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Resident Evil 2 Remake Confirmed [WE DO IT!]
- Thread starter Broken Joystick
- Start date
ElfArmy177
Member
Wonder how far into development they get before they cancel it.... 
ArchedThunder
Banned
With the graphical fidelity that can be achieved on PS4 and Xbox One (especially for a game that will have fixed camera angles) there really isn't much of a point in using prerendered backgrounds. And as the posters above me point out, there are a ton of benefits to going full real time.
XxSlasherMcGirkxX
Member
I fear that this is the version they will use because they have used it three times now. Darkside Chronicles, OP Raccoon City and Rev2. The original costume looked so fucking good in Degeneration.
artsi
Member
Also lighting, of course you can do some simple shadow casting with pre-rendered backgrounds like in REmake, but there are still limits. We're in the era of PBR, global illumination etc. and I consider the graphics these days good enough to forget pre-rendering.
It's just so much more flexible overall.
encephalon
Member
First of all, let's not pretend that highly atmospheric games have not been done in 3D, even in the PS2 era. Games like Silent Hill, Fatal Frame/Project Zero, and Siren definitely benefited from real time environments. If you're concerned about graphics, look no further than Silent Hill 3, which boasts character models that impress to this day.
The truth is that, as well as the Resident Evil series has pulled it off, the completely static camera is restrictive. The game can benefit from a camera that shifts and moves around in real time. It could benefit from simply being able to travel down a long hallway or city street. It gives the developers some freedom in how locations and scenarios can be designed. I'm reminded of File 2, which had a sequence where a tyrant chased you down city streets (which looked pretty good for a ps2 online game). It just wouldn't have been possible with static camera. For RE2, this could mean better designed boss fights now that the camera can better follow to player. Think about the fight where you're waiting for the elevator. And if Capcom is looking to expand areas, which they should be, it should give them more freedom to do so.
I don't think anyone would go that far. REmake demonstrated that real-time environments on current hardware can blend in pretty well with Gamecube-level prerendered backdrops. It would be very easy for the PS4/One to render a game in realtime that would look better than REmake does. I'd be perfectly fine with it.
But prerendered backdrops on modern hardware could look insanely good. It would be like maxing a PC game out with the best settings- 4k, high quality hbao+, ultra textures with16xAF, 8xSSAA, and ultra high poly models, but without any performance hit. Everyone could play the game with visuals beyond the most extreme PC settings. The only downside is that pre-rendered backdrops aren't future-proof, as REmake's HD remaster demonstrated. But, as long as the original assets are retained, like with Zero, the backdrops can easily be enhanced and re-rendered.
The main reason this is a big deal is that prerendered backdrops reflect a lot of care and attention to how each screen looks. You can be sure that Capcom tweaked everything to perfection before rendering each screen. With realtime visuals, things may be left a little bit rougher since Capcom doesn't have to think as much about how to lock in each scene.
supernormal
Member
I don't know how the argument for realtime (fixed camera angles) exist, when anything they can come up with, even with the power of a Quad Titan X setup, could just replicated and surpassed without the performance hit with the pre-rendered approach. Then they have the whole graphics budget to basically make higher quality effects that they can fake into the environment.
All of these things that full real time games stuggle with (like real time reflections, high res shadows), were done with ease in REmake and RE0 because of the budget they saved from the backgrounds. Imagine how those effects would look with today's tech along with super high poly characters that can have soft body physics for clothing and tress fx for hair etc.
RSB
Banned
Deal breaker? No. It's been way too long since the last classic RE for that to be a deal breaker. But yeah, I'd be less excited about it, that's for sure.
Pre-rendered >>>>>>>> Real-time
badcrumble
Member
I want the ability to leave bullet holes in walls (for example) and that isn't possible with pre rendered. Even though it's possible in, like, Half-Life 1.
supernormal
Member
This isn't true. REmake had real time shadows casted over the geometry of the pre-rendered backgrounds, along with real time reflections on wet surfaces and windows. Why wouldn't they be able to allow bullet hole decals or even blood splatter with the same technique?
Even assuming that it's true that they could do these incredible prerendered backgrounds that would blow realtime visuals out of the water, they're also jarringly static compared with what we're used to from more modern games (the potential for the opening scenes in RE2, in particular, with properly moving realtime visuals has me salivating), and the character models still don't sit properly in the environment. They also imposed relatively strong conditions on character interactions with the environment.
And if it's realtime with fixed camera angles there'll still be a level of care and attention put on the backgrounds. One advantage is that with fixed camera angles, they can save resources (e.g. on the backsides of objects) that will still mean it would look better than a game with a movable camera.
encephalon
Member
They'll probably want the freedom to move the camera around for in game cutscenes.
badcrumble
Member
Decal-based stuff isn't how REMake did it.
REMake used some REALLY COOL techniques to achieve shadowing - basically, there were three simultaneous prerendered versions of a scene (deep shadow, medium shadow, no shadow) and it'd dynamically animate transitions between those three versions to create shadows. It's really really neat! But it wouldn't really be able to handle physics or even decals because it's extremely clever and great-looking sleight of hand to achieve some very specific results, not a generalizable approach like real-time.
I remember watching the tech videos for REMake and it's some really cool shit, but it still fundamentally lacks the versatility of real-time environments.
Wonder how far into development they get before they cancel it....
I dont think that will happen lol
The vest still looked a little bit too garish and plastic there and in the RE2 renders - (but considering when they were made, it's understandable) translating the more worn, faded texture of the original ingame model might be a better way to update the design, similar to the more faithful revisions made to Leon's RPD costume in RE4 and later games. Either way, I do agree that the RE2 design is better than the modern one in concept - the Darkside Chronicles one completely loses the palette and colour blocking which gave the original its distinctiveness.
Hopefully, the reuse of that design was just due to ease of asset recycling, and this game will warrant a new model...
That's all true, but I don't know what kind of interaction people are demanding from this game that would require realtime environments. RE3 is the game that introduced exploding barrels and other interactive parts to the environments. Seeing a bullethole in the wall when you miss is cool, but seeing much better looking environments all the time is cooler.
I'd be happy either way, and if they do realtime they could possibly do over the shoulder and fixed camera in a way that might satisfy both camps. But as someone who would only ever play it with a fixed camera, there's no need for anything but prerendered backdrops.
I'm really worried they're going to screw this up.
I'm glad the producer of the HD REmaster is on it, since he's probably got a unique vision for what it could / should be. But then I think of what Resident Evil has become since then, and the terrible reimagining of classic storylines as well.
It's going to be a tough rope to walk for sure to make something both worthy of the original, and that plays on our expectations and memory just as REmake did.
And for the love of God, keep it prerendered and save the assets for a 4k release Capcom.
I'm glad the producer of the HD REmaster is on it, since he's probably got a unique vision for what it could / should be. But then I think of what Resident Evil has become since then, and the terrible reimagining of classic storylines as well.
It's going to be a tough rope to walk for sure to make something both worthy of the original, and that plays on our expectations and memory just as REmake did.
And for the love of God, keep it prerendered and save the assets for a 4k release Capcom.
This begs the question, any are you leaving slugs in walls instead of zombies, or rather bioweapon bosses?
This is survival horror, not Rambo!
How About No
Member
I don't think there's any reason for them to go with prerendered honestly.
Aside from the aforementioned lack of interactivity, every bit of iteration on the scenery means hours of rendering time for every camera shot. Using real-time geometry and lighting (or even baked lighting) would speed up the work flow, and you don't have to wait to see the changed you made.
Well...not sure if it's hours with a renderfarm in this day and age, but it's still gonna be pretty time-consuming.
Aside from the aforementioned lack of interactivity, every bit of iteration on the scenery means hours of rendering time for every camera shot. Using real-time geometry and lighting (or even baked lighting) would speed up the work flow, and you don't have to wait to see the changed you made.
Well...not sure if it's hours with a renderfarm in this day and age, but it's still gonna be pretty time-consuming.
I don't even like the old Resident Evil games, but even I find all this dismissal of the "limited, static pre-rendered backgrounds" ridiculous.
Did you know that if you take several of these "static backgrounds" and show them in quick succession, you can get what's known as a "moving picture", or "movie", for short. It sounds crazy, but it's true! Now I know what you must be thinking: "Even if this is possible, it must be way off!", but game developers are already experimenting with ways to bring it home to your living room sooner than you'd think. Here's some footage of an upcoming game that makes use of this amazing new technology:
https://youtu.be/fhfN7zilovw
Wow, I can't wait!
Did you know that if you take several of these "static backgrounds" and show them in quick succession, you can get what's known as a "moving picture", or "movie", for short. It sounds crazy, but it's true! Now I know what you must be thinking: "Even if this is possible, it must be way off!", but game developers are already experimenting with ways to bring it home to your living room sooner than you'd think. Here's some footage of an upcoming game that makes use of this amazing new technology:
https://youtu.be/fhfN7zilovw
Wow, I can't wait!
RSB
Banned
Wouldn't using pre-rendered backgrounds make the optimization process much faster, thus reducing development time?
I can't help thinking that it'd be less jarring for Mr X to bust through real time walls.
I also think real time would be nice, just for them to have a workable 3D version of all these environment to reuse in other games - imagine a RPD stage in RE7 Mercenaries.
But realistically both approaches have their pros and cons. The idea of hyper-detailed backgrounds which look superior to what we currently have on existing hardware is very appealing. I'm pretty excited to see what approach they take.
I also think real time would be nice, just for them to have a workable 3D version of all these environment to reuse in other games - imagine a RPD stage in RE7 Mercenaries.
But realistically both approaches have their pros and cons. The idea of hyper-detailed backgrounds which look superior to what we currently have on existing hardware is very appealing. I'm pretty excited to see what approach they take.
AuthenticM
Member
There's no way they can take this out of the game without a bomb exploding at Capcom headquarters.
what in the fuck are you talking about?
Man, dont take that so serious
AuthenticM
Member
LOL
He was just joking dude.
Why couldn't you just swap one background for another and use a bunch of gibs and particle effects? You could even leave 3D gibs on the ground.
I don't see why set piece destruction is limited to 3D rendering. Space for moving prerendered backgrounds or multiple versions is no longer an issue, and if done well it shouldn't be any more jaring. It might even work better since they have more resources to dig into to make it look better.
Calm down there, cupcake.
The prerendered backgrounds in Resident Evil hold up today. I remember being absolutely stunned when playing it on the Gamecube, and thought it was the best graphics at the time for consoles. I had no idea it was not real time. You cannot say the same about many games using real time techniques.
Let the developers do what looks better and if it's prerendered, let it.
Let the developers do what looks better and if it's prerendered, let it.
supernormal
Member
Yeah it's not like RE ever used this technique to great effect.
https://youtu.be/DvYiPK5yWk0?t=933
https://youtu.be/DvYiPK5yWk0?t=1106
Scenes like this are still unparalleled today aside from things like resolution.
Yeah they look stunning.
Nicholsonnodding.gif
They had an excuse to exclude her from Revelations 2 - they wanted Claire to sound more mature. This time, they have no excuses; and since Alyson Court voiced Claire in every single RE game with that character (even in Operation Raccoon City) it seems she's on good terms with Capcom and I think there's a pretty high chance that she will voice Claire once again.
KingHenrik30
Member
Concur with this. I thought the same exact thing.
The pre-rendered argument I guess depends on how far full-blown CGI graphics have come in 2015. They reason so many PS1 games used them was because real time graphics couldn't really convey those scenes. Well, technically games like Dino Crisis, Silent Hill 1, and Metal Gear Solid 1 showed that they could, but not as well by some people's standards. You also probably couldn't have gotten the backgrounds you saw in REmake and RE0 with real-time Gamecube graphics. There's also the question of how expensive pre-rendered is compared to real-time.
An RE2 with fixed camera angles but real time graphics of the fidelity of Deep Down or even Until Dawn would indeed look like a clear leap above even RE6 and still allow for some degree of freedom in how the designers direct the camera movement. But you still can't help but imagine the prospect of pre-rendered 2015/2016 backgrounds that look like the movie Avatar. Or maybe Capcom could get just "adequate-looking" pre-rendered backgrounds with a lower development budget. Examples of what the latter might look like include recent games like Stasis or Pillars of Eternity.
Things like this just convince me that an RE2 in an RE4-syle perspective would just need to be totally redesigned. The second half of the video where it moves around in first person makes the mansion look a lot smaller than it feels when playing RE1. The decreased sense of scale hurts the atmosphere in my opinion. A remake or new game that wanted to maintain the same atmosphere but with a 3D camera in my opinion would have to have redesigned, larger environments.
An RE2 with fixed camera angles but real time graphics of the fidelity of Deep Down or even Until Dawn would indeed look like a clear leap above even RE6 and still allow for some degree of freedom in how the designers direct the camera movement. But you still can't help but imagine the prospect of pre-rendered 2015/2016 backgrounds that look like the movie Avatar. Or maybe Capcom could get just "adequate-looking" pre-rendered backgrounds with a lower development budget. Examples of what the latter might look like include recent games like Stasis or Pillars of Eternity.
Things like this just convince me that an RE2 in an RE4-syle perspective would just need to be totally redesigned. The second half of the video where it moves around in first person makes the mansion look a lot smaller than it feels when playing RE1. The decreased sense of scale hurts the atmosphere in my opinion. A remake or new game that wanted to maintain the same atmosphere but with a 3D camera in my opinion would have to have redesigned, larger environments.
Why? Just because it looks smaller? Throw away the notion that you have to be able to run real fast, get lots of ammo, and shoot zombies in the kneecap and suplex them. Then take a look at Resident Evil Revelations and the RE5 mansion DLC. Over the shoulder doesn't have to move fast, and feature overpowering techniques. If ammo is scarce, and zombies don't drop like flies and are tough to avoid, the game is still creepy and difficult, and a lot of the scares still work.
The new optional control scheme in REmake HD hurts the design of the game just as much as over the shoulder. It obliterates all enemy design by letting you change directions and run instantly, rather than requiring a slower tank turn or even quick turn. At least over the shoulder didn't ruin that, and until RE6 didn't even let you sidestep effectively.
Take away sidestep and force players to use quick turn, scarce ammo, powerful enemies, and redesign some of the scares for the change in perspective, and I think it could be a damn fine game. Throw in Revelations 1's difficult dodge mechanic as well (dodge, not counter).
That's just one small reason. I think the whole game would have to be rebalanced really. It's like how Twin Snakes ended up being unbalanced because you had MGS2 mechanics and AI running around in MGS1's level design.
Dusk Golem
A 21st Century Rockefeller
The people who made the Resident Evil 2 Reborn fan game who went to go meet with Capcom (Invader Games) have been posting on their group's Facebook page a few photos without explanation over the last few days, they're probably not RE2 related but they apparently went to go meet them. I thought it was relevant enough to at least post them here, but they very likely have no sort of RE2 connection, but posting this so soon after their apparent meeting and being all mysterious about it certainly will raise a few questions.
If they started a new project, they really picked themselves up fast after Reborn being cancelled, but who knows, might be related to something or another with RE2, either Reborn or elsewise. -shrugs-
Work in progress... stay tuned!
Working night...
Next stop might be the last...
If they started a new project, they really picked themselves up fast after Reborn being cancelled, but who knows, might be related to something or another with RE2, either Reborn or elsewise. -shrugs-