are hitting the specs you're suggesting, and the NX is potentially in between the baseline- the PS4/XB1 and the iterative console the PS4K. In this scenario, what makes the NX inadequate?
Not to get off subject too far, but NX console needs to at least have 500GB of storage, the most dissappointing aspect of the Wii U was its horribly small storage, even on the deluxe model.
DaSorcerer7
Member
He also said its noticeably better, that's good enough for me. lol
Yeah, we definitely need better storage and storage options.
But even if it's not, it'd be working within the same bracket as the industry standard for consoles the PS4/XB1- which is why I don't get why hardware would be a barrier to development.
I liked being able to use a USB harddrive, though not being able to partition it wasn't great.
Gotdatmoney
Member
Again, point was will they want to bother? Not about potential revenue. A system the same power as PS4/X1 is not suddenly going to entice tons of devs to spend extra effort on the version that is going to for sure sell the least units.
I dont think Nintendo gets ignorwd because they are Nintendo. I think they get ignored because they dont entice the industry to put shit on their boxes. If they put out a box considerably above PS4/X1 that may be a plus on their end. But just matching them? The demographics are still very different.
But of the NX is at least good enough to match current gen and current gen doesnt defer to PS4.5 X1.5 then I totally see them at least getting EA sports games, Cod, big multiplatts like star wars etc.
The other systems have a market though, nintendo doesn't.
USB 3.0 would be enough for me.
Lilalaunebaer
Member
1TB.
Or it better allow me to switch it for a bigger myself. Then i´ll just put the small one in my PC as an extra drive.
And I think that's fair, I just don't think the hardware- based on what you're giving us is a logical barrier to development. At this point it's a question of pricing, marketing, positioning, branding, and cooperative partnerships with third parties for pushing bundled units.
If it's on par with PS4 and gets FFVIIR and FFXVI, I would probably sell the PS4, that I'll only buy for FFXV later this year, right after finishing FFXV and put the money towards a NX for Zelda U. If I could have Zelda and mainline FF on the same console, I'd be set for life.
USB storage is actually good and should remain imo. But also having a better internal storage would be nice too. Partitions would be cool as well, and increasing the USB to 3.0.
Dude, Intel and Nvidia have already said there's no money to be made being the chip providers of consoles. They burnt those bridges. You're never getting an i5 or i3 in a console. And with your argument, that there's no point im developing for it if it's not powerful since the Ps4 and Xbox are struggling to match PC's, then why don't devs only develop for PC's? Because they make games for where the market is, and there is more console players than PC players. Devs will put games on the NX if it's selling Xbox One or PS4 levels monthly.
James Scott
Banned
They've sold over 60million units this gen despite serious mess up. I don't think it's that dire.
(The Wii u was a massive fuck up, but I don't think they don't have an audience anymore, is what I'm saying)
I think you're right.
I don't understand LCGeek posts. Why do you even expect the NX to sell for 350-399$? Nintendo has been pretty clear about wanting a somewhat cheap console, and that the Wii U's price at D1 was too high (they were also losing money on it, not gonna happen again). Now are you honestly telling us that the PS4+ console you seem to be describing would be THAT bad for 299$ tops? Especially when we "know" that the PS4K could have a 3.5tflops GPU, a better CPU and a 4K Blu Ray, and sell for 499? Are we expecting Nintendo to sell a console for 400-500$ with high end PCs specs? Look around, because many people were thinking about a 1tflop console or so, maybe even LESS than that, which seems something more in line with your criticism. Except you're describing a very different scenario at the same time.
I understand and share your vision and criticism about their online infrastructures, services and other stuff, and i really, really hope that they'll step up their game with the NX because their current state is a fucking joke, but i really don't understand why something like the hardware you're describing, at the price point that it's more likely, would be as bad as you implied in your posts.
If the console was really going to be 400$, with slightly better than PS4/X1, i can see why you would criticize it. I would tell them to fuck off too. But there's no way in hell that it will launch at that price, there's nothing, not even a single rumor by an "anonymous source" on pastebin that implies that, while on the other hand we have several, official statement that imply exactly the opposite. With those specs and a price point of 299$, perceived value would be good. Not incredible, not outstanding, but good, and it wasn't the case with the Wii U's 349$. So that kind of criticism would be completely off.
Then again, i can see why you and other people would want something like a ~4.5tflops, 8 Zen cores, 8GB (or more) GDDR5X console for 499$ or around that, but it's unrealistic and doesn't really make sense for Nintendo to release something like that. A PS4+ is fine, especially if the NX will see upgrades more often, like (again) they implied. Doesn't matter if the PS4K will be more powerful than that, because the price will be very different too.
I understand and share your vision and criticism about their online infrastructures, services and other stuff, and i really, really hope that they'll step up their game with the NX because their current state is a fucking joke, but i really don't understand why something like the hardware you're describing, at the price point that it's more likely, would be as bad as you implied in your posts.
If the console was really going to be 400$, with slightly better than PS4/X1, i can see why you would criticize it. I would tell them to fuck off too. But there's no way in hell that it will launch at that price, there's nothing, not even a single rumor by an "anonymous source" on pastebin that implies that, while on the other hand we have several, official statement that imply exactly the opposite. With those specs and a price point of 299$, perceived value would be good. Not incredible, not outstanding, but good, and it wasn't the case with the Wii U's 349$. So that kind of criticism would be completely off.
Then again, i can see why you and other people would want something like a ~4.5tflops, 8 Zen cores, 8GB (or more) GDDR5X console for 499$ or around that, but it's unrealistic and doesn't really make sense for Nintendo to release something like that. A PS4+ is fine, especially if the NX will see upgrades more often, like (again) they implied. Doesn't matter if the PS4K will be more powerful than that, because the price will be very different too.
Having a better CPU than PS4 and worse GPU would be beyond stupid. I find it hard to believe that something like this would happen.
The SDK is going to be the problem like with WiiU. Power is there wielding and how long it takes to wield is the issue. Nintendo getting developers to want to wield is the biggest of them all.
IIRC, the GPU was something DICE at least didn't have as much of a problem with as much as the CPU.
Okay, and that sounds like a problem... but that ultimately sounds like a software issue?
I'm not sure if this is really true. The basic high-level architecture of GCN hasn't really changed since PS4 and XBO, and is unlikely to change all that much with Polaris. In theory if they made big changes to the shader ISA then you could have compatibility issues with existing games, but I would imagine that Polaris's ISA is a superset of prior GCN generations if there are any changes.
The big issue for Polaris for any console released this year is that 14nm yields are unlikely to be good enough to make a console SoC financially viable. It would be plausible for anything released mid-late next year, though. In theory the same is true for Zen, but from Nintendo's point of view I would imagine A72's would still be a better option in terms of the performance offered in the die area and thermal space available for a console CPU (i.e. they're not going to have 150mm² and 90W to play with).
Ironically I'd actually put more money on Nintendo using Polaris in the handheld than in the home console. We're going to see mid-range mobile SoC's like the Snapdragon 625 on 14nm late this year, and a similar size die could probably accommodate 8 A53's and 4 Polaris CUs. It would likely be more expensive than Nintendo are used to for their handheld SoCs, but a relatively powerful handheld that shares a very similar GPU architecture to the home console could save them quite a bit in development costs in the long run, so might be the kind of decision they'd make if they're serious about easy cross-development between home console and handheld.
Shikamaru Ninja
任天å ã® å¿è
Nintendo has been clear about wanting a cheap console? That's news to me. The market has proven that they want value, not a cheap box that plays games. It's up to Nintendo to find a way to deliver value and performance at a reasonable price. The Wii U bombed because it was the Wii U. It was a product that was never going to find a sustainable market.
I was sure I was missing something. Maybe you magically intuited it! Keep developing those powers, we need more info about NX!Very true. I think the gimmick has to be very well-considered in terms of whether third parties are willing to make exclusives or ports for it. We saw with Wii though that they were willing to make exclusives to get themselves of a slice of Wii's success. Zack & Wiki, Elebits, etc. etc. I'd be pleased as punch if we were to get third party games like that again.
That's a different argument. It's not Nintendo's hardware power level that'll hold back developers from developing on the NX, it'll me if the market is there to buy their games. There are some third party games that sell better on Nintendo platforms like Sonic, Rayman, Just Dance, etc. And some that do very respectable numbers compared to the other platforms like Skylanders, Lego, etc.
It's the chicken and egg scenario. Developers want to wait to see how big the market is before they put their games on a Nintendo platform, while gamers won't buy a Nintendo platform until they see the games they want announced for that platform.
Ubisoft, Warner Bros. Sega, Namco, Capcom and Activision were the eggs for the Wii U, they put all their major franchises that could run on the Wii U there for the first few years. If they didn't sell, st least they tried and made good ports.
EA, 2k, Square and most others didn't put out shit or pulled an EA and put 5 year old enhanced ports (and ME3 the same week ME Trilogy launched for PS3/360 lol) and then went "there's no market, sorry guys".
But when the Wii was selling like hot cakes, even EA was making lesser versions and spinoffs of their IP's to get some of the action.
If the NX is able to get ports of current games, support unreal 4, unity, frostbite 3, anvil next, etc and sells well out of the gate, developers will put their games on it, even if those versions sell the least because that's still a return on investment.
ArgentPixel
Banned
I am cautiously optimistic that "support for a second screen" means that it will be optional, rather than company suicide.
Why do you think devs would come running to support the NX if they made a true powerhouse console? 3rd parties aren't going to make exclusives unless they get $$ at this point. Nintendo's internal teams aren't in a position to really push the graphical envelope on consoles. Without the killer exclusive games people aren't going to buy it over a PS4/XB1 at the price they'd have to charge.
I've always thought the sweet spot would be something that could easily get PS4 ports and had modestly better specs than the PS4 all-around. That's the best value point and where you can start rebuilding your console market share. You can the third parties back alongside Nintendo's unified 1st party output.
Curious if you know anything of the SDK or no?
I was under the impression that the jump in GCN was going to bring in some disparities but I have no reason to doubt your knowledge vs what I have basically learned on my own via reading. My experience is clearly limited to textbooks, haha.
This time, the gimmick will be there is no gimmick 😮
Eh but honestly I think the "gimmick" will be how they will integrate cloud processing or some unobtrusive shit like that, I'm hoping at least.
That local cloud processing patent they filed sounds pretty interesting. Ie. Linking up your handheld for a more powerful home console
Yeah, and that's because the GPU was better than what PS360 (two consoles that got Frostbite games) had, while the CPU was very different and weaker at some tasks. But the biggest reason why the Wii U never got those FB ports is because the audience wasn't there, and the console bombed.
Miyamoto said that the Wii U's price was too high and that they wanted to avoid something like that with their next console. Like i said multiple times (including the post you quoted with different words, read all of it), the Wii U having shitty perceived value was one of the biggest reasons (if not the biggest one) why it bombed, but a 299$ NX with PS4+ specs would obviously be very different. Now i don't know if that power at that price classifies as "cheap box that plays games" rather than "good value", but it definitely doesn't sound like that to me.
Actually I don't think most devs will come if nintendo had power, I've articulated this angle in nintendo tech threads when they had better tech then their competitors. A good sdk is a start. Nintendo teams are easily of the top 5 best pushers on their consoles of any generation you would be a fool to historically argue that.
They don't need killer games but them ports, publishers/devs are half assing shit on pc and consoles, now there is another console in the mix. History shows non leading console get treated badly. You're crowd is assuming you will get any I'm not for the most part I smell it already.
I think most actually expect the first few years of NX and Nintendo's general rebranding to be on their shoulders to carry and build a market. They will strike deals with third parties for games, paying for development as they do, but outside of token support I nor many should be expecting much of anything until Nintendo can prove that it has a viable market.
In general, I think most of use are (rightfully) pessimistic on third party western support. If Nintendo is going to be courting anyone off the bat that they have a feasible chance of actually convincing, it will be Japanese developers.
The real question from me is what the state of the SDK was, because as is know the WiiU's was a fucking tire fire.
Both the CPU and RAM were shithouse hence the Frostbite tests not being as performant as DICE wanted. Not to mention the development tools for the PS3 and 360 were mature at that point.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
If the NX is stronger than PS4 so many people will go buy the PS4K in droves.. no way they let Nintendo have the upper hand on them I dont believe this rumor
I don't think that's how it works.
Don't worry, there will be fanboy YouTube videos and Misterxmedia telling people of the glorious upgrades and how they've now become super computers with all that extra CPU speed.
Whatchu talking about Willis?
Also I own a ps4 and like hell I'm getting the PS4k. I'm alot more likely to get the NX.
AcademicSaucer
Member
fanboys Anarki, they are everywhere. They think corporations are their friends.
No dev ever complained about the Wii U's RAM or bandwidth, while many trashed the CPU, so it really wasn't a problem despite what some people think.
Anyway, the GPU will always be the main focus in a modern console or even PC. As long as the CPU isn't a bottleneck, it's fine. So there's really no point in having a "considerably" better CPU than the PS4 and a worse GPU than that (or even worse than what the X1 has), unless Nintendo thinks that the CPU in the current gen consoles is a huge bottleneck that they don't want, while at the same time they're fine with that level of GPU power.
Um no. Already have a ps4. And if I want something stronger I have my pc. I'm getting nx regardless. If it was a ps5. That would be a diff story
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
It's all meaningless. Anything modern gaming device can handle ports to other gaming devices. It just depends on how much legwork needs to be done.
Well, we don't know anything about the GPU or RAM right now, but so far the CPU is much better than the PS4 and Xbox One. I believe they'll aim for parity.
I'm expecting some kind of changes to happen. They're rebranding back to red and white instead of the grey and white they've had since the start of the Wii and DS era. I might be too optimistic but I do expect some kind of change because rebranding usually implies a shift in their focus.
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